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Troubled Blood
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Group Read - Troubled Blood part 6 & 7 to end new Spoilers Welcome
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Spoiler summary for Part 6 Chapters 60-67___ Chapter 60
Robin and Strike individually wonder about the impact of the shared confidences of the previous night. Strike was planning on visiting Mucky Ricci but was too recognizable. Robin didn't promise not to try. They speculate Gloria may have been pregnant; did she have the abortion?
___ Chapter 61
Margot's case is stalled, Robin in disguise is able to (sort of) talk to Mucky Ricci, but is almost discovered by creepy son Luca Ricci.
___ Chapter 62
Strike is angry Robin secretly went to see Mucky, the thaw takes days. Case loads shift to the two partners with Barclay and Hudgins on weeks long holidays. Shifty's clients terminate, even Anna and Kim pull the plug with two weeks remaining on the years long contract. Neither Robin nor Strike, finally speaking again, are ready to stop seeking clues to Margot's fate.
___ Chapter 63 - 64
The agency is as busy as ever. Shifty's boss who lost his job decides to hire them to expose Shifty. His PA, Gemma, finally confides in Robin. Strike found Douthwaite, and Robin is notified they can interview Creed. Strike is glad, he will be intimidating to interview.
Steve Douthwaite is going by Steve Diamond and running a bed and breakfast with his wife and daughter. Donna Diamond is incensed to hear of her husband's lies and interferes while Strike interviews Steve - who takes advantage of the distraction and holds back on his conversation with Margot during his last appointment.
___ Chapter 65
Robin and Strike leaving the B&B, Gloria Conti finally returns Robin's email. A walk on the beach; Strike realizing Joan gave them a burial place to visit, every time they look out to sea.
___ Chapter 66
Robin and Strike Facetime with Gloria, the other practice receptionist. She starts with her childhood fantasy of being a Mafioso's wife. To that end she finds Luca Ricci, an abusive, cruel and violent man who gets her pregnant. Knowing she must escape him, Margot helps her get an abortion. Luca hates Margot but was with Gloria when she disappeared and Mucky was at the hospital.
Gloria confirms Margot's last patient, Theo was definitely a woman and she brought Margot the last donut to eat before meeting Oonagh. Gloria found a job in France and escaped. Margot had saved her.
___ Chapter 67
Robin and Strike discuss coincidences, ideas and speculate Talbot knew the sighting of Theo outside the call box was faulty (locations, heights of struggling figures)
Spoiler summary for Parts 6 Chapters 68-71___ Chapter 68
Creed's interview. He wants the upper hand and off the drugs to keep him calm, and out of the hospital.
Forty-five minutes, the recitations of his many acts of extreme torture are very difficult to read. Strike dodges guesses as to which family hired him. Time almost up, Creed confesses he killed Louise Tucker after Strike tells client is Margot's daughter, shocking the doctor. Strike refuses to recommend he get out. Creed says find Louise's body at M54 and Strike throws back that he was really there for Louise, Margot's killer was more skilled.
___ Chapter 69
Strike calling Douthwaite again to confirm his suspicion. Robin found M54. Astrology again in a way: a cluster of stars in the Sagittarius constellation, " the archer". The abandoned well on Creed's delivery route suspected by Tucker.
Robin calling George Layborn to get a search started. Strike calling Tucker. Robin and Barclay have a job tomorrow, find Margot's body.
___ Chapter 70
Meeting by the callbox where Theo waited. Samhain comes and they go in and convince Deborah and Samhain to let them help find where the ceiling below is cracking and solve it. In an ottoman cracked open with great difficulty, in rough concrete, shapes show a skull and fair hair.
___ Chapter 71
Robin calls Strike with the news and summons 999 and George Layborn. He goes in, Janice Beattie is not happy to see him.
A confession after one last attempt to poison at the least Strike, and maybe a murder suicide. A kitchen full of poisons, drugs, packaging and syringes. She just liked killing. So many victims. Started with another kid when she was eight, included attempts on her own son which Margot suspected something. She had to go.
