The Parlor PI's discussion
Once Upon A Grind read & discuss. Prologue thru Chapter 30.
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Tina
(last edited Jan 16, 2015 01:18AM)
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Jan 16, 2015 01:16AM
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What I like about Ms. Coyle's writing is that she follows the rules without getting hemmed in by them. By formulaic rules.
Quick with the all-important hook, a none sagging mid section and a reveal and climax that completes. Her short chapters are my thing as well.
Another page turner, PI's. It's a good one!
Enjoying it so far. Can't stand Leila, she seems so dense. The visionary beans seem a bit far-fetched too, but I suppose they fit with the fairy tale theme where magical things happen.
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Clare, be careful. Getting into tight spots with ex could be dangerous territory. But then I think she's got a hold on her heart. And so does her new beau.
And the coffee grind readings...there's a symbol list at back matter in book. Guess it's an art. None that I've heard of before but then I lead a sheltered life. lol
Glad you're enjoying the story, Anastasia. You were missed.
So need to hurry and finish the book I'm reading and then I can get started one this one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The forensic detective seems a bit up himself as well. I don't remember him from the previous books. Does anyone remember if he was in any of the previous books as it mentions that he and Clare have had a previous encounter?
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Anastasia, I don't recall him in past episodes but that was early in this series. He did resurface in Buzz but not sure if he's in book before Grind. Maybe someone here knows. Or if Cleo visits soon, she'll tell us. ;-)
Leila - can't stand her. She just dumps her kids on someone else and then later decides they're "her children" again when it's convenient to blame someone else for the kids being lost. She hits every single trophy-wife stereotype I can think of as well. What a waste of air. And then there's Idiot Endicott. I'm thinking that Matt has a pretty good case for false arrest. The guy jumps on the 1st person he sees to arrest and in good Sherlock Holmes fashion says "elementary, my dear Watson" it's that person standing right there. Why? Because they're handy apparently.
Anyone pick up on the "Sleeping Beauty" aspect yet? The fact that she's wearing a pink dress too...And, of course, Red, for Little Red Riding Hood. Jack and the Beanstalk is a given as well. Hah we've even got the Evil Stepmother/Evil Queen (sort of) in Leila! Anyone think the two lost kids in the woods was reminiscent of "Hansel and Gretel?"
I'm a little concerned about the "magic beans" that make Clare have "visions" or dreams where she's not aware of her surroundings. That sounds like drugs to me.
I have never heard of coffee grind readings before. Most interesting. I, of course, have plenty of coffee grinds here lol. I've got reading to do! Hopefully it says I'm gonna win a million or a trip to somewhere warm but not rainy as right now we've had rain for the last several days and for several more to come.
Having a Russian background I also enjoyed the memories that the Russian fairy tales brought back- makes me want to go back and reread them. I haven't heard of a headscarf being referred to as a babushka before?
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Anastasia, being of Polish extract, I haven't heard the babushka reference lately either. Or Babka etc.
Ummmmmmmm Tina, I didn't make the observation, that was Allison, but I do thank you for thinking of me.....lol......
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No problem even Magnum made mistakes from time to time...lol
Tina wrote: "Oops, some PI I make, Jill. lol Sorry about that Allison. ;-)"It's all good! No worries. Does anyone else see anymore Fairy tale references? We know that Ms.Cleo is really good at hidden meanings thinking back to all the Little Match Girl stuff in the last book we read.
I loved Magnum,PI! Used to watch that all the time,lol. Oh and Murder, She Wrote! Wonderful!
In case anyone wants to join with me: I'm gonna try and do a 50 States read again this year since I didn't complete it last year - I made a post about it in another group. I'd love to have the company of some PI's. PLUS this book would count so you'd already have 1 to add :)
There is the snow white reference to the talking glass
Anastasia wrote: "There is the snow white reference to the talking glass"Oh yes! I missed that one!
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Though To me Selleck still looks good, I always preferred Murder She Wrote of the two. Just more my thing. The MSW books are quite good as well.
I wish I could do the 50 states challenge but I'm lucky I can read 50 pages together. Short attention and eyesight span.
Allison wrote: "Tina wrote: "Oops, some PI I make, Jill. lol Sorry about that Allison. ;-)"It's all good! No worries. Does anyone else see anymore Fairy tale references? We know that Ms.Cleo is really good at ..."
