Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion
II. Publishing & Marketing Tips
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Maybe 72 marketing tips? Is there more to the review game?
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Interesting and something I've suspected is rotten in Denmark. I've read some really bad books with great reviews.On the flip side several people (one of them a friend admittedly) have informed me that Amazon has refused their reviews of one of my books with the same indecipherable generic message:
Thanks for submitting a customer review on Amazon. Your review could not be posted to the website in its current form. While we appreciate your time and comments, reviews must adhere to the following guidelines:
http://www.amazon.com/review-guidelines
I have contacted Amazon to no avail.
So you have what obviously must be fake reviews but they reject legitimate ones? I have to ask what gives too.
I have heard of authors giving away an enormous number of ARCs in exchange for reviews posted on publications date. That never works for me, as I'd have to give away 4000 books to have 500 reviews, based on my current stats. And I'm not even sure I know that many people...
When you are referring to ratings and reviews, I assume you are talking about here at GoodReads. Do these same numbers perpetuate on Amazon for these same titles? It's true that having multiple books will enable you to grow your readership exponentially versus only having one or two books (something I am working hard to improve on). But what you are describing seems more like someone who is abusing the privilege of share/review. I recently turned down a review swap from someone because 1) if I allow myself to get distracted from what I really want to be doing in my free time (which is write more books) then I will never reach my own personal goals, and 2) I would rather get reviews from people who are compelled to write them for their own reasons than as a favor.
Interestingly enough I noticed that while their are many reviews on Amazon (not quite as many and no ratings w/o a review), very few are marked "verified purchaser."I wonder what the lead on release of these books is. Perhaps the books are circulated to thousands of readers in exchange for a review a year or more prior.
One author on another GR author's group suggested that NetGallery could generate this type of buzz. Another said some books simply go viral. Perhaps these authors hire professional promoters. Whatever the case, I wish them well.
I personally believe that mass solicitation, swapping, and purchasing reviews have eroded their reliability and credibility to the point where most readers probably pay little or no attention to them. Therefore, neither the number of reviews nor their content impact sales much one way or the other.A review is merely a subjective opinion of a book, provided by the reader for the benefit of other readers, not the author. It might behoove authors to focus more upon continuously improving their technical writing and narration skills and less upon the number of reviews their work receives.
Jim wrote: "I personally believe that mass solicitation, swapping, and purchasing reviews have eroded their reliability and credibility to the point where most readers probably pay little or no attention to th..."Jim, the problem is that even if people don't necessarily believe all the glowing reviews (and the number of reviews mentioned here obviously seems fishy), sites like amazon allow searches to be made on customer reviews. I.e., bogus reviews will still make a book more discoverable.
Personally, I have never bought a book based on reviews. Ever. I always use the Look Inside feature. You can tell in a few paragraphs usually if the author can actually write, and whether there has been any attempt at editing.
Even still, I may very well have been manipulated by a large number of good reviews to look at bad books, while at the same time missing out on good ones with few or no reviews (like my own sad works on amazon **sniff**). ;D
This thread makes very interesting reading. We are all told that we can not merely be writers if we want our books to be discovered and so there are no end of experts (some good, some less so) that are happy to offer advice on how to effectively market our works so they have a better chance of being picked up by the Amazon algorithm etc.
Maybe that is the very problem in that it is a lottery based on how many reviews a book has, not really the credibility of those reviews.
Personally, I am always touched when somebody writes something in a review that shows they were genuinely moved by something I have written.
Maybe that is the true prize which we are in danger of losing sight of.
When all the fish swim one way, think out of the box and swim in the other direction :-)
@MicahPaid reviews have been around a while (part of Traditional Publishing), and like you I have no desire to buy one (in part because I can't afford it and in part because other would rather make up their own mind about a book).
If the book's blurb is interesting, whatever sample appears to be written passably well, and Wife gives me an allowance to actually buy a book I will.
Unfortunately many people think a glowing review about a tedious to read book will compensate for the pain felt when pounding their head on a desk after realizing the review was deceptive.
Jillian wrote: "I just finished a book provided by another indie in exchange for a review (we all support each other, so sure) and went to post my review. The book was published in June 1 and has 2300 ratings and ..."I published my first book on Amazon at the end of July and consider myself lucky to have 26 reviews, and they do display "verified purchaser". Frankly I don't think those numbers are believable. Bestsellers have those sort of numbers, but even they don't get them that fast. They have vast numbers of fans and I bet a lot pre-order, but they still have to read the books and I know by comparing sales to reviews I'm lucky if 5% of readers do actually review.
I agree reviews don't influence readers much anyway. I read a lot before I ever had the time to write and I often reviewed... still do... and once in a blue moon I get an email from Amazon saying one person found my book review helpful. I've had more response than that to a review I did on a Cat Tree. (For the non-cat-lovers among you, it's a tall thing with a bed, play platforms, and scratching posts, and I bought it as a present.)
