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What Are We Reading? 23 Nov 2020
Lljones wrote: "Hey, Willy Vlautin fans - there's a new one coming!The Night Always Comes"
Great news Lisa.
Justine wrote: "Here are some gentle jokes..."Love them - really missing the 'like' feature from TLS.
Andy wrote: "A return to the darkside for me with In the Forest by Edna O'Brien."I thought this looked quite promising when I read the preview some time back.
Machenbach wrote: "I also think that some books are now being included on undergrad syllabi principally for non-aesthetic (or non-formal) reasons"True that - see also for book award longlists. As to 'greatness', I suspect Kant may have characterised the percetion of greatness as distinct from that of beauty - it is really the perception of the 'sublime', a sort of admiration for magnitude (or something like that, my knowledge of Kant is sketchy).
How are you getting on with the Ben Lerner? I noticed you were reading other things now.
Alwynne wrote (312): "Georg (297) wrote: "Alwynne wrote (275): "REVIEW 
Insel by Mina LoyMina Loy’s elusive novel is a composite of experiences and ideas taken from her life: ..."
Sorry, I was just asking an obvious question. Your answer was pure speculation I think. He was, by all accounts, a difficult person. He led a pretty peripatetic life before he returned to Germany for good in 1938. Maybe I just have a problem with the "fled Nazi Germany" truism if it cannot be backed up. So many people were forced to emigrate, more often than not because their very existence, if not their lives, were endangered. Was Oelze one of them? Maybe. But if you cannot substantiate your claim you shouldn't make it, let alone defend it, imho.
Alwynne wrote: "Is anyone reading anything seasonal?"Well, it's Black Friday and I'm reading The Warmth of Other Suns: The Epic Story of America's Great Migration.
Justine wrote (#312): "Some other points occur to me. For example, I might be able to justify my musical preferences more firmly if I possessed something in the way of musicological training."Yes, I really agree with this inter. I think depending on one's increasing knowledge, the space that Mach defines between subjective and objective expands, and so does the ability to discuss or argue it.
Even in the extreme example of mathematical proof, we'd be graded differently depending on how elegantly we might have demonstrated it, all down to the subjective objectivity, or objective subjectivity of our formidable Maths teacher. On the other hand, you'd have to go extremely basic in terms of food - even Pickled Onion Monster Munch might just prove too 'elaborate', as having more than one axis on which to judge it - to defeat an argumentative food critic/thinker!
Justine wrote: "I remember some punctuation-based discussion back in the mists of TLS time. Here are some gentle jokes with which to spend the next five minutes:• An Oxford comma walks into a bar where it spends..."
Brilliant!!
I have been off the blog for a couple of weeks, being overwhelmed by the US election and its aftermath. I did not stop reading but I was watching TV news a lot. Something I normally never do.The Chinese Gold Murders, The Chinese Lake Murders, The Chinese Maze Murders, and The Haunted Monastery. Robert Van Gulik
I have derived most pleasure this year, during lockdown, widlfires, election, etc from re-reading old favorites. For those of you who haven’t read the Judge Dee novels, the author was a Dutch diplomat working in China and the Far East. He published extensively in several areas of China scholarship, but in his spare time knocking about in antique shops apparently discovered Chinese detective stories-a genre invented, like much else, by the Chinese, in the 17th century. He translated one, “Dee Goong An”, and it was so successful he decided to write others in this mode.
The traditional Chinese detective novel features the local District Magistrate, who in addition to registering births, marriages, and deaths, maintaining the land registry, mediating disputes, keeping accurate records etc, was responsible for investigating and prosecuting crimes. A permanently overworked official, he was transferred to a new post every 3 years. Judge Dee, the central character in these stories, is China’s Sherlock Holmes. He is based on a real person, Dee Jen-Djieh, who lived between 630-700 AD during the T’ang Dynasty, and gained fame as a particularly clever investigator of difficult cases during the early part of his career as a District Magistrate. In his later career, he was a famous statesman of the T’ang Empire. He features in Lin Yutang’s biography of Empress Wu.
