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Cinder (The Lunar Chronicles, #1)
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Our TMS Reads > Jan/Feb Book: Cinder, Chapters 1-7

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Hana b (tzveyah) | 164 comments Hey there! Please comment from Chapters 1-7, no spoilers please!


Alaina (lainybird) | 10 comments Ok dumb question. I've never been in a group like this so i'm not sure how any of this works.

How do we talk about it without spoilers ?

Do you mean just don't talk about anything passed Chapter 7 ?


Hana b (tzveyah) | 164 comments Alaina wrote: "Ok dumb question. I've never been in a group like this so i'm not sure how any of this works.

How do we talk about it without spoilers ?

Do you mean just don't talk about anything passed Chapte..."

yup! see the other headings under the Jan/Feb book folder, so if you read ahead and want to talk about it, go there (to the discussion to which you read ahead to). Or just go spoiler crazy in the Spoilers/Guesstulations discussion.


Lisa Pavia-higel | 68 comments So, do you feel like Cinder's world, and the inherent dehumanization of all cyborgs is well established? It felt to me that no justification was given. It was just part of the world. Usually in a dystopia, there is a rationale given for not liking a specific group of people. It struck me that androids seem less discriminated against in Cinder's world than cyborgs. Thoughts?


message 5: by Locuas (last edited Jan 21, 2015 12:10PM) (new)

Locuas | 47 comments Alaina wrote: "Ok dumb question. I've never been in a group like this so i'm not sure how any of this works.

How do we talk about it without spoilers ?

Do you mean just don't talk about anything passed Chapte..."

As Hana said, anything beyond chapter 7 is not allowe din this thread. so if you want to talk about chapter 8, you would need to go to the "Chapters 8-14" thread. if there is some sort of spoilers, the comment will be deleted or modified to avoid trouble.
jus tbe careful which thread you are in and everything will be fine :)


Alaina (lainybird) | 10 comments Lisa wrote: "So, do you feel like Cinder's world, and the inherent dehumanization of all cyborgs is well established? It felt to me that no justification was given. It was just part of the world. Usually in a d..."

I agree. I thought it was really strange since examples are given as to why some became cyborgs, work accidents and such. Get in a horrible accident, given a second change at life, but hated for the rest of it?

Androids I can understand them not hating because it is very clear that androids are owned, and not people. Maybe there is tension because cyborgs are almost half way between the two?


Lisa Pavia-higel | 68 comments Alaina,
I got that as well. I don't want to do a spoiler, but later we see that in even greater detail. The idea of a cyborg going from human to property overnight didn't really strike me as believable.

I can buy people being uneasy or uncomfortable with very enhanced people (think Major Motoko Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell), but to have government-sanctioned ownership of someone with cybernetic enhancements seems just outside of my suspension of disbelief. I mean at what point do the laws kick in? If you get a hip or knee replacement, does that count?

You make a great point on the tension coming from people's unease. I wish the author had done more to differentiate personal prejudice from sanctioned discrimination.


message 8: by Locuas (new)

Locuas | 47 comments From what i could guess, in the case of Cinder, a certain number of cyborgs also have been implanted stuff in their brains. Adri actually said "can you even understand love"?

so i would guess Cyborgs like Cinder are changed to the point were people think "they are not actually alive, their computers only simulate human reaction".

so i think there may be a differentiation between "human cyborgs" or people who only have advanced prosthetics, and people like cinder who also have stuff in their head and are considered already "dead".

Of course, this is a pretty messed up society if raising the dead to create servants is considered okay.


Lisa Pavia-higel | 68 comments Locuas,

You have a great point. But I am not sure if Cinder's world is that nuanced. Let's pick this back up in a few chapters (I finished the book and I'm not sure at what point the thing I have in mind happens). I'd be very interested in your thoughts.

I think I missed the place where they raised the dead...how did I miss that?


Alaina (lainybird) | 10 comments Is it raised the dead, or sort of on permanent life support ?


