The Mookse and the Gripes discussion
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Booker Prize for Fiction
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2021 Booker Prize Speculation
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Paul
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Jul 23, 2021 02:19PM
“Now you’re just being mean,” says the person who took the mickey out of me twice for a typo :-)
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You’re right, and I pointedly excluded you from my sad story about my puppy mill dog. I take it all back. I can’t take the mickey out of the guy who got Ducks, Newburyport inscribed to me and covered the cost of shipping. You’re a good egg, Paul.
Well I did have to bite my tongue (or remove the batteries from my keyboard) on the puppy farm story.
I’m sure it’s been mentioned but Rowan Williams praised Tomb Guardians - possible longlisting??
Thinking if the judges would like to include a novel from Australia (radical thought!) that takes its inspiration from the climate-change triggered bushfires, then they don't need to pick Richard Flanagan's overwrought effort. The Performance would be a much better choice.
The Performance is one of the few eligible titles that I've read and I would love to see it on the list. There's an actor on the judging panel this year so she might want to champion a book like that. If it has been entered at all, that is. I'm under the impression that publishers simply do not bother submitting Australian fiction for prizes.
The entry rules for the Booker, with limited submissions per publisher, do end up becoming a bit self perpetuating in terms of the books featured. Ie they never feature X so let’s not enter that / they seem to like Y so let’s pick that instead. Unfortunately necessary to have restrictions due to sheer number of eligible books and the prestige of the prize . (Most prizes seems to be in the camp of begging for entries)
I've been reading along here and it has just sunk in for me that Rowan Williams is a judge this year. His Tanner lectures "On Empathy" kept me sane, for a while, when my children were young. From the U.S. side this is a very interesting choice of judge.
I think it’s great when Theologians/philosophers are judges - it usually means an interesting selection of books.
I could not agree more - fellow Christian (although a very open minded and ecumenical one), lover of literature and a Gooner. Not quite sure the first three letters of your post work though Lark.
I think we may see some interesting choices. On The Performance it has inspired me to watch the Beckett play itself this evening - 60th anniversary production. First live theatre for me post Covid - feeling hopefully full of antibodies now with two vaccine shots plus having caught it recently (mild due to vaccines).
Not quite sure the first three letters of your post work though Lark."True. Amended.
As a Catholic who is drawn to the Jesuit side of my faith I'm energized by Rowan Williams's intellectualism and thoughtfulness, a side of faith that is in retreat in the US.
The only living American religious intellectual I can think of off-hand is Marilynne Robinson.
And you can probably guess that RW is a huge fan of MR
OK I think I am going to be in a minority of one here (Paul, Neil and Roman Clodia struggled I think to muster more than a couple of stars between them) but once I had got through my initial difficulties I really enjoyed Wole Soyinka's "Chronicles from the Land of the Happiest People on Earth"https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
As my review says its a book which makes no concessions to accessibility or approachability for UK (or even I think non-Nigerian) readers - which can make it very difficult to follow. It demands patience and persistence but in my view (and this is where I am alone I think) rewards it amply.
It reminded me a lot of "Ministry of Utmost Happiness" as I
explain in my review but I much preferred this.
Oddly it also reminded me of Shadow King, This Mournable Body and even Burnt Sugar on last year's longlist - all of which I preferred reviewing/thinking about than actually reading.
I really struggle to see how Obiama does not longlist this (the two are longstanding fans of each other's work) - unless they decide to ignore Ishiguro as well. But I think the idea of two nobel prize winners on one longlist will be appealing though especially with what seems to be a serious panel.
PS - the book has more typos and errors than I would expect even for a NetGalley proof but I assume these will be fixed.
I doubt I will read another eligible book before Monday night so here is my ranking of the 67 I have read on the Listopia (it excludes 4-5 books I did not read enough of before abandoning to rate)https://www.goodreads.com/list/user_v...
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "OK I think I am going to be in a minority of one here (Paul, Neil and Roman Clodia struggled I think to muster more than a couple of stars between them) but once I had got through my initial diffic..."Glad you liked Chronicle of the Happiest. That bodes well for me.
I have read six of your top ten and am reading Second Place now. I rate Popisho and The Other Black Girl higher, and Open Water and Little Scratch lower than you. The only one I read (which you didn't) and would make my top ten is A Passage North. Wish you read that one because I would have been interested in your thoughts.
I saw on Twitter that Rowan Williams praises The Tomb Guardians, but forgot that he is a Booker judge. I looked at Williams’ Twitter page and saw that he is a religious figure, but didn’t see what he said about The Tomb Guardians. It would fantastic if it was Booker nominated.
