Historical Romance Book Club discussion
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Does it drive anyone else crazy that readers will use “Regency” to describe almost any HR?
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Lauren wrote: "Susan in Perthshire wrote: "There are authors I enjoy who do that kind of thing well because they are presenting historical fantasy - Tessa Dare is a splendid example. .."It is interesting that y..."
Yes I totally agree.
I am almost ready to switch my reading to mysteries where you can at least kill someone a 1000 new ways rather than rewrite the same "Regency" novels. Some of the recent novels written seem to use the same plot over and over. If it wasn't for the setting I would think they were written in 2001 and not 1801. Plus the pages of description that happens after insta lust have become an excuse for page fillers.
Back to the original question of this discussion, yes, it's annoying to have every HR that takes place in England classified as Regency. You know what else is annoying? People who use the term "Recency" and I've seen that often.
@OTL I know I am beating a dead horse lol I just was venting. Changed my vent to Regency!
Merry Jewelhound wrote: "@OTL I know I am beating a dead horse lol I just was venting. Changed my vent to Regency!"Now I'm all mixed up. What was the original vent?
OLT wrote: "You know what else is annoying? People who use the term "Recency" and I've seen that often."Oh dear. Haven't yet seen that one, but yeah, no..............
Mis-naming historical periods and historical Inaccuracy is one of my pet peeves. I’m a local (all periods) & military (1714-1902) historian. On the military side those dates mean I cover the Georgian & Victorian periods; the Regency (capital letter R) is encompassed within the Georgian period. I’m not especially pedantic but roar at what I see as lazy writing, where the simplest search would give the correct information.
One comment on here asks about the work of Editors who should pick up on the writing at the very least, and question potential historical inaccuracies. My answers the question is that “you get what you pay for”, so in some cases you pay for no-one, you get absolutely nothing.
Recently I persevered through a book that no editor who claimed to be one, could possibly have read it. Grammar, spelling, punctuation? I think these words were a mystery to the author.
Personally, if I was self-publishing, then I would look at the self-published authors I liked & admired, find out who their editors are, & approach those businesses to see what services they provided, & which other authors they edited, & check the work of those authors. A great many authors include the editor and/or agency or person’s name, in their books (certainly on their e-books)
Food: an easy research topic but most do NOT bother. 😡
For readers here I must point out that what we call mac & cheese these days, has been around in the UK since the medieval period, in one form or another. One of the first ‘modern’ recipes to be published, was in 1770 in The Experienced English Housekeeper by Elizabeth Raffald. That recipe had therefore been around, in one form or another, in the 17th century.
It would have been at least ‘known’ in the Americas before Thomas Jefferson & andJames Hemings ‘discovered’ it in Paris. The knowledge of how to make macaroni would be scarce, never mind the difficulty around the importation of ingredients, would explain the lack of knowledge generally.
Don’t get me going on the phrase ‘American as apple pie’!!
If you’ve made it this far in my discourse (mini-rant) then I am willing to answer question for authors, within my given time frame 1710-1902. The history of cooking & recipes is a pet/fun subject; fashion also but to a lesser extent; for both I have a substantial archive of books & images.
Please don’t ask me to read your manuscript. I’m self-employed (history & genealogy) and would have to charge. Questions I can answer though.
Keep calm & carry on reading historical romance. ❤️❤️
@OLT I changed it from Historical to Regency so as not to hijack the thread. I have let my KU lapse and am looking at reading books published in the last century, Some do not hold up well but at least the plots vary. I am also trying out new authors to me from the library.@heartshaped. I do wonder how much research current writers do regarding historical books. It almost seems like they watched a few costume drama's and that was it.
The current theme of Ladies who want to be spinsters, men who don't want to have children to spite their fathers and woman who can roam off and travel at will to get vengeance is becoming over done.
Merry Jewelhound wrote: "@OLT I changed it from Historical to Regency so as not to hijack the thread. I have let my KU lapse and am looking at reading books published in the last century, Some do not hold up well but at le..."@Merry...have to agree with you on everything you've stated. It does get kind of boring.
I agree too. The last month I switched completely to thrillers and I'm back to historical romances again! I just can't seem to give up. Its the same old thashed up theme, . Have you noticed how even the sentences are repeated across books / authors? especially when our Rake of hero has a daughter- no man will be allowed near her till she's 35 ? and even the supposedly great love scenes are such a repeat across authors - I have just started skip.reading :(
@Leena I understand lol. I guess it has always been the case of authors "borrowing" ideas from each other. I remember when I stated out reading, Barbara Cartland was alive (talk about repetitive-I still read them) was accused of heavily borrowing from G Heyer. It is nice to have a place to discuss it. Now I will get back to reading another books with the description "If you liked the Bridgerton's you will......"
Historical inaccuracies really irritate me, especially in this day when a simple Google search can provide all the information that any author in the genre could possibly need. It reeks of laziness and puts me right off an author. One particularly glaring error was a book set in 1828 that mentions "her majesty" and details Jack the Ripper like murders. Victoria did not come to the throne until 1837, Jack the Ripper was active in 1888, and Queen Charlotte (George IV's estranged wife) died in 1818. So which queen did this author mean? These kinds of mistakes take me right out of the book!
The HRs I enjoyed reading were by Sherry Thomas, Cecilia Grant, Meredith Duran, and, long ago, Judith Ivory. Those were creative writers who made their stories less cookie-cutter and didn't seem too anachronistic. Now I can't find anybody whose HRs I enjoy. Any suggestions of HR authors still writing like those I mentioned? Oh, I almost forgot I do like Erin Satie, who is still writing rather sporadically. Mimi Matthews is okay, but a little bland, as is Stella Riley recently. BTW, anybody know what has happened to Lucinda Brant?