I'm doing a 50 states challenge as well... maybe we could do it in here but only we don't have to have it done within a year. It would be fun to try and find books for all 50 states...don't think I'll be able to do it in a year if it was just cozy...lol....This challenge I think would take me more than a year but I'm giving it a try.
Tina wrote: "LOL There is that Pole thing I mentioned earlier. I can jest, self deprecating. ;-)Though Tome Selleck still looks good, I always preferred Murder She Wrote of the two. Just more my thing. ..."
I had a HUGE crush on Magnum and his hair, and his mustache. I do watch Blue Bloods, and every once in awhile I do see Magnum come out in him, and then see it vanish just as quick....lol...
Tina, you could set your 50 challenge for however long you want, or do half this year half next year, time can be your friend, course time doesn't like me half the time, but then again I'm always fighting with time so maybe that's the reason it doesn't like me. It would be fun to see if we could find half the states....The ones I read are usually set in NY, LA. I read another one in Minnesota, and one that is set in Colorado,at least I think it's in Colorado or maybe Conn. It's one of the states that begins with a C!....lol....So I've got my work cut out for me in finding some in the rest of the states.
Jill wrote: "Allison wrote: "Tina wrote: "Oops, some PI I make, Jill. lol Sorry about that Allison. ;-)"It's all good! No worries. Does anyone else see anymore Fairy tale references? We know that Ms.Cleo is..."
Oh there's no time limit - I was just trying to Challenge myself to get it done in a year that's all. I thought it might be fun to kind of work together on it so we could help each other find books in the states - I know last year I didn't find Arkansas or Iowa among others. I can help you gals with some of the States - I seem to duplicate and even triplicate some and not find even 1 for others. Oh well, that's part of the Challenge, right?
Got a 12 Dancing Princesses reference around page 134 as well as some Maleficient/Sleeping Beauty stuff in the next page or two.
Allison, I might have to take you up on helping me....I do want to try and get mine done this year, but then again......lol....
Hey there my fellow PI's I was looking on the B&N website today and I came across this: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-c... I'm seriously thinking about ordering it. It is a pre-order at the moment but it has our own Miss Cleo in it. Might have to start a new shelf in my kitchen that hold just my cozy mystery cookbooks!
Ok, catching up here. Since everyone has commented on things, I just want to say that I think the Storybook Kingdom festival sounds like so much fun! I didn't like Mr. DNA in Holiday grind and he has already annoyed me with just the mention of his name in this one! But like any good mystery/cozy, you have to have that one person that tilts the scales. One thing I do like about this book is how everything is flowing along, it's one that you can't stop reading even when your cooking or folding laundry. I think I read more than I folded....lol.... Ok back to reading. I should make the next discussion in a couple of hours.
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Yes, her writing does flow and I don't feel the dreaded mid-book slump that often affects many books of all genres.
I love the short chapters. Makes it flow even more.
I like the short chapters also....those are bathroom breaks, grab something to drink, for me. I don't like to stop somewhere in a chapter. I like to stop reading at a new chapter, that's just me tho. I'm so glad we decided to read this book, and I love the fairy tale theme through out the book. Miss Cleo has the knack for not losing it later in the story, she maintains it from beginning to the middle and I'm sure to the end. I haven't finished the book yet.Oh, Can I have permission to slap the crap out of Mike's X, That pampered princess needs to be knock down several levels and I know I can achieve that!
Cleo Coyle here (at long last and I thank you for your patience)! Thank you all so much for giving your precious reading time and attention to my latest Coffeehouse Mystery.I will review the comments and jump in where I can...
Anastasia wrote: "The forensic detective seems a bit up himself as well. I don't remember him from the previous books. Does anyone remember if he was in any of the previous books as it mentions that he and Clare hav..."Anastasia and Tina - The first appearance of Endicott (aka Mr. DNA, the crime-writing detective) in the Coffeehouse Mystery series is book #5 Decaffeinated Corpse. He played a small role in that entry, but Marc and I enjoyed creating him and waited for a chance to bring him back, which we did in book #12 Holiday Buzz. He plays a much bigger part in that mystery. We had fun bringing him to life again in Once Upon a Grind. Fun is the key word here.
Allison wrote: "Leila - can't stand her. She just dumps her kids on someone else and then later decides they're "her children" again when it's convenient to blame someone else for the kids being lost. She hits eve..."Allison - I'm picking up on your observation of the Endicott-Matt arrest. Among other things, this scene and sequence is there to show you how Matt Allegro reacts when unjustly treated (not unlike squeezing an orange and finding out what's inside). If you recall, when he is being arrested by Endicott, Matt is completely calm and simply tells Clare to contact his wife, who will arrange proper representation. Keep that in mind because he will not react the same in a future scene and there is a key reason why that (again) reveals something about him as a character.
