The Mookse and the Gripes discussion
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Booker Prize for Fiction
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2021 Booker Prize Speculation
message 651:
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Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer
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Jul 05, 2021 12:08PM
It’s in Norfolk Paul - about 10 miles from where it was published.
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I’ve read 12 and have or have ordered about dozen more.
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Following Paul's challenge at messages 622-626 I have sorted out my votes on the Listopia a bitI have read and finished 54 eligible books and started but decided not to finish another 5 (Luckenbo..."
GY: Since we seem to have such similar reading tastes, I've taken an extra long look at your current thinking. I bought The Yield at a bookstore this weekend and may have to buy Assembly from Blackwell's rather than wait for its September release in the US. I've read most of the others and agree with about 75% of them. I'm just feeling gun-shy this year in terms of predictions because of how off last year felt for me personally.
Robert wrote: "I just received permission to use the logo so the post will be up on Thursday"Looking forward to it Robert.
Get Assembly, Cindy! It’s outstanding.
WndyJW wrote: "Get Assembly, Cindy! It’s outstanding."I'm on it Wendy!
Back to the blog predictions - I saw some tips from a Booktuber - KD Reads. He was jioned by another Booktuber - Freshly Reads. Both independently picked their top 13 (importantly ordered in the order they felt most likely to be longlisted from most certain first) and then took turns to present their books (avoiding duplicates) until they had got to a top 13 or so they agreed on.The focus was very much on what books either sounded like Booker books (often based more on the blurb or reviews than actually reading it) or had some form of Booker Links. One was picked as the person went hunting for the publisher of Ducks, Newburyport; another because an ex Booker winner (Roddy Doyle) liked it and it sounded like it had elements of Milkman and Shuggie Bain.
But the lists (ignoring duplicates - both for example had Klara as first choice) as far as they discussed them gave the following 14 (of which I have read 11). I think they possibly dropped Luster for their final 13.
Freshly Reads
Klara and The Sun – Kazui Ishiguro
Luster – Raven Leilani
China Room – Sunjeev Sahota
Transcendent Kingdom – Yaa Gyasi
Harlem Shuffle – Colson Whitehead
Infinite Country – Patricia Engels
The Yield – Tara June Winch
KD Books
Still Life – Sarah Winman
Detransition, Baby – Torrey Peter
Before My Actual Heart Breaks – Tish Delaney
Assembly – Natasha Brown
We Are All Birds of Uganda – Hafsa Zayyan
The Living Sea of Waking Dreams – Richard Flanagan
Insignificance – James Clammer
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "... another because an ex Booker winner (Roddy Doyle) liked it and it sounded like it had elements of Milkman and Shuggie Bain."Is that Before My Actual Heart Breaks? If so, I only gave it 2 stars, and thought the cover is the best thing about it. But, then, I often disagree with Booker panels so that's already pushing its odds up!
Yes it isThat was the book that KD Books picked simply because
- Roddy Doyle liked it and he has won the Booker (he picked an ex winner and went to see what they were recommending)
- When he read the Blurb it read like it was about a difficult family and The Troubles so like two recent Booker winners (Shuggie Bain and Milkman)
So I don't think it was the most convincing argument
Some of their picks I thought were very good tips - eg We Are All Birds of Uganda (they felt Chigozie Obiama would be a fan) and Infinite Country (which would add a South American element)
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Back to the blog predictions - I saw some tips from a Booktuber - KD Reads. He was jioned by another Booktuber - Freshly Reads. Both independently picked their top 13 (importantly ordered in the or..."KD Reads is quite an ardent follower of the Booker, and I well remember his mystified live reaction video as last year's longlist was released. He hates Ali Smith, so I already know that he and I have different reading tastes. But with the exception of the Delaney, I can't fault his thinking.
