J.D. Robb discussion
Archive - In Death Buddy Reads
>
Buddy Read - Creation In Death (Jan. 2015) - Spoiler Zone
date
newest »
newest »
message 51:
by
Sandra
(new)
Feb 01, 2015 08:45PM
Mod
reply
|
flag
I think he thinks of he as a daughter but he told Nixie that he still hasn't found someone who is like his daughter. I think her sweetness and big heart is what he finds endearing.
Good questions Sandra. And I agree with Sbyrd64. I don't think that the line is becoming blured, but Eve always and foremost stands for the victims. To catch the murderer and have him say sorry you can't do anything to me ?? justice will not be served ,thank you very much , and here is what I've done to over 23 ladies. And she told Feenay who could have stopped her, could have been a voice of reason.
The question now is will she cross it again? I think we've travelled a long road with Eve. She truly believes in justice. She believes that road must be travelled. She catches them , bring a solid case to the courts and punishment is doled out accordingly. To me that is what she did , brought him to justice. The debate for right is wrong is strong for either case but in this instance I support Eve's decision.
as for the way this went down. Arrogance all round. They really hadn't done their homework. Considering he had come from the urban wars and had evaded them for 9 years. I also thought Eve could have made the gap between her and her backup less. 10 mins is too long to have to wait. Ultimately though this is fiction and so dramatic licence is taken. Cope out on my part for saying that? Maybe but it makes for a better read doesn't it?
Has Summerset ever thought and said anything about his wife? And. Yes to all the above. Summerset is more like a father figure to Mavis. She definitely reminds him of someone. Maybe not his daughter but his love is real!! Look how her adores little Belle when Mavis and Trina drops by.
Michelle wrote: "Good questions Sandra. And I agree with Sbyrd64. I don't think that the line is becoming blured, but Eve always and foremost stands for the victims. To catch the murderer and have him say sorry yo..."
You know the gap I didn't think about but I think that has to do with her bravado. Remember they had to force her to wear a protective vest in several books along with this one.
Michelle wrote: "Has Summerset ever thought and said anything about his wife? And. Yes to all the above. Summerset is more like a father figure to Mavis. She definitely reminds him of someone. Maybe not his daught..."No, His wife has never been brought up. The ring was a surprise to me because he never talks about her.
@ sbyrd64. the rings really was a surprise. and so very touching. and your also right about it being bravado.
I didn't think about the gap as much because Eve has the homer on her car. Having driven in current day NYC I understand how one car can pull out in traffic and cause a delay for cars behind. That's what I think happened to Peabody & McNab. They were following at an appropriate distance just in case someone tries to follow Eve and then they were caught in traffic. Regarding Eve's actions I questioned asking Roarke to destroy the self-terminate order for a few seconds and then I thought of all the victims and there really needs to be justice.
I was surprised by Summerset lending Mavis the ring too. I love that after all these years (and according to Roarke he has intimate partners) he still keeps his wife close. I think that Robb is going to give us more information in the future. She tends to set us up with these little tidbits.
have just got this from the library had to wait for it.... started it yesterday and am already up to ch.6
Mod
yep cool... up to ch.8 now but have to stop as i now need to go to library to do story time with the children, if any turn up lol.... let you know what i think when i finish the book... probably tomorrow or the weekend... :)
Hiya Aj. You really don't have to finish reading it before you start discussing with us. Some of us share as we go along ;-)
Mod
l love how eve and sommerset always have a go at each other... love to read what they will say to each other next... im nearly finished it... and am enjoying but an old guy as the killer is really creepy.... and i want a tube dryer that would be so much better lol...
Mod
I just started this today. Already sucked right in as usual.The prologue was intense. What a bastard.
Loved the beginning with Roarke and Eve and her movie choices and the popcorn.
Loved the description when FEeney was introduced - especially on audio - she makes it that much better.
And am enjoying Roarkes observations of Eve as she works.
loved it but didnt like the old man... great story line.. finished today... yea i loved how roarke was involved from beginning to end too penni....
The characters that Robb builds are fantastic. Love Morris. Eve's discussion with him about Spring and Daffodils and pansies - so rich in their depth and show casing their relationship. And the lady from the opera - "I really wanted to murder my 3rd husband you know". LOL. She just has an amazing knack.