Gwilherm had helped her get a groggy Margot upstairs (after ingesting the drugged donut). Chilling.
Spoiler summaries for Part 7 Chapters 72-73___ Chapter 72
Robin and Strike can't go the office because of all the press which calls out the inaction of people forty years ago and diminishes Creed with Janice having more victims and evading discovery longer. Many regrets and second guesses now that Janice was caught.
Strike and Robin visit Anna and Kim ( and Roy, Cyn and Oonagh. Hoping for a conviction, her son and Gloria and Douthwaite will testify. Her locket with Anna's picture was found intact and leather handbag with notes about Theo. Many other cases may be reopened.
___ Chapter 73
Robin's birthday and a much different present from Strike. New perfume, Narciso and champagne at the Ritz.
Wow, the chapters in this part were very well written and really had me on the edge of my seat, especially Strike's Creed interview which was disturbing to a very high degree and nightmare inducing. The moments waiting for the police during Janice's outing and confession were intense and the chapter with Barclay and Robin finding Margot's body in the ottoman was so sad.
Omg the Janice interview! I can honestly say I never even suspected her. Maybe I have the same bias about assuming things about people based on experiences thought I have to admit there were so many names and places and locations connected to so many characters it was hard to keep it all straight! But wow.The Strike/Robin birthday ending was so sweet, and I’m ready for the next book! At least now we know why there was such an emphasis on birthdays!
Karly:I didn't suspect Janice either, particularly for all of her many victims. That chapter was crazy, especially the revelation that she was trying to poison Strike when he first visited her home ( the dates she offered) and the chocolates sent to the agency at Christmas. I was confused on the sequence of Strike's food poisoning. - was it the out of date chicken that saved him from ingesting the bad chocolates?
And was Margot's drugged state enhanced from eating the remaining chocolates from the "thank you " box sent anonymously that she had initially tossed, eaten on top of the drugged donut?
Karly wrote: "Omg the Janice interview! I can honestly say I never even suspected her. Maybe I have the same bias about assuming things about people based on experiences thought I have to admit there were so man..."
Did Margot also eat the chocolates?? I can’t remember. Or did she guess they were from Janice?I think strike had the already bad chicken and then like one or two chocolates after? So I guess the chicken saved him lol. But knowing how close the rest of the staff could have been to being poisoned is wild. The number of her victims was staggering.
Karly: I think Margot must have eaten at least some of the chocolates, and if Strike ate the bad chicken first and then the chocolates as a chaser, no wonder he was so sick. Of course suspecting the out of date chicken would throw him off about the chocolates. I initially wondered if Margot ate both the chocolates and the drugged donut in close proximity before heading out that last time from the practice. But with the box still in her office and not in the trash bin, another thought is she noted they were poisoned in some way earlier. I thought she guessed they were from Janice, or at the least, needed as evidence, and that was why the empty box was on her shelf (Gloria commented on the box in sight when they discussed the last donut. And Gloria knew she initially threw them away) Margot wouldn't have realized that Janie snuck in the back door to get to the donut. Janice was certainly brazen and cold blooded.
It's too bad she wasn't able to confide in Roy on her growing suspicions since he wasn't speaking to her and she wasn't close enough to the others in the practice to voice her concerns yet.
Karly wrote: "Did Margot also eat the chocolates?? I can’t remember. Or did she guess they were from Janice?
I think strike had the already bad chicken and then like one or two chocolates after? So I guess the ..."
Not yet through. Just finished chapter 65. BUT (don't know if that occured to anybody of you, I didn't yet read the comments, of course): In Skegness, Strike and Robin having Fish'n'Chips, Strike finds his packet of Benson&Hedges empty and is about to get some. The mail from Gloria arrives, and Strike sits back again. Then ... "Strike lit himself another cigarette." ?????? And on the same page he buys some.Well, that doesn't really change anything of the plot, but isn't it strange that such a condradiction could get to print? Or am I missing something?
