Dickensians! discussion
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Little Dorrit
Little Dorrit - Group Read 2
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Little Dorrit: Chapters 1 - 11
Debra - exactly the cartoon character I had in mind. :)Jean - I read the quote several times and I am still convinced the "little man" refers to John Baptist. The jailer is not described as small, but the original description of John Baptist says "a sunburnt, quick, lithe, little man, though rather thickset." His nationality may not matter at all, but knowing Dickens, it might.
Milena - Thanks so much for the info on the name. Names are so important, and this is information that Dickens' audience would know, which the modern audience (read me) might not.
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Oh, Debra, I had meant to say how clever it was of you to notice the parallel between Rigaud and Murdstone. I also love the recurring themes in Dickens. When you read a number of his books, you begin to see the patterns, but they are always given a fresh turn.
I found the setting really powerful, you felt the sun and then the dampness, it's also unsettling because you're not sure how these characters will fit later on. A very good enticing first chapter.I rather agree with Sara that Cavaletto is italian by the quote, but also because his papers are wrong and he's a smuggler so not in his country in France; he also exclaims in Italian when having the conversation with Rigaud.
To me Rigaud makes me think of the town here with it's rapids or falls so someone tempestuous? but Dickens could not have known of there. The meaning of the surname is Rigaud indicates you are a very capable, systematic, and thorough person with talents for mechanics, accounting, computers, teaching, law, construction, and similar fields. I wonder if we'll find some of this in the character, systematic might be one that will come in play and knowing the law from the other side?
I didn't know that. Rigaud might be derived from the French word for rigor.
Milena wrote: "Martha wrote: "Black vs. BlueHarbor vs. Sea
Abominable vs. Pure
Foul Water vs. Beautiful Sea."
I like the contrasts you highlighted Martha. I would add to your list:
- Prisoners who have worn th..."
Love the contrasts. Thanks for pointing them out. Dickens has certainly set the mood.
Martha wrote: "My notes start with the first page of Chapter 1. This hit me as very symbolic:“There was no wind to make a ripple on the foul water within the harbor, or on the beautiful sea without. The line of..."
I like the contrasts you make, Martha. My book said in the notes that Marseilles' harbor was full of sewage when the wind and water were still so there was a contrast in colors. But Dickens and you expressed it in more beautiful language!
I'd like to read "Little Dorrit" with this group too. I have read it last year, so remember it well, but really enjoy the discussion and the finer points everyone makes.Jean - not to get you upset, but just recently got someone's opinion on lack of interest in Dickens. His characters are relatively "linear", i.e., there is no drastic turnaround. A scoundrel is always a scoundrel throughout the whole story, a noble soul remains brave and decent, etc. Not sure if this makes sense, since many of Dickens novels are about character development, like David Copperfield or Great Expectations. Then again, to some extent, David Copperfield is predictable, Pip a lot less so.
It looks like Dickens characters become much more complex and multidimensional towards the end of his life.
That is very interesting, Helen. I find his characters mostly realistic. I am putting this in spoilers because I cite characters in David Copperfield. (view spoiler)I hate to say this, but a lot of people who say they don't like authors like Dickens, or certain kinds of books, etc. when pressed will admit they have never read them. I ran into this just the other day with someone who said War and Peace was unreadable, but then admitted he had never tried to read it himself.
Wow. I'm glad I refreshed the page before I add my comment there are at least 10 more comments and so I needed to change my comment :).I just finished reading the first chapter and after that all the comments :). I can say this time the first chapter wasn't a struggle for me. When I read David Copperfield I needed to read it three times. And after that, I needed to read the summary to understand the story wholly. But this time when I read I could understand. But I needed to read the summary to be sure (and Debra like you, I love summaries too. Thank you again, Jean. :) ).
I usually miss some details when I read the story. Like them being from which country. Though I was aware of Monsieur Rigaud from where, it was mentioned pointedly. But after comments, I looked again and Sara I feel like John Baptist is the little man. Because Dickens doesn't describe prison-keeper at all.
Debra like you when I read about a husband who wants to control his wife made me remember (view spoiler) David Copperfield and Monsieur Rigaud makes him seem good. :))
For me the child being in jail was sad. I feel like anyone who is prison wouldn't like to be seen by a child (not sure but it makes me feel like that). But I enjoyed her sensing the evil one.
