The Mookse and the Gripes discussion
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Booker Prize for Fiction
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2021 Booker Prize Speculation
Milkman was the last book covered in the Guardian's roundup of the Booker longlist, and one of the most cursorily covered. People were very wrapped up in The Overstory and Everything Under. (Personally, I'm just delighted they recognised Sabrina.)
Mr Hobgoblin had read other Anna Burns books I believe (so knew and really liked the author unlike the rest of us - remember he is originally from Northern Ireland). With Hugh and I, he read it almost immediately post longlist and we all said how excellent it was (but divisive it was likely to be) at the time when we were all rather overreacting to the crime book and graphic novel (actually the crime book turned out to be an under-reaction). I recall MHG was able to place all of the locations in the book to real places in Belfast.
Yes I think MisterHobgoblin was aware it existed (first post on thread "This is one that I am especially excited by. I had wanted to read it but couldn't slot it in before the Bookerthon") whereas most of us were in the Anna who and Milkwhat camp.
Paul wrote: "Yes corrected my post as I'd forgotten your timing there - very good call.Didn't Mr Hobgoblin call Milkman? (or at least speak very highly of it as soon as it appeared)"
Mr. Hobgoblin called The Sellout
Bet was at the Longlist stage. Also predicated Girl Woman Other last year. Always fun to speculate. This year there are stilla few books I want to read before putting in official predictions. Assembly top of the list atm.
Cloud Cuckooland - still to read
Bewilderment - still to read
I remember Mr Hobgoblin called Lincoln in the Bardo around it’s publication date, which was sometime around January or February in the year that it won
Cloud Cuckoo Land is the book I would like to but won’t be able to read pre longlist.
Good job, Jo! I will get your opinion when the Longlist is out and place come bets myself. My sons bet on sports, I can bet on books!I was just having a chat with myself, reminding me that the Booker Longlist is coming soon and the Warwick Women in Translation list, so perhaps I should take a break from ordering every book that catches my interest.
Last year I had to choose which list to read for, this year I think I can read for both. I read a total of 70 books in 2020, as of this date I’ve read 58.5 (half of The Iliad) books in 2021. Not doom scrolling, waiting to see what nightmare occurred with he-who-shall-never-be-mentioned by me again, has had a very positive effect on my mental bandwidth and use of time.
Another Booktuber Jasmine Reads who seems widely read Her main predictions
Klara and the Sun
Transcendent Kingdom
Luster
Bewilderment
Dinner Party
The Prophets
Open Water
Beautiful World Where Are You
Harlem Shuffle
Assembly
Still Life
Women of Troy
This One Sky Day
All of these I think have been in other lists (and although she has read many she says she is drawing on hype/other predictions) except possibly the Pat Barker Silence of The Girls sequel (she seemed least confident on this one). I would say the Sarah GIlmartin book (which by coincidence I read today) is the other slightly unusual choice. I have not read Rooney or Whitehead.
She also has three books that she has not read and does not know much about but which would not surprise her on the list
Lean Fall Stand
Unsettled Ground
We Are All Birds of Uganda
She had two books which she loved by Indy publishers but I think feels likely too transgressive for the prize
Absorbed by Kylie Whitehead and published by a Dead Ink/Influx joint venture. Robert has the main Goodreads review here and loved it I think.
Bear by Marian Engel published by Daunt Books (Although she fears the 1976 Canada publication date could be an issue here - I am not really sure on that one).
The Women of Troy doesn’t come out until end of August. As do Bewilderment and Cloud Cuckoo.
Not sure I follow?
Just that I’m in a huff now, because I forgot these books aren’t available yet. You can’t read tone of voice or you would have known that I was whining or whinging as you say it.
Eligibility is until end September.
Who is the author of Dinner Party? I can’t find any reviews of a recently released or anticipated novel of that title,
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...Sarah Gilmartin - who reviews fiction (particularly debut literary fiction such as recently Open Water and Little Scratch) for The Irish Times
Publisher is double-Booker Int shortlisted, double Obama Summer reads Pushkin Press
I would say one for fans of Anne Enright
Thanks, Gumble, I see you only gave it 3 stars. You’re generous in your reviews so that doesn’t speak well of this book, or is 3 not a bad rating for you? Very good review, as usual. :)
I think Absorbed is excellent but I can’t see it Booker material
“Booker material” has changed since 2017 so who can say. Who would have thought Normal People was Booker material or The New Wilderness?
I just finished little scratch, which I should have finished the same day I started it, but I found my interest starting to lag half way through. I think it was a smart, interesting style, but for me, if it had been shorter, like Assembly, it would have been more impactful. This is about a rape and the struggle to not think about it and to continue to have a healthy sexual relationship with a loving partner, but too often the emotional component for me got lost in the effort of making sense of the page layout, although I did feel her fear when she had to interact with her boss.