I love these novels for their wonderful evocation of life in T’ang Dynasty China. The T'ang Dynasty was China's "Golden Age". The setting is the Middle Kingdom, at the borders of which are assorted barbarians-Tatars, Uighurs, Koreans, Indians, and the odd Persian, but no Europeans, at that time the Great Unwashed. The judge is a sympathetic character, a staunch Confucian, with three wives and a large household. He has several faithful assistants, Sergeant Hoong, Ma Joong, Chiao Tai, and Tao Gan, in addition to the staff of the Tribunal. The novels are set in different, mostly walled, towns in China and each involves the Judge solving several difficult cases at the same time, as he would have done in real life. Not having modern forensics at his disposal, he uses his intelligence and knowledge of human nature to solve crimes. Every sentence carries some detail of life and the complexity of traditional China comes over vividly. Since traditional China was swept away by the Communists (aka throwing the baby out with the bathwater), you cannot see it by visiting China, but you can get an idea of it from these books, written as they were by an accomplished scholar in the field. I first read these stories in my mid teens and they have never palled. I re-read them regularly-there are 16 or 17 in the whole series- and I wish there were more… Judge Dee movies are a "thing" in China and I wish the BBC would do a new dramatization of these books. They did one in the mid 60s, with Michael Goodliffe as Judge Dee, which I remember, but there’s room for a new version.
Alwynne wrote: "Definitely team Machenbach in this debate! Really envious of how well and how succinctly you summarised this too."Yes. I was going to say, I'm quite glad @scarlet took one for the team and played the role of the antagonist; that's pushed Mach to explain in ever clearer ways the concepts he was 'defending'.
CCCubbon wrote: "I thought it time for a Friday poem.Spring and Fall
BY GERARD MANLEY HOPKINS
to a young child
Márgarét, áre you gríeving
Over Goldengrove unleaving?
Leáves like the things of man, you
With your..."
I love that poem!I would also like to recommend a book to you called Golden Grove Unleaving by Jill Paton Walsh :)
scarletnoir wrote: "Machenbach wrote: ... the 'greatness' of Ulysses, isn't principally argued from mere strength of feeling... but from the object itself and from criteria. These criteria are, of course, not objecti..."
There are fashionable view that come and go, certainly in the field of the history of Art. I fell foul of the course director of my art history course (12 or so years ago) because I wanted to write about two of the intellectual heavyweights of Modernism, there was a lot that was hard to stomach about them, on a personal level, Le Corbusier and Frank Lloyd Wright, though they were very much of their time, but they still had a lot of interest to say, about their ideas on landscape and architecture.
My course director's views were very much about reclaiming women's 'forgotten' or 'suppressed' relevance to art history. I was more interested in the ideas for their own sake. Still, we did not get on, because she thought that I should have, apparently, 'moved on' and shunned their ideas because they came from an apparently disgraced 'macho' source and perspective. To me many of the ideas, in themselves, were still worth evaluating, (though they both had a lot of ideas that, from our perspective, these days, were pretty naff as well... to say the least!) irrespective of where or who they were coming from.
I had no interest in denying their own personal history, which was fascinating but also problematic at best. I cant help but think, after Justine's entertaining selection of idiomatic 'digressions', that a lot of modern academic discourse is about 'throwing out the baby with the bathwater'!... on idealogical principles alone...
Justine wrote: "I remember some punctuation-based discussion back in the mists of TLS time. Here are some gentle jokes with which to spend the next five minutes:• An Oxford comma walks into a bar where it spends..."
Ta! :-)
Sandya (337) wrote: "I have been off the blog for a couple of weeks, being overwhelmed by the US election and its aftermath. I did not stop reading but I was watching TV news a lot. Something I normally never do.The ..."
Nice to see you back, Sandya. A friend of mine has been recommending the Judge Dee books to me for years, but now I'm going to pursue them more energetically - especially given their setting in the Tang Dynasty, to whose poets I have been giving some attention. So, thanks!
Justine wrote: "Sandya (337) wrote: "I have been off the blog for a couple of weeks, being overwhelmed by the US election and its aftermath. I did not stop reading but I was watching TV news a lot. Something I nor..."I too enjoy the T'ang poets!! I have a collection I bought years ago at uni, that I still read.
Machenbach (345) wrote: "On another note"And on a third note, I hope you'll comment on The Rector's Daughter when you finish it. I'm very interested.
Alwynne wrote: "Georg wrote: "Alwynne wrote (312): "Georg (297) wrote: "Alwynne wrote (275): "REVIEW Insel by Mina LoyMina Loy’s elusive novel is a composite of experie..."
For what its worth (probably nothing): I have never set out to 'pull you up' or 'hector' you. I do no even know what you allude to whwn you say "...Down to having me scrabble around for page references to prove I wasn't lying or pulling stuff out of my arse..."
Whether you misunderstood my intentions or whether I have expressed myself badly is a moot point.
I have always admired your erudition and eloquence. And took it as a given that you are not averse to,and well able to deal with, the occasional challenging (?) question If you took them as personal attacks I am sorry. It was never my intention to attack you, or your views.