The part l love (except other shared ones in the former comments.) was this part (how the light vanished as the door closed and how he watched Monsieur Rigaud leaving)
"There was an officer in command of the soldiers; a stout, serviceable, profoundly calm man, with his drawn sword in his hand, smoking a cigar. He very briefly directed the placing of Monsieur Rigaud in the midst of the party, put himself with consummate indifference at their head, gave the word 'march!' and so they all went jingling down the staircase. The door clashed—the key turned—and a ray of unusual light, and a breath of unusual air, seemed to have passed through the jail, vanishing in a tiny wreath of smoke from the cigar."
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Thanks, but no, I'm not upset :) Just remembering the ridiculous reasons I've heard over the years, and cited for Luffy, (and which Sara has now added to), made me momentarily sad for those people who will never experience the joy of reading Charles Dickens. But it only lasted for a few seconds, before Sara's next post cheered me up :)
Your colleague/friend's opinion:
"His characters are relatively "linear", i.e., there is no drastic turnaround"
This opinion doesn't ring true to me either I'm afraid. Isn't the whole point of Charles Dickens's most famous work, A Christmas Carol, (view spoiler)!
Sara has just given us three excellent examples from one book! Then there's (view spoiler) in A Tale of Two Cities, (view spoiler) in Oliver Twist, and if you'd like a reverse example, what about (view spoiler) Bleak House. Not to mention the dozens of minor characters who perpetuate each novel.
We've got quite a bit off topic here, as a result of Luffy's question. Perhaps there should be a thread about this, but please, not here, or we'll all get lost!
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I'm delighted the first chapter wasn't such a struggle, as I had wondered ... Charles Dickens's language is so complex. But Luffy enjoyed it too, and it gets easier once you're more used to it. Kudos to you both!
Yes, I think we have a consensus that Sara was right about Jean-Baptiste :)
I too keep having to refresh the page. The amount of comments these Dickens reads generate is amazing - I love it!
Ah, the sadness, and sensitivity, of a little girl in prison. Hold that thought!
Some great comments here. Appreciate the summary, Jean, as I read this several weeks ago. Agree with Sara that Jean-Baptiste is Italian, not French..
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Pamela wrote: "Connie wrote: "Since John Baptist knew the Mediterranean ports, I got the impression that he was an Italian man transporting black market goods by boat..."Yes he was a smuggler, I love the way Di..."
Oh, I missed this point! I’m going back and rereading this. Thank you!
I am re-reading this. The only 2 major novels I have not read yet are Barnaby Rudge and Martin Chuzzlewit. I love sinking into Dickens, it is like entering another world. This is truly one of my favorites, I last read it before the 2007 television version came out. I know readers in Dickens times were looking for the comedic touches, but this story just fills my heart. I read this one and Bleak House within a year of each other, and enjoyed the outstanding productions. I am going to watch them again after my husband reads LD. He’s enjoyed the ones I’ve passed on to him post-retirement, although right now he is reading more slowly as he is in the middle of doing the Census.
This chapter sets an ominous tone, I think, and his descriptions make me see each character clearly. My kids always complain about the amount of detail in the descriptions, but I tell them to imagine a world with no video, where word-pictures must feed the imaginations of all the readers.
I started my journey to read Dickens back in the summer between sixth and seventh grade, I borrowed The Old Curiosity Shop and read it, then I read Pickwick Papers. I tended to enjoy the reading I chose more than my classroom encounters as the teachers often sucked all the life out of the characters & stories, at least until I got to college.
I think about the prisoners in San Quentin as I drive by and see the beautiful view the prison has of the San Francisco Bay, looking towards the city. It always seems cruel to place the prison right near all they cannot touch. I live in a Mediterranean climate, and the brightness and heat just out of reach while they are stuck in the gloom and chill would also be a stark contrast of circumstances.
Yes, Jean, thanks for the summaries! I read the first chapter today but had to look up a summary online to make sure I understood everything that was going on. So far, so good!
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Kim - I loved both your posts, "this story just fills my heart" :) :) - and the second post seems a perfect parallel for chapter 1.
Terris - and any one who enjoy the summaries - I'm glad they are useful :)
I guess that the day may come when I have to resort to posting summaries I can find online - but I've never really found any that would be good enough :( Sorry - that sounds bad, but wiki has none, and schmoop just dumbs everything down :( Plus I think any intended for school/college study might interpret and "lead" a bit too much for us - and have questions, which would really put me off! I guess there are some you can pay for ... And if in the future I ever have to use them, of course I'll say whose they are.