Cleo wrote: "Anastasia wrote: "The forensic detective seems a bit up himself as well. I don't remember him from the previous books. Does anyone remember if he was in any of the previous books as it mentions tha..."Thankyou, I found him in Holiday Buzz and it doesn't seem like he has changed much. Having some trouble finding him in Decaffeinated Corpse. Does he appear near the beginning or the end?
Found him -near the end. Looks like he nearly arrested Matt falsely then as well
Anastasia wrote: "Having a Russian background I also enjoyed the memories that the Russian fairy tales brought back- makes me want to go back and reread them. I haven't heard of a headscarf being referred to as a ba..."Anastasia - I'm glad to hear the Russian fairy tales brought back memories for you. Marc and I grew up in Western PA, where many Eastern European immigrants came to work in the factories and mills. (My own father and his before him was a steel worker. Before he came to America, in the 1920s, my grandfather was a mounted policeman in Italy, just fyi.) Although our own backgrounds are not Russian, we both appreciated the beauty of the Russian fairy tales and the mythic character of Baba Yaga. While we knew our readers in the USA would be very familiar with the classic Grimm characters (mostly thanks to Disney film adaptations), we very consciously brought in fairy tales that would be new to most of our audience, tales that would create some curiosity and maybe send them to Google to learn more.
We often do this in our Coffeehouse Mysteries, crack doors open for readers and give them a glimpse of new things. Some are curious enough to push through and learn more, and that's a fine outcome for fiction (if we're lucky enough to pull it off), to open up new ideas, new rooms, even new worlds for people. That was one goal, at least, another goal was to expand the fairy tale motif beyond the easily recognizable (at least for the American audience) in order to create more possibilities for unease, suspense, (and with luck) wonder and surprise.
On "babushka" Yes, it is correct usage. Here's a link that may be of help: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictio...
FYI - Our Eastern European immigrant neighbors in Western PA used the term babushka regularly--as did Marc and I, growing up around them.
Cleo wrote: "Anastasia wrote: "Having a Russian background I also enjoyed the memories that the Russian fairy tales brought back- makes me want to go back and reread them. I haven't heard of a headscarf being r..."We would use the term in reference to a grandmother or old woman but I have never come across it in reference to a headscarf. We would call it a platok. It sounds as if it is an americanised term for the scarf.
Anastasia wrote: "Cleo wrote: "Anastasia wrote: "The forensic detective seems a bit up himself as well. I don't remember him from the previous books. Does anyone remember if he was in any of the previous books as it..."Yes, but the story isn't about Endicott. If you want my perspective, as the writer of the work, I'll tell you what Endicott is - he's an obstacle. The story is about a set of primary characters (Matt, Clare, Quinn, Franco...) and the choices they make when put under pressure. Who are they? What choices do they make when pushed one way or another? You see, Leila is an obstacle, as well, bringing multiple levels of challenges to our main character...you don't have to like her because the story isn't about her. I don't know if that helps you in analyzing the piece or in enjoying it, but that's how Marc and I approached the telling of this tale...
Jill wrote: "Ok, catching up here. Since everyone has commented on things, I just want to say that I think the Storybook Kingdom festival sounds like so much fun! I didn't like Mr. DNA in Holiday grind and he h...""You have to have one person that tilts the scales." - Nicely put!
Allison wrote: "Tina wrote: "Oops, some PI I make, Jill. lol Sorry about that Allison. ;-)"It's all good! No worries. Does anyone else see anymore Fairy tale references? We know that Ms.Cleo is really good at ..."
Allison - Thanks for the hidden meanings shout-out. :) It's hard to know how to talk about this because Marc and I write the book to be enjoyed. If you stopped a ballet in the middle of the performance to discuss the meaning of the story and the proficiency of the dancers, would it harm the enjoyment by the audience. My guess is a big, fat hell yes. Which now makes me wonder whether I should want my books discussed in a forum like this, help!
On the other hand, you all are here because you *want* to discuss the book as you go...so I'll give you that. On the hidden meanings, I can say this - fairy tales are already packed with all kinds of psychological meaning and Marc and I were aware of that going in. For example, Red Riding Hood represents something different than Sleeping Beauty, and we were keenly aware of that when drawing parallels in ONCE UPON A GRIND. The choices are not random. For more reading on the subject of meaning in fairy tales, here is a link, fyi: http://www.amazon.com/The-Uses-Enchan...
