2021 TOB Longlist

[Risa]

Oh, yes! I forgot - I also read Real Life and Such a Fun Age. The latter I thought was ... overpraised ... and the former I thought much more highly of than Phyllis did, though angst-ridden, it surely was. Racist aggressions -- both macro and micro -- will do that to a person.

[Simms]

I have read:

The Glass Hotel - Thought it was okay. Not particularly memorable, but she'll always be compared against Station Eleven and that's a hard act to follow.
Hamnet - Superb. I liked this better than anything on the shortlist except Piranesi and am very disappointed it didn't make it in.
My Dark Vanessa - Pretty good.
The Searcher - Good, but not as good as some of French's others.
Such a Fun Age - A lot of fun.
Untamed Shore - Meh. Suffers from the reader being able to figure out things way before the protagonist and then sitting there agonizingly waiting for the protagonist to wise up.

[Isaac]

So far I’ve read:
Apeirogon *****
Barcelona Days **
Barn 8 ****
Black Sunday ****
A Burning ***1/2
The Cactus League ***
Cleanness ***
Crossings ****
The Death of Vivek Oji *****
Docile **
Earthlings ***
The Enlightenment of the Greengage Tree ****
Exciting Times ***
Four by Four ****
Hamnet *****
The Knockout Queen *****
The Night Watchman ****
Such a Fun Age ***
Topics of Conversation **
Untamed Shore ***
Valentine ****
Any of the 4-5 star books would have been worthy of the shortlist, though I’m most disappointed The Death of Vivek Oji, Hamnet, and The Knockout Queen didn’t make it. Apeirogon might just be one of my favorite books ever, but it’d be so hard to judge the experience of reading it against anything else, so I understand its exclusion, as much as I loved it.

[Shannon]

The Death of Vivik Oji is my favorite of all that I have read for this year’s tournament. Disappointed it didn’t make the short list , but am (mostly) enjoying reading the ones that did.

[Isaac]

Shannon wrote: "The Death of Vivik Oji is my favorite of all that I have read for this year’s tournament. Disappointed it didn’t make the short list , but am (mostly) enjoying reading the ones that did."
Me, too, with one exception that I've already been pretty vocal about. I'd actually say it's a better selection overall than last year's, but there must be a bad apple in every batch, I suppose.

[Risa]

Isaac wrote: "Shannon wrote: "The Death of Vivik Oji is my favorite of all that I have read for this year’s tournament. Disappointed it didn’t make the short list , but am (mostly) enjoying reading the ones that..."

Agree with you, Isaac -- I liked this year's shortlist better than last year's.

[Lauren]

Long list favorites that I've read:
-The Knockout Queen
-Apeirogon
-The Night Watchman

(I read a bunch more, but didn't love those. Probably disliked True Love and Barcelona Days the most.)

Wow, the rest of my favorites made the short list - that's lucky!

Still excited/planning to read:
-Afterlife
-A Burning
-The Death of Vivek Oji
-Dominoes at the Crossroads
-The Enlightenment of the Greengage Tree
-Real Life
-Ring Shout
-trans(re)lating house one

[Ruthiella]

I've read and appreciated

- Djinn Patrol on the Purple Line
- The Glass Hotel
- My Dark Vanessa
- Network Effect
- The Night Watchman
- Such a Fun Age

I DNF-ed These Violent Delights.

And I am currently reading Kim Jiyoung, Born 1982.

And certainly there are a few more that I will get to eventually. It's a pretty good reading list to pick and choose from, for sure.

[Kyle]

Oh yeah, I did read Such a Fun Age - felt like something Reese Witherspoon would produce as a tv series.

I still have Night Watchman, Apeirogon, and Long Bright River picked up during some kindle sales near the end of the year, so I'm looking forward to those. Definitely have my eye on Hamnet, Knockout Queen, and Death of Vivek Oji, but I'll save those for after the tournament.

Oh, and library holds still out on A Burning and Cold Millions.