Right, we could spend a long time discussing chapter 1, but on to chapter 2 :)
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Some time the next day, by which time the baying of the crowd has abated, we move to another sort of “prison”. Here we meet a family called the Meagles: the comfortable middle-aged Mr. and Mrs. Meagle, and their kind, pretty twenty year old daughter, whom they call “Pet”. Pet is much indulged, a little spoilt, and has a companion/servant called “Tattycoram”. The Meagles family are all returning from the East, and have had to spend some time in quarantine, as the plague is still rife there. Mr. Meagles is keen to be out of quarantine and bound for home.
Mr. Meagles’ companion, a man of about 40, asks why the girl is so named, and Mr. Meagles tells him the story. A few years earlier they had visited the “Foundling Hospital” in London, and Mrs. Meagles felt so sorry for all the orphans, that Mr. Meagles proposed a plan:
“Let us take one of those same little children to be a little maid to Pet. We are practical people. So if we should find her temper a little defective, or any of her ways a little wide of ours, we shall know what we have to take into account.”
In the Institution she had been given the name of Harriet Beadle. The Meagles had changed her name to “Hattey, and then into Tatty, because, as practical people, we thought even a playful name might be a new thing to her, and might have a softening and affectionate kind of effect, don’t you see?”
“Coram” came from the name of the orphanage’s creator, and the name gradually came to be combined as “Tattycoram”.
Mr. Meagles’ companion, whom we learn is called Mr. Clennam, asks if there were any other children. He is sorrowfully told that Pet did have a twin sister, who had died when she was very young, and that Pet herself is also rather delicate. Mr. Meagles asks Mr. Clennam about himself, and is rather embarrassed by Mr. Clennam’s frank story of his life:
“I am the son, Mr. Meagles, of a hard father and mother … Austere faces, inexorable discipline, penance in this world and terror in the next—nothing graceful or gentle anywhere, and the void in my cowed heart everywhere—this was my childhood …
Trained by main force; broken, not bent; heavily ironed with an object on which I was never consulted and which was never mine; shipped away to the other end of the world before I was of age, and exiled there until my father’s death there, a year ago; always grinding in a mill I always hated.“
Mr. Clennam has been slavishly working for more than twenty years in China, and now feels he has no “will, purpose, [or] hope” in life.
As the travellers proceed through the official signing of papers and stamping of forms, we catch sight of others, including:
“a tall French gentleman with raven hair and beard, of a swart and terrible, not to say genteelly diabolical aspect, but who had shown himself the mildest of men; and a handsome young Englishwoman, travelling quite alone, who had a proud observant face.”
Mr. Meagles knows no French, but nevertheless attempts to make some convivial goodbyes. He addresses the reserved, haughty Englishwoman as “Miss Wade”; she also is clearly known to them.
The narrator muses on why Miss Wade is so set apart, and whether it is her own choice:
“The shadow in which she sat, falling like a gloomy veil across her forehead, accorded very well with the character of her beauty. One could hardly see the face, so still and scornful, set off by the arched dark eyebrows, and the folds of dark hair, without wondering what its expression would be if a change came over it … ‘I am self-contained and self-reliant; your opinion is nothing to me; I have no interest in you, care nothing for you, and see and hear you with indifference’—this it said plainly. It said so in the proud eyes, in the lifted nostril, in the handsome but compressed and even cruel mouth.”
The kind young woman, Pet, is worried how Miss Wade will fare, and offers her father’s help, but this only provokes a dismissive reply. Miss Wade’s conversation is as tart and full of foreboding as it had been earlier, and Pet shrinks away.
As Miss Wade goes back to her room, she hears “an angry sound of muttering and sobbing”. This is Tattycoram:
“A sullen, passionate girl! Her rich black hair was all about her face, her face was flushed and hot, and as she sobbed and raged, she plucked at her lips with an unsparing hand.”
Miss Wade and Tattycoram - Phiz
Tattycoram is having a tantrum at being left alone:
“Not caring what becomes of me! Leaving me here hungry and thirsty and tired, to starve, for anything they care! Beasts! Devils! Wretches!”
Miss Wade watches her with a “strange attentive smile”, as Tattycoram rages over having to look after Pet, whom she says is spoilt and babied, even though she is older than Tattycoram. But gradually Tattycoram’s temper subsides, and she takes everything back,saying:
“They are nothing but good to me. I love them dearly; no people could ever be kinder to a thankless creature than they always are to me.”