Alaina (lainybird) | 10 comments What does everyone think of the foreshadowing so far? Lisa you probably know the outcome, I've only read to chapter 7. I feel like the story of the moon colony wasn't the most subtle foreshadowing. Although I am enjoying the slow reveal of backstory.


message 12: by Locuas (new)

Locuas | 47 comments I say "raise the dead" but that would probably be more the social understanding of how this works than how this actually is(and because sometimes i like being dramatic).
"Permanent life support" would probably be more accurate.


message 13: by Bridgett (last edited Jan 22, 2015 09:10AM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Bridgett Ashley | 9 comments I agree with the weirdness of the cyborgs being owned/second class citizens. I mean, the cyborg enhancements are clearly legal, but if getting an new hand after my old one was torn off in an accident means my spouse or parent now owns me, why would I do it? Maybe there's a better explanation later, I've only read the first 7 chapters.

I agree with Alaina that the foreshadowing is rather heavy handed. Maybe it's a red herring?

(edited out something better off in the "guesstulations" thread)


message 14: by Locuas (new)

Locuas | 47 comments "this car looks like a pumpking" and i am like "really? are you really being this obvious? that doesn't even makes sense!" this book is not subte


message 15: by A (new) - rated it 4 stars

A Grayham | 15 comments Lisa wrote: "So, do you feel like Cinder's world, and the inherent dehumanization of all cyborgs is well established? It felt to me that no justification was given. It was just part of the world. Usually in a d..."

Unfortunately, I could see this kind of discrimination being justified by the masses. Cyborgs are an 'abomination of nature', if you will...and one that seems to be voluntary. A mutant can't help what their genetic makeup is...but one who had a workplace accident and underwent surgery for cybernetic implants/prosthetics is something you make a conscious decision about (granted, it’s a decision between living a life with functional limbs or ‘permanent life support’ and living a life without functional limbs or at all…).
Meyers makes is seem like being a cyborg is similar to those born of mixed race back when that was frowned upon. They were seen as outsiders, people who didn’t quite fit in with one or the other…and not only where they frowned upon but shunned because…they were a mix? In Chapter 1, Chang Sacha yells at Sunto, “ ‘Sunto, come here! I told you not to play so close to –‘ Sacha met Cinder’s gaze, knotted her lips, then grabbed her son by the arm and spun away.” To which Cinder mutters, “It’s not like wires are contagious.” Neither is being born half Caucasian and half Hispanic. Or any other mix. But people were treated in much the same manner. Andriods may be less discriminated against only because they are completely android or because they have a functional service, but a cyborg is an abhorrent melding of human and ‘driod. The reason is unclear why these people have such disgust toward cyborgs, but with our history of discrimination for the most inconsequential factors, it doesn’t seem like a very large leap to take, to me at least… :)


message 16: by Lisa (new) - rated it 2 stars

Lisa Pavia-higel | 68 comments Locuas, No worries. I'm a bit dramatic myself.

Bridgett-Yeah, I'd probably be "I'll go handless, thanks". :-)

As far as the foreshadowing, she's replacing her foot in the opening scene... the author kinda likes to hit us over the head with the Cinderella stuff quite a lot. I have read a few reviews saying the story would be more compelling without the Cinderella narrative so blatantly inserted. Curious to what you guys think on that.


Sheila You guys have brought up some really good points that have definitely gotten me thinking about this book a little more. my assumptions as to why Cinder is owned is that it might be the amount of her that is not human? I was also wondering is she uses the word owned because that's how she feels, rather than it being true? Adrian uses the word ward - so maybe they aren't actually owned... Cinder is just under age? I totally agree with people being weary of cyborgs just like they would have been of mixed races, etc way back when...


message 18: by Lisa (new) - rated it 2 stars

Lisa Pavia-higel | 68 comments A: Great points!


Sheila Adrian = Adri


message 20: by Locuas (new)

Locuas | 47 comments Sheila wrote: "You guys have brought up some really good points that have definitely gotten me thinking about this book a little more. my assumptions as to why Cinder is owned is that it might be the amount of he..."

