The Old Curiosity Club discussion
David Copperfield
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DC, Chp. 01-03
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Linda
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Aug 07, 2020 08:36PM
Hello fellow Curiosities! I was able to start and slowly make my way through chapter three this week. I rarely reread books, only because there are too many books and too little time, but I couldn’t pass up rereading David Copperfield with some of my favorite GR friends here. And after five years since reading DC the first time, I find that sufficient time has passed that I do not remember all of the particulars, and I am slowly becoming reacquainted with these characters which I have forgotten. So far, it has been a total delight. It looks like I have a lot of catching up to do on reading comments, though! I hope to do so when my son is not monopolizing the computer. :)
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Yes indeed. Too many books, too little time. I’m happy that you will go on this reading journey with us.
I find DC rich in surprises, emotions, and characters. Each time I read it something and someone new always pops up to catch my curiosity and interest.
Enjoy.
Kim wrote: ""Jantine wrote: "my mother is from a fisherman's family in a town that could be compared to Brighton in some ways, but then Dutch. So I know a little about how life ..."
I love that story, and am so pleased that your cousin put it down so that future generations of your family will know it.
Tristram wrote: "there are either writers who tell a story but lack style or, worse, writers who don't tell anything interesting but do that in a plethora of words and forced imagery...."
If this is a sample of the wisdom being shared at your birthday celebration, I'm in. (There will be cake, right?)
I've never read Dostoevsky, but I guess now I'll have to add him to my list. The only Russian novel I've managed to get through is Anna Karenina, but I had to skim through all the agricultural stuff. Apparently I also need to try sherry at least once in my life. You people broaden my horizons in the most unexpected ways. :-)
Kim wrote: "If I'm going to narrate the story of my life it isn't going to last long, I remember almost nothing about it at all. "
I started writing my memoirs shortly after my mom died unexpectedly, and I realized how many things I never asked, and she never mentioned -- or that she mentioned and I just didn't pay attention. Lost opportunities, and regrets I don't want my kids to have. My memory is terrible, and I'm sure if my brothers read what I've written, they would argue details with me. And certainly what I've written will be of no interest to anyone outside my family. I've included the mundane (which is 99% of my uneventful life), but have also made sure I've put in my memories of things like the moon landing, 9/11, etc. to give a bit of historical context. Whether the kids and grandkids appreciate having it or not, it's been an interesting project for me. But no... it won't have details like those David seems to retain from his childhood.
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Jantine wrote: "my mother is from a fisherman's family in a town that could be compared to Brighton in some ways, but then Dutch. So I know a little about how life ..."
I love that ..."
Many long years ago it was sometime in January, I realized I remembered nothing at all about Christmas, not a thing. This upset me so much I told my doctor and asked him why I couldn't remember anything and he said for three reasons, from having seizures, all the medicine I take and getting older. I've never believed that last one. He suggested I keep a journal and I have ever since, 20 years or so. I wanted to call it "One flew over the cuckoos nest" but I got so tired of someone in my family telling me that was a movie I changed it to "Life Sucks". :-)
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Linda,
It's wonderful to have you reading along with us again. I agree that there are so many books and that life is comparatively short, but I have found that there is a special pleasure in rereading good books. One thing is that my memory never holds all the details and so I don't really know completely what is going to happen in a book I have already read. The second thing is that depending on my age, I react differently to a book I have already written - provided it is a good and complex book, which all Dickens's books are. Reading The Karamasov Brothers, for instance, was always a fascinating experience for me: I must have read it three or four times now. The last time I read it, I could understand the youngest son much better than the second son, probably because I had grown
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There will be incredible chunks of wisdom and cake during those birthday monologues of mine, of course. The wisdom bits might depend, however, on the quality of what the tumbler will contain.
As to Doestoyevsky, just go for him!
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Jantine wrote: "my mother is from a fisherman's family in a town that could be compared to Brighton in some ways, but then Dutch. So I know a little about how life ...."
I used to keep a journal for years, but then things started to happen and I had no time to write them down :-) On a serious note, I always found it easier for me to keep a diary when I was relatively dissatisfied with myself, when I felt kind of depressed or morose, but whenever I was happy and content, I did not feel like writing anything down. Therefore, in retrospect, my journals are rather ... grumpy.
Well, that is to be expected from a grump ;-)
I used to want to journal, but never really was good at it. I started to journal regularly again last year though, and I already filled a couple of notebooks. Somehow I do manage to keep it up now I let go of it having to be about noting down what happens with or around me. I just write what I want to write, and it's okay if I forget something, or ramble without really saying something, or just copy a quote and that's it. Things might be differently if I did to keep reminding things, but then if I want to journal for that I now have worked up a habit already.