Tattycoram says she is afraid of Miss Wade, who always seems to be there when she is in a passion:
“When my temper comes upon me, I am mad … What have I said! I knew when I said it, it was all lies … I am afraid of myself when I feel my temper coming, and I am as much afraid of you.”
The chapter ends with the narrator saying how we “restless travellers through the pilgrimage of life” come and go, meeting and reacting to one another.
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Dickens is doing this when we meet this ill-assorted group of travelling companions from the East. They include Arthur Clennam and the Meagles’ family—a very entertaining group already! And that’s not to mention Miss Wade, and a … moustachioed stranger ;)
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“a tall French gentleman with raven hair and beard, of a swart and terrible, not to say genteelly diabolical aspect, but who had shown himself the mildest of men”
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“One always begins to forgive a place as soon as it’s left behind; I dare say a prisoner begins to relent towards his prison, after he is let out.”
Is this foreshadowing? Mr. Meagles seems kind and cheery enough—but does not adapt his speech at tall, seeming oblivious to whether anyone understands him. In fact, although he insists several times that they are “practical people”, he’s oblivious to quite a lot—and this does indicate something about his character.
I do find Mr. Meagles entertaining though, for example in thinking that if he speaks to foreigners in idiomatic English, they will then understand him! It fits his sunny, oblivious view so well.
But does anyone else find him a little too complacent and self-centred? Perhaps he goes through life blind to what is right under his nose, smothering Pet in affection, ignorant of the burgeoning resentment and frustration of “Tattycoram” … something will surely be ignited!
And there’s another cute name—why do the two call their child “Pet”? There has clearly always been an asymmetrical, odd relationship between the two children. Is Tattycoram a daughter or a maid? She is described as a plaything and maid! I don’t know if I’m very happy with the thought that Tattycoram was adopted precisely to be a maid to another child, but that’s my 21st century view. At any rate, the idea of giving her a whimsical name is surely very patronising, even in the 19th century. She’s a person, not a dog! Even those wealthy people who insisted on giving their servants different names, more fitted (as they thought) to their station in life, chose human ones.
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“such a waif and stray everywhere, that I am liable to be drifted where any current may set …Will, purpose, hope? All those lights were extinguished before I could sound the words”.
So he too has been imprisoned, in a way.
Miss Wade is already fascinating: the uncompromising and unyielding Miss Wade. But why is she like this? Is she too in a prison of her own making? She seems to speak in hidden meanings—or veiled threats. And did anyone get the impression she was goading Tattycoram, rather than calming her down? Somehow I don’t think we’ve seen the last of her!
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The "Foundling Hospital" really existed, in North London. It was founded in 1739 by the philanthropist Thomas Coram, to care for babies at risk of abandonment.
Coram Foundling Hopital, Holborn, London - engraving by L.P. Boitard 1753
It continues today as a museum. The Hospital was the UK’s first children’s charity and its first public art gallery. Interestingly, it has many works by Hogarth, and the world’s largest private collection of the composer Handel's memorabilia! This is because the artist William Hogarth and the composer George Frideric Handel helped to establish the Hospital. The museum explores the lives of the children who grew up there from 1741-1954.
Coram Fields in Camden is now a lovely but little-known open green area of London, with a children's farm and playground for all to use.
I loved the parallels with the first chapter - once again we have two men in conversation with each other, and as Jean says in a kind of prison (in quarantine), but they are very different from our first pair.Miss Wade is a fascinating and rather troubling character - she acts with reserve, seeming to want to do her own thing and not get involved with others, yet she has already made two provocative interventions. First she disturbs Pet with her shadowy hints of trouble approaching, and then she stands and watches Tattycoram’s tantrum, sizing her up it seems.
Bionic Jean wrote: "One of the things I love and admire about Charles Dickens as a writer, is the skilful way he doesn’t always use an omniscient narrator to tell us the information, but lets it percolate through bit by bit in the course of the conversation."Sorry for being negative once again, but is there such a thing as an omniscient narrator? Does the writer give away the ending in his - any - book? Look at Game of Thrones... the writer is omniscient, yet the subjects chosen to star in chapters of their own don't themselves know the entire plot of the book. It remains hidden. Same goes for many classics.
