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Weekly TLS > What Are We Reading? 16 Nov 2020

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message 201: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments Tam wrote: I recommend Heimat by Edger Reitz, especially the earliest one of the series.

Another Heimat enthusiast, eh? It brings back memories... the first series (and the best - you're right) actually got a brief cinema release in Paris. When I told my then heavily pregnant wife that we were going to see a 16h film, she definitely thought I'd gone crazy... though the distributors kindly cut it into just-about manageable 4h sessions (with interval), for which you could buy a season ticket. By the end, we were on nodding terms with a few fellow enthusiasts (almost wrote 'travellers', but not quite).

Who could not warm to the roguish Glasisch? An unforgettable character.

(Oh, it's 'Edgar' by the way... 'edger' sounds like something to do with lawns, not that I'd know anything about that. A typo, I'm sure!)


message 202: by Magrat (new)

Magrat | 203 comments Thinking about TLS, and the Guardian:
I want to scream and scream and scream!


Shouldn't that read "thcream and thcream and thcream until I'm sick"?


message 203: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments Tam wrote:... in a vacuum no one can hear your scream I guess

Ah, Alien! Up to a certain point, I'd use this reference to introduce this experiment to students:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce7AM...

However, after a while the tag-line meant nothing to a younger generation, so had to be ditched.

Here's the poster - which refers to 'space' rather than the more scientific 'vacuum', of course:

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/44156...


message 204: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments CCCubbon wrote: "in non-pandemic times MrC plays bowls and I watch sometimes, it is a very strategic game - ( I get it explained at length) but mainly I just make cakes for the teams"

A victim of gender stereotyping? Surely not, CCC!


message 205: by Alan (new)

Alan Bell | 21 comments Pomfretian wrote: "Last week I said that I was dipping in and out of three seasonal/nature books. Well I've now finished [book:Into the Tangled Bank

Thanks for the Parikian recommendation. Enjoyed his birdwatching book, although I've never done any birding (sic).



message 206: by Bill (new)

Bill FromPA (bill_from_pa) | 1791 comments Gladarvor wrote: "Bill wrote: "My apologies, Gladarvor, if I’m misremembering or misrepresenting your citizenship or residence, but I believe you live in and are a citizen of France, n’est pas?"

No, and yes."


Thanks for the correction. Just out of curiosity: Is the name Bill Maher familiar to you? (If not, please note that this is not a recommendation that you seek out his show.) If so, I suspect that if I keep asking, it may well turn out that you know of US political comedian-commentators that I've never heard of.

How about right-wing and right-fringe people like Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Laura Ingraham, and Alex Jones? In other words, how much of our toxic garbage makes it into your media feed? (Reversing the flow, Nigel Farage did some stumping for Trump over here in the past, but he doesn't seem to have made that much of an impression on the faithful - doesn't have that Elmer Gantry revival preacher punch.)


message 207: by MK (new)

MK (emmakaye) | 1795 comments Magrat wrote: "Thinking about TLS, and the Guardian:
I want to scream and scream and scream!

Shouldn't that read "thcream and thcream and thcream until I'm sick"?"


I looked today and didn't see the link to the final week. The viewing time is over, and the dirt is now piled high.


message 208: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments Magrat wrote: "Thinking about TLS, and the Guardian:
I want to scream and scream and scream!

Shouldn't that read "thcream and thcream and thcream until I'm sick"?"


Haha! beat you to it - see my comment (no. 270)!


message 209: by Alan (new)

Alan Bell | 21 comments Machenbach wrote:
'Morocco' is a particularly tough, dyeable (is that a word), and attractively grained form of leather (goatskin)

We certainly do get around
Like Webster's Dictionary we're Morocco bound

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIjvs...



message 210: by Magrat (new)

Magrat | 203 comments MK wrote: "Magrat wrote: "Thinking about TLS, and the Guardian:
I want to scream and scream and scream!

Shouldn't that read "thcream and thcream and thcream until I'm sick"?"

I looked today and didn't see ..."


You only beat me to it because I was messing around trying to edit the original comment - the old TLS was so much easier in this regard.


message 211: by Magrat (new)

Magrat | 203 comments scarletnoir wrote: "Magrat wrote: "Thinking about TLS, and the Guardian:
I want to scream and scream and scream!

Shouldn't that read "thcream and thcream and thcream until I'm sick"?"