Machenbach wrote: "Yep, it was like a Socratic dialogue, but with more Monster Munch references."AH! I was just thinking that, how very maieutic the whole thing was!
On another note I visited a real live bookshop today, for the first time since March I guess, and bought zero books.
Oh no. Not even for Mrs Mach or relatives and friends? Hope you enjoyed your time there though...
I finished this today and here is my review:
The premise of the book is that Harold is not dead, so William sends a motley crew northwards to find him This consists of a psychopathic one-eyed Norman noble, a cowardly Norman noble, a very infuriating no-it-all Norman administrator, ostensibly creating a survey of the land, plus one very reluctant Saxon. Heading the other way from Stamford Bridge in search of said Harold are three equally psychopathic Vikings fresh from battle and another reluctant Saxon. There are running jokes, hapless folk and plenty of sarcastic wit which, particularly at beginning, do make you chuckle. Is this enough to sustain the book over 335 pages including three epilogues? I don't believe so, the plot is very thin and it all tends to become very repetitive. Cutting the book by around 100 pages may have helped.
Bill wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "Is anyone reading anything seasonal?"Well, it's Black Friday and I'm reading The Warmth of Other Suns: The Epic Story of America's Great Migration.
so sad. I hope it will NOT be forever that anyone who is different is by definition a lesser human.
A general reply to 274, 278, 283, 290 – scarletnoir, Georg, AB76, JustineI understand that US policies have international effects (though from inside the belly of the beast, I find it somewhat hard to gauge the degree) and the consequent interest and concern with which people in other nations may observe and prepare for them. I guess it’s the kind of partisanship that, for example, results in examining UK bookshelves for books “by” or in favor of one specific US politician that it’s hard to wrap my mind around. What possible earthly difference could it make? But if Susan Hill is a sort of crank, I’m no doubt reading too much into that. Also, since I myself never read books by or nominally by political figures, no matter what their ideology, it wouldn’t seem at all odd that a bookstore would decline to stock them.
(Anybody interested in either of these books by former Pennsylvania US Senators? I trust not.)
Thanks for the responses. I had started to type up a longer reply, added to it throughout the day, and then decided that I really wasn’t writing anything worth saying.
Machenbach (301) wrote: "Magrat wrote: "I think you might enjoy Selina Hastings's biography."Cheers Magrat. I'm generally a bit averse to biographies, but I'm quite tempted by this one. Hastings has a biography of [book:..."
A good biography is never superfluous. Elizabeth Jane Howard notoriously mined her private life for her books, but her autobiography tended towards self-serving memoir. Artemis Cooper's biography is most enlightening, addressing head-on the question of how someone so wise about human nature could have made such a mess of her own life. It also explains why the BBC only made 5 episodes of the Cazalet TV adaptation.
The Sound of Things Falling by Juan Gabriel Vasquez is more Graham Greene than Garcia Marquez. The version of Colombia represented in this dramatic novel is not one of gypsies but one of assassinations and drug cartels. I took an interest after the text received the Dublin International prize, at which point I read the opening description of a hippopotamus “the colour of black pearls” (I was not aware of this, but apparently Pablo Escobar introduced these mammals into Colombia). The prose is generally plain, but Gabriel Vasquez likes to surprise the reader with unexpected similes, such as a dishwasher that sounds “like an old dying pigeon”. My verdict is that The Sound of Things Falling is a pretty good book, but possibly not what I’m looking for right now.Continuing my search for whatever it is I’m looking for, I’m turning to The Swimming-Pool Library by Alan Hollinghurst.
Will begin reading some MR James today and this quote from a collection of essays by him at the end of the OUP edition is very much in tune with my thinking on literature:“…reticence conduces to effect, blatancy ruins it and there is much blatancy in a lot of recent stories…”
- MR James, “Some Remarks on Ghost Stories”,1929
AB76 (359) wrote: "Will begin reading some MR James today and this quote from a collection of essays by him at the end of the OUP edition is very much in tune with my thinking on literature:“…reticence conduces to..."
As someone who has never got on with ghost stories - they just don't affect me - I'll be interested in your comments on M R James. Does his 'reticence' work, and how?
Justine wrote: "AB76 (359) wrote: "Will begin reading some MR James today and this quote from a collection of essays by him at the end of the OUP edition is very much in tune with my thinking on literature:“…re..."
i see the reticence idea as refraining from too much gore and sexual content, leaving these things to the imagination or by hints, something i wish films would do more, we dont need to see violence or sexual content , it can be hinted at
As regards MR James prose, he is a rather austere and typical victorian-edwardian writer than say Arthur Machen (his near contemporary.) I will update you more on this when i have read more stories
I am not really reading ghost stories for effect, its more for the style and the approach to the "pay off" i'm interested in. Machen managed to produce a very unsettling world without much overt menace for a few pages at a time..