I agree with Sherry Thomas and Duran. I will look into Grant and Ivory. Thank you for the author suggestions. I sometimes find I can have a love/hate relationship lol Love one book Hate the next...back and forth. Also series can start out great but then can run their course. I was totally enchanted with Deanna Rayburn. The last book I just felt every character was tstl.
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Sandra wrote: "Some inaccuracies bother me the must. Why bother if you don't do the thing right?! I'm reading a book: the sometimes bride, the plot occurs in Portugal, Spain and England so far. I'm really enjoyin..."I feel your pain, Sandra. Sounds as if this is an HR written by an American? Another thing that I've encountered in other books is really horribly incorrect French/Spanish/etc. scattered through the story. If you are going to put a foreign language in a book written in English, at least have the courtesy to have those parts proofread.
OLT wrote: "The HRs I enjoyed reading were by Sherry Thomas, Cecilia Grant, Meredith Duran, and, long ago, Judith Ivory. Those were creative writers who made their stories less cookie-cutter and didn't seem to..."@OLT..I have to agree with you on SThomas, MDuran and JIvory. Very creative writers and Thomas and Ivory are tops for me.
@Lauren...dislike inaccuracies too, especially the time. It is annoying and sometimes I just trudge along to complete the book even though I want to stop. It is a shame that research sometimes is not done prior to writing the story. Most get so caught up into the trope and plot that they forget everything else.
Merry Jewelhound wrote: "@OLT I changed it from Historical to Regency so as not to hijack the thread. I have let my KU lapse and am looking at reading books published in the last century, Some do not hold up well but at le..."You are probably right on the button regarding research and lack of it.
I'm particularly attached to Georgian (by which I mean pre-Regency) novels but much as I love ALL my 'histroms', the over-used plot of the reluctant male, averse to marriage but being driven there by mother/family etc etc, grinds my gears.
Of course there have always been men AND women like that, but getting married and having children was important. It was something that they wanted and looked forward to. The fact that men had to postpone because they needed a decent income to AFFORD to marry was not a happy state of affairs for them. Josiah Wedgewood married at 33 and was ecstatic about his approaching nuptials.
At one point, there where proposals to levy a tax on older bachelors - that is how much bachelorhood was frowned upon. This leads to another nonsense that at 21 plus a woman was 'on the shelf'. The average age for a bride and groom in the middle of the 18th century was about 27 for men, and 25 for women. All these men in their late 20s & early 30s marrying girls aged 17 and 18 really is a nonsense. Not saying there weren't marriages like that but, well, think about it.....rather gross.
Anyway, regardless of what these books portray, the REALITY is quite different, and before someone shouts that 1750 isn't the Regency period - quite correct. The average age for a first marriage at the END of the 18th century (Regency period), was 28 for men and 26 for women.
Some authors need to take a long hard look at those who do it best.
Like I've said - ask questions - I'm happy to answer.
In the meantime, I'm suffering with my friend insomnia, so I'm off to read an old favourite by Alice Chetwynd Ley.
Have I found a kindred spirit? Heartshaped, Alice Chetwynd Ley has been a go-to comfort read for me for some years. She never gained as much popularity as Heyer, at least in the U.S., so I had to happen upon her accidentally. And fortunately.
I KNOW....I must have read her since I read all the historical authors in the 70's. I was a reading machine back then. I need to check out some of her books.
Merry Jewelhound wrote: "I KNOW....I must have read her since I read all the historical authors in the 70's. I was a reading machine back then. I need to check out some of her books."Merry Jewelhound, for some reason I thought you and I were GR friends. But no. I'm sending you a friend request, which you may or may not accept?
@OTL we are now!
OLT wrote: "If you are going to put a foreign language in a book written in English, at least have the courtesy to have those parts proofread."This!
Why bother putting the language in, if it is incorrect?! There is always going to be a reader who speaks the language and will pick up on the errors.
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Sandra wrote: "I have this doubt, do you note more accuracy about this English periods from UK writers, then for USA writers? I tried to analyse if there's any difference but I don't know if we can jump at a conc..."Well, I can't say I've read any statistics on this or even tried to research it myself. All I can say is that I'm from the U.S., am a retired college professor, and am not at all impressed by accuracy of people here even with regard to their own native language.
I do have to admit when I reread my messages, it does look like English is my second language not my first and only. Don't even read my texts lol. Two years of French and I can only ask what time it is?
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Yes, I agree with you. I don't have any base to conclude something like that, just wondering... The problem seems to reside mainly in the will to do a good work, nationality apart.
I dislike when a HR makes you guess the time period. If an author is too lazy to add this at the start do I want to read
this story? He/she may reference Prinny or a certain battle,
or an event in English history.
And authors: please don't write a CR posing as a HR.
Susan---RE your message #27 on previous page. I agree with all your points. Some authors need to do more research or pay someone to do so.
I read a post-WW2 historical fiction w/ romance elements. One lady wore pantyhose, which was not invented yet!
Historical Romance Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
Gone with the Wind (other topics)Always the Chaperone (other topics)
Medieval Underpants and Other Blunders: A Writer's (and Editor's) Guide to Keeping Historical Fiction Free of Common Anachronisms, Errors, and Myths (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
C.S. Harris (other topics)Stephanie Laurens (other topics)
Kelly Bowen (other topics)
I am glad you found it. I would never have found out about the Bridgertons if not for this group!