I think Adri consider Cinder "Property". she mentions selling Cinder, mentions that Cinder does not know "love" and so on.


message 21: by Katie (new) - rated it 1 star

Katie Cunningham (kcunning) | 19 comments Lisa wrote: "So, do you feel like Cinder's world, and the inherent dehumanization of all cyborgs is well established? It felt to me that no justification was given. It was just part of the world. Usually in a d..."

I actually don't mind the lack of justification. I love it when books take their time revealing how the world came to be how it is. I abhor infodumps, especially since I tend to skim over them.


message 22: by Katie (new) - rated it 1 star

Katie Cunningham (kcunning) | 19 comments Alaina wrote: "What does everyone think of the foreshadowing so far? Lisa you probably know the outcome, I've only read to chapter 7. I feel like the story of the moon colony wasn't the most subtle foreshadowin..."

I hope that the story won't be a 1:1 mapping, and that there will be some inversions. I think there's already been a few, what with Cinder actually liking her step-sister, and the mother being much more nuanced.


message 23: by Lisa (new) - rated it 2 stars

Lisa Pavia-higel | 68 comments Katie:
How do you feel the stepmother is nuanced? I don't disagree, I just didn't see it on first reading.


message 24: by Katie (new) - rated it 1 star

Katie Cunningham (kcunning) | 19 comments Lisa wrote: "Katie:
How do you feel the stepmother is nuanced? I don't disagree, I just didn't see it on first reading."


The reasoning behind her resentment was more well laid out than in traditional Cinderella stories. Husband made a grandiose decision without consulting her. She ends up destitute (and without skills to support herself). She loses a daughter to a fatal plague. That could break someone. Usually, the step-mother is just seen as an interloper.


message 25: by Bachaboska (last edited Jan 22, 2015 02:29AM) (new) - rated it 1 star

Bachaboska | 10 comments Bridgett wrote: "if getting an new hand after my old one was torn off in an accident means my spouse or parent now owns me, why would I do it?"

That is what got me thinking as well...how that thing even works? Is there an amount of modifications that is allowed or immediately after procedure you are just a thing by law?
Also, why would I hate something that can save mine or my family's life? I can imagine some people hating cyborgs (some sort of "pro human" sect etc.) but not a law making them property...after all you never know if you won't be next to get some modification after an accident.
I do feel like the whole hating cyborgs thing was added just for Cynder's story sake and not as a part of actual word building.


message 26: by Katie (new) - rated it 1 star

Katie Cunningham (kcunning) | 19 comments Bachaboska wrote: "Bridgett wrote: "if getting an new hand after my old one was torn off in an accident means my spouse or parent now owns me, why would I do it?"

That is what got me thinking as well...how that thin..."


I feel like this part hasn't been fleshed out very much. I'm willing to wait and see how this whole system works. I'm beginning to wonder if it has to do with the brain mods. Maybe there's fear of them going mad, so they therefore have to have a legal guardian?


message 27: by Bridgett (last edited Jan 22, 2015 08:56AM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Bridgett Ashley | 9 comments Katie: I wouldn't say nuanced, nothing I've read so far would indicate this book is subtle or nuanced, but the stepmother is definitely more fleshed out than usual. And as for the stepsister that Cinder likes (Peony, if I remember correctly), ever since the Disney version, there is often one stepsister just like her evil mom, and one stepsister that is nicer and/or dumber (the movie Ever After, or The Fairy Godmother by Mercedes Lackey, for example). It think the author just takes it a bit further and makes them friends. Which is nice, I really appreciate Cinder not being completely friendless.

Bachaboska, I can totally see a "pro human" group, even a large and powerful one, making laws that disenfranchise the cyborgs (Jim Crow-esque), but out right ownership? I agree it feels tacked on. But again, I've only read the first 7 chapters, maybe it plays out more sensibly later in the book, or even the series.


message 28: by Hana (new) - rated it 3 stars

Hana b (tzveyah) | 164 comments Nina wrote: "What I don't get is at which point a society would start to view those with prosthetics as less human. I wonder how a feeling like that would come about as we ourselves usually celebrate every adva..."