Alwynne (331) wrote: "Is anyone reading anything seasonal? It's really cold, have had to bribe the dog into lying on my lap to get an extra source of heat. So I decided to go with the flow and am dipping into a book I p..."
I've just finished The Light in the Dark: A Winter Journal
Horatio Claire uses a diary format to record life in wintery Hebdon Bridge with his partner, their young son, and his teenage stepson. One review I read played up the focus of the book as Clare's depression but in fact that's not the case at all. It's there in the background and we find out his diagnosis in the epilogue.
What the book does have is some lovely writing about the weather and his relationship with Aubrey, his 5 year old son. Clare's partner, Rebecca, is also well described and their love for each other is clear.
In the end I found it, for want of a better phrase, life affirming. I was also left in awe of Clare's mother who runs a Welsh sheep farm virtually single handed!
I've just finished The Light in the Dark: A Winter Journal
Horatio Claire uses a diary format to record life in wintery Hebdon Bridge with his partner, their young son, and his teenage stepson. One review I read played up the focus of the book as Clare's depression but in fact that's not the case at all. It's there in the background and we find out his diagnosis in the epilogue.
What the book does have is some lovely writing about the weather and his relationship with Aubrey, his 5 year old son. Clare's partner, Rebecca, is also well described and their love for each other is clear.
In the end I found it, for want of a better phrase, life affirming. I was also left in awe of Clare's mother who runs a Welsh sheep farm virtually single handed!
@Reen and @Alwynne. Following your comments and the interview with Magnus Carlsen (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/mag...), I've watched the whole of The Queen's Gambit last weekend and on Monday (having been delayed on preparing my 'agneau de sept heures' I had to stay up late to wait for it to be cooked, so of course used that excuse to finish watching it!). It was thoroughly enjoyable. The writing was perhaps a bit pedestrian and not very surprising, but I love the actors and the nuanced relationship Beth has with Jolene and her adoptive mother. What an actress the latter one is (Marielle Heller). And a director in her own rights!
Random other thoughts: they've managed to make the actress playing Beth (Anya Taylor-Joy) a very convincing 15 (or even 13, which is what she's pretending to be!); I wish they had filmed Paris in Paris, 'twas not even close; the latter two episodes' wardrobe is indeed bloody wonderful (my favourite is the green velvet dress in Russia) and I think @Magrat would approve; the kid from Love Actually is instantly recognisable; the actress playing Jolene is a brilliant newcomer; I can see why Beth wouldd fall for Townes; I loved the wallpaper in the living-room before she changed it into pink, but would probably kill myself if I had to live in any of the two decors of her house for more than a few days.
Edits: @Gpfr (#220): "Oh joy! When I returned from my certainly not more than 1 km distance walk, I found Slightly Foxed in my letter box. For those who don't know it - in spite of myself and Magrat and I think someone else whom I've forgotten - this beautifully produced quarterly (...)".
I *think* the other aficionado is @AlbyBeliever/@Rick2016 (Shaggy from Scooby-Doo).
@Sandya/@lorantffy: thanks again for promoting the Judge Dee series, which I think you've discussed in the past on TLS with perhaps @scarlet. If my dad hasn't read them, that's a shoo-in for Christmas!
CCCubbon wrote: "I thought it time for a Friday poem.What a beautiful choice of a poem!
I first came across the poem in the film Margaret (2011). I was a bit puzzled about the title of the film because the main character was called Lisa, and it only became clearer half-way through the film when the teacher read the poem to his class. You catch a snatch of the poem in the trailer Lisa blames herself for a road accident, but her ideals don't mesh with the realities of the adult world she finds herself in.
It's a long, slow film, but very moving.
Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YAiS...
IMDb: www.imdb.com/title/tt0466893/
Poem Audio: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem...
PaleFires wrote: "Hi Sandya, I personally appreciate the interesting looking list of historical Chinese detective stories you provided. I had no idea that these existed, but intend to learn more about this esoteric ..."There are 17-18 of them, plus recent spin-offs. They were written in the 50s and 60s and were very popular at the time. I own them all! Ready for a resurgence. I watched "Detective Dee" on Netflix last night!
Justine wrote: "AB76 (359) wrote: "Will begin reading some MR James today and this quote from a collection of essays by him at the end of the OUP edition is very much in tune with my thinking on literature:“…re..."
