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Sounds more like Dickens, but it can’t be denied that Mr. Collins apologizes a lot in Pride and Prejudice! I can’t think of anyone in S&S who does.
That doesn't ring a bell. Austen's characters don't usually apologize for anything!
Abigail wrote: "Sounds more like Dickens, but it can’t be denied that Mr. Collins apologizes a lot in Pride and Prejudice! I can’t think of anyone in S&S who does."Although many should!!
So true! Even Willoughby can’t quite bring himself to grovel, resorting instead to self-justification.
Abigail, I also thought of Dickens. Mr Snagsby from Bleak House comes to mind with his"not putting too fine a point upon it". :)
You are probably thinking of Mr. Collins in P&P. In his letter to Mr. Bennet, announcing his visit, he apologizes for being next in the entail and his intention to make amends.
When he asks Mrs. Bennet which of her girls did the cooking and she replies that they we well off enough to keep a cook, he begged her pardon and "continued to apologize for about a quarter of an hour."
He apologizes to Mrs. Phillips for his presence when her nieces come to visit and apologizes when they leave.
When Mr. Collins dances with Lizzy, he is "apologizing instead of attending."
When he learns that Mr. Darcy is Lady Catherine's niece, he insists on introducing himself and says that he would have done it sooner and his ignorance of the connection must "plead my apology" and when he goes over to Mr. Darcy, Lizzy sees from his lips the motion of the word "apology."
When Lizzy visits the Collinses, Charlotte takes over the introductions to avoid Mr. Collins' "apologies and thanks" and when they play cards at Rosings, Mr. Collins apologizes for every win.
Yes, I suspect Mr Collins as well. He was, as we all know, 'not a sensible man'.....! It's a pity that the virtue of apologizing can lapse into becoming merely irritating. After all, those who refuse to apologise are actually worse human beings!
I wonder who else in Austen should apologise, but never does? Willoughby, yes, indeed, and, of course Wickham (the thought would never occur!) (one of those wretched people that continually think they are 'hard done by' and build their whole life on that premise). Who else I wonder? Mary Crawford probably, she never seems to think ill of herself.
And Henry Crawford never apologises for destroying the life of Maria Bertram, one of the most shameful acts in all of Austen. Yes, Maria wasn't a nice person, but her life was smashed to pieces by him - and he got off scot free.
All the heroes should apologize, especially Darcy. He just makes the excuse that he was brought up in "pride and conceit" and to think highly of himself but not so much others. He concedes that Elizabeth changed him but he needs to apologize for his insulting first proposal and his aunt. Elizabeth isn't the only one with embarrassing matchmaking relatives!
I think that's a very good point about Lady Catherine! I think somewhere in the text doesn't it say that Lizzie is pleased she isn't the only one to have a relative to blush for? It may come where Lady C so insultingly tells Lizzie she may play the pianoforte in the housekeeper's room where she would disturb no one. Ouch! The morality of Darcy's first proposal is iffy, I think. Yes, it would have been more polite not to mention all Lizzie's disadvantages (her vulgar family), but I wonder whether he was wondering whether Lizzie knew how vulgar they were, and so wanted to point it out to her? (!!) In a way he's 'setting out his stand' for her?
In a way, I would say his greater crime was in assuming that Lizzie would 'of course' accept his proposal - simply because he was the very rich Mr D and she was the impecunious Miss B.
I think Darcy says what he does in the first proposal because Elizabeth is not a real person to him: she exists only in his mind, where he can turn her into whatever he desires. He’s basically having a conversation with himself. Only when she rebuffs him, and in terms designed to cut him to the quick, does he begin to see her as a real human being (after getting over being mad, of course). At least he has the capacity to learn to see who she is and value her all the more! I’ve known more than a few who can’t get past the dethroning of the two-dimensional image of their own creation—or who prefer the person inside their imagination to the real one. A lot of folks struggle to accept the agency of others!
I saw an argument once (here or in an article online, I can't remember) that Darcy or the person(s) upon whom his character was based might have Asperger's syndrome, which I think is a valid consideration. They likely would have just chalked it up to rich people whims and eccentricities in Austen's time.
Abigail wrote: "I think Darcy says what he does in the first proposal because Elizabeth is not a real person to him: she exists only in his mind, where he can turn her into whatever he desires. He’s basically havi..."That's an interesting observation. I hadn't thought of that.
I don't buy the argument Darcy has Aspergers. He's rude and snobbish plain and simple. His Myers-Briggs personality type is INTJ- he's very rigid. I don't get along with him because we're too much alike LOL! We have the same personality type and we would clash big time. Mr. Darcy's personality type revealed
Lizzie is an ENFJ according to the study. (I participated in the study, taking the test for Mrs. Bates and Frank Churchill).
If Darcy is ISTJ, which I guess I could see to some extent, that doesn't make him purposely rude and snobbish. He's just stating facts as he sees/experiences them. In practice, he wouldn't understand why Elizabeth took so much offense to simply stating the facts of his proposal. Something to consider! Thanks for the article!
Abigail wrote: "I think Darcy says what he does in the first proposal because Elizabeth is not a real person to him: she exists only in his mind, where he can turn her into whatever he desires. He’s basically havi..."Fascinating. Never thought of that. Instead, I felt he reacts to her - which is probably part of his charm to millions of female readers - very emotionally... but still, he fights it. I sense that the struggle he mentions is real, between what he feels he owes to his position in society (to choose/chuse someone well-connected and rich) and his inclination - to choose someone who intrigues him.
Abigail wrote: "Sounds more like Dickens, but it can’t be denied that Mr. Collins apologizes a lot in Pride and Prejudice! I can’t think of anyone in S&S who does."Uriah Heep? Nobody in Jane Austen, anyway.
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It might not have been an Austen character. But I feel like it was!