Okay, first off. I just started giggling at the "Oh no that guys a robot now" comment. Just flat out loud giggled. Oh noes.

But to be serious. I wonder how much it is fear of being weaker than these parts we've worked so hard to create. It makes me think of the Olympics, where people who have prosthesis have to prove they're not making them "better" than "regular" humans. Now this does make sense, you don't want an unfair advantage. But I could see it having proliferated from this into everyday life- the exact opposite of having let people use these advanced parts of themselves bring themselves above/beyond others, instead using them to keep them down.

I'm just tossing that out there. And I really dig everyone's' comments on this book- I read all of them (books) when they came out and wasn't really impressed, but this has given it a lot more depth.


message 29: by A (new) - rated it 4 stars

A Grayham | 15 comments Nina wrote: "I also think that despite all the resentment Adri's decision to volunteer Cinder for testing is illogical. It was already proven that Cinder isn't infected so why would Adri actively get rid of her only source of income? How's she going to pay the bills now?
"


Well, Adri did just lose her youngest daughter to a plague Peony may have contracted from Cinder and/or the junkyard they were at (of course that's Cinder's fault, too...). So...I'm not sure how rational Adri's thinking would be after that. I think raw emotion seems to take over in those times and filters are thrown out the window. Everything she's ever felt against Cinder is now bubbling to the top, and now she has the perfect reason to get rid of her. As for income, the families get "compensated," so I would assume it would be enough that she and her remaining daughter could live comfortably and not have to work.

Also, as far as cyborgs becoming property...I don't remember that actually being said. I just assumed it was because Cinder is so young. For some reason, I thought she was 17, but after going back, I realized she's 18. Which is still young, but it's old enough in the United States to be out on your own and not the responsibility of your parents (then again, this is also taking place in the Eastern Commonwealth, so who knows what the rules are). After a little bit of further research, Adri seems to only be Cinder's legal guardian. "Ward", "legal guardian", and "under my guardianship" are several examples. I wouldn't say guardianship = property. At least, to me, guardianship implies that it's possible for Cinder to become independent - whereas property implies it's not possible. Or is that just me? Did I miss something?

Really enjoying all ya'lls comments so far :)


Effing (effingunicorns) A wrote: "Nina wrote: "I also think that despite all the resentment Adri's decision to volunteer Cinder for testing is illogical. It was already proven that Cinder isn't infected so why would Adri actively g..."

It's admittedly been a week since I read the first part of the book, but I don't remember any explicit statements of ownership either. I interpreted it (at least in Cinder's case) as the position some people get into where finances and guilt trips have tied you to a situation you could otherwise easily get out of, usually with older relative figures like Adri here. You might not actually be owned, but it sure feels like it sometimes.


Dominique | 18 comments A wrote: "Nina wrote: "I also think that despite all the resentment Adri's decision to volunteer Cinder for testing is illogical. It was already proven that Cinder isn't infected so why would Adri actively g..."

Yeah, I didn't get the idea that it was all Cyborgs that were "owned."


Dominique | 18 comments Lisa wrote: "So, do you feel like Cinder's world, and the inherent dehumanization of all cyborgs is well established? It felt to me that no justification was given. It was just part of the world. Usually in a d..."

I am sort of wondering if the anti cyborg thing is a relatively recent thing in the world of the book. Maybe using technology in this way was not always such a bad thing. Maybe something happened that has made people mistrust and think of cyborgs as less than human. (this might be an influence from reading other retellings like For Darkness Shows the Stars) Not that anything could make that right. I'll be interested to find out what if any explanation we get about that.


message 33: by Lisa (new) - rated it 2 stars

Lisa Pavia-higel | 68 comments I think the thing that made me think "property" is Adri's threats to sell Cinder.


message 34: by Megan (new) - rated it 1 star

Megan (candystripe_legs) | 39 comments So I got an ebook and my pages are formatted oddly, but on page 23 it says "But all arguments would come to nothing. Legally, Cinder belonged to Adri as much as the household android and so too did her money, her few possessions, even the new foot she'd just attached. Adri loved to remind her of that."

