Our Mutual Friend - Dickens, 4thQ, Nov 'part 2'

[Valerie]

Hello friends - I hope you are enjoying Our Mutual Friend! I certainly am. The twist, the turns, the melodrama...... the villains - it's better than TV!

November is for Parts 8 to 14.

This time around, I made my own questions. Once again, I've tried hard not to post any spoilers.


1. We are getting to know Bella better in our ‘part 2’. Does your opinion change about her by the time you get to the end of Part 14?

2. What does Jenny Wren’s role appear to be in this novel?

3. There are a lot of ‘villains’ to choose from in this novel! Who do you find to be the most disagreeable? (not necessarily who Dickens wants us to think is the worst…. just the one that annoys you the most.)

4. What do you think of Dicken’s handling of Mr. Boffin’s character? Do you think his way of going about it was necessary for his audience?

5. Betty Higden plays an important role, in this part of our reading, regarding Dicken’s social commentary. How did her story affect you? Did her story make you reflect on contemporary, elderly women living in poverty, in your own country?

6. Is Lizzie Hexam too good to be true? Does that concern you as a reader (eg. I worry something bad will happen to her due to her being so nice!)?

7. I enjoyed Dicken’s sarcastic wit in our ‘Part 1’. In our ‘Part 2’ I found what may end up being my favorite turn of phrase from the book:

Part 11, Ch. 4 ‘A Happy Return of the Day’: (the scene is the anniversary dinner, George Sampson is sitting between Mrs Wilfer and Lavina and being assailed from all sides.)

‘If his mind for the moment reeled under them, it may be urged, in extenuation of its weakness, that it was constitutionally a knock-knee’d mind and never very strong on it’s legs.’

Were there any particular scenes or turns of phrase that caught your attention in this part of the novel?

[Valerie]

I thought this was an interesting point of view of Jenny Wren's character. It is a short article, and I don't see any spoilers.

http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/d...

I also read a pdf in relation to Betty Higden's character and the oppression of the poor vs personal pride. It seemed more like an essay rather than a critical analysis, so I didn't include the link. Suffice to say, there are a lot of analyses, essays, critiques, etc floating around about this novel.

[George P.]

I'm now on Part 3, chapter 14, "The Golden Dustman at His Worst", which is 71% through.
Bella's character seems much improved by this point, she is more self-critical. She seems to be genuinely nice to Lizzie in their scene together and much nicer to "Mr Rokesmith".
I don't know how to describe Jenny Wren's (the Doll's dressmaker) role at this point. She is quite nasty to her alcoholic father but I've found her hostile dialog towards Wrayburn pretty amusing. BTW didn't there used to be a game show host named Gene Rayburn?
A lot of people are trying to separate Mr Boffin from some of his money, so he does need a certain amount of suspicion, but he has become quite paranoid. Dickens is showing us some of the negative influence of wealth.
I liked this sentence describing an errand boy: "...and his writing...was good; and he glanced at the backs of the books, with an awakened curiosity that went below the binding...." and when referring to the drowned man this boy says, "If Lazarus was only half as far gone, that was the greatest of all the miracles".

[Patrick]

1. She has got worse and worse throughout this part, until her first meeting with Bella. It seems to have unlocked some nicer feelings from her, unless she is a complete hypocrite and true to her mercenary ways.

2. It’s hard to speculate at this point what her role in the novel should be, apart that she is Lizzie Hexam’s friend, Lizzie’s protector against all the beaux who are vying for her charms (Headstone, Wrayburn), and the daughter of an alcoholic that she treats as a mother would do to a very bad son. Her last name Wren is quite appropriate, as these are birds who “are small and inconspicuous…though they have loud and often complex songs (and) can be quite bold in their behavior.” (Wikipedia)

3. At the moment, it’s a toss-up between Fledgeby and Wegg, the latter becoming extremely disagreeable in the last few chapters.

4. I’m still trying to understand the sudden transformation of Boffin into a paranoid miser. Surely, this has to do with the fact that his inheritance is largely undeserved and that he would hate to lose any penny from it. But it is the suddenness of the change which bothers me most.

5. Betty Higden was poor, but selfless and proud. She did not hesitate to surrender her money to the Deputy Lock (a.k.a Rogue Riderhood) when he threatened her to lock her up and report her to the parish, as she wanted to save her honor and complete the mission she had been given to deliver a letter to Lizzie Hexam, at the price of her life.

6. I found her to be a little naïve when she opened up to Bella Wilfer. Had she known the real nature of Bella, maybe she would have thought twice before confiding in her. This being said, their contact seemed to have softened up Bella.

7. During that scene, I felt that George Sampson could have been a dog lying under the table! Obviously, there are other turns of phrases which would deserve mention, but none specifically come to mind (I should have taken notes…).

[Valerie]

Patrick wrote: "1. She has got worse and worse throughout this part, until her first meeting with Bella. It seems to have unlocked some nicer feelings from her, unless she is a complete hypocrite and true to her m..."

I asked #3 because at this point I was appalled by Headstone. He was just awful! Although Fledgeby and Wegg were bringing up the rear capably. I wondered if I was being manipulated by Dickens in my opinion of Headstone. The other 'villains' of the novel often had some humor in their story (even if it was very small).