[Bob]

Longlisters I loved (Ranked!)
Enlightenment of the Greengage Tree
Apeirogon
A Burning
Sisters
These Violent Delights
Earthlings
Kim Jiyoung, Born 1982
Ring Shout
Little Eyes

Read and were okay:
Glass Hotel
Pizza Girl
Real Life

Not a Fan:
The Disaster Tourist
Nightwatchman
Long, Bright River
Temporary

[Risa]

Kyle wrote: "Oh yeah, I did read Such a Fun Age - felt like something Reese Witherspoon would produce as a tv series.

Kyle - Nailed. It. I'd forgotten I'd read it until someone else listed it among the longlist books they'd read. I am bracing for quite a few comparisons between it and "Luster" when we get to that bracket of the tournament.

[Elizabeth]

Risa wrote: "Kyle wrote: "I am bracing for quite a few comparisons between it and "Luster" when we get to that bracket of the tournament. "

Gosh, I hope not. This was a DNF for me (and I loved Luster.) As I was reading, I was sure the author must be white, and was shocked to see she wasn't...The stereotypes, the saviorism, this novel really bothered me.

[Risa]

Elizabeth wrote: "Risa wrote: "Kyle wrote: "I am bracing for quite a few comparisons between it and "Luster" when we get to that bracket of the tournament. "

Gosh, I hope not. This was a DNF for me (and I loved Lus..."

Same (although I did finish SaFL), and Same (re loving Luster). But I can tell you: it's. gonna. happen.

[Kate]

Risa wrote: "The Longlist looked amazing to me, so I plan to read most of it. The books I read that didn't make the shortlist cut were Barn 8, Clap When You Land, Glass Hotel, and The Night Watchman. Of these, ..."

Phyllis, I just got Crossings from the library and am trying to figure out which way to read it. What would you recommend?

[Nadine in California]

Kate wrote: "Phyllis, I just got Crossings from the library and am trying to figure out which way to read it. What would you recommend?."

And I'll add a question, Phyllis - I have an ebook ARC of Crossings, and sometimes these ARCs don't have the final formatting. Do you think formatting is important in this book?

[Phyllis]

Kate wrote: "... trying to figure out which way to read it. What would you recommend?"
Nadine wrote: "... Do you think formatting is important in this book?

For Crossings, my personal choice was to read it first from front to back (in which you get a stronger sense of the three separately written parts of the book), then for the second reading I did the Baroness sequence (which causes it to read more as a single unified novel). I'm glad that's the order in which I did the two readings of it.

I don't think formatting is of any real importance to the book. In the printed volume, there is a small "Cast of Characters" included at the back, which you might find helpful and may/may not be included in an ARC. I've never used an e-reader (I'm so old school), so I don't know whether they present any difficulties for a reader if trying to follow the Baroness sequence.

I hope you guys like this book as much as I did. It was hard for me to believe it was a debut novel.

[Gwendolyn]

Okay, this is a very dangerous conversation! I just added 5 more books to my TBR pile.

[Elizabeth]

Phyllis wrote: "I've never used an e-reader (I'm so old school), so I don't know whether they present any difficulties for a reader if trying to follow the Baroness sequence."

Reading the e-book makes the Baroness sequence much easier, I think, because they have a link to move between sections.

Phyllis, did the story (or feel of the story) change much between versions? I can't imagine how it could, but I'm so curious.

[Phyllis]

Elizabeth wrote: "... did the story (or feel of the story) change much between versions? I can't imagine how it could, but I'm so curious."

For me, Elizabeth, the two readings resulted in a very different feel to the overall story, but I can imagine that other readers might not have the same take-away. Obviously the words on the pages were exactly the same, so I know it seems strange that reading in a different order could make an actual difference. To me, the Baroness sequence read more like a tale of star-crossed lovers, who met & spent only a total of 7 days together, but whose story encompasses worlds. The page 1 to end reading was much more of a mystery, with the three separate stand-alone parts of the book. I literally read it each way back-to-back, and I was kind of astonished that the different reading order made such a difference to me at a time when the story was completely fresh in my mind.