Haha! beat you to it - see my ..."


MK wrote: "Magrat wrote: "Thinking about TLS, and the Guardian:
I want to scream and scream and scream!

Shouldn't that read "thcream and thcream and thcream until I'm sick"?"

I looked today and didn't see ..."


You only beat me to it because I was messing around trying to edit the original comment - the old TLS was so much easier in this regard.


message 212: by Magrat (new)

Magrat | 203 comments Magrat wrote: "MK wrote: "Magrat wrote: "Thinking about TLS, and the Guardian:
I want to scream and scream and scream!

Shouldn't that read "thcream and thcream and thcream until I'm sick"?"

I looked today and ..."


Sorry, you got the reply intended for scarletnoir, illustrating my point the TLS was easier to use!


message 213: by Robert (new)

Robert | 1036 comments Machenbach wrote: "Gladarvor wrote: "And so I have finally allowed myself to watch The West Wing again (seems I am not the only one https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-ra......"

You're one ahead of me. I haven't even watched a West Wing clip. I may go to my grave never having seen this program. However, I have been catching up on "Green Acres"....


message 214: by CCCubbon (new)

CCCubbon | 2371 comments Scarlet wrote, A victim of gender stereotyping? Surely not, CC
Yep .......but I like making cakes.


message 215: by Paul (new)

Paul | 1 comments Justine wrote: 'I learned, when I left the States that everyone is obsessed with America"

That's the truth, sad to say. Most Italians came name more Senators from the USA than from their own country (due at least in part to their voting system). I have regular conversations with irate Italians saying "____ what is your country doing to my life" everytime a President of any type makes a press release. It's like being a pre-school teacher, which I don't hesitate to tell them


message 216: by CCCubbon (new)

CCCubbon | 2371 comments ago
Paul | Justine wrote: 'I learned, when I left the States that everyone is obsessed with

This was not always true here in the UK. It has become more marked since the media explosion on our tv screens and many of our newspapers seem obsessed with American politics. There seems to develop a kind of love/hate relationship, people may envy the lifestyle depicted on our screens, feel uneasy at the swamping of our own culture. To give a very small example, Halloween was never celebrated much until the last few years, maybe simply witches’ tales but now the shops are full of costumes etc. etc., marketing extraordinary, not known when my children were young.
It’s a bit like that person at school who has everything, the latest in gadgets, the fashionable clothes, the hangers on, when you have little, not the person but what they seem to have. It is only with maturity that it is realised that they have their fears, worries, longings, too, and perhaps they, in secret envy something that you have.


message 217: by Paul (new)

Paul | 1 comments Even here in Italy, I've seen the gradual overtake of Italian news/tradition to become more homogenized American. But with the caveat taht homogenized American is very often everything and everyone. 15 years ago if I was looking for a decent hamburger my choices were McDonalds and McDonalds. Now, you can find a decent bahn mi, topnotch ramen, fantastic burger and decent empanada. I think it's generally that, as an outsider, European countries were very insular and monochromatic and closed-off, Italy particularly so. As they've opened up, more space is being created for other cultures to actually integrate (as a foreigner, this has not been possible in Europe, assimilation was the requisite). I don't know the situation in the UK, or why they'd need to roll in the muck of US politics when their own politics are clownish at best. There seems to be a media-driven distraction, constantly misdirecting, saying "look over there!"


message 218: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments Magrat wrote: Sorry, you got the reply intended for scarletnoir, illustrating my point the TLS was easier to use!

Fair enough - another insomniac, then? I wonder how many others will spot the reference...

You could make life easier for yourself by editing your posts - it's possible in GR, one of the things that's actually better about it - rather than having several goes to say what you mean! @Gladarvor has posted a few comments explaining how to do this... if you have problems, you could send me a message (see 'envelope' symbol at the top) and I'll try to advise... it took me a few goes to get the hang of it.


message 219: by Magrat (new)

Magrat | 203 comments scarletnoir wrote: "Magrat wrote: Sorry, you got the reply intended for scarletnoir, illustrating my point the TLS was easier to use!

Fair enough - another insomniac, then? I wonder how many others will spot the refe..."


I'm not an insomniac! This is the far side of the world, it was only four hours ago, late afternoon. At the moment it's 8:45 pm.