Sorry - back to edit. I didn't mean to imply I didn't believe you, Jillian. I think Amazon need to be asked about these writers. They are very strict about reviews. I knew family couldn't post, and obviously they were first to buy my book: I had no idea anybody mentioned in the acknowledgements wasn't either, and that included the wife of someone I acknowledged. He helped with research, which she had nothing whatever to do with, and bought the book herself. They barred her because she, obviously, had the same second name and it's rather unusual.
Stu wrote: "@Alex, outstanding post. You nailed it!"Thanks Stu :-)
Just for fun Google "How to get more reviews on Amazon"It's an eye opener. There are dozens of people promising endless reviews.
Now for more fun, check some of the books which have used their services...
One book for example - despite being advertised on one of those websites - had just one review...
I don't know how these authors are getting thousands of reviews???
R.F.G. wrote: "...Paid reviews have been around a while (part of Traditional Publishing)..."Traditional publishers use COMMERCIAL reviews done by professional reviewers employed by various media to review entertainment. There is no guarantee as to the content of the review. The reviewer actually reads the book and gives his opinion.
Self published authors pay review services to provide top ratings and reviews usually in package deals containing a specific number of reviews. The book is never read and the reviews are all 5 star.
If you are going to discuss paid reviews, please don't lump the two together - they're very different.
Everyone knows how commercial reviews are done and can form their own opinion from the review. Many readers will follow specific reviewers they feel provide useful and honest comments.
Purchased 5 star reviews from "Fiverr" and other similar sites constitute fraud and are designed to deliberately mislead the reader.
Just fyi: according to Amazon's own guidelines paid reviews are strictly prohibited.http://www.amazon.com/review-guidelines
Ed wrote: "Just fyi: according to Amazon's own guidelines paid reviews are strictly prohibited.http://www.amazon.com/review-guidelines"
Many inependently and self-published authors easily circumvent such prohibitions by offering free books for reviews or swapping reviews. They merely subsititute bartering for cash, with the hope that the recipient will then be inclined to post a positive review.
I'd rather have no reviews than dishonestly received or paid reviews. ... Which is fortunate, since no reviews is what I have. But still. Ethics are important to me. I wouldn't purchase an indie/self-pubbed book with even dozens of uniformly 5 star reviews, to say nothing of hundreds, because it looks ridiculously suspicious.
Chris wrote: "I'd rather have no reviews than dishonestly received or paid reviews. ... Which is fortunate, since no reviews is what I have. But still. Ethics are important to me. I wouldn't purchase an in..."
Chris,
Your first book was published just three months ago and the most recent one, just this month. That is no time at all in the literary world. Be patient. I am sure readers will discover your work and the ratings and reviews will follow eventually.
I wish you success.
@JimThank you. I wasn't trying to complain; I'm sorry if I came across that way. I understand that this is a long-haul prospect with no guarantees and that I am extremely new. Even then, I would genuinely prefer to go unnoticed or receive critical reviews than bolster my stats in ways I feel would be unethical.
Alex, well said. The problem I have, and I wonder if any of ye others share this, is that my readers aren't old enough to register a review.
My stories are for a demographic of 10+.
Fortunately many adults have enjoyed it enough to put some forward. But ... any clues as to the best route forward in this regard?
Giving away books in exchange for reviews is NOT fraud. It's normal in the industry. How else do those newspaper, etc. readers get a copy -- especially if it's an ARC?Reviewers, especially pros, put in a lot of work/time reading these books and most of them provide an honest assessment of what they read. It would be an imposition to ask them to buy the thing to boot (although some do just that).
That being said, the "verified purchaser" indicator is gold as far as impact of a review is concerned.
Christine wrote: "Traditional publishers use COMMERCIAL reviews done by professional reviewers employed by various media to review entertainment. There is no guarantee as to the content of the review. The reviewer actually reads the book and gives his opinion...."Really? Wow, once again you make clear your low opinion.
Believe it or not, Christine, I did attend school at least once or twice. Keep your propaganda about how ignorant (if not microcephalic) you apparently believe I am, please.
As for paid reviews, there are COMMERCIAL reviewers available to 'scum' like me, and they don't just hand out 5-stars for books unread. If I simply wanted to waste my money I'd throw it at say, Kirkus, or a good hooker.
Have a nice day, please.
Ed wrote: "Just fyi: according to Amazon's own guidelines paid reviews are strictly prohibited.http://www.amazon.com/review-guidelines"
Amazon does prohibit paid reviews, but the ones I'm referring to, APPEAR to be reviews posted by independent readers.
