Discussion: End of Year/Hogwarts Challenge

[Jessica]

I have been looking forward to the House Cup Challenge all year! It is also the only challenge I have time to participate in each year and love an excuse for reading during the holiday season. Lots of people had great ideas about changing the rules (cap on comics, etc) and I want to say any of them are OK with me-I just loved the comraderie and competition.

[Rowiey]

ive also been looking forward to this challenge all year, i love the hp theme regardless of the author but do understand if it makes people uncomfortable so id like option 1 or 2
if we were to change its theme then spring/summer/autumn/winter could work, or main elements water/air/earth/fire, if you can have more then 4 houses/groups we could do a divergent theme? candor/amity/erudite/dauntless/abnegation (maybe even throw factionless or divergent in there)

points/books wise i dont overly care to much, ill do what i always do and read a book i want to read and if it fits in the challenge then great, if not then it just wont count - regardless id of read a book that i wanted to read, and really thats all that matters, last year during the challenge i also added the books i read to my son, after the challenge i stopped adding them to my goodreads (because im lazy and didnt see the point as i wouldnt use these books for the relay race and dont like how they effect my recommendations) if we can still use them for the challenge then ill be adding them onto goodreads again, if they arnt included then thats also fine, it wont stop me reading them regardless

[Jess]

Not holding the challenge is punishing the people who love the Harry Potter story with all their hearts even though we did nothing wrong. I look forward to the Harry Potter Challenge and hope that we will be holding it again this year.

[Britt]

I like the idea of the four elements or seasons if we go with an alternative! Really hope we do it, I’m already mapping out my reads 🙂

[Nora]

I would like to have the challenge this year. The challenge is fun. Can we add a extra team for people who join after a certain date(October 15th) Because, new comers bring down the average.

[Britt]

So Joanna are we going to have the challenge this year?

[Joanna Loves Reading]

Britt wrote: "So Joanna are we going to have the challenge this year?"

Yes, we will have the challenge. We are not going to keep the Harry Potter theme for this year. We are planning on the elements, though not necessarily "Last Airbender" themed.

Sorry this is brief. I know there are more questions to answer, and we certainly appreciate all the feedback. I will post more later today.

[Mandy]

I am on mobile, so it is not easy to discern whether this has already been suggested, but would it be terrible to have a separate end-of-year challenge for the readers who would wish to continue the Harry Potter theme? I don’t suggest this in an attempt to be divisive, but I do think that it might prevent a good deal of drop out from the challenge, as so many have expressed they would wish to continue with the challenge as it was.

I agree with the others who have stated Rowlings’ personal opinion is completely separate from her body of work. I believe once an artist releases their work into the world, it no longer belongs only to the artist. From my perspective, Hermione would never agree with Joanne’s recent statements. I understand and agree with the call to make every reader comfortable and included. I also love HP, regardless of its creator’s beliefs, and I think others in this group feel similarly.

If the goal is readership, I believe this might be a fair possibility that meets the purpose.

[Britt]

@joanna sounds good! Yay can’t wait! :)

[evofox]

out of curiosity has anything changed with using manga, comics or picture books this year? read comments about it earlier in the thread but wasn't sure if it had changed. also a new theme sounds cool, changing it up keeps it interesting

[Sonsoles]

Bryce wrote: "out of curiosity has anything changed with using manga, comics or picture books this year? read comments about it earlier in the thread but wasn't sure if it had changed. also a new theme sounds co..."

Hi, We talked about that and the possibility of putting a limit for the number of points that you can get with those, but to be honest, I don't know if a final decition has been made. I guess we'll know when they post all the rules for the challenge.

[Satrina]

I really enjoyed past years' challenge although sadly last year due to family health issues, depression, etc I wasn't able to contribute as I would have liked to my team... In fact, I dare say I haven't been able to recover from last year's issues so, maybe this challenge would get me out of the rut I'm in.

A big thank you to the mods for all the work and thoughts you put into the group.

[Joanna Loves Reading]

Sonsoles wrote: "Bryce wrote: "out of curiosity has anything changed with using manga, comics or picture books this year? read comments about it earlier in the thread but wasn't sure if it had changed. also a new t..."

We're still ironing out the specifics on that, but we will have a cap on easy point-getters, 10 books per month per participant. But what is an easy point-getter is the part that's not settled. Is it simply the children's/manga/comics or do we base it on size of book.

That being said...I will post the rules today even if that is still being determined. Sorry for the delay. Last night was hectic.