****
So my suggestion it is a Hogwarts year dissolved. Now they are working overtime, but looks like it is coming to some solution. Bloody time on page 814 out of 927.
Sybotes: I know you are excited to be on the home stretch! Wow, good catch on the empty cigarette pack magically turning into an available smoke. I would have expected continuity to have caught that. Must be the “Hogwarts Overtime effect” lolI have the Kindle version so am checking to see if an update rectified the timeline snag... yep, it’s not there in the Kindle version - no lighting up while Robin types a reply to Gloria. “They set off later in search of cigarettes”
(I have my setting for auto updates)
Auto updates! Is there such a thing? So your first chapter is perhaps no longer the one you read? Are you aware that with auto updates we would never have found Oakden (because of the different versions Strike and Robin had of the Paradise Park biography).Ah modern times!
Amazing. I confess, I didn't get everythong that Talbot might have guessed and encrypted in his astrological symbols. But, as I said, that is quite queer. Probably no need to track it down.Of course, I never suspected Janice either. And I liked it, that neither the whole Ricci complex nor Creed had anything to do with Margots death.
I am wuite sure Margot didn't eat the chocolates. She said she couldn't resist - but after she had thrown them in the bin. I rather think she knew they were poisened first place and threw them away in disgust - then on second thought wanted to rescue evidence.
But perhaps auto updates supply alternate suspicions?
Sybotes: I certainly hope an entire chapter wouldn't be replaced in an auto update! (especially the first chapter) that is an unpleasant side effect. Excellent point about the details that were in first edition of Oakden's book being found in the arc copies of another unpublished work. JK is very clever including that sort of detail I think. LOL, I suppose later print editions also have erased the timeline glitch of missing then appearing cigarettes. I still like the magical explanation. :)
Sybotes wrote: "Auto updates! Is there such a thing? So your first chapter is perhaps no longer the one you read? Are you aware that with auto updates we would never have found Oakden (because of the different versions...
But perhaps auto updates supply alternate suspicions?"
Sybotes: Amazing indeed. I gave up early on trying to decipher Talbot's notes which were faithfully included in the Kindle edition where I could blow them up to study. It says a lot about Robin's perseverance that she stuck with that even when Strike was derisive and dismissive of the astrology angle after his own careful study of the clues. In the end they both found value and confirmation that Talbot was on to something there. I was hoping for, and imagine a scene where they tell Geoffrey Talbot that his father was actually closer to the truth than the bizarre actions of his illness suggested.
I was rather stunned by the denouement and had not suspected Janice at all, I think after the interview with her and Irene where Irene's overblown personality made Janice seem unimportant and mild. She was quite the chameleon Janice.
Sybotes wrote: "Amazing. I confess, I didn't get everything that Talbot might have guessed and encrypted in his astrological symbols. I am quite sure Margot didn't eat the chocolates. She said she couldn't resist - but after she had thrown them in the bin. I rather think she knew they were poisened first place and threw them away in disgust - then on second thought wanted to rescue evidence."
Just recollecting the plot, I need to ask a couple of things."The two quarrelling ladies at the phone box": So did I get that right, that the final conclusion is the following: Ruby saw two women twice when she drove through the streets; once Fiona with her old mother, second Janice and Margot. She mixed them up an merged them in her testimonies.
"Strikes coincidence": He first had that lucid moment, as I called it, after the interview with Wilma's daughters. After the interview Robin repeatedly asked: Cormoran, which coincidence? - So: which coincidence? Died you all get it? I didn't.
And: Why the title? Whose blood is it referring to?