It was an interesting style, but not completely original. Exquisite Cadavers by Meena Kandasamy and other authors have been creative with page layouts, autofiction about troubled women is an all too common trope, and a lot of us read a book that was over 1000 pages of a woman’s non-linear inner monologue.
Still though, I liked it and would recommend it, with the warning that there are some violent images of rape.
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Bear by Marian Engel published by Daunt Books (Although she fears the 1976 Canada publication date could be an issue here - I am not really sure on that one)."That is was published in another country previously is not an issue.
But:
That the author will be unable to take part in publicity events due to passing away in 1985 is
Ineligible
WndyJW wrote: "“Booker material” has changed since 2017 so who can say. Who would have thought Normal People was Booker material or The New Wilderness?"About 5 people in each case - unfortunately they happened to be the judges!
Does In: A Graphic Novel have a UK publisher? I’m wondering if it’s time to repeat 2018 and it’s such a hyped graphic novel.
It does it seems (can't say I have heard of it) but I really hope not (and I don't think there is a graphic novelist on the judging panel this time)
I've been generally adding books mentioned here to the eligibility listopia but I drew the line (*) at this one. And the Rooney.(* see what I did there!)
Rooney is in the top 25 on the Listopia anyway
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Rooney is in the top 25 on the Listopia anyway"Hmmm. Librarian powers may be needed. Really isn't good when friends/fans of an author vote for a clearly unsuitable book.
Actually Listopia comes up with a bizarrely blood-curdling threat whenever you try to delete a book, whereas one could quite happily change the description of the novel on the book page - or in one case that impacted me, merge two different books* - and no such message emerges
* although they were Ferrante's so the librarian might be forgiven that they sounded remarkably like the same book!
The biggest issue with the Booker Listopia are two fold(a) Every year there are 1-2 unknown (even sometimes close to self-published) books which attracts a suspicious series of votes from sock-puppet accounts - its like people think the Booker is like the Not The Booker (despite the warning that has been added to say it is not official in anyway). There was at least one this year which I know you and Doug deleted eventually. I think the current list is clear of those.
(b) Sadly at least one of the prominent voters on the Listopia distorts it by voting twice for books they like using two different accounts - so a few books that really only have 1 vote look like they have two supporters and a number of others are artificially high.
I like Sally Rooney. I just finished The Tenant of Wildfell Hall and was smiling to myself at the similarities Anne Bronte as a young writer of her peer group shared with Sally Rooney. Her novels have been forgettable for me, but she seems the mist serious author for that age group.
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Sadly at least one of the prominent voters on the Listopia distorts it by voting twice for books they like using two different accounts.."Wasn't that the same sock puppet that ruined Mookse Madness?
Yes (that and the corrupt side gambling)
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Rooney is in the top 25 on the Listopia anyway"The New Yorker excerpt is a small piece of what, according to Amazon, is a 368 page book (in the US). So it's hard to know whether it's literary enough to be Booker-worthy. But I certainly thought Normal People was Booker-worthy (Conversations with Friends less so). Rumor has it Beautiful World is more like the latter than the former, so who knows?
I only just realized you can vote on the "listopia!" Now to hem and haw over whether to vote for my faves or the ones I think will make the list...One other Booktube prediction video that I'm not sure I saw posted here: youtu.be/MQGurb4wAwo
The Booktubers have a lot of overlap between their lists, but I think they are all lacking in books from parts of the world other than UK/Ireland/US. ANZ curse aside, the past few years have usually had several entries from Africa, South Asia, and the Caribbean. I haven't dug through the eligible books yet, but I would put my money on a few of the "surprises" coming from these regions.
I hope you’re right, Nicholas. I’d love to see some ANZ books in the running.
Thanks Nicholas - the list for that one, and yes I think all ones on other lists:Klara & the sun - Kazuo Ishiguro
Still Life - Sarah Winman
China Room - Sunjeev Sahota
Before My Actual Heart breaks - Tish Delaney
Assembly - Natasha Brown
The Living Sea of Waking Dreams - Richard Flanagan
We are all birds of Uganda -Hafsa zayya
Infinite Country - Patricia Engel
Insignificance - James Clammer
Detransition, baby - Torrey Peters
Transcendent Kingdom - Yaa Gyasi
The Yield - Tara June Winch
Harlem Shuffle - Colson Whitehead
And Nicholas if there are any eligible books you like not already on the list you can vote for them as well on the Listopia - indeed books can only be added by someone voting for them.
We discussed those two YouTubers and their list in quite a lot of detail 9-10 days back on this thread so might be worth deleting the list of books Paul
It works quite well as emblematic of BookTube viewherding though to have a list of books already identical to another list of books.
I guess it being posted by a poster identical to the one who already posted it works even better
Just finished an ARC of Tenderness which I would love to see make the list.Also for African novels they will surely consider Wole Soyinka's first novel for many years
Chronicles from the land of The Happiest People on Earth.
