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UTOPIA/DYSTOPIA - ORWELL
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1984 - Background and side-reading
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THAT, Derek, is sinful!Born and raised to be a perfect cup of tea, and then the poor little things are squandered, stewed, no less.
"Help us!" Tiny whines rise from the pot.
Stew! That's the word I was looking for. Thank you Derek!I'll rephrase: I tend to let my tea get stewed. It's a natural consequence of my dread of weak tea.
What's too long? 20-25 minutes, wouldn't you say?
Mod
I'll rephrase: I tend to let my tea get stewed. It's a natural consequence of my dread of weak tea.
What's too long? 20-25 minutes, would..."
According to these articles, it depends on the tea:
http://the.republicoftea.com/library/...
and http://www.twoleavestea.com/steep-time/
This one is about Chinese and Japanese Green teas:
http://www.thefragrantleaf.com/green-...
It would seem the consensus would be that anything over 10 minutes might in fact be too long...
But for those of you oversteepers, there is yet hope:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/285... ;)
PS, Oops, this is in the wrong thread... we should have been here https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/... ... but hey, whose watching, anyway... @_@
Ruth wrote: "THAT, Derek, is sinful!Born and raised to be a perfect cup of tea, and then the poor little things are squandered, stewed, no less.
"Help us!" Tiny whines rise from the pot."
I know...
Traveller wrote: "PS, Oops, this is in the wrong thread... "‘There’s been a lot of tea about lately. They’ve captured India, or something,’
So maybe it should be in the Part 2 thread :-)
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‘There’s been a lot of tea about lately. They’ve captured India, or something,’
So maybe it should be in the Part 2 thread :-)"
:D Oh what would we do without e-texts...
This one is about Chinese and Japanese Green teas:http://www.thefragrantleaf.com/green-...
Oh,dear, I'm a sinner, too, not so much with over-steeping as over heating. Sigh!
But to be (a bit) more on topic:I agree that you quickly get fed up of watching the likes of Dawkins and Hitchens in their angry atheist mode, but I wouldn't reduce them to that.
Yes, judged by the majority of videos on youtube they are both excessively strident and repetitive, but it's worth remembering what they have become, namely symbols for young (often teenage) atheists all over the world. In danger of generalizing, I'd say that the most liberating act as a newborn infidel is to be able to mock the god you've had to respect all your life, which is why there is such a huge market for videos of people like Hitchens and Dawkins bullying random believers.
Hitchens is much more interesting when you get past that: his fascination with Gothic cathedrals, the King James bible, Orwell and literature in general, the Founding Fathers and the U.S. Constitution, Thomas Paine, and not to forget his endless supply of anecdotes from his student days and journalistic career.
There are some (although I admit, not many) videos where he is in a much more, um, reflective and humble mood.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRLYL...
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2007/1...
Ruth wrote: "This one is about Chinese and Japanese Green teas:http://www.thefragrantleaf.com/green-...
Oh,dear, I'm a sinner, too, not so much with over-steeping as over heating. Sigh!"
I can't drink tea after having visited mainland China. It's just not the same. It's like visiting a chocolatier in St. Moritz and then biting into a Hershey's. I have to have tea the Chinese way now, or not at all. Indian or Japanese tea is also good, but if it comes in a packet or a bag, I'm going to pass.
Traveller, I heard an interview with the now former Mormon, and one thing he said I found really interesting is that without the three-hour service on Sunday, he and his family now go out into the countryside and celebrate nature.
Ruth wrote: "Traveller, I heard an interview with the now former Mormon, and one thing he said I found really interesting is that without the three-hour service on Sunday, he and his family now go out into th..."Mormons don't like tea either ;)
I'm sure Goodreads is not the place to discuss religion, but a person could draw parallels between 1984 and religion. I believe at one point O'Brian even says: "We are priests of power." I guess Orwell's overall message is be very careful of authority, whether religious or political.
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Didn't i post that specific link on Mievillians, though? Sounds nice, in any case.
Karin wrote: "I'm sure Goodreads is not the place to discuss religion, but a person could draw parallels between 1984 and religion. I believe at one point O'Brian even says: "We are priests of power." I guess Orwell's overall message is be very careful of authority, whether religious or political. ."
Oh, very much so. I was tempted to point that out, but I guess I was slightly nervous of creating an uncomfortable situation for those around here who are religious. But yes, Christopher Hitchens actually has a very good point as well, when he points out how very well religion manages to 'brainwash' people.
Not to mention that religion is not the only thing one can be brainwashed about.
Mod
Hmm, but i think what is also meant; is that once you are INSIDE the religion, it can brainwash you about things. I might have mentioned my involvement with a sect before. Well, how did i first come across the sect? They were having a talk at my uni about some or other scientific phenomenon, hosted by one of the professors there who had a Phd in some medical/biology field. Turns out that 2 of the professors there belonged to this sect and this is how they got followers.
Well, I was drawn in for a while, and slowly, through the course of meetings, which you thought was at a club or academy, they would subtly brainwash you, to the point that a skeptic like myself started to believe in aliens and angels, (even got me praying to the angels in mystical "meditation' sessions,) and in various aspects of mysticism and the Jewish Kabbala, mixed in with aspects of Christianity. Funnily enough I actually believed more in the angels than the aliens, but at some point in time, I took a step back and had a good look at what i had started to do and to believe, and I started voicing my doubts to another member who, like me, had been a complete skeptic when we started. This member was horrified at my 'heresy' and blew the whistle on me, and I was 'excommunicated' with vitriol. I was told i had been sent by Satan himself to try and divert the true believers from their path and their all-important work.