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "As my review says its a book which makes no concessions to accessibility or approachability for UK (or even I think non-Nigerian) readers - which can make it very difficult to follow. It demands patience and persistence but in my view (and this is where I am alone I think) rewards it amply.."I don't think it makes any concessions to the normal standards of competent writing that readers expect from a novel either, which was my issue.
I am pretty sure the typos are there because the proof readers all abandoned it after the first chapter and/or assumed that given the standard of the writing they were perhaps deliberate.
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "I doubt I will read another eligible book before Monday night so here is my ranking of the 67 I have read on the Listopia (it excludes 4-5 books I did not read enough of before abandoning to rate)..."
Of your top 13 I've read 12. I'd concur on Second Place (*), Assembly, The Yield and Little Scratch. And Panenka and Transcendent Kingdom would be very close to my list
And some just outside your top 13 would be on mine (The Performance, Fox Fires, Mrs Death Misses Death).
Some others though would be on my "what were the judges smoking" list if they appeared! The Flanagan, McGregor, Soyinka, Ishiguro in particular - all of which I refer to deliberately by author name as on a blind-read, as opposed to by author prior reputation, I don't think they should be anywhere near consideration, the last two in particular.
* although was Second Place being in 1st place an error - you gave it 4 stars but is top of your list ahead of 19 other books with 5 stars?
WndyJW wrote: "I saw on Twitter that Rowan Williams praises The Tomb Guardians, but forgot that he is a Booker judge. I looked at Williams’ Twitter page and saw that he is a religious figure, but didn’t see what ..."Wasn't it a blurb he'd provided that they will presumably add to the mass-version of the novel?
Although on the novel's page on the website so far they have blurbs by two of our contributors here - "Robert Pisani – The Bobsphere" and by "Neil – Goodreads member" both for Mr Beethoven.
https://www.henninghamfamilypress.co....
Tracy wrote: "Our panel’s predictions at The Reader’s Room are up: https://thereadersroom.org/2021/07/24..."
I like Nicole's #8 "something by a big name, a brilliant writer, but wrote a book which isn’t necessarily booker worthy (Klara)"
Ishiguro, Soyinka, McGregor, Flanagan. Tóibín and Spufford are all fighting hard for that slot!
Sounds like Second Place may be an error - it was meant to be a 4.5 in a category of its own. To be honest I find ordering lists on Goodreads a frustrating and haphazard process.
I have actually read Klara now - I keep forgetting that my review was a pre publication one based in the launch interview - and will be slightly demoting it. I did enjoy and very much appreciate it but much more in the context of his body of work than as a stand-alone (although that is true of course of how Ishiguro writes).
Key with Goodreads lists is to do them as you go rather than attempt in one go. It is oddly slow each time just to insert one book. And if you attempt to change the ranking of more than one book it gets very confused. On Klara that does explain your 5 star rating. As with a number of other books tipped here, reading them rather ruins the experience.
My final 131. Assembly
2. This One Sky Day
3. The Yield
4. Checkout 19
5. Second Place
6. Little Scratch
7. Mrs Death Misses Death
8. The Performance
9. Luckenbooth
10. Fox Fires
11. My Phantoms
12. Diary of a Film
13. In the End It was All About Love (currently reading)
I've excluded ones which while I love are probably too innovative for the Booker (e.g. Sterling Karat Gold, Aphasia, Dead Souls, Siphonophore) - although as Aphasia is Oneworld perhaps it has a chance
Looking forward to what the judges pick. The only book that is non-negotiable for me is Assembly.
And more generally there surely has to be a significant representation of UK/Irish BAME writers this time. There are - purely on merit alone - 5 on my list, and there is also Open Water (didn't click for me but highly regarded) and ones I haven't read such as We Are All Birds of Uganda, The First Woman, Peaces and The Day I Fell of My Island.
Mod
Not really predictions, just my thoughts:The one I'd like to push into everybody's hands: Assembly
The clever one: Second Place
The quirky, innovative one: Mrs Death Misses Death
My personal favourite: My Phantoms
Would be happy with all four of those
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "I doubt I will read another eligible book before Monday night so here is my ranking of the 67 I have read on the Listopia (it excludes 4-5 books I did not read enough of before abandoning to rate)..."
I've taken a good look at your list since our reading tastes seem to align more often than not. I don't think Little Scratch worked as well for me as for you and I would definitely have This One Sky Day in the top 13, I am not feeling enthusiastic about the Soyinka, I have to say, and it appears I need to get my hands on The Performance.
