Grammar Tip of the Week

[Kenneth P.]

A car cannot run well. A car runs good.

[Ken, Moderator]

My car runs well, but its a marathoner.

[Ken, Moderator]

"trained on the target" is a nice participial phrase, no?

[Mrs. C.]

Julie wrote: "Ruth wrote: "I always wonder if those with baited breath have been eating anchovies."

Ruth wrote: "I always wonder if those with baited breath have been eating anchovies."

That's so funny. I know..."

It is a clever thought, but technically the phrase is "bated breath," "bated" as in "abated." The person is holding their breath, barely breathing, from fear or anticipation of some kind. "He waited with bated breath."

[Ruth]

Mrs. C. wrote: "Julie wrote: "Ruth wrote: "I always wonder if those with baited breath have been eating anchovies."

Ruth wrote: "I always wonder if those with baited breath have been eating anchovies."

That's so..."

I know that. I was commenting on those who write "baited" instead of "bated."

[Ken, Moderator]

Week of 25 May



toward vs. towards


In American English, the preferred form is toward; towards is prevalent in British English.

The word is preferably pronounced /tord/ (to rhyme with board), not /tword/...

Toward implies movement. It shouldn't be used when the sentence would be served by to or against--e.g.:

"The parks and recreation department has no objections toward [read to] selling the West Suffield School." Rubaina Azhar. 'Suffield Holds Off on Sales,' Hartford Courant..."

"Perhaps he should consider his own attitude, which appears to be one of prejudice toward [read against] people from certain parts of the country." Cameron T. Shalamunec, 'No One Has Come Here to Make Others Unhappy,' Rocky Mountain News...."


source: Garner's Modern American Usage

[Doug]

There are a lot of these. Upward, downward, inward, outward, sideward, foreward, backward, seaward, Southward, skyward, afterward, frontward, etc.

None of them can be plural (toward-s) including sideward because you can't go to both sides simultaneously. Anyway, that would be sidesward.

[Cecily]

Doug wrote: "None of them can be plural (toward-s)..."

A word that ends in S is not necessarily a plural. All these words are prepositions, not nouns. In British English, it's common to use the -s form, but they're still just prepositions: "He ran towards his mother."

[Stephen]

Hasn't been a grammar tip of the week in a while so I thought I'd stir things up a bit.

Ever puzzle over the correct spelling of blonde? Or is it blond? Seems that while both are correct they don't mean exactly the same thing. Traditionally blond is the correct word for men while blonde is the correct word for female.

For years I've puzzled over gender specific nouns when trying to understand Spanish. It still blows my mind that the dress el vestido is masculine while the shirt la camisa is feminine.

Now I have the additional dilemma of trying to understand the old saying "Blondes have more fun." Or is that "Blonds have more fun?"

[Sharon]

Are the two blond(e)s used interchangeably today? I note the spellings but didn't think about it much.

What is the consensus here on the use of myriad?

In general books are getting worse when it comes to usage and especially errors that proofreaders should catch.

[Doug]

Ah, Since you mentioned it, those beautiful Euro languages would be unspeakable here due to the PC police. Are they having the same trouble?

[Ken, Moderator]

According to Garner, the -e for feminine and no -e for masculine comes, of course, from French, and is followed by British usage. In American usage, however, "blond is preferred in all senses." Note that the -e is always dropped when referring to inanimate objects:

"blond wooden chairs"
"a honey-blond microbrewed beer"

[Ruth]

I've always used blond and blonde.

[Ken, Moderator]

I hope others chime in with grammar tips of the week. I tried to do it daily, then weekly, but it's work when you're working like I am (he says after shopping at Excuses R Us)....

[Doug]

What is the correct way to dialogue quote(s) within a quotation? see below: Right or wrong?

She told me, "Mom always answered his calls with 'Mom's grille' and a hearty laugh."

[[deleted user]]

In the grammar catalog, is dialogue preferred but dialog gaining ground? Or, should that be the grammar catalogue? Is there a reason to continue inconsistent endings?

[Ken, Moderator]

Yes, the demise of -ue is gaining ground, but the traditionalists (like me) are blissfully carrying on.

Interestingly, the word dialogue comes not from di- (two) but dia- (across).

[Sharon]

This comes from Grammarist. I checked as I generally use theatre, especially for live drama or music.

