The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion
This topic is about
The Haunted Hotel
Wilkie Collins Collection
>
The Haunted Hotel - Part 1 - Chapters I thru IV
date
newest »
newest »
message 51:
by
Deborah, Moderator
(new)
-
rated it 4 stars
Jan 17, 2015 12:17PM
Mod
reply
|
flag
Deborah wrote: "We now begin our discussion. For those of us who are further along in their reading, please avoid any spoilers.While we have no physical description, we enter the story in Victorian London. Colli..."
1. What does Dr. Wyebrow's choice to initially ignore the Countess and sneak out of his office tell us about the status of women?
Well, it doesn't speak volumes for equality, by any means. However, I questioned the status of women in the eyes of Wyebrow more so when he says he knows women who never hesitate at sheltering themselves behind the privileges of its sex-What privileges was he speaking of exactly... I was thinking along the lines of women being cunning... Perhaps (I)?
2. The Countess has a very physical reaction to meeting Agnes. Is this premonition or guilty conscience?
Yes, she does and I also found this to be true in the dynamics between Wybrow and the Countess when they first met-Both Wybrow and the Countess were taken by something in the other person, respectively. To your question, as far as having a guilty conscience, however, the Countess feels guilt because she innocently robbed her (Agnes) of her lover, and destroyed her prospects in life- It's more along the lines of guilt by association, I feel, regardless of her not knowing Lord Montbarry was two timing Agnes behind the Countess' back (II).
This scene between the two women was highly dramatic, especially on the Countess' part, but it spoke to her insecurity than anything too revealing about Agnes. Who knows, maybe Agnes "is" too kind to the point it feels more sinister than anything else-I don't think it is, but who? If retribution is to be had by Agnes, (great foreshadowing in Chapter 2 and further cemented in Chapter 4, by the way) I think it will be at the expense of Lord Montbarry and not the Countess as much as she thinks it; granted, she is married to him, so maybe she'll feel the repercussions?
Just to touch on the initial meeting between Wybrow and the Countess...
First of all, he makes that lewd comment about women's behaviors and the "privilege of their sex," but he continuously refused to meet with the Countess where Collins remarks Neither language nor her action had the slightest effect in inclining him to grant her request, and isn't this a fine example of the fine Dr. "sheltering himself behind the privileges of his sex"...Obstinacy (I)? Very hypocritical, I thought.
Next, it is said the the silent influence of her face gave Wybrow pause; but the pace and tone of what follows, essentially a long drawn out description of the Countess' face, which seemed far from anything depicting a silent influence...glittering metallic brightness in her large black eyes...ghastly complexion, and with the less noticeable defect of a total want of tenderness in the expression of her eyes (I). Did I misunderstand the "silent influence" remark?
Finally, I couldn't tell if the Dr. was frightened, enamored/taken, or both, by the Countess. I thought his account of how "her eyes met the light which flowed in on her with the steady like an eagle and the smooth pallor of her unwrinkled skin looked more fearfully white than ever was describing her in a somewhat ethereal manner-he was excited by her presence (I)? Agnes' presence made the Countess nervous to the point of fainting, but the Countess' presence also sent Dr. Wybrow into internal tizzy...No?
3. Lord Montbarry does not release the Countess from the engagement. Hypothetically what would happen to her if her reputation was ruined? Is her reputation already ruined?
The Countess' association with Lord Montbarry does not really help her cause, by any means, for her history prior to Montbarry seems riddled with scandal to begin with. There's something worth bringing here, however. Those who speak against her honor are primarily from the Montbarry's family and those privy to the gossip, but the nameless lawyer's account of the Countess is quite different...I wonder if she's being misrepresented by those other than the lawyer?
4. Why do you think Dr. Wyebrow was so affected by the Countess?
Sheer intrigue, after the fact...She's also easy on the eyes in spite of her questionable state. I'm wondering why she would come to this Dr. in the first place regarding her mental state. It's either he really is the best at diagnosing mysterious ailments, or there's another connection.