Btw the 'unreliable narrator' as far as I know is not so much about it being memories only, it's also because someone still believes what they want to believe. An example we got in lit class about this was 'The Dark Room of Damocles', where the narrator wrote down his memories like he was a very important person in the resistance during WW2, he got his commands from someone who looked a lot like himself somehow. In the end you (almost or fully) get to believe his story, and then bam, he gets arrested after the war and sentenced for being one of the biggest collaborators/nazi sympathisants of the country. As a reader you never know if it really was this doppelgänger who was the collaborator and shoved the guilt onto the narrator (unlikely), or if he really believed his own story, or if it all was a lie to get people on his side and he fully knew what was happening.
David loved his mom very much, and f.i. wouldn't know if she really mismanaged her funds a lot, and couldn't cope with handling them. I've said this before, kids desperately want to see the good in their parents - and he doesn't have memories of her beyond those pretty early memories. We don't know how she acted, what she did, while he wasn't there, and neither does he. We don't know if these are true memories, or if he paints the Murdstones blacker than they were by saying he was hit like that to cover up that he bit Mr. Murdstone (like some kids might do without being hit, just because someone upheaves their lives in their idea f.i.). Does he really see them as all that he makes them out to be? Are they? Would he paint himself as naieve to make sure people believe him, or does he paint himself as naieve because he was and is he telling the truth warts and all? We don't know, and that makes this book the more interesting!
(I like the book way better than I thought I would btw. When I was a kid my parents had a video tape with a cartoon about David Copperfield being a cat, with mr. Murdstone being a wolf or something, and it was horrible! I did find it back too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uylk-... )
I used to want to journal, but never really was good at it. I started to journal regularly again last year though, and I already filled a couple of notebooks. Somehow I do manage to keep it up now I let go of it having to be about noting down what happens with or around me. I just write what I want to write, and it's okay if I forget something, or ramble without really saying something, or just copy a quote and that's it. Things might be differently if I did to keep reminding things, but then if I want to journal for that I now have worked up a habit already.
Btw the 'unreliable narrator' as far as I know is not so much about it being memories only, it's also because someone still believes what they want to believe. An example we got in lit class about this was 'The Dark Room of Damocles', where the narrator wrote down his memories like he was a very important person in the resistance during WW2, he got his commands from someone who looked a lot like himself somehow. In the end you (almost or fully) get to believe his story, and then bam, he gets arrested after the war and sentenced for being one of the biggest collaborators/nazi sympathisants of the country. As a reader you never know if it really was this doppelgänger who was the collaborator and shoved the guilt onto the narrator (unlikely), or if he really believed his own story, or if it all was a lie to get people on his side and he fully knew what was happening.
David loved his mom very much, and f.i. wouldn't know if she really mismanaged her funds a lot, and couldn't cope with handling them. I've said this before, kids desperately want to see the good in their parents - and he doesn't have memories of her beyond those pretty early memories. We don't know how she acted, what she did, while he wasn't there, and neither does he. We don't know if these are true memories, or if he paints the Murdstones blacker than they were by saying he was hit like that to cover up that he bit Mr. Murdstone (like some kids might do without being hit, just because someone upheaves their lives in their idea f.i.). Does he really see them as all that he makes them out to be? Are they? Would he paint himself as naieve to make sure people believe him, or does he paint himself as naieve because he was and is he telling the truth warts and all? We don't know, and that makes this book the more interesting!
(I like the book way better than I thought I would btw. When I was a kid my parents had a video tape with a cartoon about David Copperfield being a cat, with mr. Murdstone being a wolf or something, and it was horrible! I did find it back too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uylk-... )
Jantine wrote: "a cartoon about David Copperfield being a cat, with mr. Murdstone being a wolf ..."I watched a few minutes of this. Aunt Betsey was pretty harsh, dressing David up in a pink bonnet and singing, "I hate boys!" in a tone that let you know she meant it!
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Older.
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They must be very long too.
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December 24, 2019
It's Christmas Eve again somehow. It never stays Christmas for long. We went to the Christmas Eve service tonight, I played the new keyboard for the first and probably the last time, maybe I'll play it next Christmas, who knows. Ty sang on the worship team, the music was actually pretty nice for a change. Ty had a bad cold, but he still sang, now he's in bed though. I hope he feels better by tomorrow. I'm supposed to like the part of Christmas that is filled with people, people coming in and out of the house visiting, relaxing, looking, eating, but I just get so tired. Like now. And the big day is almost here, one of them anyway. I hope I can enjoy it, I feel like I'm rambling, it's getting late, really late. Ty and Wisp are in bed a long time now, Brandon is out with Grace wherever they may be. And I am here waiting for Christmas Eve to become Christmas Day for only one reason, to wish Jesus a happy birthday. And I believe we've just made it, another Christmas Eve is over. Happy Birthday Jesus.
Most of the time they're shorter:
Wednesday September 18, 2019:
Our last day at Frankenmuth. I can't believe I'm saying that. We did almost the same thing as yesterday only when I walked out the door of Bronner's this evening it was sad. Really, really sad.
Then there's:
Tuesday, October 1, 2019:
I had Botox for my headaches with the new doctor who's name I can't remember. My head hurts.
Your journal entries sounds more interested than mine, Kim, especially during Coronavirus. