The Mookse and the Gripes discussion
Best Translated Book Award
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2021 BTBA Speculation
The hiatus makes me wonder if they lost Amazon as a sponsor.
The sponsorship amount was $5,000. I doubt money was the issue.
That's a lot of money for Amazon - it's a whole year's taxes
Second only to a forum member in their expertise on tax avoidance
Well not much expertise in my case - me, 3 members of Take That and Anne "Weakest Link" Robinson all went down with the Tottenham
Paul wrote: "That's a lot of money for Amazon - it's a whole year's taxes"Ha!
I noticed that Chad commented about general stress related to University of Rochester financial pressures, and he's also been working on reviving Dalkey, so I think those things have been occupying him maybe?
Yes I think so - indeed I meant to comment on that. Ultimately this isn't the Booker with a huge budget and full time employees, but rather a labour of love in someone's spare time. And reviving Dalkey (who oddly didn't support the BTBA) is pretty important.
Despite there being no BTBA, feel free to make recommendations on what you think was the best translated lit. I read several from what we chose last year. This year I haven't read as many translated books but I did read some good ones.Here are a few publication best of the year lists.
https://www.wordswithoutborders.org/d...
https://asianreviewofbooks.com/conten...
https://www.worldliteraturetoday.org/...
I just finished The Anomaly Hervé Le Tellier This is a marmite book and will draw a good deal of negative criticism but it also is an interesting experiment with points for discussion and a perfect example of the trend of mixed genre, sober/comic literary novels being released recently. I am liking this particular trend for the most part though I find these novels can sometimes frustrate us where we cannot readily define them.
Of words without borders list I’ve read four: In the Company of Men 4*, Winter in Sokcho 5*, To the Warm Horizon 5*, Bolla 5*, and Tokyo Ueno Station 4*, and I have Strange Beasts of China and In the Eye of the Wild.Of Asian review of books I’ve read only China Room 3*, and have on my shelves Strange Beasts of China, Love in the Days of Rebellion and A Passage North.
I couldn’t find a list of best translated fiction on WLT, but I did get myself a subscription as a holiday gift.
From these lists:1. The Books of Jacob
2. Bolla
3. Cursed Bunny
4. Winter in Sokcho
5. Love in the Big City
6. Planet of Clay
I found this list: https://www.worldliteraturetoday.org/...Of which I have or have read: FEM, To the Warm Horizon, Cursed Bunny, Eleven Sooty Dreams, The Dangers of Smoking in Bed: Stories, A Perfect Cemetery, Slipping, Nancy, Summer Brother, In Memory of Memory, Bolla.
So in terms of the future of this prize. Moving discussion here from the International Booker threadChad Post posted a rambling, almost it felt drunken, post on various topics here: http://www.rochester.edu/College/tran...
It included this on the prize ...
First up, the Best Translated Book Award.When we put this on hiatus in 2020, it totally made sense. The world was ending! Everything was on fire! But now, three years later, the world is still on fire (maybe even more so), and we haven’t done a single thing.
There are two-three issues at play here. First off, the funding from Amazon dropped over the past few years, and without any other organization/angel donor to step in . . . well, reducing the prize money is a step in the wrong direction.
Secondly, the time required to coordinate fourteen judges, accept and log over six hundred submissions, and properly promote all the longlist/shortlist/winners is a lot. (Time is the villain of this post.)
Finally, I want it to be different from the National Book Award for Translated Literature and the Man Booker International. But how? What is the rationale? What makes it interesting?
If you have ideas and ambition and desire, hit me up. (Preferably by text. I’m embracing my worst email habits at this time.)
I do know what I don’t want for BTBA 3.0: Translators judging translations. This field is way, way too small for inclusions or snuffs to not feel/be personal. This is true for the translators involved and their publishers. Most translators are hustling, and if there’s an Open Letter title that’s “tied” with one from New Directions or FSG . . . we ain’t gonna win. (Actually happened, so this is still just truth saying and not hate slinging.)
And, pardon my French, translators are sooooo bitchy. I’ve ignored multiple awards this year once I saw which translators had been named to the jury. We all have agendas—mine is pro-experimental weird literature and anti-Zambra—and seeing them play out in Award Land is both disheartening and pathetic.