I agree with what you say about #6. I was surprised she took Bella in her confidence, but I suppose we all do that - take someone at face value when we first meet them.

[Amanda]

1. I’m late on the uptake here, since I was hoping to answer this last month and read this back in September, but from what I remember yeas, by that point she does start to be less superficial and social-climbing oriented.

2. Thematic Jenny seems to encompass a role of demonstrating resilience over adversity, compassion/caretaking as a life philosophy, and in those the ability to create beauty and make life more lovely. Plot wise, her taking care of Eugene and surmising his feelings toward Lizzy is pretty significant.

3. Mentioned previously, Charley nouveau richeness annoyed me, but I’m with Valerie that I found Headstone the most repugnant.

4. As a chronic spoiler, I knew going in what the purpose of this was, maybe that subtracted from the impression- I don’t know. I found it a little unbelievable even for what it was regardless.
5. I always kind of expect the pitiful extremely poor character in a Dickens novel, but yeah, aspects of her story are very reminiscent of how I’ve found the poor and elderly are still treated where I’ve lived as well. Hell, some people died earlier this year in Montreal after being straight up abandoned in homes where nurses didn’t want to go to work and get exposed. It’s pretty horrifying.

6. Not really? Some people are really sweet. I expected everyone to suffer at least a little bit in this book though to be honest.

7. The “where are the books on being a miser” was admittedly kind of funny even in its complete ridiculousness.

[Kristel]

Bella is one of the character who develops before your eyes from superficial to a very strong woman willing to stand on principal and give up "the easy life". Jenny Wren is repugnant as she would be if you met her on the street but getting to know her makes her a lot less so as it would be if we got to know the person. I enjoyed the article on alcoholic parents and children. It seems that Dickens did an excellent job of catching that aspect.

[[deleted user]]

I have read a little further ahead than I should have before answering these so I am trying to remember what has and hasn't occurred yet.

1. I like the way Bella is developing and how she now sees her selfish self reflected in Mr Boffin and doesn't like the way it looks.

2. No idea at the moment. She protects Lizzie, makes dolls clothing and is generally sarcastic. She does provide some colour.

3. For me at the moment it is Fred he seems to have a hand in everything and I don't like his treatment of women.

4. I like the way Boffin is handled as I think it is a realistic portrayal of the evils of money. I think it means the audience will also have less sympathy with him if one of the villains does best him. Then the stage is set for a remarkable comeback as the sweet man he once was.

5. Poor Betty Higgins it was a sad end to a good woman.

6. Lizzie is a mystery to me at the moment she does seem to be a good soul but I have not been particularly worried for her, apart from where her suitors are concerned.

7. I love the fact that Boffin is looking for books about misers I am expecting at any minute that he will discover Scrooge.

[Valerie]

Book wrote: "I have read a little further ahead than I should have before answering these so I am trying to remember what has and hasn't occurred yet.

1. I like the way Bella is developing and how she now sees..."


That's funny, Book! Scrooge would have been appropriate in that group!

[Diane]

1. We are getting to know Bella better in our ‘part 2’. Does your opinion change about her by the time you get to the end of Part 14?
No, but only because I have read this book before.

2. What does Jenny Wren’s role appear to be in this novel?
She is a friend to Lizzie. While she sometimes appears odd, she is a positive character and very perceptive.

3. There are a lot of ‘villains’ to choose from in this novel! Who do you find to be the most disagreeable? (not necessarily who Dickens wants us to think is the worst…. just the one that annoys you the most.)
Where to start... I have to go with Headstone, although there are several unsavory characters. Fledgleby and Silas, come in a close second and third.

4. What do you think of Dicken’s handling of Mr. Boffin’s character? Do you think his way of going about it was necessary for his audience?
I thought this was cleverly done. His "transformation" is certainly convincing and illustrates the potential effects of greed.

5. Betty Higden plays an important role, in this part of our reading, regarding Dicken’s social commentary. How did her story affect you? Did her story make you reflect on contemporary, elderly women living in poverty, in your own country?
Her story shows the plight of the impoverished during the Victorian Era. She is a strong-willed character who strives to remain independent and adheres to what she knows is right, but suffers due to the injustices of society. Similar stories to hers can still be seen today throughout the world.

6. Is Lizzie Hexam too good to be true? Does that concern you as a reader (eg. I worry something bad will happen to her due to her being so nice!)?
She is genuinely a kind person who shows a level integrity not seen in many of the other characters. I feel confident that she will make the right decisions.

[Pip]

I am confused about the three parts. Where does part one end and part two begin? My copy has four books and a postcript, and the link to the study guide shows how the book was originally published in eight episodes. Where does part two end? I am not sure where I should stop and answer part two questions.

[Valerie]

Pip wrote: "I am confused about the three parts. Where does part one end and part two begin? My copy has four books and a postcript, and the link to the study guide shows how the book was originally published ..."

Because our quarterly read takes 3 months I divided it as follows:

1. parts 1 to 7
2. parts 8 to 14
3 parts 15 to the end (part 20)

There are 4 'books', each of which is made up of 5 instalments (except the fourth which was 4). I don't know what the study guide means by episodes, but the book was serialized and published over the course of 19 months.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Mut...