Classics and the Western Canon discussion
The Library of Greek Mythology
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Week 5: Book II: 5. Heracles, and the Heraclids
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The murder of Iphitos and Heracles' enslavement to OmphaleAnother fit or rage and another murder. Now he must be sold into slavery for three years. Omphale is his new master.
The first sack of Troy
Heracles arranges for Podacres freedom to be purchased causing Podacres to become known as Priam (from priamai, to buy), King of Troy during the more famous accounts of the Trojan War lead by Agamemnon. It is soon after this is when Heracles helps the Olympian gods defeat the giants.
Campaigns in the Peloponnese
He seems to get his revenge against Augeias for not paying him for cleaning up after the cattle. He kills Augeias and installs his son Phyleus who had been exiled because he testified against this father saying that Augeias had agreed to pay a reward to Heracles. There is also a disturbing story of Heracles raping the daughter, Auge, of an allied King and what happened to the baby, Telephos, exposed but saved by a doe and some shepherds, and Auge being given to a son of Poseidon who transferred her to the King of Teuthrania, conveniently named Teuthras, who eventually married Auge.
Marriage to Deianeira; Heracles in northern Greece
Heracles married Deianeira.
The Sack of Oichalia; the death and apotheosis of Heracles
It seems Heracles likes a challenged, Deianeira’s name means "man-destroyer" or "destroyer of her husband", which she is tricked into to doing. While dying he has enough strength left to build a pyre and immolate himself.
The children of Heracles
Heracles definitely got around.
The return of the Heraclids
Heracles many children meet with varying degrees of success.
Some notes I made on Heracles:1. Except for the Belt of Hippolyte and the Apples of Hesperides, Heracles kills, captures, or releases mythical beasts. He seems to be cleaning things up and making areas safe for civilization.
2. He seems to have to travel a further distance with each labor, ending with the trek to the underworld.
3. Instead of a more localized “test-and-quest” for a local city-state, like Athens, Heracles tests cover more of the world, was this intentional from the beginning, to kill the monsters and civilize the world, or was it due to syncretism?
4. Does the root of Heracles’ name, “Hera”, link him to the Goddess who hounds him his entire life, and who in the end becomes his mother-in-law when he marries Hera’s daughter, Hebe. I have since discovered The name Heracles means "Glory of Hera". how does that work exactly?
5. Hebe was worshiped as the goddess of forgiveness or mercy, something it seems Heracles was in need of.
6. Does the path to immortality consist of living a moral life, or does it consist of a life of servitude, or outright slavery, first to Eurystheus and then to Omphale, suffering and dying by fire? Recall Dionysos, threw Demophoon into the fire as a step to make Demophoon immortal.
Cphe wrote: "I didn’t understand the origin /type of madness that overtook Hercules. Found him hard to envision here I think because of the way Hollywood has portrayed him over the years that squeaky clean imag..."It seems Hera brought about the madness somehow:
After his battle with the Minyans, it came about that Heracles was struck by madness through the jealousy of Hera. . .
Hercules certainly lived a full life. Samson (who is sometimes compared to him) gets his full story told in just 4 chapters. Hercules also seems to kill a large number of people--not in anonymous droves, but one at a time.
There is an alternative "biography" of Heracles" in the "Library" (i.e., compendium, like Apollodorus) of Diodorus Siculus, who wrote what was supposed to be a "universal history." Delphi Complete Works of Diodorus Siculus (Illustrated)He begins the narratives with the mythological age of Greece, which he treats in a "rational" way. For example, Heracles is a great general and engineer, imposing civilization, draining swamps, setting up monuments, etc., in the territories he conquers. He also has the hobby of eliminating monsters in order to allow civilized life to advance.
Despite this, the outlines of Diodorus' account seem archaic. Georges Dumezil, the Indo-European comparativist, used Diodorus, with additional material from Apollodorus, to reconstruct an "original" myth of Heracles, before the Twelve Labors bulked so large in the story. In accordance with Dumezil's theory of "three functions" in Indo-European society, Heracles manages to transgress against all three social categories, and each time has to purify himself through an ordeal, or set of ordeals, culminating in his death and apotheosis.
Dumezil actually went into this twice, once in The Destiny of the Warrior, in which he is compared to the Old Norse hero Starkad, in whose story there are clearly three such "sins," and to an account of the misadventures of the ancient Indian god Indra.
