The Mookse and the Gripes discussion
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Booker Prize for Fiction
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2021 Booker Prize Speculation
Paul wrote: "From Australia - The Living Sea of Waking Dreams and The Yield are both very strong contenders. ."Definitely but its got to the stage that I suspect publishers no longer enter Australian books for the Booker/Women's Prize (albeit Living Sea … is a free entry I think as a past winner)
It was the capital "I" than threw me.But most of the interesting international options for the Booker prize are eligible for the International version due to this odd feature of most people not speaking English as their first language!
Paul wrote: "Whereabouts is eligible for the International version.Hope The Great Circle doesn't make it - lots of mentions of the word "epic" in reviews which usually means one thing.... - but would be good ..."
Planning to read both The Living Sea of Waking Dreams (extremely interesting author talk on that at Hay Festival yesterday) and The Yield as soon as I can. Both sound excellent. I wouldn't think Great Circle is Booker-style, despite the great reviews.
They are both brilliant - I would say both would be worth winners of the prize let along longlist contenders but just look at the stats for ANZ nominees since Flanagan last won (I think its one nominee in 7 years - so 1% of longlisted books)
I wasn't a massive fan of The Living Sea as I thought it was a mess - more like a typical debut novel with too many things going on. But I can see the other point of view that it's a great novel. Although he is a straight white male so can't possibly win apparently per John Banville and others, and indeed that's why he failed to win in 2014 and the judges awarded the prize to Ali Smith instead despite her novel being much better than his and winning almost everything else.
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Whereabouts is surely not eligible - its self translated like The Perfect NineAnd Cusk American? Wow I had never thought of it like that - I know she was born in Canada but to British parents, li..."
Trying to include Canada and extending America for all novels stemming from the hemisphere.
But how is she Canadian really.
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Paul wrote: "Sam wrote: "Anyone been considering the International options?"Sam as for International options - the 2022 Listopia is here https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1......"
I did mean the English Booker and used Internatonal instead of Commonwealth to include all non UK novels including US. I think the group has the UK eligible covered pretty well but the rest of the world seems spotty. The American nominees usually have a big publisher hyped book that has mixed reviews, (like The New Wilderness) an older favorite author, (Tyler, Ondaatje) something topical or diverse, (Such a Fun Age) or a book from a recognized great (Overstory, Lincoln in the Bardo). I think Ishiguro fits the older favorite author category this year, so I would not expect an American in that role. Lots to consider for other categories.
BTW, we probably could benefit from a 2022 International Booker eligible list.
The Yield is eligible? It seems 2 years old now. How about The Rain Heron? Is that eligible?
I repeat Whereabouts seemed weak to me. I don't think it rates a nomination. The Anuk Arudpragasam
has different titles depending on where published. It is also known as In Search of the Distance.
Paul I feel your pain on epics.
The Canadians acknowledge Cusk as one of their own was what I meant. So she can get a nomination and it can be considered American
Wikipedia has Cusk has Canadian but per ELLE magazine:ELLE: You were born in Canada, right?
Rachel Cusk: I was born in Canada, but we left when I was a small baby and moved to L.A. We stayed there until I was eight, then we moved to a village in Suffolk in England. And I went to boarding school, and then I went to university, and that was that.
As much as I'd love to be a Canadian female novelist, that's a token piece of nationality, really.
But when she was Giller Prize listed she discovered she was Canadian after all: https://globalnews.ca/news/2337470/ca...
Perhaps a citizen of nowhere like all the best people
Sam wrote: "BTW, we probably could benefit from a 2022 International Booker eligible list."That was the link I posted: https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1...
For the US how about The Other Black Girl - that’s as bonkers and topical a book as I have read for a long time and it’s set in the publishing industry.
Paul wrote: "Sam wrote: "BTW, we probably could benefit from a 2022 International Booker eligible list."That was the link I posted: https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1..."
Duh! Even when I do read I miss half the words. Thanks Paul.
Cusk comes across as extremely English I think.
I'm Canadian and would love to claim Cusk, but I feel it's just the Canadians being a bit pathetic as per usual... anyone is a Canadian as long as they're famous and some tenuous link can be established. To me she seems extremely English. Her first novel had a Canadian character with some pretty dodgy slang, in my opinion.
Ali Smith this morning in a Guardian feature on “Books to Inspire Change” (most other author’s picked older, mainly non fiction books - Nina Stubbs picked “No One is Talking About This”) “Books, and all the arts, naturally and endlessly inspire change because they free up the possibilities between reality and the imagination, and the possibilities for change in us. They never stop doing this. It’s one of the reasons the current powers that be are hellbent on controlling the arts, devaluing them, removing easy access to them and controlling history’s narratives. Last week I read a debut novel called Assembly by Natasha Brown. It’s a quiet, measured call to revolution. It’s about everything that has changed and still needs to change, socially, historically, politically, personally. It’s slim in the hand, but its impact is massive; it strikes me as the kind of book that sits on the faultline between a before and an after. I could use words like elegant and brilliantly judged and literary antecedents such as Katherine Mansfield/Toni Morrison/Claudia Rankine. But it’s simpler than that. I’m full of the hope, on reading it, that this is the kind of book that doesn’t just mark the moment things change, but also makes that change possible.”