[Susan]

Hi, I've been out a lot the last year or so, but I like the idea of just counting pages, it keeps it simple. All the minutiae from a couple of years ago was discouraging, at least to me. The half point per picture book, comic, manga or poetry seems reasonable- children's chapter books would seem ok to go with straight page count, if that's the primary system.
I'm fine with giving up the Hogwarts houses for myself, but would any enthusiasts be comfortable corresponding the houses to the elements in some way? People could then assign themselves as they prefer & view it either way, if that's not offensive to anyone. Keep or toss :)

[Susan]

(I still support the half point or cap for those 4 genres because of few words / high white space. Some coffee table / big photo books could qualify for that too, so people really just need to do the right thing lol)

[Paddy]

I'd personally prefer option 1, keeping things the same. But, in light of what the author has said, I would be fine changing the name of the houses.

[Joanna Loves Reading]

Susan wrote: "Hi, I've been out a lot the last year or so, but I like the idea of just counting pages, it keeps it simple. All the minutiae from a couple of years ago was discouraging, at least to me. The half p..."

Talking about the houses is fine. I think that could be interesting to see if any elements tend to line up with the different houses. We're planning to keep the same scoring system as last year, essentially, which seemed to work pretty well. It's evolving challenge so if we don't like something this year...we can revisit it next year! I agree two years ago was too much in the weeds, what counts, what doesn't...thanks for the feedback and good to hear from you!

[Joanna Loves Reading]

Paddy wrote: "I'd personally prefer option 1, keeping things the same. But, in light of what the author has said, I would be fine changing the name of the houses."

Thanks Paddy...we are essentially just changing the names of the houses...the structure will be the same.

[Joanna Loves Reading]

Satrina wrote: "I really enjoyed past years' challenge although sadly last year due to family health issues, depression, etc I wasn't able to contribute as I would have liked to my team... In fact, I dare say I ha..."

I'm sorry to hear about your struggles Satrina...I hope this does help with the rut. Take care. I personally feel you bring a great presence and insight to everything you participate in this group so really happy to have you.

[Joanna Loves Reading]

Mandy wrote: "I am on mobile, so it is not easy to discern whether this has already been suggested, but would it be terrible to have a separate end-of-year challenge for the readers who would wish to continue th..."

Hi Mandy, it's a very fair suggestion but it's not very doable, I'm afraid. It takes a decent amount of work to keep up with this challenge and two would likely be beyond what we can do. Thank you for the suggestions, though.

[Joanna Loves Reading]

Jess wrote: "Not holding the challenge is punishing the people who love the Harry Potter story with all their hearts even though we did nothing wrong. I look forward to the Harry Potter Challenge and hope that ..."

Hi Jess, I just want to say that I'm sorry you see it this way. This was not meant to be an anti-Harry Potter thread, but a can we/should we consider a different theme. I still delight in reading Harry Potter as I think many in this thread do.

In my view, challenges are something we do together if there's interest. It's more of a reward or encouragement. They are not something we have to do. They do take some effort, through planning and monitoring, so I don't see a change as punishment, but I respect your Point of View.

[Joanna Loves Reading]

Anjanette wrote: "I would like to have the challenge this year. The challenge is fun. Can we add a extra team for people who join after a certain date(October 15th) Because, new comers bring down the average."

Thanks Anjanette. Since we are calculating participation per month, this was not nearly as much of an issue last year. We are going to continue to do this. If that needs to change for next year, then we can reconsider.

[Joanna Loves Reading]

Abbie wrote: "I'm so happy to see this discussion here. I've loved participating in this challenge the last few years but I've grown very uncomfortable participating in HP fandom at this point. This is a persona..."

Thanks Abbie. I think we can look to have the genre game in the future. We'll post a next year's challenges planning discussion in the next month or two and we can consider that one then.

[Joanna Loves Reading]

Ok, I'm sure I have not responded to everyone, but I tried to address most of the concerns. If there's something that still needs addressed, please let us know. Thanks so much for all the feedback!

In deciding to switch themes or essentially de-theme the challenge, we looked at the responses. Overall, some expressed a preference for keeping the Harry Potter theme. Some did express uncomfortableness with the Harry Potter theme. Most seemed ok with either option. We appreciate the willingness to change things up and try something new. It hopefully will be good times!

I'm going to post the challenge thread now, so be on the lookout. I'll post the link here when it's up. Thanks all!

[Britt]

You rock Johanna, thanks for your careful consideration with this! Can’t wait for Oct 1st.

[Renn]

Joanna Loves Reading wrote: "Britt wrote: "So Joanna are we going to have the challenge this year?"

Yes, we will have the challenge. We are not going to keep the Harry Potter theme for this year. We are planning on the elemen..."

Thank you! I was kind of struggling with whether or not I still wanted to do the House Cup challenge this year. Switching up the challenge to be Elements themed feels a lot more comfortable for me to participate in.

[Jessica]

I was really looking forward to the house cup challenge. Like, literally, all year. Changing the theme is really not the same game. can't we have two different ones, and the anti-HP crowd can sit that one out? I feel like we are all being punished.