Cleo wrote: "Anastasia wrote: "Cleo wrote: "Anastasia wrote: "The forensic detective seems a bit up himself as well. I don't remember him from the previous books. Does anyone remember if he was in any of the pr..."I liked how Clare handled the meeting with him and as it had mentioned previous encounters I wanted to go back and see what had happened then.
Tina wrote: "Luuuuv the theme. What could be better than princesses of pink, red, green...hues of all kind. And the princes aren't too shabby either.What I like about Ms. Coyle's writing is that she follows..."
Tina - I want to thank you again for inviting me to participate in your Parlor PIs discussion group. I'll give a shout-out to my readers about the group and see if they want to jump in, as well.
On the subject of reading coffee grinds, this is a very old art, which began in Turkey, a country that has an ancient connection to the culture of coffee. In the larger scheme of things, reading coffee grinds is part of an ancient tradition of seeing the divine within the mundane. Every human culture has developed something like it (casting runes, reading Tarot, palms, etc...)
In our modern world, it's a parlor trick, a carnival attraction. And on one level, as the book opens, Clare is simply dismissing any interest in wasting time with it.
But on another level something else is going on. Remember the epigraph at the opening of ONCE UPON A GRIND? "If you ever find yourself in the wrong story, leave." That applies to a few characters in the book, including Clare.
It may appear, in those opening pages, that Clare is struggling with Matt over getting her coffee grinds read, but she's also struggling with her story as it stands. She knows the coffee reading will be more than a parlor trick, it will involve the discussion of a future she is conflicted about considering.
I'm not sure if this is helpful to add, but Marc and I don't approach our scenes and sequences lightly. We want you to read them with speed and amusement, but (I think) one of the reasons our series has been around for ten years and counting is because we don't write "on the nose," as they say in the theater. We write with subtext. Or at least we try to, and that's likely why readers tell us they enjoy re-reading our books. Once one gets through the mystery, one can go back and focus on the characters and their struggles and begin to see more of that subtext revealed and more meanings emerge. This is our goal, anyway--it's certainly up to the readers on whether we achieve it!
Anastasia wrote: "I liked how Clare handled the meeting with him and as it had mentioned previous encounters I wanted to go back and see what had happened then. "
Oh, I see! Thank you for clearing that up for me, Anastasia. What an excellent reason to go back in time with any character--to see how they reacted in the past. (I now know what a teacher feels like when she wants to give a student an A+.)
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Tina wrote: "So loving the chat. Thank you, Cleo! Will go back and read s'more...Tina - You guys are great. Thank you again for taking the time to read and discuss ONCE UPON A GRIND. On your question: Many years ago, Marc's grandmother taught him to read Tarot, and he's very good, which gave us a working understanding of the general process of what goes on at a reading. And we've both had our coffee grinds read. Interesting research to be sure. (Also delicious research because we enjoy Turkish coffee!)
For any readers who stop by here in the future, I am happy to share my blog post (linked below) in which I take you on a little walking tour of New York's legendary Central Park. There are beautiful photos in the post, interesting tidbits, and two short videos. You can read the post at this link:http://www.cleocoylerecipes.com/2015/...
This Central Park walk was part of the research that Marc and I did as we prepared to write ONCE UPON A GRIND, and if you're reading the book, you might have a good time recognizing the landmarks and locations since the first third of the book takes place there.
Thanks again, everyone, and may you always read with joy!
~ Cleo Coyle, author of The Coffeehouse Mysteries
and Haunted Bookshop Mysteries
www.CoffeehouseMystery.com
"Where coffee and crime are always brewing..."
Facebook.com/CleoCoyle
Twitter.com/CleoCoyle
Founding member and contributor to...
www.MysteryLoversKichen.com
Loved the tour Thankyou My daughters are planning to visit the park mid year but I doubt if I will ever get there
Thank you Cleo for taking the time to be here. It was so fun!If I ever am able to visit New York I know I will go to some of the places I read about in your books.
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Tina wrote: "We'll move The Parlor to NYC and have a read & discuss in real time!"I'm in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tina wrote: "We'll move The Parlor to NYC and have a read & discuss in real time!"That would be so cool!
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Sounds like fun! I'm going to pack my bags right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