He later decided that the Purana which supplied the Indra material was too late to be good evidence, and rewrote the argument using a character from the Mahabharata as the third point of comparison, in The Stakes of the Warrior
Both books are short, and can be found on the Internet Archive. See
https://archive.org/details/destinyof...
and
https://archive.org/details/GeorgesDu...
If you are curious, download the PDF format: the books are loaded with diacritical marks and non-Roman characters, and conversion to any other format can make them unreadable.
Is my reading correct in that Hercules did not have any children when he was a god?
Mike wrote: "Is my reading correct in that Hercules did not have any children when he was a god?"Yes
Ian wrote: "Mike wrote: "Is my reading correct in that Hercules did not have any children when he was a god?"Yes"
What about his children by Hebe?
As the pyre blazed, a cloud is said to have passed beneath Heracles and raised him up to heaven to the accompaniment of thunder. There he obtained immortality, and becoming reconciled with Hera, he married her daughter Hebe, who bore him two sons, Alexiares and Anicetos.
Apollodorus. The Library of Greek Mythology (Oxford World's Classics) . OUP Oxford. Kindle Edition.
David wrote: "Ian wrote: "Mike wrote: "Is my reading correct in that Hercules did not have any children when he was a god?"Yes"
What about his children by Hebe?As the pyre blazed, a cloud is said to have pass..."
You're right, of course.
I had just re-read that on my Fire tablet, which was recharging in my bedroom. Between the looking up of the passage, and then getting back to my computer in the next room, to use its keyboard, the answer of "No, he did have children by Hebe," seems to have turned into "Yes." Presumably meaning "Yes, he did," but if I was that absent-minded I can't be sure.
If so, I had forgotten how the question was phrased, as well as their names.
I'm not sure why they bothered other than to demonstrate Heracles and Hera made up. There isn't much to his immortal sons. Wikipedia has this:Alexiares and Anicetus. . .are minor deities in Greek Mythology. They are the immortal twin sons of Heracles, the greatest of the Greek heroes and the strongest mortal to live, and Hebe, the goddess of youth the server of Ambrosia and nectar to the other Olympian gods. Along with their father Heracles, they possibly were the guardians of Mount Olympus, and the pair may have been regarded as the gatekeepers of Olympus, a role which was often assigned to their immortal father. Additionally, they were likely responsible for the protection and fortification of towns and citadels. They were born after the hero's mortal death and ascent to Olympus, where he gained immortality and married the goddess Hebe. Callimachus makes a reference to Hebe receiving assistance from her sister, Eiliethyia the goddess of midwifery, while in labour. Their names mean "he who wards off war" and "the unconquerable one" respectively.
It is possible they were worshipped at Thebes and Rhodes. Little is known about them besides a mention of their birth in the Bibliotheca: "Heracles achieved immortality, and when Hera’s enmity changed to friendship, he married her daughter Hebe, who bore him sons Alexiares and Anicetus."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexiar...
The apparent reason for the reconciliation between Hera and Heracles was given way back in book 1:In the course of the fighting, Porphyrion launched an attack against Heracles and Hera. But Zeus inspired him with a lust for Hera, and when he tore her clothing and tried to rape her, she cried for help; and Zeus struck the Giant with his thunderbolt, and Heracles killed him with a shot from his bow.I find the fact that Zeus inspired Porphyrion with lust for Hera didn't muddy the reconciliation between the two or even ruin it.
I was a little surprised to read in Hard's translation that the young Heracles "was taught ... fencing by Castor." This has two problems, one of translation.The latter is that "fencing" is, properly speaking, as defined by the online Oxford Dictionary of English "the sport of fighting with swords, especially foils, epees, or sabres, according to a set of rules...." These are all light-weight blades. Fencing also involves the defensive use of the blade to block the opponent's attack.
(Quick flash of Heracles dressed as Zorro.....)
The ancient Greeks, to judge by period art, used something closer to the heavy broadsword, although it was probably shorter than many medieval versions, which were meant to be used by a man on horseback with stirrups and a saddle to help him stay on the horse while swinging it. (Neither in use in classical times.) The Greek cavalry sword apparently was longer than the hoplite weapon, but not all that long, either.
The second is that Castor is presumably the twin brother of Pollux, whose sister was Helen of Troy, and this hopelessly mixes up the chronology.
