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[2021] Poll 10 Voting
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Nancy wrote: "I'm curious why the royalty prompted was restricted to non-European, I could see non-British as that's featured in so much fiction but I feel like the rest of Europe is a lot less represented. And ..."I am no means an expert in the history of royals but the families are very interconnected in Europe. Queen Victoria married a German, Marie Antoinette was Austrian, Henry VIII's first wife was Spanish. So it makes sense to group them to me.
dalex wrote: "For the royalty prompt, several people have listed royal figures from various countries but not books about them. I've been trying to research this prompt and have come up with pretty much nothing...."The Commoner - about Japanese royalty
Shark Dialogues - Hawaiian family saga, one of the initial characters is Tahitian royalty
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Although I like the first prompt, A book set in a former colony other than the Unit..."
This is a good point, they were actively colonized/occupied. These countries and tribes existed in their own right. It is sort of like instead of "slaves", it is more powerful to say "enslaved people" or "people who were enslaved", and instead of "owner" (a terrible concept I never used to question), I have now seen"enslaver". It struck me differently when Georgetown University admitted they sold "people" than selling "slaves".
Oh, and for fiction about non-European royalty, I've just remembered Genghis: Birth of an Empire which I read years ago; historical fiction about Genghis Khan.
I'm intrigued by the question, so I gave myself 15 minutes to find as many non-European royalty novels as I could:The Drowning King
Cleopatra's Shadows
Empress Orchid
The Moon in the Palace
Nefertiti
The Heretic Queen
The Descendants
The Last Aloha
The Sultan's Harem
The Stolen Girl
The Book of Saladin
Of course there are many more ...
Obvs disclaimer I haven't read most of these, but book options:Nonfiction
Empress Dowager Cixi: The Concubine Who Launched Modern China
Hawaii's Story by Hawaii's Queen
Salote: Queen of Paradise
When Montezuma Met Cortes: The True Story of the Meeting that Changed History
Shaka: The Story of a Zulu King
Hirohito and the Making of Modern Japan
Geronimo: My Life
Lots of exciting narrative nonfiction, but I am more of a nonfiction reader
Fiction
Monkey: The Journey to the West — Wu Cheng En
Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Vol. 1 of 2
Any of the books from the Royal Diaries series — fictionalised accounts of diaries of princesses: Sondok: Princess of the Moon and Stars, Korea, A.D. 595 and Kazunomiya: Prisoner of Heaven, Japan, 1858 to name a couple
Empress Orchid — Anchee Min
The Whale Rider — Witi Ihimaera — bit of a stretch maybe
Nefertiti
Amina Making of a Queen — Sholape Kolawole
Beneath a Marble Sky
Esther: Royal Beauty (ft Xerxes of Persia?)
Ramses: The Son of Light
royalty of which there are a few books written about them: Nefertiti, Tutankhamun, Chief Pontiac, Pocahontas, Empress Cixi, Attila the Hun, Genghis Khan
Listopia:
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/4...
Perhaps an amendment could be non-Western instead of non-European; for some reason my brain doesn't include non-EU eastern Europe to be in part of "the West".
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Emily wrote: "eleen, what about this wording?
A book set in a place that was once colonized, other than the United States and Canada"
I like it heaps!
Aimee wrote: "Oh, and for fiction about non-European royalty, I've just remembered Genghis: Birth of an Empire which I read years ago; historical fiction about Genghis Khan."I was just researching Genghis Khan also and came up with these 2:
The Conqueror series by Conn Iggulden
The Private Life of Genghis Khan by Douglas Adams and Graham Chapman
I don't read a lot of fantasy (I know there are tons of options) but could continue with the Elric of Melniboné series.
I'm leaning towards voting for this one just because it is more challenging. Thanks everyone for your suggestions!
Going through my list for non-european royalty of varying degrees of strictnessThe Last Days of the Incas
The Whale Rider (if Moana counts as a princess...)