[Kip]

Nadine wrote: "Kate wrote: "Phyllis, I just got Crossings from the library and am trying to figure out which way to read it. What would you recommend?."

And I'll add a question, Phyllis - I have an ebook ARC of ..."

I read an ebook ARC and it did have the links to the next sequence in the baroness sequence. At least mine did!

[Kyle]

Elizabeth wrote: "Risa wrote: "Kyle wrote: "I am bracing for quite a few comparisons between it and "Luster" when we get to that bracket of the tournament. "

Gosh, I hope not. This was a DNF for me (and I loved Lus..."

I will say that by the end the "saviorism" is effectively skewered, and the white mom character is generally shown to be... well, not the villain of the text, but certainly not quite as wonderful as she thinks she is.

[Nadine in California]

Kyle wrote: "I will say that by the end the "saviorism" is effectively skewered..."

What a great teaser line for me - now I'm really excited to read it :)

[Isaac]

Risa wrote: "I am bracing for quite a few comparisons between it and "Luster" when we get to that bracket of the tournament.."

My one-line summation of this is that, for me, Luster was the better version of the book that Such a Fun Age seemed like it wanted to be. I definitely enjoyed it more.

[Phyllis]

Isaac wrote: "Risa wrote: "I am bracing for quite a few comparisons between it and "Luster" when we get to that bracket of the tournament.."

My one-line summation of this is that, for me, Luster was the better ..."

And so it begins, as Risa predicted. I thought I was going to be able to resist this, but turns out I can't.

For me, these two books -- Such a Fun Age and Luster -- are not the least bit comparable. For me, they are about entirely different things. I understand both are about a young black woman in early adulthood, and I understand both involve a young black woman's interactions with a slightly older white couple, and I understand both involve to some extent the young black woman's interactions with the couple's child/ren. But to me, the story in each of these novels is about the young black woman, and I find the stories of the two protagonists to be entirely different. These two young women are very different people from each other, in very different circumstances from each other, with very different origins and trajectories.

I don't quite see how these two novels are any more comparable than any other two novels about young adults striving to make their way in the world. Once we go down that road, doesn't it lead to a comparison also with Real Life and Memorial and Transcendent Kingdom and Interior Chinatown and Sharks in the Time of Saviors, just to name a few from this year's list?

[Lauren]

Phyllis wrote: "Isaac wrote: "Risa wrote: "I am bracing for quite a few comparisons between it and "Luster" when we get to that bracket of the tournament.."

My one-line summation of this is that, for me, Luster w..."

I also don't find these books to be too comparable (other than the surface aspects you mentioned). They employ different writing styles, tones, etc. and I think they grapple with different elements of racism, tackling the themes in different ways.

[Jenny (Reading Envy)]

Elizabeth wrote: "As I was reading, I was sure the author must be white, and was shocked to see she wasn't...The stereotypes, the saviorism, this novel really bothered me.."

DNFing is okay, always. But I do think the saviorism at least is supposed to bother the reader, that's the whole point....

[Isaac]

Every book is comparable to every other book. That seems like one of the main points of the Tournament. Comparing Luster to Such a Fun Age and Real Life and Memorial and Transcendent Kingdom and Interior Chinatown and Sharks in the Time of Saviors? Why not? What's so wrong about that? Maybe I only read things on a surface level, but the fact that Luster shares several story beats with SaFA seemed significant to me. I only wish I'd known I was stepping on a sore spot when I said what I said.

[Phyllis]

Isaac wrote: "Every book is comparable to every other book. That seems like one of the main points of the Tournament. Comparing Luster to Such a Fun Age and Real Life and Memorial and Transcendent Kingdom and In..."

Oh, Isaac, I don't think you stepped on a sore spot. Aren't we all just talking here, sharing thoughts & views? Everyone's ideas are (at least to me) as welcome as can be! And I've never found your views to be superficial or merely surface level.

