General chit-chat and information (part 2)

[Sigrid]

sure it helps :)
I live in Norway, so I don't expect to find a lot of the British classics, but maybe something by Hamsun :D
that would be so extremely fun! ^^
but I'll be on the lookout for those kind of shops you mentioned the next time I go to london ;)

[Bill]

Greetins, all. I'm currently writing a novella that takes place in Victorian London. Can anyone recommend any good books about Victorian life?

[Sigrid]

I would say Dickens, being a big fan of him :)
and if you want to read newer fiction about crimes in Victorian London, the Sally Lockhart series by Philip Pullman is really good, and incredibly exciting ;)

[The Book Whisperer (aka Boof)]

FYI - today is the last day to nominate for our June group read. Head on over the the Nominations folder if you want to add another book.

[Darcy]

I have a question for some of our UK experts . . . I just found out I'll be spending five months (August-December) in Cambridge this year! Woo hoo! I haven't spent much time in the UK, so I'm wondering what you all would recommend as great places to visit. They can be bookish or not . . . whatever you think shouldn't be missed, essentially.

Thoughts? People always mention Stonehenge, of course, but I hear it is "just a henge." ;)

[Sigrid]

Lucky you! :)
You should go to the market in Cambridge :) It's fun! There's this guy there that sells really pretty bracelets on sunday ^^

For me, musicals is an absolute must! whenever I'm in London. if you want to see some musicals, I recommend "The Phantom of the Opera" or "Billy Elliot" or some of the other classics. It's amazing.
There are of course a lot of other fun stuff you should do in Oxford too ;)

My favourite english town so far is Oxford. It's really sweet :)
ohh, and there is this park outside of Oxford with lots of lots of bluebells. it's basically a sea of blue flowers and it's so incredibly beautiful!

I don't know much about literary places though.. sorry

[Paula]

Darcy - you lucky thing!! I have no clue about Cambridge, but am very excited for your trip! Hope you keep us posted when you are over there, so we can live vicariously through you :)

[Gabriele]

Darcy, how exciting! If you can travel up to Bronte Country or down to Hardy's "Wessex", I don't think you'll be disappointed. Literary pilgrimages are such fun!

[The Book Whisperer (aka Boof)]

Oooooh, Darcy, how exciting! You must, must , must go to York - it is the most fabulous place, steeped in history and so much to do and see there. York is about an hour from Haworth (Bronte Parsonage and village) which I insist that you go to! I live in Yorkshire (about 45 mins from both) and I'd love to meet up with you if you do come up!

Other places worth a visit are Oxford and Bath. Both are gorgeous! How exciting!

[Darcy]

Sigrid wrote: "Lucky you! :)
You should go to the market in Cambridge :) It's fun! There's this guy there that sells really pretty bracelets on sunday ^^

For me, musicals is an absolute must! whenever I'm in L..."

Thanks, Sigrid!! The bluebells sound amazing--I'll definitely have to visit, even if isn't the right season. And that's great to know about the Cambridge market. So far, everyone just tells me to go punting on the river, but I have a feeling there's got to be more to do than rowing ;)

[Darcy]

Paula wrote: "Darcy - you lucky thing!! I have no clue about Cambridge, but am very excited for your trip! Hope you keep us posted when you are over there, so we can live vicariously through you :)"

Thanks, Paula! I'm pretty excited about it. I'll be doing research at the university library there, so I'm thinking about keeping a blog of crazy old stuff I find . . . and it will all be on nineteenth century lit, so it's perfect for this group ;)

[Darcy]

Boof wrote: "Oooooh, Darcy, how exciting! You must, must , must go to York - it is the most fabulous place, steeped in history and so much to do and see there. York is about an hour from Haworth (Bronte Parsona..."

Oh, Boof, that would be so much fun! It's definitely on my list now. I really want to see the tiny Bronte dress at the parsonage ;)

[Darcy]

Gabriele wrote: "Darcy, how exciting! If you can travel up to Bronte Country or down to Hardy's "Wessex", I don't think you'll be disappointed. Literary pilgrimages are such fun!"

Yeah, wouldn't a bike tour around Hardy country be fun? I think in his preface to The Woodlanders Hardy mentions that he once did a bike tour trying to find the original "Little Hintock" village, and he couldn't figure out which one it was! lol. It makes me laugh everytime I think of Hardy, cycling around, completely unable to find the place he based one of his novels on.