Gods of Jade and Shadow
Ali and Nino (maybe)
Bygone Badass Broads: 52 Forgotten Women Who Changed the World
Throne of Jade
Children of Blood and Bone
Alif the Unseen
Shadow and Bone
The Red Pyramid
The Song of Achilles (troy isn't in europe)
The Princess Diarist (Carrie Fisher is a queen. Fight me on it.)
I thought that "A book that uses something other than consecutive numbers to designate chapters" would be hard to find but, going through my book shelf, I easily found 6. This might be one of those prompts that you figure out that it fits after you read the book. Here are a few ideas and how the sections are organized:Sleeping Giants - File numbers
Clara Callan- Year
The Island of Sea Women - Title and time frame
The Lacuna- Location and time frame
Let the Right One In - Each part has a title and a quote or 2. Chapters within the part are days of the week
Let the Great World Spin - Titles only
I think I will vote for this one now that I understand it better and have found some books that I own.
Shelley wrote: "(Carrie Fisher is a queen. Fight me on it.) ..."Never has a truer statement been uttered. No fight here! lol
Irene wrote: "I apologize in advance for being "that" person!! But... I don't think enough people are aware that Cleopatra was of pure Macedonian Greek descent, as the Ptolemy dynasty in general was started by..."
I did remember this from the book, but I was more taking it literally as Cleopatra didn't rule in Europe so this might be KIS option for people who have been wanting to read about Cleopatra.
Katelyn wrote: "Irene wrote: "I apologize in advance for being "that" person!! But... I don't think enough people are aware that Cleopatra was of pure Macedonian Greek descent, as the Ptolemy dynasty in general ..."
Would a book about Grace Kelley work for the reverse? Or Megan Merkle?
Also, this may be a stretch or a creative way to interpret, but the Kennedys are regularly referred to as American royalty. There are a lot of fiction and non-fiction books about the Kennedys, or at least feature members of the family or the JFK assassination in them.
dalex wrote: "Well, for my birthday there's this - "2020 The World Health Organization declares COVID-19 virus a pandemic."Ugh."
My birthday this year was the day they declared COVID-19 a national emergency here in the US, so I feel your pain!
The discussion has been really helpful this round. I share by birthday with Bill Gates so I would probably go for a book on one of his reading lists if that prompt makes it. I also have Beijing being declared the capital of China, the Alaska highway connecting to northern US and the establishment of Harvard University which are definitely workable options. My favourite though has to be 'Elvis Presley receives a Polio vaccination on national TV' in 1956!
For the non-European royalty these may be another couple of options (I haven't actually read them so can't confirm!):
The Shadow King (Ethiopia)
She Would Be King (Liberia)
dalex wrote: "For the royalty prompt, several people have listed royal figures from various countries but not books about them. I've been trying to research this prompt and have come up with pretty much nothing...."The Floating City takes place on Hawaii during the end of the Hawaiian Monarchy and between each chapter includes historical facts on how the Hawaiians lost their island. Its a nice read.
There is also Hawaii's Story by Hawaii's Queen, but its quite an exhausting, non fiction read. Liliuokalani was an interesting person, but not that good a writer.
The Orchid House includes Thai royalty, if I'm not mistaken.
The Glass Palace follows several families, one of them being the Royal family of Burma as they're send to India into exile by the British Occupants.
The Twentieth Wife is a fictional account of the life of Mughal Empress Nur Jahan.
The Pearl That Broke Its Shell tells in part the story of a woman, who'll become a guard at Harem of the King of Afganisthan.
Edit: I forgot Empress Orchid because I haven't read it. But its supposed to be good. Takes place around the Chinese Emperor.
A few thoughts while I try to decide how to vote:Former colony: Not terribly inspired by this one. It's certainly doable.
Not the intended target: I like this one. I missed a lot of beloved children's classics as a kid, so I could do one of those. Or a YA book.
Genre you don't read often: Love this one. There are tons of genres I'd like to read more of but never quite get around to it.
Clue weapon: My initial reaction was "Nope we had that in 2018." But I dug around and found quite a few possibles. I won't downvote.
The chapter prompt: Neat scavenger hunt prompt. I found some good things while researching.