Amazon has been informed that they have books with paid reviews and shown proof. They have also been shown proof that some of their "top" reviewers were providing paid reviews. ????
James wrote: "Alex, well said. The problem I have, and I wonder if any of ye others share this, is that my readers aren't old enough to register a review.
My stories are for a demographic of 10+.
Fortunately m..."
James,
Parents and other adults buy children the books that they read, or at least peruse and approve their content. Have you considered including a brief addendum to your promotional comments and blurbs, encouraging those adults to help the children to rate and/or review the book and then post it on their behalf?
R.F.G. wrote: "...Really? Wow, once again you make clear your low opinion...Believe it or not, Christine, I did attend school at least once or twice. Keep your propaganda about how ignorant (if not microcephalic) you apparently believe I am, please...."
My statement was "If you are going to discuss paid reviews, please don't lump the two together - they're very different."
Your reaction shocked me. I certainly would never insinuate in any way that you are ignorant. I've read your comments often, since we've run into each other quite often in discussions. I find your views and insights to be intelligent and well considered. Admittedly I may not always agree, but I respect your right to have your own opinion and applaud your convictions.
My intention was to separate in reader's minds, the paid commercial reviews which are legitimate, from the phony 5 star paid reviews. I have met many readers who do not even realize these things exist.
I sincerely apologize if I offended you in any way.
Al wrote: "Giving away books in exchange for reviews is NOT fraud. It's normal in the industry. How else do those newspaper, etc. readers get a copy -- especially if it's an ARC?..."It is not fraud if an independent reviewer discloses in his review, that he received a free copy. Per FTC regulations, it is considered compensation and therefore disclosure is required.
In the not too distant past, this wasn't an issue. The vast majority of readers occasionaly expressed their opinion of a book verbally with someone, but had never felt the urge to formally rate or review something they had read. I believe that is still the case. Perhaps authors should stop constantly soliciting and imploring readers to review their work and revert to the past practice of just leaving it up to them. If they wish to formally rate and/or review a book, they will. If they don't, they won't; no incentive or encouragement from the author necessary.
ehh, depends on the book. ive written more books and had quicker releases (one every 3 months) and sent out arcs to various reviewers. but not much on amazon or goodreads. oh well... *shrugs* some folks suggested i write shorter books since my doorstoppers arent getting notice
I don't even know where to send ARC's copies... lol ;-)
A lot of reviews can be generated through Facebook groups which specialize in your particular genre. This is most common with romance books, to a much lesser extent with Sci-fi/dystopia. By 'a lot' I mean ten or twenty. The number of reviews cited in the start of this thread are simply not believable.Blog tour organizers, if they're on their game, can put your book through twenty or more blogs over a two week period (for example). They require that you supply the cover image, excerpts, bio info, and other bits according the particular blog requirements. Some of the blog hosts will review, for which you must supply an ebook copy to them. Blog tour organizers are paid for their efforts, but the bloggers themselves do this to fulfill the expectations of their 'followers' which can number in the hundreds. The benefit to their followers is as described about commercial reviewers in this thread discussion: they know the blogger's history and value his/her opinion about the book.
Finding a good blog tour organizer or Facebook/blog promoter for your book is a chore. My suggestion would be to find books on Amazon similar to yours and make a list of all the review sources. Then search out those sources. If you find a blogger review, go to their blog and look at their blog tour participation--often they'll include a list of all the blogs involved in any particular book's tour.
You don't have to do a blog tour or hire an organizer. You can contact bloggers directly to request a review. Mostly you won't hear back because these folks are buried in requests. Lots of work for fairly little return, but I think it's important to note that if someone happens across your book listing and there are zero reviews, they are much less likely to purchase than if you have at least a few favorable reviews.
One bad point about amateur blogger/reviewers is that they are amateurs. They may write a book report instead of a book review, meaning they're going to summarize your story and talk about if they like it, rather than comment on your writing ability, plot, vision, etc. Some don't write in proper English. Some give away key plot points. It's a zoo out there.
My two cents.
I echo the sentiments that it is best to open the book and read a few paragraphs to determine if it is a book you want to invest in. That said I also agree if there are just no reviews, the book will likely not sell, even if it is really good.I would rather have 10-20 legitimate reviews for my book than 85 that are obviously paid for. And then hope the reader charges forward to read what is posted online somewhere and decide the writing merits his or her attention. But you still have to get those 10-20 reviews and even that can be a challenge.
How is that possible? First book, indie and to be honest, good, but far from great. If I've done my math right, that's about 100 ratings per day.
I went to check out another indie who I recently read. February publication. 6000 ratings and 1000 reviews. Better hook, but still...
I did notice that both these authors have multiple books published in a very short time period (2 for her with 3 listed as coming 2015/4 for him).
What am I missing here? How did they do that? What am I doing wrong?