Paul wrote: "My final 131. Assembly
2. This One Sky Day
3. The Yield
4. Checkout 19
5. Second Place
6. Little Scratch
7. Mrs Death Misses Death
8. The Performance
9. Luckenbooth
10. Fox Fires
11. My Phantoms
..."
Good list, although again, I'm not as much a fan of Little Scratch and have not read a few of those. I can't imagine Assembly not being on the longlist, frankly, but I also somehow can't imagine it winning.
Paul wrote: "Tracy wrote: "Our panel’s predictions at The Reader’s Room are up: https://thereadersroom.org/2021/07/24..."
I like Nicole's #8 "something by a big name, a brillian..."
I also like her # 9: "something nobody has ever heard of and is on nobody’s list and won’t be published before the shortlist" That's quite funny and regrettably almost certain to be true.
Roman Clodia wrote: "Not really predictions, just my thoughts:The one I'd like to push into everybody's hands: Assembly
The clever one: Second Place
The quirky, innovative one: Mrs Death Misses Death
My personal favourite: My Phantoms
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Would be happy with all four of those"
Agreed - indeed all 4 on my list
I have read back to post 320 and compiled a list of wishes/predictions from those I could easily see. Actually not many from people posting here - most are links to bloggers/booktubers - and I haven't included the Listopia as that's a separate list.
I've compiled here which I think anyone can edit if anyone wants to add their own prediction or any I have missed:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
The Listopia has: 39 Klara & The Sun
31 Transcendent Kingdom
22 The Yield; The Living Sea of Waking Dreams
19 Second Place
18 Assembly
14 Lean, Fall, Stand; No One is Talking About This; Open Water
13 Popisho; The Committed
12 Unsettled Ground; The Promise
Given some comments on Little Scratch I would think it would be almost a conflict for the judges to include anyway given one of them and the author are very close colleagues at the FT Arts Section.
I can't help myself and need to make a prediction of my own, having read fewer than half of these books:(In no particular order)
1. Assembly - Natasha Brown (okay, maybe some particular order)
2. Bewilderment - Richard Powers
3. This One Sky Day/Popisho - Leone Ross
4. Insignificance - James Clammer
5. Klara and the Sun - Kazuo Ishiguro
6. Transcendent Kingdom - Yaa Gyasi
7. Cloud Cuckoo Land - Anthony Doerr
8. Second Place - Rachel Cusk
9. Lean Fall Stand - John McGregor
10. Detransition, Baby - Torrey Peters
11. No One Is Talking About This - Patricia Lockwood
12. The Yield - Tara June Winch
13. We Are All Birds of Uganda - Hafsa Zayyan
I still can’t get the Doerr. The others are all worth a place.
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "I still can’t get the Doerr. The others are all worth a place."I’m reading it now. And have been for weeks now. I’m having trouble getting into it- it’s not bad, but just isn’t holding my attention.
Tracy wrote: "Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "I still can’t get the Doerr. The others are all worth a place."I’m reading it now. And have been for weeks now. I’m having trouble getting into it- it’s no..."
It took me awhile to get through it as well. I enjoyed it throughout (although one storyline much less so than the others), but it wasn't the type of book that grabbed you and left you itching to come back for more. That said, I read the final one-third of the book in one sitting, as I was hooked in the end. My prediction of its longlisting is based on the overall subject-matter, themes, and Doerr's pedigree, and also it is very well-written.
My predictions are below. I read the first 12 and just started #13 (Popisho). 1. Second Place by Rachel Cusk
2. The Yield by Tara June Winch
3. The Performance by Claire Thomas
4. Assembly by Natasha Brown
5. Unsettled Ground by Claire Fuller
6. little scratch by Rebecca Watson
7. Of Women and Salt by Gabriela Garcia
8. The Living Sea of Waking Dreams by Richard Flanagan
9. The Dictionary of Lost Words by Pip Williams
10. Klara and the Sun by Kazuo Ishiguro
11. Transcendent Kingdom by Yaa Gyasi
12. No One Is Talking About This by Patricia Lockwood
Currently reading:
13. This One Sky Day/Popisho by Leone Ross
Tempted to add Lean Fall Stand based on what I've heard about it. (I loved Reservoir 13).
Tom wrote: "Tracy wrote: "Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "I still can’t get the Doerr. The others are all worth a place."I’m reading it now. And have been for weeks now. I’m having trouble getting in..."
That’s good to know, since I received an ARC- I feel obligated to finish it. When I am reading, I like it.