"Theater vs. theatre


In most contexts, there is no difference in meaning between theater and theatre. Neither has any special definitions in general usage. The main thing that most English speakers and learners need to know is that theater is the preferred spelling in American English, and theatre is preferred virtually everywhere else.

Some Americans do make distinctions—for instance, that a theater is a venue while theatre is an art form, or that a theater is a movie theater while a theatre is a drama venue. There is nothing wrong with making these distinctions, but they are not consistently borne out in general usage. Even in 21st-century writing on the art of theater, the more American spelling now appears for all senses of the word."

[Ken, Moderator]

Interesting. Never heard of that distinction, but then, I seldom go to theaters and even less often visit a theatre.

[Stephen]

I tend to use theatre without thinking but will change it to theater if I catch myself and I'm writing for a distinctly American audience. Some of my spell checkers catch it others do not. BTW for some reason my brother's Mac thought he was British for over a year. He couldn't figure out how to change it. He finally took it to an Apple genius bar and they Americanized it for him.

[[deleted user]]

I think I'm going to drop the 'ue' from both dialog and catalog. English is quirky and fun now that I'm not being graded on spelling. However, dropping silent letters consistently is a nudge towards simplified spelling I can tolerate.

By contrast, I see distinctions between a place to show movies and the art of putting on drama performances that warrant two words.

[Ken, Moderator]

If it's silent letters we're offing, good luck to the Nights of the Round Table! ;-)

[[deleted user]]

Hang 'em hi?

;(

[Doug]

Many words with so called silent e are not supposed to be silent but the -te for example should sound like -tuh.

[Cecily]

It's always refreshing to see people pointing out the differences between AmE (American English), BrE (British English) and any others, rather than asserting that only one form is right, oblivious to geography.

As a Brit, I always write "theatre" and thought those in the US always wrote "theater"; I didn't know you sometimes use the other spelling.

Regarding "dialog" and "dialogue", much of the impetus comes from IT, along with "program" and "programme". In both cases, the shorter version is the norm in the software world, even in the UK, but the longer form is still the norm in other formal contexts (though I'm expect that may change.)

[Sharon]

It seems to me that in general use in the US, most folks use theater for any venue, but some of us use theatre. (Hah! I have British ancestry back a few centuries) I tend to use theatre for all such venues, and I think some live performances use that spelling as well on websites and in literature/advertising.

I have not seen programme used in the US, but I enjoy the differences in language between our two countries. Some of your words for things are charmingly different from ours. I enjoyed browsing grocery stores when we visited England. Everything is interesting in another culture, down to the most mundane.

[Cecily]

Sharon wrote: "I enjoy the differences in language between our two countries. Some of your words for things are charmingly different from ours. I enjoyed browsing grocery stores when we visited England."

The first time I visited the US, I was amazed how many items on restaurant menus were unintelligible to us. It was a few years ago. For instance, we'd never heard of subs, let alone many other things (I forget what).

[Sharon]

Our British friends who visited here a couple times were astonished at salad bars. Salad in England is very different, at least in the area where they live.

[Doug]

Sharon wrote: "Our British friends who visited here a couple times were astonished at salad bars. Salad in England is very different, at least in the area where they live."

I'm hungry for details.

[Doug]

History of theater and theatre were pretty well documented when I looked them up. I believe England is the main holdout for theatre which has a long established "truh" ending sound. When theater came into common use in American English it was used a lot in reference to battlefieds and maneauvers. My theory is that it might be easier to pronounce in a wider variety of immigrant languages that do not roll their r's.

[Cecily]

Doug wrote: "I believe England is the main holdout for theatre which has a long established "truh" ending sound."

We may spell it so it looks like a "truh" ending, but most accents in England are non-rhotic, so there's no audible "r" in it.

[Doug]

Cecily wrote: "Doug wrote: "I believe England is the main holdout for theatre which has a long established "truh" ending sound."

We may spell it so it looks like a "truh" ending, but most English accents are non..."

I believe that is the case today but I was referring to the 1700s. Would that have a bearing? Tell me more about this =tre puzzle.

[Sharon]

Hah! Doug, I just saw your "hungry for details" post. Were you cereal or what? Do you live in the US or England or elsewhere? When I ordered salad in England, perhaps with a sandwich, I got a few bits of lettuce meant to go on the sandwich, I presume. It wasn't enough for anything else and it was extra cost. Imagine what a salad bar -- unlimited -- looks like to a Brit.