Was definitely unclear about the title! Would love to know everyone’s thoughts on that
Karly and Sybotes: that question makes three of us. I never had an aha moment with the title while reading. Upon reflection, I speculate it has to do with Strike's unhappy family ties with his father Jonny Rokeby, but that seems still a stretch. But with his rejection of the reunion, and rejection of astrology because his mother followed it, and the rejection of his half siblings - even though after all, they didn't treat him badly like his biological parents did; those blood ties were definitely troubling to him. If it is a title without significance, it is still enticing.
Karly wrote: "Was definitely unclear about the title! Would love to know everyone’s thoughts on that"
The word combination "troubled blood" did appear at one place in the novel. Forgot where - because it was not like some "everything explaining" expression. Maybe Ann can find it on her Kindle if there is a search function ... but it is definitely not able to make it quite clear.Well, apart from Silkworm and Lethal White, the titles of the Strike novels are all not very specific, are they? Who is the cuckoo that calls? Lula because she is adopted ... and begins to be interested in her relatives? ... And our Janice here has also a long career of evil. Looks like the titles are interchangeable.
Could you two (I am a little disappointed that is all this "group read" is about) help with my other questions, too?
Anyways, it was fun with you, Karly and Ann. Thank you!
Sybotes: It has been fun! I expect a few more may join in the discussion soon, though the length of this one may be an obstacle for some. I hope some do! Your questions were good ones.
I was mystified and remain so for the "Strike coincidence". I was annoyed at the time when he wouldn't tell Robin. I tried to connect it while rereading to summarize and still didn't see it, but now thinking it must have been a call box that jogged his memory - just guessing. Call boxes did pop up a lot. It was something "across the street" I think?
As for "The two quarrelling ladies at the phone box"
I think you have the right understanding of there being two different sightings of the struggling women by the call box. It was mentioned that the eye witness, a woman who was driving in circles, lost, looking for an address probably tried to tell Talbot he was misunderstanding her sighting location and the key point, that the heights of the figures were backwards but he wouldn't hear of it. Demerits to Talbot.
Strike deduced there were two sightings, (1) the woman who came forward confirming she was supporting her mother at a different call box somewhere else; and (2) ~shorter Janice struggling with ~taller Margot at the call box across from the Athorn's flat.
Sybotes wrote: ""The two quarrelling ladies at the phone box": So did I get that right, that the final conclusion is the following: Ruby saw two women twice when she drove through the streets; once Fiona with her old mother, second Janice and Margot. She mixed them up an merged them in her testimonies.
"Strikes coincidence": He first had that lucid moment, as I called it, after the interview with Wilma's daughters. After the interview Robin repeatedly asked: Cormoran, which coincidence? - So: which coincidence? Died you all get it? I didn't.
"
Sybotes: good question. Unfortunately the x-ray function didn't reference the title. Sybotes wrote: "The word combination "troubled blood" did appear at one place in the novel. Forgot where - because it was not like some "everything explaining" expression. Maybe Ann can find it on her Kindle if th..."
Ann wrote: "Karly and Sybotes: that question makes three of us. I never had an aha moment with the title while reading. Upon reflection, I speculate it has to do with Strike's unhappy family ties with his fath..."The title comes from one of the chapter epigraphs quoting Spencer's "Faerie Queen" fairly late in the book -- can't remember which one, as I am listening to the audio version. Some familiarity with the work, which I confess I don't have, would probably help:)
Karen: thanks for the tip! I think the epigraph you refer to was for chapter 64. As you said, familiarity with the work might help with the context. It still isn't an aha moment for me. ;)Here is the quote:
"...his hand did quake,
And tremble like a leaf of aspen green,
And troubled blood through his pale face was seene,
To come, and goe with tidings from the heart,
As it a ronning messenger had beene."
Edmund Spenser
The Fairie Queene
Karen wrote: "The title comes from one of the chapter epigraphs quoting Spencer's "Faerie Queen" fairly late in the book -- can't remember which one, as I am listening to the audio version. Some familiarity with the work, which I confess I don't have, would probably help:)"
Ann wrote: "Karly and Sybotes: that question makes three of us. I never had an aha moment with the title while reading. Upon reflection, I speculate it has to do with Strike's unhappy family ties w..."
