The Mookse and the Gripes discussion
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Booker Prize for Fiction
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2021 Booker Prize Speculation
Cindy wrote: "Just want to say that I want to print these predictions out and put them up on my bulletin board. They've made my morning."Glad to be of service!
I don’t have Trio, Bewilderment, The First Woman, The Promise, or Lean, Fall, Stand. I’ve read enough The Yield and One Sky Day/Popisho to have a feel for them, and read Ishiguro, Wohl, Lockwood, Gyasi, and Brown; Brown should win.
Chris wrote: "Who They Was was only just published ..."It seems to be getting quite a lot of publicity there - I saw a NYT interview - probably more than it did in the UK.
I think a problem, if not this year, then soon, is how deep in diversity the judges decide to go. I think every year they risk an oversaturation of some specific current topical interest. They will probably get past this year without a problem, but I see a pressure from publisher's if the prize lists don't generate prestige and sales.
WndyJW wrote: "Brown should win..."I was just reading in the Bookerseller today that the PRH editor who commissioned Assembly also commissioned Avni Doshi and Sophie Mackintosh so has good Booker form
Sam wrote: "I think a problem, if not this year, then soon, is how deep in diversity the judges decide to go. I think every year they risk an oversaturation of some specific current topical interest. They will..."completely agree
If the judges want a topical book then surely only one choice. There is basically only one story in the U.K. (or at least English) news currently and a book about the possibility of redemption after penalty miss 25 years previously goes beyond topical to ridiculously serendipitous.
And now for the Ted Rogers bit …
One judge loves football (Rowan Williams famously watched Arsenal with the Chief Rabbi when he was Archbishop of Canterbury), one grew up wanting to be a footballer and one starred in a film about football at the behest of her football mad son and one today liked a tweet by a famous football writer colleague that began “I've been chronicling England's humiliations for 25 years.”
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "If the judges want a topical book then surely only one choice. There is basically only one story in the U.K. (or at least English) news currently and a book about the possibility of redemption af..."
So… Fever Pitch may be brought back?
No - Panenka
Has Panenka got much buzz other than among indie press fans?
Leonard and Hungry Paul ended up selling a lot of copies and getting a lot of buzz outside indie fan circles. So far on Panenka seems more to be getting attention in Ireland than UK. Perhaps as they need to read about football given they aren't in the real thing
Intimacies by Katie Kitamura is one I'd love to see on the list, published 19 August 2021. I'm reading an ARC from NetGalley and love its thoughtful engagement with ideas of intimacy and how understanding and communication are mediated and interpreted.
Also on Obama’s Summer Reads - I had requested as a result so good to hear your positive views.
One more prediction to add to Paul’s:The list will include the second or third part of a trilogy and I will go into meltdown about being “forced” to read additional books.
Any obvious contenders there Neil as series? The Pat Barker I guess is one.
Alexandria for sure, knowing how much you two liked it. ;)I’m actually kind of liking it and will finish it tonight.
I can’t seriously contemplate that appearing on the prize. I do fear it is more likely to appear on the Goldsmiths though. Still it helped fill my one star quota this year.
That’s an updated reading list from President Obama, I hadn’t seen that one.
I rather liked "Alexandria" - I found it not as good as "The Wake" (but then what is) but so much better than "The Beast". However I know many others didn't and the author I have to say has gone (or potentially always has been) rather questionable in his views and stances - so I would prefer not to see him get Booker recognition. I think if it was longlisted there would be no real need to read the first two (and definitely no need to re-read them) - its more of a thematic trilogy.There is also "The Rules of Revalation" - I think both Neil and Paul thought it was better than "The Blood Miracles" but a lot worse than "Glorious Heresies" - I started re-reading the first two in advance of an ARC of the third - as they are effectively a single story and at the very least you need a detailed plot/character summary of the first two - but in the end abandoned the attempt as realised it was effectively then a 900 page or so book and not really worth spending that long on.
Next year (but not this) "Oh, WIlliam" could be a trilogy contender and that needs a re-read of "My Name is Lucy Barton" (but not "Anything is Possible"
WndyJW wrote: "That’s an updated reading list from President Obama, I hadn’t seen that one."I think it was last night
Paul wrote: "Any obvious contenders there Neil as series? The Pat Barker I guess is one."I posted and ran away for the day, so others have answered for me! I guess I was thinking about The Rules of Revelation and Alexandria, both of which would be a bit of a nightmare for me should they be selected. But I don't think either are actually real contenders (surely?).
Of course, the greatest trilogy isn't eligible due to not being fiction. I'm talking about Deborah Levy, but maybe the judges can find a way round the fact that they aren't novels and they aren't fiction.