There definitely is a sense of ownership conveyed. It could be disenfranchisement, like how it used to be for women; all her income, her possessions, etc, legally belonged to her father or husband because a woman was a "part" of a man rather than a legal person. The book isn't explaining it so far, but it seems to be beyond guardianship/Cinder being a minor, because she can't legally keep her money.


message 35: by Hana (new) - rated it 3 stars

Hana b (tzveyah) | 164 comments Actually, yeah I went back to that sentence too. It seems very literal this explanation of ownership. Just like other household goods.


Effing (effingunicorns) Megan wrote: "So I got an ebook and my pages are formatted oddly, but on page 23 it says "But all arguments would come to nothing. Legally, Cinder belonged to Adri as much as the household android and so too di..."

Okay, yeah, that does make it pretty hinky then. But I guess if it's a future world with multiple functioning monarchies, a lot of questionable things are going down already on the legal history front...


message 37: by Megan (new) - rated it 1 star

Megan (candystripe_legs) | 39 comments Which makes me wonder why we're supposed to go gaga over a prince when he's probably part of the problem XD


Lorrs | 12 comments I'm liking it so far, even if it is a bit clunky at time (I,e. Pumpkin car and lunar colony foreshadowing). I'm curious about how Cinder ended up with cyborg enhancements in the first place and if Garan had more of a connection with her and that's why he wanted to adopt her.

I'm not too sure about Iko personality wise the fun quirky android just seems a bit off. I know it's so Cinder can have a friend but from what I can gather other androids are more about servitude. The differences between androids and cyborgs and how they are treated isn't well established at this point.


Effing (effingunicorns) But he's the charming Asian Princess Leia the media loves! How can we not like him? How?


message 40: by Sara (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sara | 46 comments I picture her more like Dot Matrix in Spaceballs. :-D


Holley | 21 comments Too small foot on the first page and a pumpkin car within the first few chapters. Ha! This book is not holding anything back.

She is only seventeen in the book, actually sixteen if you look at her medical info which says she was born November 29, 109 T.E. The press meeting mentioned in Chapter one states that it is August 126 T.E. That is just short of 17 correct?

Legally (and I mean real world legally), a minor's income actually belongs to her parents in most states in the U.S. Hypertechnically, a parent could demand the child's paycheck and dispose of it as they see fit, though that doesn't really prep a child for independence in a few years.

Several states have a process by which the child can be declared an emancipated minor and thus no longer under the control (or protection) of her parents. One of the criteria in most states is that the minor can support herself.

So it seems like this is a true guardianship (not ownership) in the typical sense due to Cinder's age. I do not think that the draft is related to the other cyborg laws mentioned, and it is not that unusual to have laws in conflict created at different times covering similar subject. And the draft appears to have a volunteer element in addition to being involuntary.

But seriously, there ought to be protections, or at least a process, to eliminate minors from the draft. Perhaps that is just another way to show what a disaster this society is.


Effing (effingunicorns) Aha, I thought I remembered her being a minor! Thanks for noting the dates.


message 43: by Ell (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ell Eastwood (ellociraptor) | 14 comments Finally I'm starting this book! Interesting comments so far, I definitely agree with you all that the Cinderella stuff (shoes, pumpkin car) isn't subtle at all, and the foreshadowing with the moon princess was just so obvious (just skip the paragraph where it's mentioned that the princess might have survived and - voila! - it's a lot less in your face). And the way I see it, Cinder is definitely owned by Adri because she quite literally sells her to science. It was a bit... yeah.

I kinda like the book, it's pretty fun (which isn't the right word I suppose), but the world building is pretty terrible. It took me too long to understand the difference between Cinder and Iko, and I'm still not sure whether Iko is supposed to look like a hobbit or like a robot? I like to think of her as the droid from the new Star Wars trailer, but I'm not sure that's right...

I know the book is only a few years old and set in the future, but the constant use of "net" makes me think 90s internet slang more than anything. That might just be me though.

Oh, well, onwards to chapter eight!


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