Mod
Well, that was totally amazing. I'm not sure how I felt about the very ending with the end of life document, but really that shouldn't have been allowed at all (if you commit the crime then you pay no matter that you self terminate). What an open license for people who are on their way out to do anything they damn well please.But I loved the book, the millions of scenes between these characters and have to thank you Sandra for riding my behind til I got on board lol.
Mod
Yippee. Penni is up to date. ,! Missed you in the last few discussions. Sometimes I read this series and wonder if some of the things should be legal. But I'm with you Penni that self termination should Not be one of those future laws. And for the life of me I can't think of a suitable example. I know I think about it when street licensed comes up, be it beggar, prostitution or some such thing.
Hey Michelle - Maybe not quite caught up but closer.
I'm not sure I think that self termination should not be a law, but just that it shouldn't get you out of paying for a crime. I think that's a really big opening for people to say, I'm dying anyway, I can commit any crime I want, then take a few pills and fade away easily.
What was rolling around in my head about this from Eve's perspective and crossing the line is that, Eve's job is not to mete out justice, but to investigate and apprehend the party that they feel did the crime. The other arms of the system dole out judgement and "justice". Always an issue for them as they can only bring in the criminals, in the best way they can so that it is "clean" and they won't get off on technicalities if they are found guilty. And often the judge/jury/etc don't end up putting them away or giving them penalties that are stiff enough, which has got to be hard on a cop.
However, in this case she promised justice which wasn't really hers to promise and in her mind justice was not served by just getting the guy off the street and stopping him from killing more, but that he needed to suffer for awhile before he died as he had made others suffer.
So, though it felt good to see him get back what he had meted out, the line there is being blurred I think. This was a really big case for the police as a whole, the families that were affected, and I don't see it being made a rule, but considering the wrangling with herself she does just to use his unregistered to gather data, this was a big departure.
Mod
But isn't she seeing justice done by having him face it and not skirt it by self termination ? Yes to everything Penni said. But in the end she didn't sentence him. She had him go the whole slog. She caught hem, now he faces the charges brought against him. Yes she shouldn't have promised but that is what she does to all the others she stood for, that she will catch and bring to justice the guilty ?
Yes, I see your point. She made sure he was brought in and she did ensure he was around to face the music. But typically, the justice part isn't her job/responsibility. It's to bring them in. What happens after that (the justice part, the due process part) is not in her jurisdiction. They (her and her team) worked very hard to bring him in AND make sure it was "clean" so that he couldn't wiggle out of things when he got to the judicial side of things. And then to find he had his wiggle thing in place from the beginning, that chapped even more than usual for them. She wasn't willing to let that stand. She determined that justice wasn't served just by getting him off the street and seeing him in a cage until he self terminated, but that he needed to pay more than that.I'm glad to see he has to stand and pay, but it really was overstepping the line for her - and in a rather big way for her, for the woman that likes to do things by the book. It's taking the law into her own hands (and I think the law stunk in this particular case).
I also wonder some that this would backfire as people would be suspicious that she had Roarke do something since so many people knew the document was in place at one point. I know Roarke is good at covering himself, but I would expect speculation to arise because of it.
I kind of like the idea of the criminal self terminating. No more having to pay to keep them for years and years (feeding, health care, appeals) and they have to admit to what they have done. Also, does anyone know what the "revised Miranda" is? Is it different from what we have now? I haven't read all the books, but I wonder if it is ever stated.
@Sandra, Penny, and Michelle, I totally understand and agree with your points of view. I just think that trying to get justice is not a easy thing when the justice system lets down them, the victim, the victim's family members, and the survivors. In justice they sometimes go with what is easiest and cheapest way to deal with a case. I believe what she did was what was right for the case no matter what. So now my question is, What are some things in the series you wish were real or legal? I personally love the idea of Licensed companions. Prostitution is as old as history. I feel that if that is your choice of occupation then why not let it be legal to be taxed. It does help them too. For health and some safety due to how it has to be conducted.
@Tarri, the Miranda is the same. They have stated it but don't don't always say the whole thing. But they actually have said it in some books.