Haha I never agree with Kieran but he knows how to create a convincing and valid argument so I end up saying fair point. Except when it comes to how to be both
I think in re: We are All Birds of Uganda, it depends on how deep the judges go into African authors. I continue to feel Soyinka would be top choice for his celebrity and stature. He is still getting round and about at 86, and is due to present a Pen Award in the U.S. in October, so an appearance is possible. Otherwise there is Makumbi and Gyasi to consider. (Is First Woman eligible? It released in October of last year I think)I do not see Leilani on the Booker this year. I loved the writing but feel the book had first time author issues and since she has won some recognition already, I would prefer to not see her. The mention of Leilani brings me to Zakiya Dailia Harris, and The Other Black Girl, though.
Gumble Yard's mention of this book prompted my read after I had dismissed the book as overhyped and I am impressed. Where Leilani's novel seemed to be flawed in overall structure, Harris has mastered it. I think the book would deserve to be on the Booker list if selected over Luster. Personally, I think it is dead on for the Women's Prize and would potentially win that one, so I won't mind if the judges pass it by.
First Woman is eligible - published on 1 October 2020 the first day of the eligibility. Already taken the Jhalak Prize (where indeed I think we concluded it was eligible)Like One Sky Day/Popisho also has a different US title I think, A Girl Is a Body of Water
Personally, I just don't think We Are All Birds of Uganda is very good for lots of reasons. And while I loved The Other Black Girl, I'd definitely agree with Women's Prize rather than Booker. Leilani is a standout writer but yes, so many problems with Luster as a novel.Out of all the books mentioned, Assembly is the one I really want to see on the list.
Interestingly (and I did not listen to the full video - was more flicking through to when they picked books) the two YouTubers debated "Luster" - one described it as "Such a Fun Age but more Booker-worthy" ...... I think there is an argument that applies better to "The Other Black Girl" (I share the views above). I think they dropped "Luster" from their final list (hence why 14 books not 13) - and it was I think "Assembly" that caused them to think that was a better book with broadly similar ideas.Another "African" book with a chance I think is "How Beautiful We Were" - its actually 16th on the Listopia at the start of the thread (and you would not be surprised if any of the top 15 made the list). We Are All Birds of Uganda is 21st.
Interestingly given Sam's idea that "faith" might be a topic that links book - the exploration in We Are All Birds of Uganda while not central to the book is good and nuanced.
Changing topic - one book that is very high on the Listopia is The Committed (6th). Not sure I have seen it discussed. I thought it was a trainwreck to be honest https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
It reminded me of Tarantino and in a link I see he has a debut novel out which is actually getting a lot of review space (and quite good write ups) by serious fictional reviewers in the UK ................. surely not for the Booker though?!
I’d agree with your assessment of The Committed. For some unfathomable reason, though, the idea of Tarantino on the Booker list sounds great!
Neil wrote: "I’d agree with your assessment of The Committed. For some unfathomable reason, though, the idea of Tarantino on the Booker list sounds great!"
I sampled the Tarantino and the third paragraph on the first page ended my interest. It has a place but not as literature.
I think I see what you mean - just did the "Look Inside" on Amazon. Should have done that before commenting!
I was more surprised that say The New Statesman put their lead fiction reviewer (Leo Robson - to put it in context he has been a Booker and Goldsmith judge - and is particularly involved with the latter) on it and that he wrote it up as excellent.
Dwight Garner in the NYT also has a review that Bookmarks classifies as a "Rave" - https://bookmarks.reviews/reviews/onc...Albeit in the reviews it comes across as a very good piece of Pulp Fiction rather than Booker material. But who knows in terms of the judges - perhaps this is this year's starstruck inclusion rather than Klara.
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "The two on [Eric's] list I do not recognise don’t have a single written review on Goodreads so would be fairly left field choices.."Which were those two?
The ones I didn't recognise are
Tenderness – Alison Macleod
Palmares – Gayl Jones
But both of these are September novels which (part) explains lack of reviews and we know the Booker loves books no one has read.