Karen, Sybotes and Karly:To add re: the title and epigraph reference from chapter 64. This was when, at the end of chapter 63, Robin told Strike she had managed to get an interview with Dennis Creed. Chapter 64 begins with Strike entering Robin's car and the celebratory feeling and possibility Strike might hug Robin. Interesting!
So that's it? A blush because he might or might not get a hug? "Honestly ...", Hermione would be hissing.Alss the other titles have something to do with the criminal case they are investigating. And now that?
Ok, but anyway, I am quite sure the word combination "troubled blood" is somewhere else in the text. Chapter 67, I think. But I can't look it up now, all my books are in boxes because of a water damage in my appartment ... ok well.
Thanks Karen for the hint!
Sybotes: sorry to hear your books are boxed up due to water damage, and hope your books are possessions are dry and safe.... Lol Hermione hissing! Interesting comment about the previous titles being about cases... perhaps the change was intentional to signal the reluctant nature of our two favorite detectives. Or could it signify the evil nature of Dennis Creed and Janice and be about the case after all.
Sybotes wrote: "So that's it? A blush because he might or might not get a hug? "Honestly ...", Hermione would be hissing.
Alss the other titles have something to do with the criminal case they are investigating."
"Troubled Blood" might also relate to Strike's difficult, complicated family relationships. So perhaps Rowling had several themes in mind for the title. Do you think perhaps that her previous titles just related to the cases coincidentally?
Marianne: Good points. I can also see a tie in to troubled family relationships; it's "pick your own title tie-in". ;) Mkotch wrote: ""Troubled Blood" might also relate to Strike's difficult, complicated family relationships. So perhaps Rowling had several themes in mind for the title. Do you think perhaps that her previous titles just related to the cases coincidentally?..."
Mkotch wrote: ""Troubled Blood" might also relate to Strike's difficult, complicated family relationships. So perhaps Rowling had several themes in mind for the title. Do you think perhaps that her previous title..."I figured she might have the book plotted or even partially written before writing the little epigraph? things about The Fairie Queen. Maybe before she picked it. I wonder if she had a working title first, then decided on the actual title.
Bonnie: ah yes, it would be nice to know if there was a working title and when the Fairie Queen quotes came in the process. Bonnie wrote: "I figured she might have the book plotted or even partially written before writing the little epigraph? things about The Fairie Queen. Maybe before she picked it. I wonder if she had a working title first, then decided on the actual title."
Mkotch wrote: "Troubled Blood" might also relate to Strike's difficult, complicated family relationships. So perhaps Rowling had several themes in mind for the title. Do you think perhaps that her..."
Reading the last part, I was relieved that we only received glimpses into Creed's evil torture of his victims. What Rowling included, parenthetically, was plenty for me.
Ann wrote: "Wow, the chapters in this part were very well written and really had me on the edge of my seat, especially Strike's Creed interview which was disturbing to a very high degree and nightmare inducing..."I had difficulty reading the Creed interview because of the parenthetical sentences that described what he had done to his victims. I thought I had read every kind of horror a killer can do to his victim but I had to skip a couple as they were just disturbing. But I'm glad Strike left having got the upper hand, and glad Robin figured out Creed's final hint Robin and Strike really do compliment each other from a detection standpoint.
Karly wrote: "Omg the Janice interview! I can honestly say I never even suspected her. Maybe I have the same bias about assuming things about people based on experiences thought I have to admit there were so many names and places and locations connected to so many characters it was hard to keep it all straight! But wow.The Strike/Robin birthday ending was so sweet, and I’m ready for the next book! At least now we know why there was such an emphasis on birthdays!..."
Agree about the Janice interview, Karly. And I have to say a lot of the references eluded me as I recognized the names but had forgotten the particulars of who they were. Next time I embark on a mystery that long I will keep a log of who's who. Or so I say now ;-).