Michelle wrote: "But isn't she seeing justice done by having him face it and not skirt it by self termination ? Yes to everything Penni said. But in the end she didn't sentence him. She had him go the whole slog. S..."I agree with you. She didn't sentence him but made sure he couldn't go home and take some pills to die peacefully at home with his music. Eve made sure he had to go to court and get sentenced to prison or death or whatever the sentence might be in 2060. Any prison sentence for this crazy guy is better than self termination. Like Feeney said if a cure is found his life sentence could be longer than expected.
Also, I don't have a problem with his self termination after he goes through the court process. It is more like a death sentence of a lethal injection.
@ Tarri. Never thought of it like that. But you have a point. Maybe that should be an option. Living in South Africa I can think of some criminals that that should be an option for. Child molesters come to mind
Imo I think that this would be a once off for Eve. I'm not saying that she will or won't do this again. But for her the guilt and question of what she has done and if she did the right think would be a big part of any decision she makes here after. Once done it's not always easy to undo. And let's not forget that she has done some fudging , for want of a better term , before. The Icove case. Yes it came to a head in the basement but before all that . . .? Can't remember the name of the book but I think it was witness where she had them on stage. Not as extreme as this but Eve is human and sometimes she goes on human feelings/ instinct instead of just strictly by the letter of the law.
If Eve were perfectly black & white, she would never use Roarke and his unregistered equipment. This was no better or worse than she has done to resolve cases before, and she insured REAL justice occurred.
Lol. Ok. In her opinion real justice occurred. And in my mind that is the point - that was her opinion and not her place -even tho most ppl would be happier with this outcome. I consider it more than what she's done in the past because she made a legal document go away. More extreme in my opinion than looking up someone's financials so you know where to look for something else. Still wrong but not as extreme in my opinion.
Mod
Ah yes Sandra. That is what I was trying I convey although not nearly as well as you did.
Mod
I wonder if she wakes up the next morning - or a week later - and thinks - maybe I shouldn't have or it was definitely the right thing to do. Or if she thinks of it at all after that.
Sbyrd64 wrote: "@Sandra, Penny, and Michelle, I totally understand and agree with your points of view. I just think that trying to get justice is not a easy thing when the justice system lets down them, the victim..."Penni wrote: "I wonder if she wakes up the next morning - or a week later - and thinks - maybe I shouldn't have or it was definitely the right thing to do. Or if she thinks of it at all after that."
Penni wrote: "I wonder if she wakes up the next morning - or a week later - and thinks - maybe I shouldn't have or it was definitely the right thing to do. Or if she thinks of it at all after that."
Sandra ~ ♥ Cross My Heart ♥ wrote: "While I'm glad she did it, I still think she stepped over a line and even more, had no regrets doing it (thus my earlier question about it seeming to be getting easier for her to cross those lines)..."
Michelle wrote: "But isn't she seeing justice done by having him face it and not skirt it by self termination ? Yes to everything Penni said. But in the end she didn't sentence him. She had him go the whole slog. S..."
Sharon wrote: "Sbyrd64 wrote: "@Sandra, Penny, and Michelle, I totally understand and agree with your points of view. I just think that trying to get justice is not a easy thing when the justice system lets down ..."I believe that Eves choice to bury the termination papers, although wrong, makes eve a more complicated and balanced character. It also shows that Roarke is having some effect on her, which happens in a real marriage.
Sharon wrote: "Sharon wrote: "Sbyrd64 wrote: "@Sandra, Penny, and Michelle, I totally understand and agree with your points of view. I just think that trying to get justice is not a easy thing when the justice sy..."Penni wrote: "I wonder if she wakes up the next morning - or a week later - and thinks - maybe I shouldn't have or it was definitely the right thing to do. Or if she thinks of it at all after that."
I think this moment will maybe come back in a future book when something similar will occur. But as for the next day or week? No as she would have thought that what she did is the best thing to have done.
@ Sharon. So very true.
Mod
The growth of the characters is what makes this a great series. It mimics life and makes all the books different even though some of the plot lines are getting a little stale.
Jonetta wrote: "As much as I loved that Roarke took that escape clause away from this creep, it crossed a line. Before Eve met Roarke, she saw everything as black or white. One of the ways she's evolving is to inc..."Well said, Jonetta. That is why the series has lasted as long as it has. Watching Eve change is what is always so fascinating. Will she regret it, will she not? Will she revert? Nora really never lets us know. Maybe yes, maybe, no. Great!
Mod