Also Macleod's last novel was Booker longlisted (2013) and Gayl Jones's novel is her first for 20+ years (her last was a National Book Award finalist in 1998, and her most famous novels were in the 70s). They both seem interesting picks.
Looking at upcoming releases...Has anyone read any of the following:
Th Magician - Colm Toibin
The Lincoln Highway - Amor Towles
The Book of Form and Emptiness - Ruth Ozeki
Thought?
From downthread Gumble's Yard and Roman Clodia have ARCs of the Magician from NetgalleyThe Ozeki is also eligible this year. The Towles is published in the UK in October so slips into 2022.
I also have an ARC of the Tóibín. I plan to read it next (currently reading the new Shafak which also came via NetGalley).
I can see from my ratings that I wasn't a fan of The Master, but it was over 16 years ago and I can't remember why. May even have been my lack of familiarity with Henry James and his life and novels.Mann I know better so may be more of interest.
Jo wrote: "Looking at upcoming releases...Has anyone read any of the following:
Th Magician - Colm Toibin
The Lincoln Highway - Amor Towles
The Book of Form and Emptiness - Ruth Ozeki
Thought?"
Also not sure about Towles as Booker-worthy. A Gentleman in Moscow was good and I had fun reading it but wouldn't consider it Booker material.
Paul wrote: "I can see from my ratings that I wasn't a fan of The Master, but it was over 16 years ago and I can't remember why. May even have been my lack of familiarity with Henry James and his life and novel..."I have a physical ARC of The Magician and am eager to read it. I thought The Master was exceptional, but then I am a Henry James fan. I am less of a Thomas Mann fan, so The Magician may not work as well for me, but we'll see.
I know a couple of you read Jonathan Lee's The Great Mistake and here is an interesting interview of Lee by David Goodwillie from Interview magazine. I did not think this novel was Booker material on first read but it staying up front in my memory stimulating thought which is something I admire in a book that doesn't initially move me. At present I would find the book a worthy selection even if the prose seems a bit close to Alan Holinghurst's. That actually might be a good thing. Though the interview is mostly about the book with insights into how Lee sought to incorporate Covid restrictions and Trump into the novel, there are other interesting topics and one is Lee's thoughts on autofiction and plot.
https://www.interviewmagazine.com/cul...
Returning to tue discussion of thenes or topics in this year's longlist, I was struck by GY's mention of disapperances. I immediately thought of Covid related disappearances, which led me to ponder how the judges might be approaching the response to Covid in their longlist selections. Will we see selections that consciously or unconsciously reflect upon the judges reaction to Covid? I had that in mind when I mentioned faith.
This line is interesting "I’m editing a book right now called The Manning Tree Witches, which is a historical novel about the witch trials in the UK" given its already published in the UK (and just won a prestigious award".
And this one slightly worrying - as I think a lot of people here would disagree very strongly"no one has ever said to another person, even among writers, “I just finished this novel, you’ve got to read it. It’s full of great sentences.” You talk first about the story and the characters. That should be the engine of everything."
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "This line is interesting "I’m editing a book right now called The Manning Tree Witches, which is a historical novel about the witch trials in the UK" given its already published in the UK (and just..."Yes, that caught me too. Old interview or giving nod to U.S. audience where book is unpublished? Or is Lee referring to being an editor for a U.S. edition?
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "And this one slightly worrying - as I think a lot of people here would disagree very strongly"no one has ever said to another person, even among writers, “I just finished this novel, you’ve got to read it. It’s full of great sentences.” You talk first about the story and the characters. That should be the engine of everything."
Seriously? That ought to be an instant disqualification from being Booker eligible.
The editing bit is worrying as well. Perhaps he is Americanising (or is that Americanizing?) the spellings. Such as turning Manningtree into Manning Tree apparently.
Paul wrote: "Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "And this one slightly worrying - as I think a lot of people here would disagree very strongly"no one has ever said to another person, even among writers, “..."