The ending was so satisfying. I was glad Rowling did not leave us with a cliffhanger, that would have dulled the satisfaction for sure. But she went just far enough to leave me eager for the next book. I can wait, though; that 900+ pages took me almost two months to read and I'm ready for a different story.
The "Love, Strike, XOXO" on the birthday card was a nice surprise; he has really broken through his reticence. I think Robin observes earlier that their heart-to-heart in the darkened office before they were interrupted by Barclay seemed to have opened him up and I agree. Thank God.
Sybotes wrote: "And: Why the title? Whose blood is it referring to?..."I wondered about this too. Certainly Strike and his dad. I also thought about Anna, being troubled about the whereabouts of her mom.
Sybotes wrote: "Could you two (I am a little disappointed that is all this "group read" is about) help with my other questions, too?Anyways, it was fun with you, Karly and Ann. Thank you!..."
Sorry you were disappointed in the turnout, Sybotes. There are so many group reads, and I want to read them all plus my own books, so I rarely get to them when everyone else is reading them. I think I'd also find it hard to keep up if lots of people were posting, especially if everything had been said by the time I got there. But, different strokes for different folks!
Ann wrote: "Karen: thanks for the tip! I think the epigraph you refer to was for chapter 64. As you said, familiarity with the work might help with the context. It still isn't an aha moment for me. ;)Here is ..."
Thanks for the quote, Ann. I missed this entirely.
I have to admit I was a little annoyed at the quotes from The Fairie Queen. At first I thought it was gilding the lily, Rowling showing off. It didn't help that I couldn't make sense of any of it. Then I got curious and Googled Edmund Spenser and The Fairie Queen, and at least learned about him. Why she choose this to begin the chapters I'm not sure. Then, finally, since I had the print version, I began reading the passages out loud, and began to get the rhythm and the pronunciations for the words spelled differently from modern English. Not sure I got all the content but it wound up being an enjoyable addition.
Mkotch wrote: "Reading the last part, I was relieved that we only received glimpses into Creed's evil torture of his victims. What Rowling included, parenthetically, was plenty for me."Agreed. What a nasty, evil man.
Obviously I am WAY late to the game. BUT, this was the only discussion I could find on why Troubled Blood was titled Troubled Blood. While I am not discounting the lil poems next to the chapter numbers nor am I discounting any correlations of Troubled Blood relating to Bad Blood (between Janice & Margot, which was my first thought of the title name), nor am I discounting Troubled Blood relating to the all the accounts of poisoning that happened(my second thought for the title)....BUT:I Wanted to share my title reference Ah-Ha Moment! Page 882 of the U.S. first edition, printed book. This paragraph: "It was having a baby what killed my Mum, Said Janice. I was eight. She had it at home. Placenta Previa, it was. Blood Everywhere, me trying to help, no doctor, my father drunk, screaming at everyone..."
Gee, now that I write that I've got Taylor Swift's Bad Blood stuck in my head. And now that I write it, my aha moment doesn't seem to have much to do with the general plot...placenta previa and blood everywhere doesn't equal troubled blood title.
Mattograph, never too late - we love to revisit group discussions. In this case I don't even have to reread the comments, I remember our various ideas of potential title connections. I was excited to read your idea too and happy you've added to the possible ideas ( and had to laugh as you talked yourself out of it.) Lol
It isn't a bad idea, and perhaps will spark another round of answers. I don't always have 'aha moments' while reading of title connections, which for me makes it all the better when they occur. Maybe for the next book.
At the least you'll enjoy the song. ;)
Mattograph wrote: "Obviously I am WAY late to the game. BUT, this was the only discussion I could find on why Troubled Blood was titled Troubled Blood. While I am not discounting the lil poems next to the chapter num..."
If the first to post, please briefly summarize to guide the discussion, thanks!
What did you think of these final two parts of the book?