Gosh-I love MR. James! Like another poster, I don't generally care for "ghost" stories. I prefer supernatural horror. MR James is THE exception. They are not strictly "ghost" stories in the traditional sense of a revenant draped in white curtains either. I will not say any more, not wishing to spoil things for you!
For those with a yen for yet more lists, here's one from our old patron, ranging from literary fiction to comic books, from poetry to food|:https://www.theguardian.com/books/202...
There are probably many words I mispronounce because I’ve only ever encountered them in my reading, but I didn’t think the title of Marilynne Robinson’s second novel was one of them.On the NY Times 10 Best Books of 2020 podcast the book editors were each given a chance to recommend a book that didn’t make the list. The editor who recommended Jack stated that it was part of the “Jill-e-ad” series. Now I’d always pronounced Gilead with a hard “G” (as in give), probably going back to a friend in a church choir who joked about “a bomb in Gilead” (a joke I also encountered later in a Peter DeVries novel – no doubt a common one with choristers).
How do you readers pronounce it? (I should say I’ve never seen an episode of The Handmaid’s Tale, where I presume it’s being spoken constantly.)
Here am I valiantly trying to like The Thursday Murder Club by Richard Osman while it is setting my teeth on edge with short, short chapters and clever, clever froth on frothy coffee delivery, just like he speaks.It’s coming across so far as witty implausible nonsense easy reading. Will I finish? Not sure. The time gaps between sessions are lengthening and I find myself regarding the TBR collection. I expect many will love it and I believe it is selling well, maybe you’ll find it in your Christmas stocking.
Sandya wrote: "Justine wrote: "AB76 (359) wrote: "Will begin reading some MR James today and this quote from a collection of essays by him at the end of the OUP edition is very much in tune with my thinking on li..."thanks sandya, it was hard to find the OUP edition, had to get it second hand, i wanted that compared to the Penguin collections
Lljones wrote: "Bill wrote: "How do you readers pronounce it?..."How to pronounce Gilead... (372)"
Interesting - I'm hearing my pronunciation in the USA, but the UK version introduces a further wrinkle. It's three syllables in the US but only two in the UK - if I heard the latter in a conversation I would transcribe it as "gillied" and understood it as a past participle.
Mod
How to pronounce Gilead... (372)"
"It's three syllables in the US but two in the UK ..."
Well, on following the link, there are variants: 2 of the UK examples have 3 syllables.
Mod
How to pronounce Gilead... (372)"
One of the Australian English entries pronounces it Jill-e-ad. As do several of the French ones.
Bill wrote(369): Now I’d always pronounced Gilead with a hard “G” (as in give)Keep the faith. Jod will not approve of Jill-e-ad.
200 years ago today Friedrich Engels was born. Not that you'd notice, looking at the TV programmes in his home country.
Justine wrote: "For those with a yen for yet more lists, here's one from our old patron, ranging from literary fiction to comic books, from poetry to food|:https://www.theguardian.com/books/202......"
#368 - I am so easily distracted Clickbait warning! So I went to check out the books, but saw 'most expensive family feud goes to court' on the side and of course - I bit. Just think - the poor son in this scenario is limited by the court to spending only £3000/week. Back to the original quest now,
#368 again. I was glad to see Susie Steiner's third in the Manon Bradshaw series Remain Silent make the Guardian list. I even re-read numbers 1 and 2 before I tackled this latest one. Great police procedurals!
MK (378) wrote: "Justine wrote: "For those with a yen for yet more lists, here's one from our old patron, ranging from literary fiction to comic books, from poetry to food|:https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/n..."
Your comment directly after Georg's (377) on Engels ... How does one digest the irony?
CCCubbon wrote: "Here am I valiantly trying to like The Thursday Murder Club by Richard Osman while it is setting my teeth on edge with short, short chapters and clever, clever froth on frothy coffe..."I downloaded it from the library. Perhaps that makes the chapters less noticeable. In any case, I liked it, but I like a light story now and then. (I've even downloaded some Hercule Poirot's lately.) I think it has something to do with the times - or that's my excuse.
Justine wrote: "MK (378) wrote: "Justine wrote: "For those with a yen for yet more lists, here's one from our old patron, ranging from literary fiction to comic books, from poetry to food|:https://www.theguardian..."
#380/#378? - this creaky site can create a laugh.
MK wrote: "Time for a chuckle - https://www.theguardian.com/books/pic..."His 7 November one should also hit a nerve here.
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Thank you for the jokes! That was fun and cheering.