The Lazy Tour of Two Idle Apprentices (hosted by Ashley) - 4th Summer Read 2020

[Sara]

For anyone who might be interested, this is a quick bio of Wilkie Collins and quite interesting. It was posted by a GR friend in another group.

https://www.wilkie-collins.info/wilki...

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

That's a great little bio! Thanks for sharing it here, Sara :)

[Katy]

Thank you Sara for sharing this.

[France-Andrée]

Very interesting bio, thanks Sara. Collins and Dickens seem to have shared common experiences in their childhood and Collins unconventional stand towards marriage might be something Dickens might have been envious of.

[Ashley]

Thanks Sarah! I’m not familiar with Collins at all.

[Connie]

I enjoyed Collins' bio too. Thanks for sharing it, Sara.

[Sara]

Happy to share.

France-Andrée - I thought of that as well. I imagine Dickens took this as an encouragement in keeping his own long-time mistress.

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

France-Andrée and Sara - I'm not so sure that fits in with Charles Dickens's character. In fact I can't actually think of one instance in his personal life where he took advice, and didn't "know best" - except occasionally in literary matters with John Forster.

I do know that they argued often about it in private, and Charles Dickens strongly disapproved of his friend Wilkie Collins's views about marriage, which is all the more puzzling to us, because of his attempt to divorce Catherine. (He gave up the idea when he found out how much it would cost.)

But I can't quote the source of this. It might be from his letters or from Claire Tomalin's biography ... it's not likely to have been divulged by the carefully loyal John Forster, who kept anything remotely critical which he might have thought about about Charles Dickens strictly to himself.

Quite honestly, Charles Dickens had arguments and break-ups with his friends so often, that it's hard to remember them all :( We've talked about he story behind the reasons behind the break-ups with Elizabeth Gaskell and Hans Christian Andersen already.

Then there's Robert Seymour, who killed himself when working with him - we don't know why - but can certainly harbour suspicions. And also George Cruikshank, who took over, and was a marvellous illustrator of his books. But when George Cruikshank became a teetotaller, Charles Dickens disapproved, and ended the relationship. All Hablot Knight Browne ("Phiz")'s illustrations owe so much to George Cruikshank' initial conception and style, that we tend to forget Charles Dickens's early illustrators.

And these are people who are still well-known today! It's sobering to think of all those people who must have crossed him in the 19th century, and are now forgotten. Anyone who kept their friendship with Charles Dickens must have had the patience of a saint!

Probably the reason Wilkie Collins managed to not fall out irretrievably with Charles Dickens, was that Charles Dickens was so conflicted. He never managed to reconcile his views and the opinions he promoted in public with his own personal behaviour. In fact he spent an inordinate amount of time in covering his tracks. Wilkie Collins on the other hand, did not care about appearing "proper" and Charles Dickens strongly disapproved of this outward display of unconventionality.

It is interesting to speculate on Charles Dickens's private motivations though :)

[Sara]

He was nothing if not complicated. I'm sure you are right that there were myriad individuals who crossed his path and were then forgotten forever. It is hard to imagine his feelings appalled at Wilkie's behavior in light of his own.

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

The closest I can make sense of it to myself, is that Charles Dickens felt that they were both in the public eye, and had a duty to uphold the status quo. This only applied if it was something he approved of of course, such as marriage, and he would challenge the Poor Laws, for instance, to get them changed.

So Charles Dickens would expect Wilkie Collins to do as he did, and keep a private mistress, and not live with her openly. If those in the public eye felt free to do this, then he probably thought public morals in general would decline. It's very much of its time, but would fit in with the Victorian view of responsibility allied with patronage. Broadening it out, it's reflected in how the British Empire viewed their position in the world.

Nowadays we view this attitude as condescending and hypocritical, but I wouldn't be surprised if Charles Dickens thought Wilkie Collins had a duty to behave as he himself did. In my opinion this fits better with his opinionated personality - and the times - than Charles Dickens feeling encouraged to keep his mistress, or envious of Wilkie Collins.

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

Here is another illustration, this time to chapter 4: The Ghost's Narrative:



Arthur Layard 1890

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

Today is the final day for this read. Thank you very much to Ashley, for hosting it.

The four Summer reads will stay current and open for comment until we begin our next read, in a fortnight's time.

[France-Andrée]

I understand how Dickens thought about Collins’ situation publicly. I do still wonder how he felt in his head about it. We don’t always say what we think privately... or maybe I’m trying to read 21st Century thoughts in him that couldn’t have been there; Collins’ attitude is so normal today (though his children not having his name is very much of his time).

Thank you, Ashley. It was interesting to explore Dickens and Collins’ friendship through this fictional story.

[Connie]

Thanks for suggesting this story, Ashley. This summer was the first time that I have read Dickens' short stories, and I enjoyed the variety in the stories we read during the last four weeks.

[Sara]

Thanks so much, Ashley. Really enjoyed the story and the dynamics between the two authors.

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

Before this thread is archived, here's a bit of interesting (but sad) news from our member Steve.

A Lancashire bookshop, local to him, has sadly just closed. It is in a historic building which is part of the "Kings Arms Hotel" building, where Charles Dickens and Wilkie Collins both stayed. Shortly afterwards Charles Dickens wrote about it in ... you've guessed it, The Lazy Tour Of Two Idle Apprentices.

The hotel also apparently inspired the included story, "The Bridal Chamber".



"Kings Arms Hotel, King St., Lancaster"

In 1868, Charles Dickens had told the "Illustrated London News" that the hotel was "very quaint ... it was, and is, and will be for many a long year to come, a remarkably picturesque house."

[Sara]

Sad. Looks like it was a huge bookstore. Sad to see all the bookstores disappearing.

[France-Andrée]

That's so sad about another bookshop closing, but it isn't surprising with the crisis we are living and the migrating to ebooks.

That is a beautiful building and it feels a little strange to look at somewhere in the present that influenced a story written so long ago. It's so important to keep the architecture from the past in our lives even if a little adaptation inside is sometimes needed.

[Ashley]

I just realized that this was published just after our current read!

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

Yes, it was serendipitous :)

[Katy]

I, too, am sad about the closing of bookstores. I just love the whole feel of being in a bookstore.

[Rosemarie]

I've finally gotten around to reading this and have to say that Thomas Idle was truly lazy! How convenient that he sprained his ankle.

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

LOL Rosemarie - I love how exaggerated and tongue in cheek it all is. I'll bet Charles and Wilkie had a lot of fun writing it, and trying to outdo each other in their portraits :D

Thanks for commenting :)

[Rosemarie]

I think one of my favourite scenes is the tiny place they stay in where you can see Scotland-and that's all that is to do there.

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

Well, it's something to talk about!