Thanks for the offer of help. I think I'm getting the hang - today was really one of those I've just washed my brain and I can't do a thing with it days, probably due to my hay fever...


message 220: by Justine (new)

Justine | 549 comments CCCubbon wrote: " ago
Paul | Justine wrote: 'I learned, when I left the States that everyone is obsessed with
This was not always true here in the UK. It has become more marked since the media explosion on our tv ..."


Yes, the obsession has become much more marked, but believe me it was always there, at least in London from the early 1970s. There was a spoken contempt for what was judged as American lack of culture, and yet everyone rushed out to see the latest Hollywood movie in a way they didn't to the latest British one. And took up each new, previously derided, import such as burgers, and eventually McDonald's, with enthusiasm. Everyone had an opinion about US politics - the Vietnam War. Watergate - while being extra-sensitive at any American comment about Ireland or the Empire. The 'special friendship' - a term virtually unknown in he US - was frequently mentioned, as were other misconceptions such as that Britain was America's 'oldest ally'. (where the truth is the opposite). I'm not putting down the British here: my own dire ignorance was, and still continues to be, exposed all the time. Travel may broaden the mind, but it can also fool us into thinking we know more about other cultures than we do. That takes decades!


message 221: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6975 comments Alwynne wrote: "This is the only book I've come across on Walser Robert Walser: A Companion but it's a mostly quite dry, academic text..."

I'm a Walser fan and of Swiss lit (though its a fairly narrow field with Ramuz, Chessex, Constant, Durrenmatt,Frisch, Keller and Walser)
The Assistant by Walser is maybe his only regular novel and was the first i read of his, set by Lake Zurich, i think, its well worth a read


message 222: by Cabbie (new)

Cabbie (cabbiemonaco) | 104 comments I've just finished Where the Crawdads Sing (book club choice) and cannot believe the praise that it's received. The characters were clichéd, the descriptions uninformative (her lips were "shapely", he kissed "like a man"), elements of the plot that just weren't credible, stilted dialogue, and a lot of unnecessary repetition, just in case we didn't understand what the author was trying to say.


message 223: by CCCubbon (new)

CCCubbon | 2371 comments Justine wrote..... Paul wrote...
Yes it has certainly become more marked since the seventies and the impression that we get of another culture may well be false. I became embroiled in an argument in Australia ( visitedthree times) , found the way that the Aboriginal people were talked about was more than I could tolerate, but think this was maybe just the attitudes of the people that I was with and not the general population.
My three visits to Italy have left me with a sense of people proud of their history and didn’t notice any US influence but I don’t pretend to have any real idea.
Even moving to different parts ofthe UK can throw up surprising attitudes. I lived on the outskirts of north east London for many years before moving to a village in Somerset. We were amazed to have people say things such as ‘you must be glad to move away from all those riots ( they were happening in Brixton, miles away from where we were) . We tend to muddle happenings in tiny areas with large places, towns in US with States, individuals with populations and make false assumptions.


message 224: by Hushpuppy (new)

Hushpuppy Bill wrote: "Thanks for the correction. Just out of curiosity: Is the name Bill Maher familiar to you? (...)

How about right-wing and right-fringe people like Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Laura Ingraham, and Alex Jones?"


Yes. Yes, yes, yes and yes. I suspect a lot of forest dwellers here who are UK-based would be too, but in my lab, only a handful of people who are not American are actually aware of Stewart/Colbert/Maher/Oliver/Myers/Noah... The four others have had their names in the Guardian quite often over the years, so that's how I know of them (unfortunately).

France is much more immune to this American obsession than the UK in my experience. Presidential elections would be big news of course, but I doubt that the senate/house/governors system speak to many French people, let alone naming any of them (apart from Arnie, and maybe AOC)...

@Paul: 15 years ago if I was looking for a decent hamburger my choices were McDonalds and McDonalds. Now, you can find a decent bahn mi, topnotch ramen, fantastic burger and decent empanada. I think it's generally that, as an outsider, European countries were very insular and monochromatic and closed-off, Italy particularly so.

Ah! You haven't spent much time in France. You'd have had all of these and more 30 or 40 years ago already in the main big cities (well, ok, maybe not the empanadas). Of course, the biggest and more ubiquitous influences would come from ex-Colonies, so Maghreb, Equatorial African, Indian Ocean, Caribbean, South-East Asian, but there'd be excellent Japanese restaurants already in the 80s (my earliest memories), and before that, if I trust my parents.


message 225: by Hushpuppy (new)

Hushpuppy Alan wrote: "We certainly do get around
Like Webster's Dictionary we're Morocco bound

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIjvs..."