Excellent question, Luffy, I don't think you are being negative. That is the trick of 3rd person narration, to decide how much to tell and when. There is the modern injunction to writers to "show, don't tell" but in the 19th century, a lot of authors did tell the reader right out what to think about the characters or plot. Dickens here has a number of characters tell their own story, like Clennam, or show their personality by their actions and speech. I suppose Clennam's parents, if they were around to be in the book, would have a different story of his life. The Meagles show how we often deceive ourselves, thinking they are "practical" and generous in adopting a child into a servile role. (I think it's clear that Tattycoram was never intended to be a sister to Pet, and the fanciful name is another type of ownership/denial of the other's dignity).
My gratitude for the validating, Robin. I have been slow to label the Meagles as villainous, as I cannot tell where the truth ends and where the classical datedness begins. But I see that your instincts are aligned with mine. The choice of the name Tattycoram really opened my eyes however, to suspicion towards the couple. The Meagles have become the first handsome couple to be of the bad sort. I give Chapter 2, 7/10 stars.
Another interesting and (at first) confusing chapter. The two chapters seem so unconnected. Chapter 2 was like being thrown into another story. What an interesting group of characters! I don't know what to make of them as a group.
Miss
Tattycoram is a sad case. I'm sure she's a wonderful young lady that is being used and ignored as a person. She hasn't had the opportunities to grow and develop as her own being. It must be awful to grow up knowing that one's needs & wants mean nothing; that one is meant only to be a servant & companion to a treasured child. The differences in each of the lives must rankle her. It's like being taunted somehow.
Yes.....the strange moustachioed man......an interesting inclusion to the group. It seems unlikely that he's Mr. Rigaud, since this is just the day after the prison scene and these people are/were in quarantine for some time, but what if he is????? Intriguing.
This was an interesting way to introduce a wide range of characters in a short period of time. Dickens manages to give us a lot of information on their backgrounds and characters in just a few words.
I would have found the chapter equally confusing if I had not read Jean's summary. But there's no Miss Mane, Petra.
Miss Wade's warning is striking:"...you may be sure there are men and women already on their road, who have their business to do with you, and will do it. Of a certainty they will do it. They may be coming hundreds, thousands, of miles over the sea there; they may be close at hand now; they may be coming, for anything you know, or anything you can do to prevent it, from the vilest sweeping of this very town."
Sounds like some karma that is in play around them, drawing the characters together in a web.
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With Charles Dickens, I often find that his own views ("the author") merge into him thinking he is telling a story objectively, from no specific viewpoint ("third person", or often "the omniscient narrator"). This is particularly noticeable in the novel we have just read, David Copperfield, which was the one most dear to his heart, and I think he found it hard to dissociate himself from it. It's also there in the novels where he gets passionate about social conditions. Which parts are Charles Dickens, and which parts omniscient narrator?
Here though, so far it is straightforward, with the various viewpoints as Robin has said.
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Yes, so very ominous! I like your way of putting it, Mark :)
Mark wrote: "Miss Wade's warning is striking:"...you may be sure there are men and women already on their road, who have their business to do with you, and will do it. Of a certainty they will do it. They may..."
Good quote, Mark. What's your history with Little Dorrit? Read it before?
Bionic Jean wrote: "Interesting comments so far, thanks all :) And Robin for your clear piece about the omniscient narrator.With Charles Dickens, I often find that his own views ("the author") merge ..."
I think the line is blurred on this matter. Do you mean that Dickens lost control of his, er, self control, or Victorian, stiff upper lip restraint in many instances in David Copperfield?
Nisa wrote: "Wow. I'm glad I refreshed the page before I add my comment there are at least 10 more comments and so I needed to change my comment :)"Ha ha ha… Nisa it happens to me too.
And great quotation. Thank you for sharing it :)
Bionic Jean wrote: "Arthur’s description of himself is interesting as:“such a waif and stray everywhere, that I am liable to be drifted where any current may set …Will, purpose, hope? All those lights were extinguis..."
I agree- I feel we will see Miss Wade later in the story. Too mysterious to not come back later. But I didn’t feel like she was goading the young girl, I felt she was sympathizing. It surprised me she had a heart after her conversation with Pet and her father. She seemed very cold and distant.
I love the picture from Phiz that you posted, Jean. I can see the moment there, when the Tattycoram and Miss Wade look at each other as if they were looking in the mirror. It illustrates so well what Dickens writes:”Miss Wade looked at the girl, as one afflicted with a diseased part might curiously watch the dissection and exposition of an analogous case.