[The Book Whisperer (aka Boof)]

Can't wait to see what 19th century lit you can share with us, Darcy. What is this research you will be doing? Really excited for you.

I think you'll love Haworth (and that dress really is tiny!).

[Darcy]

Thanks, Boof! I study nineteenth century reading habits (especially reading visually--illustrations, advertisements, that kind of thing) so hopefully I'll run into some fun things.

[Everyman]

Sigrid wrote: "does any of you know where I can buy old copies of books? I would love to buy some classics."

Since I'm not near a sizable second hand bookstore, I do most of my buying over the Internet. There are two particular sites I used -- both are central sites for a large number of bookstores, so unless the book you're looking for is quite rare, it's likely to be on one of these.

The sites are:
http://www.alibris.com/
and
http://www.abebooks.com/

Many of the booksellers will ship anywhere you are.

[Everyman]

Bill wrote: "Greetins, all. I'm currently writing a novella that takes place in Victorian London. Can anyone recommend any good books about Victorian life?"

It depends how "pure" you want to be. The purest way is to read the authors who were writing in the period you are writing about (you say Victorian, but there is a vast difference between 1837, when the railroads were still new and most people still lived in the country and didn't travel far from home, and 1900, when the railroads had transformed the country, and city life was booming).

Other than reading authors of the time, some useful books:

Start with Mrs. Beeton's Book of Household Management. It's mostly recipes, which can be very helpful in describing meals and shopping expeditions, but it also has chapters on household management, servants, etc.

Issues of The Girls Own Paper for the years you're interested in can be very informative about aspects of daily life.

Several other books that might be helpful are:
Altick, Victorian People and Ideas
Mitchell, Daily Life in Victorian England

The Teaching Company has a lecture course on Victorian Britain, which is on sale at the moment. You would want the DVD version, since the photographs and maps will be of interest to you. YOu can find it at
http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursedes...

Be careful of What Jane Austen Ate and Charles Dickens Knew. Pool is lots of fun, but he isn't very careful about keeping his ages straight, so if you follow him you might mix some Regency aspects into your Victorian

[Sigrid]

thanks everyman :)

[Jenna]

I could lists dozens but a few more:

Barnard, Sylvia M. To Prove I’m Not Forgot—Living and Dying in a Victorian City.
Manchester: Manchester UP, 1990.

Flanders, Judith. Inside the Victorian Home. New York: W. W. Norton and Co., 2004.

Flanders, Judith. The Victorian Home: Domestic Life from Chidbirth to Deathbed. London:
HarperCollins, 2003.

Horn, Pamela. Children’s Work and Welfare, 1780-1890. Cambridge: Cambridge UP, 1995.

Horn, Pamela. Education in Rural England, 1800-1914. New York: St. Martin’s, 1978.

Horn, Pamela. Labouring Life in the Victorian Countryside. Oxford: Fraser Stuart, 1995.

Horn, Pamela. Ladies of the Manor: Wives and Daughters in the Country House Society, 1830-
1918. Sutton Publishing, 1999.

Horn, Pamela. Life as a Victorian Lady. Sutton, 2008.

Horn, Pamela. Life Below Stairs in the 20th Century. Sutton Books, 2003.

Horn, Pamela. Life in the Victorian Country House. Shire, 2010.

Horn, Pamela. Pleasures and Pastimes in Victorian Britain. Sutton, 1999.

Horn, Pamela. The Rise and Fall of the Victorian Servant. Alan Sutton, 1990.

Horn, Pamela. Rural Life in England in the First World War. New York: St. Martin’s
Press/Dublin: Gill and Macmillan,1984.

Horn, Pamela. The Victorian Country Child. Wolfeboro Falls (NH): A. Sutton Publisher, 1991.

Horn, Pamela. The Victorian and Edwardian Schoolchild. London: Alan Sutton 1989.

Wise, Sarah. The Blackest Streets: The Life and Death of a Victorian Slum. Metropolitan Books,
2008.

Woods, Robert. The Demography of Victorian England and Wales. Cambridge UP, 2000.


Shire Publishing has a nicely illustrated if rather introductory series on Victorian....well...pretty much everything...

[Captain Sir Roddy, R.N. (Ret.)]