[Doug]

Sharon wrote: "Hah! Doug, I just saw your "hungry for details" post. Were you cereal or what? Do you live in the US or England or elsewhere? When I ordered salad in England, perhaps with a sandwich, I got a fe..."

Hi Sharon,
Ohio, Look up any restaurant menu on the web. I am going to that for England and Ireland.

[Cecily]

Sharon wrote: "When I ordered salad in England, perhaps with a sandwich, I got a few bits of lettuce meant to go on the sandwich, I presume. It wasn't enough for anything else and it was extra cost. Imagine what a salad bar -- unlimited -- looks like to a Brit."

We have salads, and salad bars here, even unlimited ones, and I can't remember a time when we didn't. Not in every eatery of course, but they're not a novelty. LOL.

If you order a sandwich in a pub or café, it will often come with a "salad garnish", but no one thinks that's the same as an actual salad!

[Doug]

I Don't know where this is going.
A garnish is a decoration or a bit (bite)
A salad is a course (it can be a mixture of anything)

I wouldn't say salad-garnish If It was one or the other although cooking is much about art of preparation and for sake of economy or for art it could be one or both..

[Sharon]

We were in Leicestershire, sometimes in small towns or in the countryside. Salad wasn't listed as garnish at all. And our friends were astonished at what salad is when they visited the US. Things could have changed in 10 years or so.

[Doug]

Sharon wrote: "We were in Leicestershire, sometimes in small towns or in the countryside. Salad wasn't listed as garnish at all. And our friends were astonished at what salad is when they visited the US. Thing..."

Do you mean that a salad is the main entre there? I often do that. I'm hungry again, so I will be back after lunch (A chicken salad sandwich by coincidence). A "salwich"?

[Carol]

So how was the chicksalwich, Doug? A tunsalwich or, a turksalwich sounds good too.

[Doug]

My chicsalwich was delicious owing partially that I make my own chicksal so I had to eat another for dinner. Thank you. I hope your dinner was also. Today was eggbisq. sans sal

[Doug]

Carol wrote: "So how was the chicksalwich, Doug? A tunsalwich or, a turksalwich sounds good too."


luv this site: www.southofvanill.com

[Carol]

:)

[[deleted user]]

Oh, Lordy. I'm getting myself a submarine with the works. Now.

[[deleted user]]

Oh, and a pop with it.

[Doug]

Jonmontanavega wrote: "Oh, Lordy. I'm getting myself a submarine with the works. Now."

And a side of worms for the duck?

[[deleted user]]

Graham quackers please

[Doug]

Doug wrote: "Carol wrote: "So how was the chicksalwich, Doug? A tunsalwich or, a turksalwich sounds good too."


luv this site: www.southofvanill.com"
sorry, I left the a off of vanilla.

http://www.southofvanilla.com/

[Alex]

The correct use of ellipsis marks in writing fiction continues to elude me in one aspect. Frequently in fiction there will be unfinished thoughts, but an unfinished thought can be of a sentence fragment or a complete paragraph. If it's a sentence fragment, convention would have three dots, if it's complete sentence or paragraph, convention would have four dots. But even the writer isn't quite sure of what his characters unfinished thoughts are (the idea that characters have a life of their own), and even if he knows that his character's unfinished thoughts comprise a paragraph, what good will that do the reader? Near as I can see, most writers are now using three dots exclusively. What do you think?

Nakamura Reality

[Pat]

Carol wrote: "Didn't know that one. Thanks on both accounts. Might eventually become knowledgeable in grammar. That was my worst subject in school, spelling was next. This thread is like having my personal tutor."

Carol wrote: "Didn't know that one. Thanks on both accounts. Might eventually become knowledgeable in grammar. That was my worst subject in school, spelling was next. This thread is like having my personal tutor."
My best subjects in school!

[Doug]

Alex wrote: "The correct use of ellipsis marks in writing fiction continues to elude me in one aspect. Frequently in fiction there will be unfinished thoughts, but an unfinished thought can be of a sentence fra..."

I use ellipsis in both poetry and fiction. I don't really care much what the rules are. What I do is what speakers do when they stop in mid sentence because they want you to finish the thought. The reader becomes injected into the thinking that way.