And the quotation that you posted, where Tattycoram says:
”I am afraid of myself when I feel my temper coming, and I am as much afraid of you.”
Mark wrote: "Miss Wade's warning is striking:"...you may be sure there are men and women already on their road, who have their business to do with you, and will do it. Of a certainty they will do it. They may..."
I also highlighted that sentence, Mark. All the things Miss Wade says tell me that there is an intriguing story behind. She arouses my curiosity, and I hope to hear more about her.
This chapter is rather a jolt after the first one, there being no easy way to connect them as yet. There are such distinct contrasts drawn between the two girls. Pet is spoiled and pampered, but she is also kind and unassuming, so that the fault seems to me to lie in the parents but not in the girl herself. Of course, we have not seen how she interacts personally with Tattycoram. Tatty, on the other hand, has every reason for her petulant personality and is quick to correct her complaint (so she is trying to appreciate the Meagles even if they don't truly deserve it, or she is attempting to mitigate the revelation of feeling she has just made to Miss Wade). I will admit I would be rather angry if everyone sat down to a sumptuous dinner and left me hungry and meant to fend for myself. That there is no real affection for Tatty seems obvious They are the kind of people who do a good deed for the praise and superior feeling it gives them and not for the actual good of the recipient. Can you imagine adopting a child to make it a servant for yours?
I marked the passage you quoted, Mark, and agree this is a clear foreshadowing of things to come. We are not done with any of these characters, but we already have a lot of names and positions to juggle.
A good way to introduce the characters, they are telling their story themselves... but when we tell the story of our life, we are biased so can we trust everything we've been told? Probably not, it will be interesting to compare what the characters thinks of themselves to the opinion we will form ourselves.The first character that has already shown that his idea of himself and what he actually is are different is Mr. Meagle. How he speaks to people who don't understand his language makes me think how people will talk louder in the same language and think they'll be understood.
I think Harriet plight is hard, having her names changed to Tattycoram must have chaffed. The thing is though becoming a servant, wasn't it the aim of the place she was in? It was that or being put in the street when of age? Or maybe, the foundling place did not have the same aim as the Workhouse in the end? I would love to know.
Thank you, Jean, for a great summary. I have an even deeper appreciation now that I'm doing the ones of The Brothers Karamazov, it takes hours and I don't even do all the other research to make such great complements to the chapters like you do. Thank you again.
Luffy wrote: "I would have found the chapter equally confusing if I had not read Jean's summary. But there's no Miss Mane, Petra."Oops, sorry. Miss Wade.
I'll change that. Thanks, Luffy.
In thinking about the Meagles self-imposed practicality toward life, we can see that their motives in adopting Tattycoram were not particularly generous or sympathetic even though Mrs. Meagles, upon visiting the Foundling Hospital, felt sorry for the abandoned children. Mr. Meagles' plan is not to take this child in as a loved and cherished daughter and sister to "Pet," but as her maid. As "practical" people focusing on carrying out actions that achieve clearly useful objectives, and if Tattycoram did not provide the Meagles with some advantage, they would not have been interested in her. Tattycoram herself is conflicted in her feelings about the Meagles - raging at them one moment, then grateful to them in the next. The Meagles feel no blame or compassion for Tattycoram's "madness" --"So if we should find her temper a little defective, or any of her ways a little wide of ours, we shall know what we have to take into account.”
Rather than seeing Tattycoram's inner emotions and turmoil as a human reaction to her present condition (which would mean the Meagles are at fault), they place the blame on her background. They do not value her as a person.
While the Meagles can be seen as humorous, they too have their dark side.
Sara wrote: "Can you imagine adopting a child to make it a servant for yours?"It happened with Shakespeare's The Comedy of Errors.
Elizabeth A.G. wrote: "While the Meagles can be seen as humorous, they too have their dark side."Definitely. I expect them to get their just desserts by the time book 2 kicks in, or towards the end.
Petra wrote: "Luffy wrote: "I would have found the chapter equally confusing if I had not read Jean's summary. But there's no Miss Mane, Petra."Oops, sorry. Miss Wade.
I'll change that. Thanks, Luffy."
Happens to the best of us. That proves that one has to get a kind of compass to plunge into classics.
Dickensians!
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Oh my goodness I hadn't thought of it that way! Rigaud was more bold than (view spoiler)[Edward Murdstone (hide spoiler)] - but yes, it's there, and a chilling thought when you realise. Charles Dickens obviously decided to push that idea!
And thank you :)