Well, I didn't know that song, but that's certainly on point!
We certainly do get around
Like a complete set of Shakespeare that you get
in the corner drugstore for a dollar ninety-eight
We're Morocco bound

Or, like a volume of Omar Khayyam that you buy in the
department store at Christmas time for your cousin Julia
We're Morocco bound



message 226: by Paul (new)

Paul | 1 comments Gladarvor wrote: "Ah! You haven't spent much time in France"


Oh no, I knew that. I've spent a lot of time in Paris, and southern France and the best food I ever had in Paris was at a Vietnamese restaurant. In that France was, and is, way ahead of the curve. Berlin was also somewhat expansive, but nowhere in Europe has approached the openness of France to foreign culture and tradition. Even in stodgy Nice you can get good food that is not obviouslly French. The rest of Europe, has really not caught up in that respect and it's reflective of the political climate in thiose areas where integration of foreigners is seen as a one-way street.

Which is why I always find it laughable when a European bemoans "Americanization" because what they're inevitably saying is "I fear change and all other peoples worry me." Which is pretty easy to find in Tennsyltucky, but not so much in Baltimore or San Diego


message 227: by Hushpuppy (new)

Hushpuppy Paul wrote: " Oh no, I knew that. I've spent a lot of time in Paris, and southern France and the best food I ever had in Paris was at a Vietnamese ..."

Phew! I see what you're saying about Americanisation, this too can bring its own cultural melting-pot (spam musubi though?! 😉). Even Hallowe'en tradition really owes to the Irish/Celtic, so that's simply bringing a bit more of Western Europe to the continent 👻.


message 228: by Hushpuppy (new)

Hushpuppy Where is @lorantffy/@Sandya? No post for the past 2 weeks... Thought of her when Alwynne described her reading of the Bloomsbury group as a 'brown woman', and again as they've announced the ban to be lifted on the Boeing 737 MAX, depending on each regulation agency.


message 229: by Georg (new)

Georg Elser | 991 comments AB76 wrote: I'm a Walser fan and of Swiss lit (though its a fairly narrow field with Ramuz, Chessex, Constant, Durrenmatt,Frisch, Keller and Walser)

You forgot Jean-Jacques Rousseau ;-)

Alwynne mentioned The Black Spider by Jeremias Gotthelf. It is a classic (and quite spooky, there is one thing you'll never forget).

You might be interested in Friedrich Glauser's Studer novels. More than crime fiction, although it is shelved under that heading.

Contemporary Swiss writers might not appeal to you. Still: there are Peter Bichsel and Franz Hohler.


message 230: by Georg (new)

Georg Elser | 991 comments "Alwynne wrote: "Another review as part of my reading for German Lit. Month Carl Seelig's Walks with Walser - don't know if there are any other [author:Robert Walser|16..."


I have dug out a book on Walser (mainly documents, photographs, faksimiles of letters...) to read the introduction again. It is an essay by Peter Hamm, who has compiled a number of Walser quotes substantiating the assumption that Herisau was more a refuge than a prison to him. Two are remarks about Hölderlin, most are from his work, in which the protagonists almost invariably were Walsers alter egos.

When he was admitted to Waldau he suffered from extreme anxiety and acoustic hallucinations. He would have liked to stay with his sister Lisa, but accepted that she had him admitted. In his second letter to her he told her his anxiety had gone, and that he wasn't surprised by that "because for the time being I do not write ('schriftstellere') here anymore."
His medical records from Herisau do not mention a diagnosis, just vague stuff like "typical stuporous catatonia" or "defective personality".
When Theodor Spoerri, a psychiatrist who had done some work on Georg Trakl and was therefore interested in Walser, interviewed him at length in 1954 he found Walser to be alert and confident. Iirc there is also nothing in Seeligs book hinting at a mental health problem that would warrant to keep Walser in Herisau against his will.