Sooo, yeah, not all of us might be equally gullible, but phew, humans are immensely vulnerable to suggestion, and if you do it the right way, you can eventually lead them to believe that white is actually black, just like Orwell was trying to show us.
Of course, you don't always have to torture people to get to that point - simply get them to believe in a deity which is surrounded by healthy dollops of mysticism, and you can make the acolyte believe almost anything by claiming that the deity "told them" X,Y and Z.
Absolutely. I think the most insidious of these sects are the ones which purport to have nothing to do with religion or belief in the supernatural. They suck you in to convert your beliefs regarding social or class issues instead.
I was actually thinking more along the lines of governments convincing their people that going to war is necessary, holding on to outdated/outmoded forms of energy is 'better', stuff like that.
Mod
Like how Hitler and Mussolini started out? :P
Ruth wrote: "I was actually thinking more along the lines of governments convincing their people that going to war is necessary, holding on to outdated/outmoded forms of energy is 'better', stuff like that."
Sure, but Orwell deals quite directly with that.
Yeah, I was implying the stuff Orwell hammered home.
Well, and another obvious parallel is sexuality. Controlling people's sexuality was key to the structure of many organized religions. It's obviously key to the structure of power in 1984 as well.
Mod
Excellent point. Even Queen Victoria had a stab at that, eh?
Sorry if this is old news. There's a blog that contains George Orwell's diaries 1938-1942. I didn't read all of it, and I find it rather dull actually, but I think it should be mentioned as a side-reading :)https://orwelldiaries.wordpress.com/a...
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Traveller wrote: "Well, this is pretty close to the level of intrusion in 1984, hmm? http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/20..."As is this
http://www.dw.de/samsung-admits-smart...
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That feels extremely 1984! I saw something similar to that with regard to using voice recognition software...
Traveller wrote: "That feels extremely 1984! I saw something similar to that with regard to using voice recognition software..."That's right. Those "intelligent personal assistants", as they are called, are developed by every major player. Apple's Siri, Google Now, Microsoft Cortana, Amazon Echo. They all record your voice and send it to servers for analyzing. It's pretty disturbing actually.
Mod
Speaking of Cortana, I find this rather weird: http://www.pcworld.com/article/288190...
Traveller wrote: "Well, this is pretty close to the level of intrusion in 1984, hmm? http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/20..."Fortunately, I'd never realized my calls were encrypted in the first place...
Matt wrote: "As is this
http://www.dw.de/samsung-admits-smart..."
No, that part is innocent enough. The real problem is that once Samsung has it (or any of the others)… so does the NSA.
I don't use any of the assistant thingies, I rooted all of my devices and deleted stuff I don't want. I'm sure they can still snoop on my web packets and break into my router if they really wanted to, but they'd just find a lot of music and project files.
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Derek (Guilty of thoughtcrime) wrote: "No, that part is innocent enough. The real problem is that once Samsung has it (or any of the others)… so does the NSA."Yes, I should have said this. I just thought it evident. I live by the assumption that anything that goes "over the wire" also goes to NSA and other intelligence.
Y'all love your tea, don't you? :) How fitting for a George Orwell discussion. I'm sorry I missed this discussion. Reading it now.
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Chris wrote: "Y'all love your tea, don't you?"Yes, we all does! I just spent two weeks in Portugal. The tea was awful. They tend to make no distinction between tea and herbal infusions. One morning it was a choice between nothing and chamomile. Nothing won out, easily.
Then on the return trip through London, I discovered Tregothnan: Tea grown in the UK!
Traveller wrote: "Chris! Long time no see. Welcome. Do chime in on the discussion - our discussions never die!"Hi, Trav - I'm still trying to work through all the threads...
Derek (Guilty of thoughtcrime) wrote: "Chris wrote: "Y'all love your tea, don't you?"
Yes, we all does! I just spent two weeks in Portugal. The tea was awful. They tend to make no distinction between tea and herbal infusions. One mor..."
Tee-hee!
I'm not an expert on tea - maybe I should switch from my usual coffee swill now and then, I've heard it is more healthy.
Portugal! That sounds interesting! Business, leisure or both?
Portugal was leisure (well, hard work but done for fun): kayaking down the Douro river, followed by two days of even harder work, tasting Ports.But I stopped off in England for a job interview, which went well.
I read this book recently, as a close friend of mine lists it as his favourite novel, and loves discussing it with anyone who will listen. I had thought it would be similar to "Brave New World," which I despised, but was surprised at how much I actually enjoyed "1984."
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As you can see we had lots to say about 1984. I really need to re-read Brave New World, actually... I can barely remember much out of it.
Derek (Guilty of thoughtcrime) wrote: "Portugal was leisure (well, hard work but done for fun): kayaking down the Douro river, followed by two days of even harder work, tasting Ports.
But I stopped off in England for a job interview, w..."
Sounds like fun, Derek - so that's why you were absent so long - it's not the easiest thing to connect to the internet while kayaking, and who wants to, while they're tasting Port in Portugal...
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We (other topics)1984 (other topics)
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The Anatomy of Fascism (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Robert O. Paxton (other topics)George Orwell (other topics)
Long enough to get cold? I make expensive tea, and then rui..."
You might find this interesting: http://www.amazing-green-tea.com/cold...