5. Do you find Collins' use of the Peerage a successful way to introduce a host of characters simultaneously?
It sure did spare him from writing a few more chapters didn't it and us from reading longwinded passages about characters? I've only ever read one other work by Collins, The Moonstone, it was rather verbose but I loved it...The Peerage saved us, trust me! :)
6. Agnes wonders if strong emotional connections between people who have once loved can ever be broken. What do you think?
They can be broken, but the ties that we feel bind us subside with time, that's the difference...The ties are present, they just become less valid. Agnes takes it to a whole other level, however, saving the locket of Lord Montburry's hair? It's obvious she still carries a torch for the man and I attribute this to Agnes not properly grieving the demise of her relationship with Montburry. She's felt sorry for herself all this time, that's all. I don't think it's possible to hang on to nostalgic keepsakes, like the hair belonging to an ex-fiance, and give yourself closure at the same time.
Overall I-IV
The wedding scene actually irritated me slightly, I disliked knowing many of those who were in attendance, including the fine doctor, cherished the obstinate hope that something worth seeing would unfold during the nuptials (IV)-How very despicable of the lot! What was worse, the attempt Dr. Wybrow made to hiding his presence at the wedding from the Countess as she walked up the isle to exit the church...I'm glad she saw and approached him without even flinching.
I think in today's day and age, Collins would have been a great screenplay writer. He has this seamless process in creating an air of drama and theatrics from the get go. Either by means of utilizing words evoking strong emotional response, or his understanding of social discourse, Wilkie Collins truly makes the reading process enjoyable...Even during those times you find him to be overtly loquacious!
Questions
What was meant by the line in reference to the Countess...It was doubtful whether she was really, what she called herself, 'a Dalmation lady' (III)?
Collins wrote plays for Dickens' theatrical company, in which they both acted so Collins was possibly thinking of a future production when he wrote this melodramatic book. I feel sure Lord Montbarry would have had a big black moustache:)The descriptions of the Countess' face accord with Victorian ideas of physiognomy telling the character. They felt that and phrenology gave them a good insight into how a person behaved. Do we think that way today and is this why some Westerners frown upon the niqab/burqa?
Madge wrote: "Collins wrote plays for Dickens' theatrical company, in which they both acted so Collins was possibly thinking of a future production when he wrote this melodramatic book. I feel sure Lord Montbarr..."Madge, how wonderful! I wasn't too far off then with the screenplays?!
Yes, phrenology/physiognomy...So very prevalent in the time period, for whatever reason, it escaped me while reading.
As far as frowning upon the niqab/burqa, I think, people attribute it more to women living an oppressed lifestyle (although, this is not the case for most of the women who wear it); but I wouldn't doubt it does psychologically tease onlookers not being able to assess the presence behind the nqab/burqa.
Mod
Great point about the validity of the gossip at the club. I missed that.
No, he would probably be working for Hammer Horrors today (or yesterday):)When speaking to Muslim women who cover their faces I find I miss their 'body language' and cannot 'read' them as well as if I saw their smiles, grimaces and frowns etc.
Mod
When speaking to Muslim women who cover their faces I find I miss their 'body language' and cannot 'read' them as well as..."
I agree. A lot of our communication is through body language. Lack of facial expression can easily lead to miscommunications
Something about Collins plays here Anne:http://www.wilkie-collins.info/plays_...
After the publication of The Woman in White Collins himself became a sensation. Manufacturers produced Woman in White perfume, Woman in White cloaks and bonnets, and music-shops displayed Woman in White waltzes and quadrilles. The poet Edward FitzGerald named his herring-lugger "Marian Halcombe"; cats were named Fosco and thought to look more sinister; and Walter became a fashionable name for babies.-
Deborah wrote: "Madge wrote: "No, he would probably be working for Hammer Horrors today (or yesterday):)When speaking to Muslim women who cover their faces I find I miss their 'body language' and cannot 'read' t..."
Madge wrote: "No, he would probably be working for Hammer Horrors today (or yesterday):)
When speaking to Muslim women who cover their faces I find I miss their 'body language' and cannot 'read' them as well as..."