A correlated problem is that if you ask authors to judge these awards—the closest thing to “celebrity” in the eyes of booksellers, readers, and the like—they’ll ALSO starfuck the credibility away right from the jump. We all have motives, which is why indie booksellers kowtow to the Big Four to get bigger rewards: both in terms of financial kickbacks (aka co-op) and cultural capital.
Who should judge an award? And why do TWO PRESSES (Titled Axis and Fitzcarraldo) make up almost 50% of the International Booker longlist? The concept that out of 135 submissions, 10% make the longlist (13 titles) is already bananas enough, but to claim diversity while simultaneously worshipping the same old same old has left me cold.
I couldn’t care less about which book wins this award. There’s basically zero chance I’ll have time to read it.
Personally I think Chad, if this post is any guide, needs a break from social media, posting etc. And certainly would be better stepping away from running a prize if you're making it clear you've got beefs with all sorts of authors, translators, other publishers, other prizes.In particular if you dislike translators so much why on earth run a prize for translated literature?!
And generally the BTBA prize may be better dying quietly and being replaced by the National Book Award and the US RofC, the first of which has been much better at actually promoting translated literature and the second which focuses specifically on the presses.
But this was an award many of us used to love. Indeed it was the BTBA coverage on the old pre Goodreads forum that attract me to Mookse and Gripes.
So any ideas for how the prize could work? Either post here or post on Chad's feed.
https://twitter.com/chadwpost/status/...
Chad might have burned bridges that can’t be easily repaired if he remains the face of Open Letter and the BTBA.Posting on social media while angry and drunk is really foolish. How does he come back from authors “starfuck…” and translators are “soooo bitchy”?
I just read Chad’s posts in that Twitter link, he is bitter man, but now I know what anti-Zambra means. I’m not as sorry now that I didn’t renew my OL subscription.
The appeal of the BTBA was that it was a list of the Best according the Chad and a group of people who broadly share Chad’s preferences, under the guise of being only about translated literature. The NBA has its own biases, and Isabel Allende is probably never going to be nominated for either, but the curation part is hard to capture in a set of rules. The US RofC might be the best stand-in.As for something new, I’ve had a couple thoughts:
1) Best New Translated Voice - The BTBA that is only eligible for an author’s first work in English. Reward publishers who take a risk on someone new.
2) Best Untranslated Book Award - This might be a rights nightmare, but translate a short selection from untranslated works and judge them to build hype for titles that publishers would like to publish but aren’t sure there’s a market.
The other format would be rotate languages so the judges could be selected by year.
I would say one of the flaws of the BTBA was that it was a list of the Best according to Chad and like minded readers choosing the books year after year.I assume there has to a permanent administrative arm of different prizes, but I think it’s better to have fresh judges each year.
Maybe the RofCUS/CAN (I wish there was a less clunky name) can add a translation category.
Paul wrote: "Personally I think Chad, if this post is any guide, needs a break from social media, posting etc. And certainly would be better stepping away from running a prize if you're making it clear you've g..."Wow, this post made me come back to our initiative we had a while back. I will not even comment on the posted rambling except to say that I am shocked that someone who was a part of the Three Percent and its BTBA wonders about the rationale for continuing with the translation prize while the US market still shows a minuscule percentage of translated books. As for other translation prizes, the more the better if you are a lover of literature.
At any rate, thank you Paul for posting this, though I wish it wasn't on my birthday :-)
I do wonder if something good can come out of all this - how do you feel about us having our own M&G annual award for the best translated book? No money, no plaque, no competition concerns, just our love of reading. We all have our jobs and family, and it could be manageable if each of us suggests 2-3 books for the annual pool, probably not exceeding a total of 15-20 books or so, a sort of the suggested longlist and then we go from there.
It is worth a try although back in April we seemed to vanish down a rabbit hole of eligibility (UK vs US publication dates), whether this should exclude International Booker books, rather oddly some wanted non-translated books. And even with that we didn't work out how we would do it in any case.Feels we'd need
a) to agree on eligibility
b) how to choose a longlist
c) how to choose a winner
For a) are we after a BTBA 2022 - i.e. translations published in the US in 2021? Per the PW database (is that reliable for 2021?)