I have to say I loved the novella - published this Thursday - also
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "For the US how about The Other Black Girl - that’s as bonkers and topical a book as I have read for a long time and it’s set in the publishing industry."It is all of those things, and it's on ever summer buzz book list that's come out so far, but I have a hard time imagining it as a Booker book, I must say.
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Cusk comes across as extremely English I think."GY, completely agree. I've always thought of her as English (and of her work as quite English in its approach and affect).
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Ali Smith this morning in a Guardian feature on “Books to Inspire Change” (most other author’s picked older, mainly non fiction books - Nina Stubbs picked “No One is Talking About This”) “Books, ..."
Two things:
First, I am hearing more and more wonderful things about Assembly, which is only making me more eager to read it.
Second, Stibbe interviewed Lockwood at 10 pm Wales time to close yesterday's Hay Festival sessions. It was a fascinating 30 minutes of discussion and made me even more appreciate of what Lockwood achieved.
The Rain Heron is one of only two from Miles Franklin list that I put on my Wish List. I’m wary of The Great Circle; widely popular books usually disappoint me. I’m interested in what you’ll think of it, Cindy and Sam. A Passage North looks promising, this is one I hope to read.
WndyJW wrote: "The Rain Heron is one of only two from Miles Franklin list that I put on my Wish List. I’m wary of The Great Circle; widely popular books usually disappoint me. I’m interested in what you’ll think ..."I probably won't get to Great Circle till it makes a longlist. I have quite a few books planned already and I'm still catching up 2020, have at least twenty obtained or on hold for 2021, and meanwhile, I'm reading classics and nonfiction. Lol.
Cindy I just read Assembly for the second time and thought it was great - it’s a very short read, really a novella. On The Other Black Girl I would suggest to read it as soon as possible and as blind as possible - the book will quickly be spoilt by MSM reviews I think.
My library has 240 holds on The Other Black Girl prior to release.
Only 32 holds at my library Sam. I just checked. And GY, I will certainly read it.
I actually don’t think it would be a great Booker choice - maybe a longlister to draw readers to the list. It’s a little too oddball
Just put a hold on it, The Other Black Girl, at my library and I managed to be first in line, so hopefully will come in very soon after release.
I've been waiting on The Great Mistake by Jonathan Lee. Guardian had a positive review today and mentioned the author is British. I haven't sampled it but if it meets expectations, it could be a contender.Once again, stressing the number of good eligible books, I wonder if we will have a sampler of different styles and topics or a potpourri of
different books with shared connections.
I am not sure how the UK is recovering from the pandemic, but I wonder will there be an optimism reflected if things are getting more normalized?
I might try to get that - will remind of when I worked in New York pre Covid. Not really sure a book on New York history is a great choice for the Booker though - we had a New York living British born author winning last year of course but with a book set very firmly in Thatcherite Glasgow. Re optimism well our prime minister is both his fans and detractors would agree a strong optimist (which he has naturally transferred to Covid) - I think people would just disagree on whether to add natural/inspiring or deluded/lying before optimist.
At least if I take Twitter as a guide I would say most of the U.K. literary world is firmly in the pessimistic camp over Covid partly because optimism kind of lines you up with the prime minister.
The Great Mistake sounds quite good but is getting surprisingly little attention here. Given its subject matter, I would expect it to be more interesting to people living on the East Coast of the US than in the UK.
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "I actually don’t think it would be a great Booker choice - maybe a longlister to draw readers to the list. It’s a little too oddball"Agree. It sounds from the descriptions like more of a psychological thriller than anything else.
Do you walk around NYC when you’re there for business, GY? I’ll read The Great Mistake and get it for my friends who live in NJ, after living in NYC for many years.NYC is too cleaned up now, but we still love it.
Edited to add: I just ordered The Other Black Girl, so I might not orders The Great Mistake. (I’m getting better at not ordering every book as soon I hear of it.)
Not as much as I should wendy and I will definitely address that when I return.
If nothing else go the lower east side and tour the Tenement Museum. They restored an old building and returned (I think) 4 apts to pre-regulation and post regulation and have actors playing the roles of real families that lived there, they tell you the family’s immigration story, talk about life in 19th and early 20th century Manhattan, and what happens to them after arriving in NYC. And of course Ellis Island, but my favorite is the Tenement Museum.
Perhaps sometime in the future if you have a visit of a couple days my friend and I could meet you and tour the museum together. I visit my friend in NJ a couple of times a year and it’s less than an hour by train into the city from NJ.
Cindy wrote: "The Great Mistake sounds quite good but is getting surprisingly little attention here. Given its subject matter, I would expect it to be more interesting to people living on the East Coast of the U..."Wasn’t mentioned in this week’s NY Times article on 15 new books coming in June or this week’s Washington Post “20 Books to Read This Summer” feature. Quite the oversights for the Guardian reviewer’s “likely to be the best American novel of the year”. I read Lee’s previous novel High Dive and was really impressed so even though I live in a rural flyover state I’ll probably pick it up at some point.