Really feel out of the loop this year but didn't especially rate the Jon McGregor and would be a bit surprised if The Other Black Girl was seriously considered but thought The Prophets was pretty special. Otherwise haven't really read anything that is likely to have been submitted.
I'll give Assembly a go as many on here seem to rate it.
I started Chronicles from the land of The Happiest People on Earth today.And (did-not-)finished after the first three chapters. I found it a sprawling mess, reminiscent of Gunter Grass and Salman Rushdie, but when those great authors are at their self-indulgent worst.
But then my preference for compact works is well known and so this is just my taste. If it does feature on the list I'll revisit it, but a firm DNF from me for now.
WndyJW wrote: "Who is the author of Dinner Party? I can’t find any reviews of a recently released or anticipated novel of that title,"Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Sarah Gilmartin - who reviews fiction"
I dnf Dinner Party - it's not terrible if you like that kind of dysfunctional family story that roves backwards and forwards over time, uncovering secrets and traumas - but I found the narrative voice dreary and lacking character and interest, and the prose style bland.
Paul wrote: "I started Chronicles from the land of The Happiest People on Earth today.And (did-not-)finished after the first three chapters. I found it a sprawling mess, reminiscent of Gunter Grass and Salman..."
It is exactly that sprawling mess which I am anticipating. A couple years back we had The Ministry of Utmost Happiness. Like most others, I condemned the novel at the time. But at present, it is near the top of that year's longlist novels which I remember fondly. I think from reading more international books, I am developing a patience for books that aren't as defined by Western rules. Hear thar Can Xue? I have read there is some good writing in The Happiest People as well as rambling sprawl if one reads enough. I will read it through. Of course I may draw the same conclusion as Paul when finished. But one of these days one of the octogenarians might be a winner.
Sam wrote: "I am developing a patience for books that aren't as defined by Western rules."Excellent point, Sam! I also abandoned Ministry of Utmost Happiness but have added it to my 'try again' list.
Yes The Ministry of Utmost Happiness would be a good comparison. And I certainly don't remember that fondly!I read a lot of translated fiction and I think both Ministry of and Chronciles are just not well written (and poorly edited) rather than non-Western. Neither deserves mention alongside Can Xue, who really does write outside of our normal literary markers.
First, as I get older, anything I read that I can remember gets an extra star. Second, I'll suspend comment on Soyinka till I read it which won't be till September. Damned if I want to defend a novel I haven't even read yet.But let us not get too picky over this year's books. I just finished the Leone Ross, for example. The individual sentences and sensual images are wonderful but I liken it to the Raven Leilani. The structure as a whole needs work. It should make the longlist and even the shortlist, but do you actually see This One Sky Day as a winner? It is over the top and way too full of emotionally charged sensory images that if removed would leave little substance. I guess what I am saying is do we want a book about pum-pums to be a Booker winner? I'll apologize for my sass in advance. It is one of the better books I read this year.
That is an interesting comparison as that one is also definitely over the top, although the author commended herself to me by saying that originally it was about 4 times the length and this was the edited version. And yes I would be delighted to see it win.
On reflection I think the non-Western non-linear storytelling is a feature of the two books we discussed and that is a fair point. Call that factor 1.
Factor 2. At the same time both were also the first novel from that, highly acclaimed, author for a long time meaning
A) they had a lot to say - perhaps too much for one book
B) a lot of competition for the book which likely precluded any publisher suggesting it needed a good trim.
Hard to separate the two factors.
I have likely been unfair on the Soyinka and it is my personal strong dislike of anything over 200 pages (it’s only 400ish so not that long for most people). But Ministry of … was definitely an example of the Factor 2 (as well perhaps as 1).
Just read "The Performance" by Claire Thomas which Eric Lonesome Reader Anderson had on his longlist prediction and which both Marchpane and Doug (two Goodreads Booker stalwarts) rated 4.5*. Same for me (but rounded up) - its a very clever but also moving novel about three women watching a Samuel Beckett play "Happy Days"https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
I was so disappointed that I couldn’t finish Ministry of Utmost Happiness. I loved The God of Small Things, love books set in India, love the idea of the book, but it just didn’t work at all for me. It’s one of the books I purged so I won’t be giving it a second try.I’m glad you said that about One Sky Day/Popisho, Sam. I liked it, but it’s another promising book that I was enjoying, but set down and haven’t felt a strong desire to pick it back up.
I feel like I am a black rain cloud over most of the books we’ve discussed lately, something I truly don’t want to be, but other than Assembly and The Tomb Guardians I can’t think of a new release that has wowed me this year. I’ve liked a lot of books, but nothing has impressed me so I don’t have a lot of hope that I’ll be excited about the Booker longlist.
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The Mookse and the Gripes
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Didn't Mr Hobgoblin call Milkman? (or at least speak very highly of it as soon as it appeared)