We could have a Listopia for nominations as we tried before but allow a moderator discretion to decide what books count
For b) I suspect we may have to have a list of nominations and then those interested have an initial vote on ones they are most interested in from the description. If someone nominates a 5,000 or 5 page novel, or an impossible to read one, or a hard to source one, then they'd have to persuade others to include it on the longlist.
For c) we have a tried and trusted dynamic rankings method.
NB the PW database has 327 fiction books in 2021. So that could be our list, no iffs and buts.Or we could simply make it 'translated fiction in 2021' and leave it to people's discretion as to how to interpret that with a moderator having a veto if anything looks particularly odd.
Paul wrote: "It is worth a try although back in April we seemed to vanish down a rabbit hole of eligibility (UK vs US publication dates), whether this should exclude International Booker books, rather oddly som..."Fantastic, Paul.
For (a) I don't think that this time we need to worry much about occasional discrepancy in the publication year between UK and US publishers because these can be ordered from booksellers online or directly from (usually small press) publishers. Last year we tried to shadow BTBA as they took their hiatus and had to follow their criteria, incl. strictly the US publishers/publ. year. But this time it would be just our group and we can make our own rules, n'est pas? :-) How about translated books published in the same calendar year by either UK or US publisher?
For (b) my way of thinking is more in the GT backwards-induction mode, starting with the total number of books we can all read and then deciding on how to get there. It seems to me that about 15-20 books would be reasonable for this final pool (long-longlist?) given that a number of M&G members who might be interested already read other awards' lists, besides, of course, our job and personal commitments.
(c) easy - exactly as you say!
Just my two cents/pennies.
Paul wrote: "Or we could simply make it 'translated fiction in 2021' and leave it to people's discretion as to how to interpret that with a moderator having a veto if anything looks particularly odd."I think we cross-posted at the same time. Exactly my thoughts, Paul.
Thanks. Good to get the views of others who might like to participate. I would be tempted to exclude books featured on the International Booker to avoid discussing same books again, but open to views.
Mod
I would be tempted to exclude books featured on the International Booker to avoid discussing same books again, but open to v..."
That would rather increase the budget for anyone who wants to read all of them!
True - but then as Gumble (I think) pointed out last time, with the IB books it just becomes an IB discussion. E.g. do we really want a debate about the Books of Jacob?Unless we want a 'what really was the best translated book of 2021' competition - where the IB ones go up against those in the US and those that didn't make it. And I guess we don't need new threads for books featured on other prizes. That could work.
Think we just need to decide on something - a benovelent dictator may be required to do so. Vesna - could that be you?
Paul wrote: "Think we just need to decide on something - a benovelent dictator may be required to do so. Vesna - could that be you?"Oh, no, if I were to "rule" anything, it would turn into anarchy! I'm
lucky that our pet dog is not spoilable. Joking aside, I think you, Paul, would be perfect for it. I am sure I am not alone in saying that you have been a great advocate for contemporary translations and have done a big service in spreading the word about many recent translations on GR with your reviews, book lists, etc.
May I make a suggestion for the books already awarded or short/long-listed for other awards? How about setting a certain limit, say up to one-third or one-fourth (it's just a momentary arbitrary pick) of the books in the 'final pool' that we will all read, which can overlap with those listed in major awards? I think this could avoid the issue of too many overlapping discussions while at the same time can be budget-friendly.
I second Paul as M&G BTBA Tsar, with Vesna as Vice-Tsar.
So no books over 100 pages as rule no 1?
And any book with the original so-called author name more prominent than the (real author) translator also banned.
French flaps should receive bonus points.
I thought Americans called them Freedom Flaps
It’s a misnomer because they’re originally from Belgium.
WndyJW wrote: "I second Paul as M&G BTBA Tsar, with Vesna as Vice-Tsar."Lol. Wendy, any historical aka real Tsar would have responded: "Vice"- what???!!"
You go, Paul!
Yes, but this Tsar is Paul. He thinks outside the box.