[Jenny (Reading Envy)]

Isaac wrote: "Every book is comparable to every other book. That seems like one of the main points of the Tournament. Comparing Luster to Such a Fun Age and Real Life and Memorial and Transcendent Kingdom and In..."

Phyllis wrote: "For me, these two books -- Such a Fun Age and Luster -- are not the least bit comparable. For me, they are about entirely different things. I understand both are about a young black woman in early adulthood, and I understand both involve a young black woman's interactions with a slightly older white couple, and I understand both involve to some extent the young black woman's interactions with the couple's child/ren. But to me, the story in each of these novels is about the young black woman, and I find the stories of the two protagonists to be entirely different. These two young women are very different people from each other, in very different circumstances from each other, with very different origins and trajectories. .."."

I do think the two books have the most in common with each other. Phyllis spells it out pretty well actually!

[Lauren]

Phyllis wrote: "Isaac wrote: "Every book is comparable to every other book. That seems like one of the main points of the Tournament. Comparing Luster to Such a Fun Age and Real Life and Memorial and Transcendent ..."

Jenny (Reading Envy) wrote: "Isaac wrote: "Every book is comparable to every other book. That seems like one of the main points of the Tournament. Comparing Luster to Such a Fun Age and Real Life and Memorial and Transcendent ..."

Same, my comment wasn't meant to put down anyone making the comparison. It's true that the tournament is an exercise in exactly that - comparing books. I think for me personally it was that SaFA and Luster don't feel like the same type of book. That's all - no hard feelings here!

[C]

Well, if it helps there was a virtual book discussion a few months ago including both Raven Leilani and Kiley Reid and they were both noticing how similar their books are. I think both books are worthy of reading! Very different but similar. Like some of you said, really any book can compare to another book if you're trying.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etz31...

[Gwendolyn]

I’m really enjoying this discussion, so thanks to you all for sharing views! I’ve read both Luster and Such a Fun Age, and I never made the connection in my head. But now that it’s been mentioned, I suppose I see some of the touch points. Has anyone read This Mournable Body? The book on last year’s Booker Prize shortlist? Now that’s the book that most compares to Luster, in my opinion. Similar tone and life situation (in some respects) of the protagonists.

[Phyllis]

Gwendolyn wrote: "I’m really enjoying this discussion, so thanks to you all for sharing views! I’ve read both Luster and Such a Fun Age, and I never made the connection in my head. But now that it’s been mentioned, ..."

Wow, Gwendolyn. I just finished This Mournable Body last week, and I definitely see where you're coming from. The protagonists in TMB and in Luster are both so very self-focused and selfish, and so very dismissive of other women. In both books, it seems like much of what made the protagonists what they are is the times in which they grew up, where in theory they were supposed to be able to /expected to succeed, but in practice so many doors remained shut to them or they were at least not taught the skills to open the existing doors.

[Gwendolyn]

Phyllis, yes to everything you mentioned, and also the tone of the two books felt similar. There was a certain disaffection and ennui. Which of the two did you like better? I think I have to go with This Mournable Body because of that fantastic last scene (which saved the book for me). Luster seemed lackluster (Ha ha) in the end.

[Phyllis]

Gwendolyn wrote: "Phyllis, yes to everything you mentioned, and also the tone of the two books felt similar. There was a certain disaffection and ennui. Which of the two did you like better? I think I have to go wit..."

Gwendolyn, that is a really tough choice for me. If forced to choose, I think I "liked" Luster better, but primarily because her U.S. circumstances are more familiar to me and the first person narrative voice felt like things were happening to her (rather than to me). The second person narrative voice in This Mournable Body felt so accusatory in many ways, as if I was personally to blame for what was occurring, that it took me some getting used to, and of course Zimbabwe and its culture are not as familiar to me and so reading went more slowly because it took me longer to process the meaning of things. I really enjoyed both of these books.