Google doodle: Once I figured out the right search terms, I came up with a few possibilities. My strategy, if this goes through, is to use an author and just read a book by him or her.
Power struggle: Still researching this. It has some definite promise.
Roaring '20s: I'd probably default to fiction set in or written in the '20s. I wouldn't mind reading Summer for the Gods: The Scopes Trial and America's Continuing Debate Over Science and Religion, though.
Ghosts, vengeful spirits, lost souls: While it would be easy to go metaphorical with this, I'd probably just read a ghost story if it goes through. I have several options.
Short book: Easy. Tor novellas make this a slam dunk.
Initials: Easy enough. I don't know that I'll vote for it, but I've been meaning to reread LotR, so it's an easy fill.
Wikipedia birthday: I wasn't keen on this initially, but I did manage to find some option. I narrowed by focus to authors who were born or died on my birthday or actors (two or three of them had movies that were based on suitable books).
Non-human: This would be easy enough.
Heroic: Nearly any book could fit here if you squint or use a liberal interpretation of heroic.
Royalty: I'm never keen on reading about royalty, and with the non-European stipulation, it's even tougher. I guess I will use fantasy royals if it goes through.
So to sum up, I still don't know what to vote for.
When people mention Tor Novellas, are you talking about this site: https://www.tor.com/I just tried to google it and this was the first result, but I've never heard of it before this discussion
Alicia wrote: "When people mention Tor Novellas, are you talking about this site: https://www.tor.com/I just tried to google it and this was the first result, but I've never heard of it before this discussion"
Yeah, Tor is a publisher that releases a lot of fantasy/sci-fi novellas. They're usually inexpensive and quite good. It's a great way to find new authors without committing to a lengthy book.
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1...
Alicia wrote: "When people mention Tor Novellas, are you talking about this site: https://www.tor.com/I just tried to google it and this was the first result, but I've never heard of it before this discussion"
Yes, Tor is known for publishing wonderful sff short stories and novellas. They have a free ebook club, if you sign up for their email list, and many of the monthly free ebooks are novellas (though others are full-length novels); they also publish a lot of short stories for free online.
For what it's worth, when we had the Clue/do weapon prompt before, I ended up using a book of historical fiction that had a 19th century ship on the cover, both ropes and guns - not a mystery at all (although I do read a lot of mystery). Things like candlesticks and wrenches are also not at all limited to mystery/crime novels. Just throwing that out there! (Though I like the prompt myself, I understand if people don't want to upvote one that's already been on a relatively recent list.)
I actually like several of the prompts this time, which hasn't always been the case. I particularly like the non-European royalty prompt, as there are SO many countries and so many royal histories in the rest of the world. (I've got a book about Hatshepsut I've been meaning to read for awhile, so that's a strong possibility for me, or maybe a reread of Girl, Serpent, Thorn, or just straight up the Shahnameh.) I find it nicely specific without being too limiting. I liked the initials prompt initially (heh), but agree with the responses about it being anglocentric, so I'm taking it off my upvote list.
Katelyn wrote: "Irene wrote: "I apologize in advance for being "that" person!! But... I don't think enough people are aware that Cleopatra was of pure Macedonian Greek descent, as the Ptolemy dynasty in general ..."
I do think Cleopatra does qualify as "non-European royalty" - my bad if it sounded like I was saying it shouldn't count! I was just pointing out that she might have been the ruler of a non-European country, but that she herself was actually of full European descent, made ruler of Egypt by a European king (Alexander the Great). So she barely squeaks by if the spirit of the prompt was trying to promote more diverse reading. It definitely fulfills the letter of the prompt, if not the spirit, if that makes sense.
I do think Russia can be a good KIS option since Russian royalty intermarried with other European families and they were culturally (and somewhat geographically) European.
@Shelley, not sure what you mean. By reverse, do you mean if the prompt was "European royalty"? I'd count both Grace Kelly and Meghan Markle in that case since they did join a European royal family. That also wouldn't be a prompt promoting more diverse reading though, since I think the prompt was suggested due to most people only reading about European (especially British and French) royalty. Even a lot of fantasy is based on old/medieval European backgrounds!