[Nikita]

I understand but I do think its better to compromise and do something different so that everyone is comfortable, rather than do something where even a small amount of people are uncomfortable and feel that they can participate, I feel it is fair. It's not that people are 'anti-hp', just recent events. Nothing to say that it won't change back next year, but everything else is the same, just different team names.

[Jessica]

I'll be interested to see how the numbers who sign up compare to last year. I hope the leadership will look at that and reconsider for next year. I have a feeling you'll find that you are excluding a lot more people than you are including doing it this way. Best of luck.

[Joanna Loves Reading]

Jessica wrote: "I'll be interested to see how the numbers who sign up compare to last year. I hope the leadership will look at that and reconsider for next year. I have a feeling you'll find that you are excluding..."

Hi Jessica, based on your previous input in this thread, I thought there was an openness to changes. I'm sorry I misunderstood. The main purpose of this thread was to discuss whether or not to keep it HP focused, though it did veer into challenge specifics. We will take into account participation for next year but we are hopeful that members will join for the comradery you mentioned. You are still welcome if you change your mind. Thanks for your input either way.

[vrenzy]

hi... since poems, picture books get fewer points.. can you keep in mind that audiobooks also don't actually don't count as books, and maybe they shouldn't get a proper full point either? also, no hp theme is a bit disappointing..:)

[Sonsoles]

vrenzy wrote: "hi... since poems, picture books get fewer points.. can you keep in mind that audiobooks also don't actually don't count as books, and maybe they shouldn't get a proper full point either? also, no ..."


Yeah, I agree with this, I listen to audibooks too, but listening doesn't take as much effort, time or attention as reading takes. I don't think this is something that's gonna change this year since the rules are all set, but it's good to keep it in mind maybe to open debate for the next one.

[Britt]

vrenzy wrote: "hi... since poems, picture books get fewer points.. can you keep in mind that audiobooks also don't actually don't count as books, and maybe they shouldn't get a proper full point either? also, no ..."

I respectfully disagree - I feel that we're still putting in the same amount of time it takes to read a book, as we're listening to every word that is written. Sure people can not pay attention as much but that's at their own loss. I always listen carefully and rewind if I zoned out or missed something.

I also think it may dissuade some people from participating, some people don't have the luxury of being able to sit down with a book i.e. they have to take care of kids, house, etc. or have vision or concentration problems and only audio works for them.

[Mandy]

Britt wrote: "vrenzy wrote: "hi... since poems, picture books get fewer points.. can you keep in mind that audiobooks also don't actually don't count as books, and maybe they shouldn't get a proper full point ei..."

Agreed with you on this! I'm a WAHM with two children under age two and a virtual music school to run. My daily hour-long commute while they nap in the car is the only time I have for "reading" on most days, so I listen to audiobooks. That is my sacred time, and I'm grateful I am able to participate in this challenge despite not being a traditional reader.

[Sherri]

Who cares what the author has been reported to say?
I love the stories, never loved the author.
I vote we do the hogwarts thing!
😄

[Sonsoles]

Britt wrote: "vrenzy wrote: "hi... since poems, picture books get fewer points.. can you keep in mind that audiobooks also don't actually don't count as books, and maybe they shouldn't get a proper full point ei..."

Mandy wrote: "Britt wrote: "vrenzy wrote: "hi... since poems, picture books get fewer points.. can you keep in mind that audiobooks also don't actually don't count as books, and maybe they shouldn't get a proper..."

Nobody said they shouldn't count.

But some people who has kids and read with their kids other kind of stories are being "penalized", as people who reads poetry, which doesn't imply being easier or shorter just for having less words per page.

And I'm a person to listen to more audiobooks than to read poetry (actually I haven't read any poetry for years), so this is not something that affects me directly, but I can't help seeing this a bit unfair and also may disencourage people to participate.

[Joanna Loves Reading]

Sherri wrote: "Who cares what the author has been reported to say?
I love the stories, never loved the author.
I vote we do the hogwarts thing!
😄"

I understand, Sherri, but we did decide to change themes. I hope you choose to join the modified challenge: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

[Joanna Loves Reading]

Sonsoles wrote: "Britt wrote: "vrenzy wrote: "hi... since poems, picture books get fewer points.. can you keep in mind that audiobooks also don't actually don't count as books, and maybe they shouldn't get a proper..."

I am audiobook listener too...but one thing I don't do is choose the audio edition listed on Goodreads. I just choose whichever edition is most popular. I'm assuming that others (not all but some at least) do this too. For this reason, I think this would be harder to keep track of than comics/manga.

Perhaps in Feedback this year we can ask how many participants get their points through audiobooks...we can also revisit what is fair on getting half points. I was not sure on having the half points last year, but in practice, it seemed to work much better than I expected.

Thanks all for the feedback.

[Joanna Loves Reading]

Hey all, I'm going to archive, but not close this thread. I think it might be confusing that we're still looking for feedback on the theme for the challenge.