I lived in Manhattan for 9 years until a couple years ago. It’s sad what Covid has done to the city. It will bounce back though, but it will take years before it’s back to the NYC I lived in. Midtown may never be the same.
It bounced back after 9/11 and will bounce back from covid.I would have loved to live in the city when I was young and had no kids.
Rereading Assembly, it really is exceptional. I will be surprised and extremely disappointed if this isn’t on the list.Odd review of it today in the Guardian which while generally positive comments “Brown’s beautifully crafted brevity is stylistically potent, but can feel like an excuse for not fleshing out her story.” I think “padded out” is the phrase, not fleshed out and let’s praise an author, particularly a debut author, for deciding 300 pages and multiple additional stories aren’t needed when it’s so much more powerful in 100.
Paul you and others on here have convinced me, need to get my hands on a copy of Assembly.
I agree that Assembly says more, and more effectively, than many books three times the size. Also the length fits with the monologue form perfectly.
And to be fair with the review it opens pretty much with that exact sentiment “Within a neat 100 pages, Natasha Brown’s precise, powerful debut novel says more about Britain’s colonial legacy and what it’s like trying to exist within that as a black British woman than most could achieve with three times the space.”
Just then can’t resist deciding perhaps it would have been better “fleshed out”.
Just finished Dead Souls which I liked a lot, almost 5 stars and actually which has a lot to say about privilege in publishing amongst other topics. Perhaps a little too publishing focused though for wide appeal.
Haha, and I haven't even read the Guardian review yet ;)
A favourite passage on a re-read (love the maths reference as well to one of my favourite proofs) about colonialism:It’s evident now, obvious in retrospect as the proof of root-two’s irrationality, that these world superpowers are neither infallible, nor superior. They’re nothing, not without a brutally enforced relativity. An organized, systematic brutality that their soft and sagging children can scarcely stomach – won’t even acknowledge. Yet cling to as truth. There was never any absolute, no decree from God. Just viscous, random chance. And then, compounding.
I read read this weekend also (I think I probably promoted your re read) and I highlighted the exact same passage. I am not addicted to books being shirt but here the brevity works well and gives the reader the space for reflection. I can’t see this being a comfortable read for anyone in the U.K. regardless of their politics as it poses lots of difficult questions
I just found an ARC on eBay. The US and Canada have much to be uncomfortable about as well.
WndyJW wrote: "I just found an ARC on eBay. The US and Canada have much to be uncomfortable about as well."Oop. Those are not supposed to be sold but good find!
I have read the Guardian review now - I think it’s pretty weak (like I have to say so many mainstream media reviews) and in fact I think the author skewers people with views like the reviewers in the book. One to discuss more if this gets shortlisted.
Areeb wrote: "WndyJW wrote: "I just found an ARC on eBay. The US and Canada have much to be uncomfortable about as well."Oop. Those are not supposed to be sold but good find!"
I have a number of ARCs, but I alway buy the book when it is published so I don’t feel like I’m stealing from the author and publisher.
I sometimes find ARCs on eBay as well, but like WndyJ it’s usually a book I’m highly anticipating and will buy a hardcover copy when it comes out anyway. I recently bid on an ARC of Richard Powers’ Bewilderment that ended up selling for $179.50. Yikes. I don’t get many ARCs normally. I guess I need to start writing reviews.
WndyJW wrote: "Areeb wrote: "WndyJW wrote: "I just found an ARC on eBay. The US and Canada have much to be uncomfortable about as well."Oop. Those are not supposed to be sold but good find!"
I have a number of..."
Publishers have relatively recently woken up to the idea that librarians should be marketed along with booksellers, and as a result I get a fair number of ARCs, sometimes randomly but mostly simply by asking. I always put them in one of the local little free libraries when I'm done (unless they are signed, which also sometimes happens). My current load includes Cloud Cuckoo Land (the new Anthony Doerr), How to Find Your Way in the Dark (the new Derek Miller) and Once There Were Wolves (the new Charlotte McConaghy). I'd be happy to send any along to anyone who wants.
Cindy wrote: "WndyJW wrote: "Areeb wrote: "WndyJW wrote: "I just found an ARC on eBay. The US and Canada have much to be uncomfortable about as well."Oop. Those are not supposed to be sold but good find!"
I h..."
Did you read the new Anthony Doerr?
Generally whenever I request an ARC, I end up buying a couple of books from their website. Considering the cost of postage, I thin it's only fair.
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The Mookse and the Gripes
Books mentioned in this topic
The First Woman (other topics)The Great Mistake (other topics)
The Island of Missing Trees (other topics)
Savage Tongues (other topics)
Insatiable (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Frederick Forsyth (other topics)Jordan Tannahill (other topics)
Sarah Hall (other topics)
Katie Kitamura (other topics)
Tara June Winch (other topics)
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Sam as for International options - the 2022 Listopia is here https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1......"
I don't think that is what Sam meant - I assume he meant international options for the 2021 Booker prize (ie non Australian, American, Canadian. British/Irish)