I wound up going 5/3 in my voting. Changed my mind at the last minute on one of my votes. Super-indecisive this week.
Just signed up for Tor! I love fantasy and novellas, so this is perfect me.
Voted yesterday, but completely forgot to post! I think this was probably the easiest round for me to decide, since there were several that immediately jumped out to me as something I really wanted.I voted for ghost/spirit/lost soul, power struggle, nonhuman character, "heroic" character, and non-European royalty. These were all prompts that I loved as soon as I saw them, and some of them fit in so well with books I'm already thinking of reading.
I downvoted Roaring Twenties, author with two initials, and the Wikipedia prompt. I could definitely find something for any of them if they get in, but they were the prompts I was least excited for or thought would be most difficult for me to find a book for.
Emily wrote: "eleen, what about this wording?A book set in a place that was once colonized, other than the United States and Canada"
This is every other country, then. There may be a few that were not colonized sometime in the past 2000 years... but only a few, because Rome colonized most of Europe and the Middle East, then European countries and Japan colonized most of the rest of the world. And if you go 50,000 years back, everywhere outside of Africa was colonized by people moving out of Africa. So if there is no time limit on this, it's a wide open prompt.
For BIO, one could specify a place that was colonized at a specific date, or by a specific nation.
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Robin P wrote: "Interesting, that also shows our Eurocentric focus. I imagine the original intent was Africa/Southeast Asia/South America/India, etc. But logically, you are correct."Actually, with apologies if this offends, I think it shows a North America-centric focus, because it doesn't take account of European history.
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Actually, wit..."
No offense, good point.
Rosemary wrote: "Emily wrote: "eleen, what about this wording?A book set in a place that was once colonized, other than the United States and Canada"
This is every other country, then. There may be a few that we..."
This is a great point, especially about the time limit. My first instinct was definitely more of an "Age of Discovery"/UK/Spain/Portugal-centric focus as I was mainly thinking of Commonwealth countries…
As a BIO option, you could read a book set during the timeframe of colonization (so, Roman colonization of Britain for example). I would argue, however, that the definition of colonization (when referring to the political kind, not ecological), suggests that the colonizing forces retain their ties with the colonizing state. The mere movement of people without those ties (ie out of Africa to the rest of the world in prehistoric times) is an act of immigration, not colonization (unless we are invoking the ecological term, not the political one).
Wendy wrote: "I would argue, however, that the definition of colonization (when referring to the political kind, not ecological), suggests that the colonizing forces retain their ties with the colonizing state. The mere movement of people without those ties (ie out of Africa to the rest of the world in prehistoric times) is an act of immigration, not colonization (unless we are invoking the ecological term, not the political one). "Yes, good point. I was also thinking, since the wording is "a place" rather than a country, that it would apply to colonization of other planets in SF. But perhaps that is technically immigration too, depending on the situation.
I think colonization implies that the people arriving rule the place on behalf of their home government, taking over power (by force or otherwise) if there were already people there. That's not the case with immigration, even if an individual becomes powerful in the new country.
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I've been reading a bunch of Kevin Kwan- just finished the Crazy Rich Asian books and have started his new one Sex and Vanity and they all have Thai, Malay, Brunei, or other Asian royals.
There is also Sara Forbes Bonetta, a princess from Africa who was Queen Victoria's ward. Always wanted to read about her Sarah Forbes Bonetta: Queen Victoria's African Princess
Ooo! The Sonali Des Jane Austen series that starts with Pride, Prejudice, and Other Flavors features an Indian maharajah's family. There are probably other books like this that feature royals but aren't about royalty.
I'll probably read something about Hawaii as I know not much about them.
Regarding royals: I only just thought of this because they aren't from a real country, but Alyssa Cole's romance series, "Reluctant Royals" each involve a member of a royal family.A Princess in Theory (prince of Thesolo)
A Duke by Default (Scottish duke - do dukes count as royalty?)