For those of you who have read, or are considering reading, Tolstoy's Anna Karenina or War and Peace, or some of the other great Russian authors, you might find this 2005 article from the New Yorker magazine of interest. I sure did! It is about translation and the translators; and features the work of two of the best today -- Larissa Volokhonsky and her husband, Richard Pevear. This was a fascinating article to read!

Here's the link: http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005...

Cheers! Chris

[Grace Tjan]

Christopher wrote: "For those of you who have read, or are considering reading, Tolstoy's Anna Karenina or War and Peace, or some of the other great Russian authors, you might find this 2005..."

Interesting, and very informative. Thanks, Chris.

[DJ]

Christopher wrote: "For those of you who have read, or are considering reading, Tolstoy's Anna Karenina or War and Peace, or some of the other great Russian authors, you might find this 2005..."

Thanks for posting this Chris.I found it really I teresting particularly as I am going to read ANNA KARENINA over the summer...

[Sasha]

Christopher wrote: "For those of you who have read, or are considering reading, Tolstoy's Anna Karenina or War and Peace, or some of the other great Russian authors, you might find this 2005..."

Thanks Chris, really interesting article. I have read the new War and Peace translation and loved it-such a sprawling, sumptuous read.

[Sasha]

Jenna wrote: "I could lists dozens but a few more:

Barnard, Sylvia M. To Prove I’m Not Forgot—Living and Dying in a Victorian City.
Manchester: Manchester UP, 1990.

Flanders, Judith. Inside the Victorian H..."
Thanks Jenna-what a great reading list!

[Paula]

I'm at an odd point in reading. Just finished Miss Marjoribanks and an unrelated non-fiction work, and prior to that read Anna Karenina. Normally, I'm looking for something to cleanse my mental palate, but now I'm looking for the opposite. Shakespeare's "Richard II" is staring at me as I type, knowing it is supposed to be next, but I think I want something fun short-ish (but still novel length) to read this afternoon. It's a perfect day for relaxing outside with a book... now, which one???

[The Book Whisperer (aka Boof)]

What did you go for, Paula?

[Captain Sir Roddy, R.N. (Ret.)]

Paula wrote: "I'm at an odd point in reading. Just finished Miss Marjoribanks and an unrelated non-fiction work, and prior to that read Anna Karenina. Normally, I'm looking for something..."

...and how did you find Anna Karenina? One of my all-time favorite novels!

[Paula]

I started reading "Master and Commander," for the Jane Austen group, and because Mr. Christopher has written 5-star reviews on the series :)

It's a fun diversion - I only finished the first chapter, but I needed a break from Victorian women, I guess, and that fits the bill nicely.

[Paula]

And I really liked AK, Chris. It was a bit odd, though; when Hardy spends pages and pages describing nature and the land, I get sleepy. When Tolstoy does it, I'm enchanted. I only liked a few of the characters (Levin pops to mind right away) but I love all the descriptions of places, the social structure, the philosophical debates,... it was quite beautiful and now makes me feel like I can add Russian literature into my interests!

[Captain Sir Roddy, R.N. (Ret.)]

Paula wrote: "I started reading "Master and Commander," for the Jane Austen group, and because Mr. Christopher has written 5-star reviews on the series :)

It's a fun diversion - I only finished the first cha..."

Outstanding! I am taking my copy of M&C with me on my week-long business trip so I can discuss it with all of you (along with Vanity Fair, Miss Marjoribanks, and Daniel Deronda).

[Captain Sir Roddy, R.N. (Ret.)]

Paula wrote: "And I really liked AK, Chris. It was a bit odd, though; when Hardy spends pages and pages describing nature and the land, I get sleepy. When Tolstoy does it, I'm enchanted. I only liked a few of th..."

Oh, I am so glad to hear that you liked this novel! I read AK, in the late-1970s, for the first time. I was watching the brand-new, at the time, BBC film adaptation on PBS Masterpiece Theater and it inspired me to read it. That book absolutely bowled me over the first time I read it; and it has gotten only better with each subsequent reading. Cheers!

[Joy]

For all of you that hold proper grammar usage as a priority, check out this link and have a good laugh:

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com...

[Joy]

Anna wrote: "Oh, so very funny. I do believe the Alot will make his furry presence known in my freshman writing classes this fall. They seem to know many Alots."

Haha - I think the visual of the Alot is a great way to get the point across to your Freshman.

This is also a great tool (less funny, but more informative):
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/apostrophe

[Captain Sir Roddy, R.N. (Ret.)]