Yes, however this same phenomenon can be experienced having a conversation via modern day technology (discussions via text, chat room posts, goodreads posts :P, etc). I find it difficult to assess, at times, properly what people attempt to communicate sitting behind a computer...The disposition of the writer behind the comments-Emojis, WRITING IN CAPS (I despise this, by the way :), exclamations, etc, only take one so far. In essence, we're all wearing burkas when we choose to engage in discourse in this manner. It's been said in research, how children raised in the age of the internet seem to lack the understanding of empathy for others sitting behind a computer, or phone, communicating with the masses. They lack the ability to gauge, much less hone in on the impact of one another's words.
Mod
When speaking to Muslim women who cover their faces I find I miss their 'body language' and..."
Agree. I just had a heated discussion with somebody yesterday who read to raise (as in a child) as past tense. She just couldn't get what I was saying no matter how clearly I tried expressing myself because there were no physical cues.
Deborah wrote: "Ami wrote: "Deborah wrote: "Madge wrote: "No, he would probably be working for Hammer Horrors today (or yesterday):)When speaking to Muslim women who cover their faces I find I miss their 'body l..."
Oops, I was adding to my post as you were responding. I understand completely your aggravation in the experience mentioned.
Mod
Ami wrote: "Finally, I couldn't tell if the Dr. was frightened, enamored/taken, or both, by the Countess. I thought his account of how "her eyes met the light which flowed in on her with the steady like an eagle and the smooth pallor of her unwrinkled skin looked more fearfully white than ever was describing her in a somewhat ethereal manner-he was excited by her presence (I)? Agnes' presence made the Countess nervous to the point of fainting, but the Countess' presence also sent Dr. Wybrow into internal tizzy...No?..."
I was confused by this also. In fact, this ambiguity set the tone for me with this novel. I didn't understand just where Collins wanted Wybrow to land in his feelings about the Countess, and I'm not sure Collins knew either.
Janice George (JG) wrote: "Ami wrote: "Finally, I couldn't tell if the Dr. was frightened, enamored/taken, or both, by the Countess. I thought his account of how "her eyes met the light which flowed in on her with the steady..."Collins wanted Wybrow to land in his feelings about the Countess, and I'm not sure Collins knew either
See, I feel it's very contrived. I remember thinking the same thing while reading "The Moonstone" in the beginning of the book when reading about the interactions between Rachel and Franklin Blake.
Mod
I'm a little more sympathetic to the poor Doctor trying to sneak out on his rounds without being held up (and made late) by someone who shows up late for his morning surgery. And, just as he suspected, she did take more than the 5 minutes she had requested!
I did not read the Countess as evil-she seemed more tortured and resigned to what I sense will be a grim fate. It feels almost as if she wants out of her marriage and yet can't find any reasonable excuse to leave, particularly after being tricked into accepting the hand of a previously engaged man. I wouldn't expect the evil woman to be the one that faints on meeting her rival, or feels frightened of going mad. To me, her deathly pallor is another suggestion that things will not end well for her. Her words on meeting the Doctor at the wedding also suggest she has taken another step towards her end by marrying Montbarry.
It does make you wonder if she's truly up to no good or merely feels guilty for stealing another woman's fiancé. The unexpected guilt of actually having to face her, Agnes, and see how innocent/devoted/devastated/whatever she is.
Deborah wrote: "Madge wrote: "I think perhaps the doctor was interested in her psychologically as psychiatry was a growing branch of medicine then.I note that in Chapter IV Agnes is described as being fair where..."
The way she release Montberry from the engagement also seems to put her in that role.
Ahh, but did she release "really" release him... I didn't think so, taking into consideration how much of the Montberry memory she still holds on to?
Renee wrote: "I think Collins took several shortcuts to get quickly into the story of the novel. The use of DeBrett's is one example; the coloring/naming of his female characters is another, as has been said. (A..."Henry Westwick seems the likely hero; jilted for brother, but still constant in his affection for the sublime Agnes. He seems fairly stock as the Victorian nice guy.
Yes, he would seem the "likely" hero, but I think otherwise. There was something else about him, perhaps, his eagerness...His intentions for Agnes to be vindicated were too enthusiastic- It seemed disingenuous, to me?
The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910
Books mentioned in this topic
The Moonstone (other topics)Brimstone (other topics)
The Notting Hill Mystery (other topics)