Once Ghosted, Twice Shy (this one involves the assistant to the Thesolo prince)
Can't Escape Love (the sister in law of the Thesolo prince)
A Prince on Paper (the stepson of the Liechtienbourg king)
How to Catch a Queen (king of Njaza)
Last time I checked, Scotland was very much real and in Europe...But I think Crazy Rich Asians would be possible, because one of the cousins (?) is married to Thai royalty.
Nicole wrote: "Last time I checked, Scotland was very much real and in Europe..."
Yes, of course. The series mostly hinges on Thesolo, which is why I didn't think of it.
Thanks for all the suggestions regarding the royalty prompt everyone. Gives me a few ideas. If this gets through, it'll be a difficult one for me, as I don't enjoy reading about royalty.Right now, my strategy will be to reread Neil Gaiman's Cinnamon, which is about an Indian princess with pearl eyes who doesn't talk.
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But I think Crazy Rich Asians would be possible, because one of the cousins (?) is married to Thai royalty."
Yeah, the Thai aunt/cousins are in the last book of the trilogy as well as a wife of the Sultan of Brunei or something like that. The first book has a princess from somewhere.
Scotland is def in Europe
I almost always will upvote a prompt involving short books, because those can be such a godsend when I'm scrambling to keep pace with my reading challenge. I upvoted the non-Euro royalty prompt as well because I've had a book about the Dowager Empress Cixi sitting on my shelf for years and I need the kick in the pants to read it. Upvoted the Wikipedia prompt but not the Google Doodle, because they do feel like they overlap somewhat and I like the personalization of the Wikipedia prompt better. Plus, I share a birthday with Karl Marx! Maybe 2021 is the year I finally read The Communist Manifesto, haha. I downvoted the Cluedo weapon prompt because I find cover prompts kind of a pain. Ditto with the chapter numbers prompt. That's really hard to search for and is also not something I generally pay much attention to when reading, so I couldn't even say what books I've already read would fit.
I’m currently reading a great book for the chapters prompt. David Mitchell’s new one. All the chapters are song titles from the bands album. Would’ve been perfect. Oh well, it’s also perfect for book published in 2020 for this years prompt
Nadine wrote: "A Duke by Default (Scottish duke - do dukes count as royalty?)..."Well I had to look this up, you can be a duke and not royal. British monarchs used to hand out duchies to people who pleased them, and that used to come with a nice bit of land to lord over. They then could pass the title down to their sons, but it didn't make them royal.
However the royal duchies are given to certain members of the royal family eg. Prince Philip is the Duke of Edinburgh and William is Duke of Cambridge.
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Some good prompts this time round! I love the birthday Wikipedia prompt, hope that gets through.I downvoted a few that I’m not really interested it, but the one that confuses me the most is the book for which you are not the intended audience. Surely as a reader, you are the intended audience for all books? Or at least that’s how I view it, I could be completely missing the point!
I think the intended audience prompt is mainly referring to a different age group, e.g. a children's or YA book. could also be a book published before you were born.
Examples for a book for which you are not the intended target could be:- a book that was published when you were a child that you weren't old enough to read
- a book published in another country or language
- a book that falls outside of your age range (middle grade or YA if you are an adult)
- a non-fiction book about a topic that doesn't apply to you (about bee-keeping when you don't have bees, farming when you work in an office etc.)
- book that has been 'gendered' (I buy books a lot as presents. For Mother's Day the adverts and shops focus on chick-lit whereas on Father's Day it is crime novels and books about trains. I would much rather read about trains.)
Yay results day! At this point I don’t even care what prompts make it onto the list. I’m just crossing my fingers for more than one result. Ha.
I agree. The first few rounds seemed to go so quickly and now it feels like ages. I need some research to keep me busy over a long weekend.
Around the Year in 52 Books
Books mentioned in this topic
Crazy Rich Asians (other topics)Cinnamon (other topics)
Crazy Rich Asians (other topics)
A Prince on Paper (other topics)
A Princess in Theory (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Liliuokalani (other topics)Conn Iggulden (other topics)
Robert K. Massie (other topics)
There are lots of books about French royalty, though maybe not as many about some of the other countries. Still, getting us out of Europe is probably a good thing.