I was looking at the Levy books this week after I heard her talking about them in an interview. And they do seem close to fiction. She was talking about the narrator as someone distinct from, if very similar to, herself. Although I was thinking of buying book 1 and your review didn’t really persuade me, as you didn’t seem blown away by it.
Which part of “I would read her shopping lists” or “it’s a beautiful book” or “full of thought provoking comments and wonderful language” didn’t convince you?
The “shopping list” comment. As I use that for a book that is subpar for an author I love. And I don’t love Levy so much I would read a subpar book. The 4 stars as well.
Ah - ok - to me it means she writes so well even her shopping lists would be worth reading. The 4 stars was comparing to her fiction which really gets me excited.Plus parts 2 & 3 are better.
So, Paul, you would say I was so unimpressed with this writing I would read their shopping list?Marlon and James Read Dead People, currently my favorite podcast, did a show on reading books by authors who hold views we find objectionable. It was an interesting discussion and came down to read what you want.
WndyJW wrote: "So, Paul, you would say I was so unimpressed with this writing I would read their shopping list?Marlon and James Read Dead People, currently my favorite podcast, did a show on reading books by au..."
Also, you would reject a book because someone "only" gave it 4 stars?
WndyJW wrote: "Marlon and James Read Dead People, currently my favorite podcast, did a show on reading books by authors who hold views we find objectionable. It was an interesting discussion and came down to read what you want..."If that is a reference to Kingsnorth his eco-fascist and nativist views permeate his writing (in fact are almost the entire point of the trilogy)
Neil wrote: "WndyJW wrote: "So, Paul, you would say I was so unimpressed with this writing I would read their shopping list?"Also, you would reject a book because someone "only" gave it 4 stars?."
I use shopping list in the same way I think Neil does - I love this author so much I would read their shopping list, but I would tend to say that in a review which by that author's standard isn't their best - as I think Neil is saying the first of the trilogy isn't (not as good as part 2 & 3 and the novels)
But then if someone else wasn't such a massive fan of the same author I wouldn't point them to that book.
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "f that is a reference to Kingsnorth his eco-fascist and nativist views permeate his writing (in fact are almost the entire point of the trilogy)."Agreed which is why I would be extremely disappointed to see this on the Booker list. This one in particular is often just polemic.
Another Booktube prediction this time from Bob the Bookerer - who unlike say Eric is much more attuned to the Booker. I must say there are a lot of books here I also expect to see on this list even if I did not take to them personally (The two Pro- books). He actually argued with The Promise that the mixed reactions make it a good chance for the longlist as some judges may love it even if others don’t. He did do a rather early prediction a few months back so this is an updated version.
His list
Natasha Brown- Assembly
Damon Galgut- The Promise
Sarah Gilmartin- Dinner Party: A Tragedy
Yaa Gyasi- Transcendent Kingdom
Jo Hamya- Three Rooms
Ronan Hession- Panenka
Kazuo Ishiguro- Klara and the Sun
Robert Jones Jr- The Prophets
Caleb Azumah Nelson- Open Water
Torrey Peters- Detransition, Baby
Richard Powers- Bewilderment
Leone Ross- This One Sky Day
Sunjeev Sahota- China Room
Jordan Tannahill- The Listeners
A couple of comments from me
- there are 14 on the list … he discussed Three Rooms and Assembly together as he argued they are very similar in many ways, both Woolf inspired but Assembly the better and more likely choice. I would agree on all of that
- I have read or started to read all but Gilmartin and Tannahill
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "- I have read or started to read all but Gilmartin and Tannahill"Rule 9 will be fulfilled if that list is right:
"#9. Gumble will have "only" read 10 of the 13 books. Having spent the previous 3 months hunting down ARCs of every possible contender, he will then complain he has nothing new left to read for the summer."
That has I think been true of every list so far but the second half is less true as I hope to re-read the Women’s Prize shortlist in August (by the same approach I read 5 of those 6 before that longlist - most in 2020) plus have lined up some Norfolk themed novels as a contingency plan.
I'm definitely championing Kitamura's Intimacies which I've now finished: www.goodreads.com/review/show/4098544228
That or Assembly would be my top choices from all the titles being bandied about.
Powers' Bewilderment would also be on my ideal list but that'll sell anyway so doesn't need the Booker boost in the same way.
Hello!Nice to see the excitement building again, I've been looking forward to this for a long time.
Two books that sound like possible contenders to me but haven't been mentioned yet, I think - Sankofa by Chibundu Onuzo and The Fortune Men by Nadifa Mohamed. Has anyone read these?