Rather long post by Chad Post in which he mentions Zamora reached out to him after Chad’s blog and they are now besties (which is very generous of Zambra) and confirms the BTBA is on semi permanent hiatus unless …“If we can find a rubric that would a) cut down on the number of eligible books, b) set us apart from NBA + Booker, and c) entice someone into funding this at $50,000 a year, we’re back in business”
Answer to a) is ask people to enter and if needed restricted entries. But that makes b) worse and good luck with c) although I doubt the old budget was anything like that (they paid no prize money at all iirc)
http://www.rochester.edu/College/tran...
Paul, I still think that our own (M&G) BTBA is worth considering, perhaps to make it easier with something like 'Our favorite books of the year - dynamic rankings' but restricting it to the translated lit. What our group has is (d) heart and enthusiasm, the omitted item on his abc list.
The last attempt disintegrated a bit into different views on the rules eg BTBA eligible or anything. Not sure either if people would actually read the books on the list rather than vote for the ones they had read - and the International Booker is out soon.
I think the question is what gap the award would fill, particularly since it wouldn’t carry much if any economic prize.
What I meant was to simply have the annual ranking of the books translated during the same period as we do for the general list. Some books in translation we read are already on that list but I imagine much more would be nominated if there is this supplementary list of our favorite translated lit. A few M&G members already read lots of new translations... It wouldn't preclude us from nominating translated books for the general dynamic ranking, but more of these would be presented if it's supplemented with the dynamic rankings of transl. lit. only. This would hopefully encourage others to read more translations which was the initial idea behind the three percent & BTBA initiative.
I can see we could have added a best books in translation section to the book of the year list here. I think around 30 of the 80 are translated although if we'd asked for best translated book nominations we'd likely have got a larger and different selection.
Worth trying now?
I am all fo it, Paul. The only question is if it would be too much for Hugh to run it now as it involves the work he didn't anticipate. Perhaps we can come up with some simpler ranking method for 2022 and then use the standard two measuring scales in the future. Either way is fine with me.
Mod
I would suggest a list without translation also then next year as again I think we could get a much broader selection
One idea might be to open a thread called 2023 Translations. Anyone who's interested could simply list the translated books they read throughout the year (published in 2023?). We could do the normal table at the top of the thread. This eliminates the need for nominations.(This is in reference to the comments before GY's suggestion about a list without translation.)
We could try it for 2022 as a test run. Each of us could list the translations we read that were published in 2022. The top X from Hugh's method plus the top Y from Paul's make a group longlist. Or something like that.Using the dynamic rankings as guide, and including only the translations published in English in 2022, the longlist might look something like this:
Hugh's top 6:
- Call Me Cassandra
- Pollak's Arm
- Valli
- Too Much of Life: Complete Chronicles
- Querelle of Roberval
- The Pachinko Parlour
Paul's top 6 (not already included):
- Twilight of Torment: Melancholy
- What We Fed to the Manticore
- Solenoid
- December Breeze
- The Man Who Sold Air in the Holy Land: Stories
- Mystery Train
My first impression is that this is a very interesting list that, for better or worse, may depart substantially from the IBP.
Good idea, David.Among my top 6 only 3 are included in the dynamic rankings:
- The Pachinko Parlour
- Time Shelter
- A Mountain to the North, a Lake to the South, Paths to the West, a River to the East
- Pollak's Arm
- The Famous Magician
- Chilean Poet (distant 6th)
Your top 5 are excellent, Vesna (joking!).That's a good point, though. We would want to do a separate thread that isn't limited to what the group nominated for our personal favorites for the year. I like the idea of not doing nominations at all - we just list the books we've read and let the rankings take care of the rest.
The Mookse and the Gripes
Books mentioned in this topic
The Pachinko Parlour (other topics)Time Shelter (other topics)
Pollak's Arm (other topics)
A Mountain to the North, a Lake to the South, Paths to the West, a River to the East (other topics)
The Famous Magician (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Hervé Le Tellier (other topics)Annie Ernaux (other topics)
Adania Shibli (other topics)
I do remember Chad Post talking about changing the format once the NBA added a translated fiction category, and was a bit hopeful something would come if it.
I’d love to see an award for 1st time translations of an author into English.