[Jan]

Phyllis wrote: "Gwendolyn wrote: "Phyllis, yes to everything you mentioned, and also the tone of the two books felt similar. There was a certain disaffection and ennui. Which of the two did you like better? I thin..."

I found Luster an easier read because the writing and setting felt more familiar, but I greatly admired This Mournable Body and found it compelling and important. I read the first two volumes of Dangarembga's trilogy before tackling TMB and was glad I had that background with the protagonist. It made it easier to sympathize and understand her. I was rooting for TMB to take the Booker as a way to honor the trilogy, and the win for Shuggie Bain kind of left me with a chip on my shoulder toward poor Shuggie. I know my response is silly and unworthy, but such are the vagaries of book love. :-)

[Gwendolyn]

Jan, I have heard that reading the first two books in the trilogy makes for a better reading experience for This Mournable Body. I doubt I’ll find the time to do it, but it sounds like a great idea.

Phyllis, I agree about the foreign setting of This Mournable Body. It did make for a slower reading experience, but I liked that aspect. The unusual setting (to me) was a positive point for the book. And I had almost forgotten about the second person POV. What an usual choice.

[Phyllis]

Jan wrote: "...I read the first two volumes of Dangarembga's trilogy before tackling TMB and was glad I had that background with the protagonist. It made it easier to sympathize and understand her. I was rooting for TMB to take the Booker as a way to honor the trilogy, ..."

Yes! I immediately purchased the first two books of the trilogy. I wish I had read them first, but will do so as quickly as possible. I understand Nervous Conditions to be a classic of African literature, and I'm more than a little embarrassed that I've not read it since it was published in 1988 -- so many books, so little time, I'm reading as fast as I can.

[Amy]

Hamnet just won the National Book Critics Circle Award for fiction for all the fans here!

[Jenny (Reading Envy)]

Hey hey hey, I am still working on the longlist from time to time. I found the audio version of My Dark Vanessa in Hoopla and even though I would normally avoid stories of abuse, I will say that if you can stomach it, this book is pretty incredible. Part of it is because the author shows so well how the student thinks, how naive she is, while also showing that the teacher is grooming and manipulating her. Phew.

I listened to an interview with the audiobook narrator which was *fascinating* (it's at the end of the audiobook at least in Hoopla, recommended) - the book is written in a style where it goes back and forth between Vanessa in high school and Vanessa as an adult. She recorded the sessions in linear form, all the parts in her younger voice first, etc. What a great idea! And she demonstrates the difference which maybe I didn't notice in the book but now that she gives examples I was like, wow, those really were different, and how effective that was in helping me locate myself inside the book.

I think it's interesting that this is a story about a woman who *doesn't* come forward written in an era where so many were... I know the author intends for this to be a conversational book (and maybe controversial) and there really is a lot to unpack. I think it would have been interesting in the tournament (and until reading it, I would not have thought so.)

[Risa]

Thanks for this, Jenny. That one is in my TBR pile, though I’ve some trepidation about reading it. Your review is encouraging.

[Kyle]

Night Watchman got the Pulitzer today. Haven't read it yet, though I love Erdrich, so I'll have to get on that.

Hamnet was beautiful but heartbreaking. I am not one for the "dead kid" theme, as a dad, so reading that along with one of the TOF finalists was a little trying...

[Janet]

Kyle wrote: "Night Watchman got the Pulitzer today. Haven't read it yet, though I love Erdrich, so I'll have to get on that."

That was surprising to me. I liked it but didn't love it. Sometimes I think prizes are awarded more for theme than quality of writing. You have to be on the right topic at the right time.

[Risa]

Agreed. It’s not my favorite of her works. She’s great but I didn’t think this hung together well as a novel.

I was really hoping Percival Everett would get his long overdue reward. “Telephone” was a much more affecting novel than “Night Watchman” IMO. I’m grateful that “Telephone” was at least selected as a finalist, and I hope that caused more people to become acquainted with this talented author.

[Ellen]

Yes, I liked it well enough, but to me, Round House and LaRose were much better. AND Telephone.