I think there will be like with the Women's list, an abundance of qualified eligibles. I think the judges may be having to look for reasons to cull books rather than add them. I haven't read any book that seemed to be superior to the others at this point so I am very much looking forward to the list, thinking the winner is still unread by me.
They both sound great calls Paula.
I read The Wake years after it came out, end of 2020, unaware of the Kingsnorth’s nativist views. The Wake is about one mad man fighting the Norman invasion, which was ancient history so I didn’t pick up any anti-immigration views from that book, Beast wasn’t that good and I don’t remember much about it. I have not yet read Alexandria, the future England, so maybe I’ll see the views you’re talking about. I’m not defending Kingsnorth, I’m just not informed about his views other than reading The Wake and Beast.I sadly no longer have a relationship with my Trump supporting brother, (his choice, not mine) but one of our last conversations was about xenophobia and his excuse was that he loves other cultures, but he wants Amish country, where he lives to stay the same, no mosques, Mexican restaurants, Asian themed parks in what should be Ohio, “all-American” farmland, in other words he wants ghettoized, culturally pure areas. My response to him is that he can find this unrealistic, bigoted ideals in books and movies. Read a book or see a film about “pure” cultural lands and people, and in real life celebrate the richness of diversity.
It sounds like that’s not the case with Kingsnorth, though.
WndyJW wrote: "I read The Wake years after it came out, end of 2020, unaware of the Kingsnorth’s nativist views. The Wake is about one mad man fighting the Norman invasion, which was ancient history so I didn’t p..."Kingsnorth's books would be perfect for your brother.
I said Trump supporter, it follows that he doesn’t read. Would they only be perfect for nationalists? Did I miss something in The Wake or are Kingsnorth’s views more spelled out in his other books?
I googled him and saw that Ben Myers wrote that he disagrees with Kingsnorth politically, but counts him as a friend, that he’s a nice guy with a nice family. Others have said Kingsnorth’s view are more nuanced. I also saw that US Conservatives like him, which doesn’t bode well, but again I haven’t read him.
Well he is more on the eco- side of fascism so his main ire is against coffee shops rather than immigrants (iirc he may be married to an immigrant), albeit as long as they accept Englishness.But it is telling the main interview to promote the novel was with Rod Dreher in the American Conservative, who was for example this week amplifying the completely false story that the US women's football team turned their back on a veteran during the anthem (they actually turned to face the flag!).
Jo wrote: "Looking at upcoming releases...Has anyone read any of the following:
The Magician - Colm Toibin"
I just read this
I found it very interesting but not at all literary fiction. Its really a biography which uses the device of a novel to remove the more tedious elements of biography (references, footnotes, discussions of alternative versions of stories, point-scoring with other academics etc) - but on the other hand I felt it really lacked anything added from the fictional elements. Even the smaller incidents seem to be widely attested and known ones (or more to the point available on Wikipedia) and I found little or no attempt to use imaginative or experimental writing to bring the author and their work to life.
I would not rule it out for the Booker longlist though but overall it engaged my interest but not my emotions or literary sensibilities.
I have to read more about eco-facism and Kingsnorth. I love stories evocative of place and I love myths, which can so easily be used to create hatred of the outsider who spoils the purity of a place, much like my “English” (what the Amish call the not-Amish) brother who moved to Amish country with his electricity, cars, TVs, and zippers.Sort of a lazy biography, GY?
I am approaching halfway in The Magician and feeling much like GY although slightly less enthused! I’ve had an enforced break this weekend due to being out selling my photos and I am really not looking forward to get back into this book.
The Magician is off my list if it does make the longlist.There's an extensive Rooney extract in the New Yorker this week - https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/20... for those interested in her forthcoming novel (a contender?). I only managed to read a third before losing interest (albeit the footy starting may have been a factor)
Added: Can't believe I missed the first goal reading a Sally Rooney story!
I see the Rooney extract starts with WH Auden - he married Thomas Mann’s oldest child in a marriage of convenience so she could get a British passport (as I know now!!)
On Rooney I have a ticket for her reading and signing the night before publication
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The Mookse and the Gripes
Books mentioned in this topic
The First Woman (other topics)The Great Mistake (other topics)
The Island of Missing Trees (other topics)
Savage Tongues (other topics)
Insatiable (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Frederick Forsyth (other topics)Jordan Tannahill (other topics)
Sarah Hall (other topics)
Katie Kitamura (other topics)
Tara June Winch (other topics)
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We're still awaiting publication of Love and Other Thought Experiments in the US. Who They Was was only just published.