Regarding your question (what exactly did Seelig want from Walser): towards the end of his essay Hamm says (apologies for my clumsy translation):
"You would like to stand in front of him to protect him, so moving is his vulnerability, even a long time after his death."
I do not know whether Seelig felt that. But I am sure that many others did. And still do.


message 231: by Georg (new)

Georg Elser | 991 comments Alan wrote: "Georg wrote: " Skippy Dies by Paul Murray

I bought this book because it was only 50p and came with a 'Finalist for the National Book Critics Circle Award' recommendation.

I am not very interested..."




I am not one of the many intellectual heavyweights on this site, a newbie to book reviews, my English is not as good as I would wish it were. And I am a self-doubter by nature.

So: thank you for your kind words, they made me feel a bit more confident.

Did you read Machenbachs comment? He wasn't too impressed by the 3rd PM book. I'll go for the first one, on your and his recommendation.


message 232: by Miri (new)

Miri | 94 comments re Americanisation (and I'm bit of a notorious Americanophile to be fair), as a horror fan, I very much welcome Americanised Halloween's explosion in popularity in England (except costumes should be spooky as a requirement! nonspooky costumes are not welcome). That's a cultural import I can get behind.

re importing America's culture wars and grafting an American bipartisan angle onto all issues in the UK even when it doesn't fit, I'm less wild about that.


message 233: by Georg (new)

Georg Elser | 991 comments Paul wrote: "Gladarvor wrote: "Ah! You haven't spent much time in France"


Oh no, I knew that. I've spent a lot of time in Paris, and southern France and the best food I ever had in Paris was at a Vietnamese ..."


Paul wrote: "Gladarvor wrote: "Ah! You haven't spent much time in France"


Oh no, I knew that. I've spent a lot of time in Paris, and southern France and the best food I ever had in Paris was at a Vietnamese ..."


I hope you'll forgive me, but I find your analysis very superficial.

Foreign food, or restaurants offering it, comes with migrants.
Migrants into Europe tend to move to a country where they can speak the language already, because they were a colony, and/or where the job market is good for them.
You will not, therefore, find the culinary variety you find in France also find in Berlin. Germany, unlike France, had lost the few colonies it had over 100 years ago. Until very recently we had no migrants from the Maghreb, or the Middle East, very few from Asian countries (mainly Vietnamese in the ex-GDR). We had Italian, Greek, Turkish restaurants,

Which is why I always find it laughable when a European bemoans "Americanization" because what they're inevitably saying is "I fear change and all other peoples worry me."


Considering the inestimable contribution the US have made to the world in culinary terms that really sounds arrogant, condescending and ignorant.

Maybe I have misunderstood you. If that is the case I would be happy to be corrected.


message 234: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments Magrat wrote: "I'm not an insomniac! This is the far side of the world, it was only four hours ago, late afternoon. At the moment it's 8:45 pm.."

Ah - it was 03:30 here, when I wrote my comment... just goes to show the amazing reach of Ersatz TLS, no?

Glad to hear you are getting used to this new home... I find that everything takes a bit longer to learn as I get older, but I'm getting there for most things.


message 235: by Hushpuppy (last edited Nov 20, 2020 07:41AM) (new)

Hushpuppy Alwynne wrote: "I'm not convinced that being open to cuisines from a variety of cultures means anything in and of itself"

I think we agree to some extent, but just like for our disagreement on the mass appeal of books and films on the Holocaust, I'd argue that this represents again a 'foot in the door'. More representation of other cultures, more exposure and interaction for those who enjoy going to such restaurants to people who are first or second generation immigrants, more awareness of e.g. Aïd el-Kebir, etc.

I think you were a sometime lurker at TLS, so you may be aware of @auroreborealis. He made some excellent posts on the problem of the (North) Parisian suburbs under an article on La Haine (read threaded: https://www.theguardian.com/film/2020...)


message 236: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6975 comments Alwynne wrote: "Georg wrote: "AB76 wrote: I'm a Walser fan and of Swiss lit (though its a fairly narrow field with Ramuz, Chessex, Constant, Durrenmatt,Frisch, Keller and Walser)

You forgot Jean-Jacques Rousseau ..."


yes,,,Gotthelf's "The Black Spider is great


message 237: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6975 comments Georg wrote: "AB76 wrote: I'm a Walser fan and of Swiss lit (though its a fairly narrow field with Ramuz, Chessex, Constant, Durrenmatt,Frisch, Keller and Walser)

You forgot Jean-Jacques Rousseau ;-)

Alwynne m..."