To be fair, I think that remark is to be taken in the context of the discussion. His point IMO, was that autofiction is becoming played out and clichéd as it stands and needs to develop and evolve.
Fair enough but he's still dead to me :-)
Paul wrote: "Fair enough but he's still dead to me :-)"You didn't like the book Paul?
Shan't be reading it if has one of those plot thingies and narrative tension and the like.
Time for some proper predictions:1. I will express my horror at the list - largely on the grounds of it not including books more suited to the Goldsmiths/RoC/International Booker - and announce I am boycotting the Prize. I will then read most of the books and enjoy them, but pretend I don't
2. We will (nearly) all get upset at the exclusion of one book (Assembly perhaps this year?)
3. We will (nearly) all be horrified by the inclusion of another. It will then make the shortlist.
4. [per Wendy] The Group's favourite book from the longlist will fail to make the shortlist
5. Australia and New Zealand are apparently, once again, no longer English speaking countries.
6. The list will include at least one book that isn't due to be published until after the shortlist date [this year that means anything from 15-30 September]
7. It will include several that, particularly post Brexit, are hard to get outside the UK.
8. Many of the choices will be "obvious" after the event based on a complex analysis of the judges' past history that would put Ted Rogers to shame
9. Gumble will have "only" read 10 of the 13 books. Having spent the previous 3 months hunting down ARCs of every possible contender, he will then complain he has nothing new left to read for the summer.
10. The judges will include at least one ineligible book. I fear the "no books over 300 pages" rule I instigated may not be followed.
I think your predictions are all likely, you forgot that everyone’s favorite longlisted book won’t make the shortlist. This is why we love Booker season, it’s a roller coaster of emotions for book nerds like ourselves.
That's a solid list - I'd forgotten about Boyd's book, one of those October novels that is indeed eligible this year.And Bewilderment will meet my prediction 6, but The Yield will violate #5.
Paul wrote: "That's a solid list - I'd forgotten about Boyd's book, one of those October novels that is indeed eligible this year.And Bewilderment will meet my prediction 6, but The Yield will violate #5."
Thanks!
As you mentioned that the Booker likes to break rules, I'll wager that The Mermaid of Black Conch will show up on the longlist as it was republished this year with Vintage
I have read all but the Boyd on that list and would no be surprised to see any of the 12 I have read on the real list. A Longlisting for Boyd after (I think) nearly 40 years and a dozen or more Novels. What is behind your thinking Bob.
I see Boyd as those authors who writes strong literary novels but barely gets recognition. He was shortlisted for any human heart and that was excellent. I heard a lot of good things about Trio plus the chair is a historian and another judge is involved with the arts and the book is about film and history so I guess that makes it a good contender.
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "This line is interesting "I’m editing a book right now called The Manning Tree Witches, which is a historical novel about the witch trials in the UK" given its already published in the UK (and just..."I took that to mean he was preparing it for US publication, which is in August.
Robert wrote: "here's my prediction post: https://thebobsphere.wordpress.com/20..."In general I'd be quite happy with that list, although I cannot agree with you about Trio, which I read last week and thought was fine up to a point and then went off the rails. But I like Boyd and would be happy for him to show up on prize lists from time to time.
Paul wrote: "Time for some proper predictions:1. I will express my horror at the list - largely on the grounds of it not including books more suited to the Goldsmiths/RoC/International Booker - and announce I..."
Just want to say that I want to print these predictions out and put them up on my bulletin board. They've made my morning.
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The Mookse and the Gripes
Books mentioned in this topic
The First Woman (other topics)The Great Mistake (other topics)
The Island of Missing Trees (other topics)
Savage Tongues (other topics)
Insatiable (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Frederick Forsyth (other topics)Jordan Tannahill (other topics)
Sarah Hall (other topics)
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Tara June Winch (other topics)
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