Joy wrote: "Anna wrote: "Oh, so very funny. I do believe the Alot will make his furry presence known in my freshman writing classes this fall. They seem to know many Alots."

Haha - I think the visual of the A..."

Priceless, Joy, just priceless!

[Joy]

Glad you enjoyed it as much as I did!

[[deleted user]]

Joy wrote: "For all of you that hold proper grammar usage as a priority, check out this link and have a good laugh:

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com..."

I like this a lot! Thanks for posting the link, Joy! :)

Do you have any advice for the use of quote marks and punctuation? I know that punctuation marks should go inside, but what if the quote marks are surrounding a "title?" Looks weird to me either way....

[SarahC]

Hey Jeannette -- you mean when the title of the piece actually includes a question mark? I haven't run across a rule taht pertains to that lately, but seems like it would be surrounded by the quotes to make clear that was the title. I am a grammar geek, I have to confess.

[[deleted user]]

No, I mean something like this:

I want to recommend "Wuthering Heights." (or "Emma!")

So, the punctuation is part of the sentence and not part of the title. I want to write it: "Emma"!, but that looks wrong. You could also get: Have you read "Who's that girl?"? (That looks funny...)

[Captain Sir Roddy, R.N. (Ret.)]

Sarah wrote: "Hey Jeannette -- you mean when the title of the piece actually includes a question mark? I haven't run across a rule taht pertains to that lately, but seems like it would be surrounded by the quot..."

I would agree.

[[deleted user]]

Christopher wrote: "I would agree. ..."

You are very agreeable as a rule! :)

[Captain Sir Roddy, R.N. (Ret.)]

Anna wrote: "I think the solution lies in the latest MLA decree that we do not put titles in quotes. We italicize them."

That makes sense to me, and it keeps it simple.

[[deleted user]]

Anna wrote: "I think the solution lies in the latest MLA decree that we do not put titles in quotes. We italicize them."

Thanks, Anna, that is a good solution. I am guilty of "overusing" quotes! :)

[Susan]

Anna wrote: "Joy wrote: "For all of you that hold proper grammar usage as a priority, check out this link and have a good laugh:

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com......"

Thank you Joy! I love this Alot! ;)

[[deleted user]]

Anna, I am a grammar geek, too, but I haven't written any papers in a long time. Any changes to MLA would go past me without my knowing it. I just knew that my punctuation did not look right. That's the way my mother taught me! :)

[Joy]

Anna wrote: "I think the solution lies in the latest MLA decree that we do not put titles in quotes. We italicize them."

I agree, italicizing title of novels is the most accurate and correct usage, and eliminates these problems and confusion. If you are writing the title by hand and cannot italicize it, you should underline it.

[[deleted user]]

Thanks, Joy! I kept waffling, because I really felt the punctuation belonged outside, even if the general rule said to do otherwise. It is so hard to fight a gut feeling when it comes to grammar! :)

[Captain Sir Roddy, R.N. (Ret.)]

One of the most useful little books I own is Strunk & White's The Elements of Style (4th Edition). I cannot recommend this book highly enough. I make it a point to read/review it at least once a year. I have required my staff, here in the office, to have a copy on their desk as a reference.

[Joy]

Christopher wrote: "One of the most useful little books I own is Strunk & White's The Elements of Style (4th Edition). I cannot recommend this book highly enough. I make it a point to read/review it at least once a ..."

Thanks Chris--I need to get that. For a laugh (and some good information!) I loved Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation . But beware, it is written primarily about British English, however, the author does a good job at acknowledging the differences in US rules.

[[deleted user]]

Joy wrote: "But of course! That gut feeling might come from the rule that when you end a sentence in a quotation, the punctuation remains outside of the quotation marks (US rules). So, your gut is correct, jus..."

I was taught to keep the punctuation inside the quote marks (I did go to school in the stone age.) lol

My husband and I bump into this all the time with German. I learned German grammar as an adult, so I know why things are. He just knows that they are. I had to help our daughter with German grammar. :)

[[deleted user]]

Christopher wrote: "One of the most useful little books I own is Strunk & White's The Elements of Style (4th Edition). I cannot recommend this book highly enough. I make it a point to read/review it at least once a ..."

I have gotten so lazy because I don't really write any more, except for these posts. I think I will take some lit. courses when my daughter heads off to college.