thanks Georg, i will have a look at the Studer novels, i forgot to mention Peter Stamm of the modern authors....


message 238: by Lljones (new)

Lljones | 1033 comments Mod
Machenbach wrote: "Pleased to see that progress is already being made on the Presidential Library of the 45th president: https://djtrumplibrary.com/"

That.Is.Hilarious.


message 239: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6975 comments GLAUSER:
Top recommendation Georg! Totally new to me, wow, i'm, excited and its in translation and print...win...win...win

I have a Durrenmatt lined up for mid dec but might move Glauser into the frame....


message 240: by MK (new)

MK (emmakaye) | 1795 comments Alan wrote: "Pomfretian wrote: "Last week I said that I was dipping in and out of three seasonal/nature books. Well I've now finished [book:Into the Tangled Bank

Thanks for the Parikian recommendation. Enjoyed..."


About birding, I closest I've come to doing that is while I sit right here in front of the screen. In the spring each year I watch the peregrine chicks that hatch and grow up so quickly at Norwich Cathedral. They hatch in March as little white fluffs, progress through all the growing up stages, and by June they are flying off this very high nest. If you find yourself with nothing to do at that time of year, you might bookmark - https://hawkandowltrust.org/. A warning though, watching can be addictive!


message 241: by FrancesBurgundy (new)

FrancesBurgundy | 319 comments Georg wrote: "I am not one of the many intellectual heavyweights on this site, a newbie to book reviews, my English is not as good as I would wish it were. And I am a self-doubter by nature."

Georg, your review was in perfect English (I can’t believe it’s not your mother tongue) and it was as professional a review as those you see in print. You do not need to be a self-doubter where books are concerned.

And intellectual heavy weight or not, I think Skippy is actually quite a difficult book to appreciate – my two friends who gave up on it read ‘intellectual’ novels all the time, but couldn’t cope with Skippy.

I’ve read Paul Murray’s third book,The Mark and the Void. I know MB doesn’t like it and I was disappointed, but it wasn’t as awful as MB makes out. If I had the time and the inclination I’d re-read it, but apart from all the TBR books on the shelf I’d read Skippy Dies for a fourth time in preference!


message 242: by FrancesBurgundy (new)

FrancesBurgundy | 319 comments End of an era - Take Part has disappeared from the Guardian Books home page.


message 243: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6975 comments FrancesBurgundy wrote: "End of an era - Take Part has disappeared from the Guardian Books home page."

witness the Viner-filleting of the guardian culture pages.....whats next?


message 244: by Hushpuppy (last edited Nov 20, 2020 06:45AM) (new)

Hushpuppy Alwynne wrote: "Now I'm confused I was replying to Paul, or so I thought but thanks so much for the link. I had misgivings about the lines"

You're right! It was one of these 'Paul wrote: "Gladarvor wrote"', and only noticed the latter.

I don't know what to say. What you depict is not something I can relate to (posh white boys making jibes, etc.). Possibly there are two -intertwined- reasons this might not be the case in France. While we do have clear (rampant) racism exacerbated by financial downturn, I don't think there is as much as in England the misty eyes of yearning for the good old days of the colonial Empire. I don't know why that is, since we're still appalling at tackling these issues in e.g. history classes. Another thing, and possibly the most important one: there is no two-tier education system (although this has become eroded of late). So those white posh boys would not find themselves at Harrow or Eton but, by and large, in the same schools as the kids of the restaurant owners and waiters. Dunno really. This might tap into the same mechanisms described in this research that has shown that mixed schools (gender+SES) is just a very good idea (no fucking kidding). Here is my previous post with references to this research if you're interested: https://www.theguardian.com/books/boo... (from an interesting - long - mainly political/sociological thread).


message 245: by MK (new)

MK (emmakaye) | 1795 comments Paul wrote: "Even here in Italy, I've seen the gradual overtake of Italian news/tradition to become more homogenized American. But with the caveat taht homogenized American is very often everything and everyone..."

Your comparison of integrate and assimilate really stopped me. It's too bad that so many (here in the States) are so narrow-minded about newcomers and just know that they should be exactly like the natives from talking the language perfectly, to dressing 'like us', and of course be in our image a well. A sad commentary.

Today in France it appears to be a similar situation with (from my perspective) that Macron is being just plain racist.