On the first point, Frazer's translation agrees with Hard's. However, Trzaskoma, Smith, and Scott ("Apollodorus' Library and Hyginus' Fabulae") have "to fight in armor." This is closer to the Greek "hoplomachein" (rough transliteration), meaning to fight like a hoplite, with a shield (hoplos) and armor, with the spear as the primary weapon, and the sword as secondary.
The only occasion on which Heracles seems to use these skills is in the pseudo-Hesiod, "The Shield of Heracles," in which he has a formal combat with a son of Ares. (Which, being after all a son of Zeus, Heracles wins handily, even driving off Ares when the war-god intervenes.)
However, Frazer's note sent me to the probably source of Apollodorus' summary, Idyll 24 ("The Childhood of Heracles") by the Hellenistic poet Theocritus, which has a more detailed version, in which the young hero is taught to the whole set of skills (proper use of the shield, etc.) for classical Greek and/or Homeric combat.
This also resolves the problem with Castor. According to a commentary on that poem, the Castor in question is a different man, with a different father, and not the brother of Pollux, so that problem turns into a non-issue.
As a final note: the Roman legions eventually used a very short, leaf-shaped (gladius) thrusting sword, a design acquired while fighting in Spain. The Roman cavalry's longer sword seems to have been picked up from the Gauls, who favored a slashing, rather than a thrusting, weapon, which did not work well in close-order formations like the legion.
Anyone interested in cheap (as in Free) ancient mythological art may want to take a look at these three J. Paul Getty Museum catalogues available in Kindle editions:Ancient Lamps in the J. Paul Getty Museum
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074JJ9JXJ/...
Ancient Terracottas from South Italy and Sicily in the J. Paul Getty Museum
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01D3NVOIC/...
Roman Mosaics in the J. Paul Getty Museum
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GONKCX6/...
These are all from the "minor arts" (the mosaics were floor decorations, more expensive than paint, but much more durable), but they probably give a good idea of what a Greco-Roman man/woman-in-the-street had in mind when a myth was mentioned.
The lamps include some Carthaginian, Jewish, and Christian examples: most of them these were basically utilitarian items, but could be decorated to suit the anticipated customer.
Classics and the Western Canon
Books mentioned in this topic
Complete Works of Diodorus Siculus (other topics)The Destiny of the Warrior (other topics)
The Stakes of the Warrior (other topics)
I wondered if there was any significance to starting the Heraclid line with the paradox of the uncatchable fox pursued by the dog fated to catch whatever it chased until Zeus turned them to stone.
The birth and early life of Heracles
Zeus strikes again and fathers one half of Alcmene’s twin sons. Baby Heracles’ snake handling skills soon make it apparent which twin was fathered by whom.
Heracles and the Minyans; his first marriage, and madness
Somehow Hera causes Heracles to kill his own children and two of his nephews. He is told to go to Eurystheus and perform 10 labors not only to be purged of his murderous rage, but also to become immortal.
The labors
1. The Nemean Lion.
2. The Lernaean Hydra. Because Iolaos assisted him, this one does not count. I think he should have received a bonus for killing the crab too.
3. The Cerynithian Hind. Heracles gets Artemis to agree to let him borrow the deer.
4. The Erymanthian boar. He kills a few Centaurs along the way. It is supposed that his arrows with the Hydra’s poison are to blame.
5. The Cattle of Angeias. More cattle. Heracles cleans the cattle dung by diverting a river, but there is another technicality called here since it was sworn Heracles was offered pay for this labor.
6. The Stymphalian Bird. Heracles is able to get the birds to fly in order to shoot them with arrows. He used bronze castanets from Athene that were originally from Hephaistos. It’s a wonder another labor-adding technicality was not called here in receiving the castanets.
7. The Cretan Bull. A successful catch-and-release to become someone else’s labor at a later date.
8. The Mares of Diomedes. A note helps explain Heracles satisfies these man-eating mares by feeding Domedes to them. Then it is another catch-and-release. Tragically…? These mares were eventually killed by wild beasts.
9. The belt of Hippolyte. Hera ruins a Heracles euphemism strewn belt-stealing times with Hippolyte.
10. The Cattle of Geryon. More cattle.
11. The Apples of the Hesperides. This one is a long trek, and he manages to set Prometheus free and in exchange is given advice on using Atlas to get the apples. Heracles has to hold the sky up for Atlas while Atlas goes for the apples.
12. The capture of Cerberos. Another catch and release.