I think summer activities are just taking my attention right now. And the Olympics. Who knew fencing and skateboarding were so interesting?
I posted my predictions on Instagram last week:https://www.instagram.com/p/CRlRPuNLpQd/
They are:
1. Assembly by Natasha Brown
2. Second Place by Rachel Cusk (my favourite Cusk so far)
3. Klara and the Sun by Kazuo Ishiguro
4. Bewilderment by Richard Powers
5. The Living Sea of Waking Dreams by Richard Flanagan
6. This One Sky Day by Leone Ross
7. The Book of Form and Emptiness by Ruth Ozeki (she was shortlisted in 2013; perhaps this is her year?)
8. The Making of Incarnation by Tom McCarthy
9. Checkout 19 by Claire-Louise Bennett
10. The High House by Jessie Greengrass
11. Palmares by Gayl Jones
12. Tenderness by Alison MacLeod
13. My Phantoms by Gwendoline Riley
Bonus guesses:
The Magician by Colm Toibin
China Room by Sunjeev Sahota
I'm a bit perplexed on how to evaluate Second Place. I find it is getting a lot of respect here, but after I started reading it, I only managed a third before wanting to know if Jeffers was based on Robinson Jeffers, and sought out the book upon which it is predicated, Lorenzo in Taos. This puts me in a quandary since now having read a few pages of the source, there is no way way my impression of Second place would be same if I read the novel without reading the source. In a way Second Place is the dreaded sequel that we had joked about earlier, since full critical appreciation would demand the reading of Lorenzo in Taos. Another issue is that Lorenzo in Taos is good and kind of tilts the one's favor towards Second Place. I guess my question is, does any of this matter to those who have read the book? I would like to know whether any of you either read or did not read Lorenzo in Taos, to see how you felt it influenced your reading of Second Place.
Sam wrote: "I'm a bit perplexed on how to evaluate Second Place. I find it is getting a lot of respect here, but after I started reading it, I only managed a third before wanting to know if Jeffers was based o..."I have not read Lorenzo in Taos, yet. What struck me about Second Place was the way it built on themes in Cusk's earlier works, while adapting them for the plot of Lorenzo. These themes include: fiction versus truth, art versus reality, our endless capacity for self-delusion, and the use of language as a means of living inside time, but also outside it:
"There’s a certain point in life at which you realise it’s no longer interesting that time goes forward – or rather, that its forward-going-ness has been the central plank of life’s illusion, and that while you were waiting to see what was going to happen next, you were steadily being robbed of all you had. Language is the only thing capable of stopping the flow of time, because it exists in time, is made of time, yet it is eternal – or can be." (p 142)
Or put differently:
"Some people write simply because they don’t know how to live in the moment and have to reconstruct it and live in it afterwards."
It made me go back and re-evaluate the Outline trilogy entirely.
Sam wrote: "I'm a bit perplexed on how to evaluate Second Place. I find it is getting a lot of respect here, but after I started reading it, I only managed a third before wanting to know if Jeffers was based o..."Cusk herself has said she didn't particularly feel one needed to know it was based on Lorenzo in Taos, which is why she reveals it at the end. Indeed she "really really hesitated" before "disclosing" the connection, and was concerned that it would rather derail people's focus on what she was trying to achieve in the novel. And indeed, she feels that is what has happened.
For example it would be wrong to read the book as about Mabel Dodge Luhan or about DH Lawrence, instead it is almost a formal constraint on the novel (and perhaps some Easter Eggs for the attentive reader).
And there is rather more going on as well - the artist (L) isn't based on DH Lawrence at all, but rather Lovis Corinth. The devil in the opening scene is from Death in Venice etc.
But overall it does make this more of a Goldsmiths than a Booker book. But that of course is a very good thing imho!
But_i_thought_ wrote: "I posted my predictions on Instagram last week:https://www.instagram.com/p/CRlRPuNLpQd/
They are:
1. Assembly by Natasha Brown
2. Second Place by Rachel Cusk (my ..."
Thanks - I love how Second Place is in 2nd place :-)
But_i_thought_ wrote: "Sam wrote: "I'm a bit perplexed on how to evaluate Second Place. I find it is getting a lot of respect here, but after I started reading it, I only managed a third before wanting to know if Jeffers..."Hmmm, interesting. I will think about the trilogy after i finish the novel and see if my opinion is changed. I will also pursue this question again once the list is released if Second Place makes it. I suggest you sample the Mabel Dodge Luhan prose. It is wonderful on its own and you can see if it alters your perception of the novel.
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The Mookse and the Gripes
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