Back in the dark ages of the '60s, I lived in Germany where, at that time, the government lured Turks to work because there weren't enough Germans to do all the jobs. Isn't it ironic that the owners of the German biotech firm behind one of the coronavirus vaccine are both of Turkish descent.

End of rant.


message 246: by Hushpuppy (new)

Hushpuppy MK wrote: "Today in France it appears to be a similar situation with (from my perspective) that Macron is being just plain racist."

He's not my favourite person by any stretch of the imagination, but what do you base your assessment of him on?


message 247: by Georg (new)

Georg Elser | 991 comments Alwynne wrote: I picked up the idea of schizophrenia from a review in the LRB btw
https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v40/n..


Couldn't access this article. I have found nothing, so far, to substantiate a diagnosis of schizophrenia.
But thank you for your remarks about Seeligs observations. Sent me on a wild goose chase I've only just started. What Seelig describes sounds like it might be late dyskinesia. A longterm, and usually irreversible, side effect of antipsychotic drugs.
Haloperidol, which is notorious for causing these SE came on the market in 1958. I can imagine it was used on all kinds of mental health problems then. Can you remeber when Seelig made his observations? Yesterday I thought I want to re-read Walks with Walser, now I think I must re-read it.

As to Gotthelf's Black Spider: I've read it in my late teens. A long time ago. So I couldn't recommend it nor could I not recommend it.


message 248: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments Machenbach wrote: "Pleased to see that progress is already being made on the Presidential Library of the 45th president: https://djtrumplibrary.com/"

Mach - that is absolutely brilliant - thanks for posting! I have already forwarded the URL to family and friends...


message 249: by Georg (new)

Georg Elser | 991 comments AB76 wrote: "GLAUSER:
Top recommendation Georg! Totally new to me, wow, i'm, excited and its in translation and print...win...win...win

I have a Durrenmatt lined up for mid dec but might move Glauser into the ..."


I'll feel guilty if you are disappointed!


message 250: by Paul (new)

Paul | 1 comments Georg wrote: ""
Well I don;'t know that you misunderstand me, rather that you cannot necessarily understand me. And that being a foreigner by choice, or differently by necessity, means that you by default have a different viewpoint on things than natives, and that seems to hold true regardless of in which country you live it would seem to me.
Transcending boundaries means shedding some prejudices, and challenging some assumptions by necessity. And that goes with your adopted country as well as your former country. Being an expat, rather than a tourist, gives you a unique viewpoint that seesm to difficult to come by otherwise. I know hundreds of expats, scientists all of them, and the event and process of growing into a new place changes them irrevocably.

So, fundamentally whether you agree with my views is not somethign i can necessarily control, however had I not moved across the ocean I would not have come to have these views. So, there's that..

On a further point:

-immigrants rarely move to a country where they speak the language. They move wherever they believe taht they can better the lives of their children (or themselves at times). That may indeed be the case with Indopakistani immigrants to the British Isles or Algerians inot France, but it certainly is not the norm of mass immigration.

-the idea that presence of immigrant derived food certainly indicates the presence of an immigrant-derived influence, and taht's my point. That said immigrant can have an influence on their surroundings by integrating into society. I do admit that the example is facile.

Case in point: try to find a kebab stand in central Siena (they're banned). Why? Because the large immigrant population in Siena (and throughout Italy to varying degrees) is forced to assimilate, not integrate. So, if you are a Syrian immigrant in Italy who wants to open a pizza stand (and I know a few) that's somewhat doable, if you're Algerian and want to open a tagine restaurant, it's maybe not quite so easy.

Like most large cities, Milan, Rome, Turin tend to be much further along in the integration of foreigners into the local society and this can even be seen in the manner in which children are taught in schools in Milan or 20 kilometers outside of Milan.


I'm not saying that the United States is a haven for open-acceptance from others, far from it actually and the past 20 years hve seen a tightening of acceptance in the name of nationalism. But until very recently, societies in the Americas were generally more capable of integrating foreign influence. At the culinary levels, lexical levels, architectural, music, language, etc etc etc.

I don;t think that that's the case anymore, the USA is really starting to look positively Europe-like in its ability to accept the dreaded OTHER, despite being all derived from others themselves. Most fairly recently. Likewise plenty of anti-immigrant violence has occurred in Britain, France, Germany, Italy, etc so no one place has reached a perfection of the equilibrium.


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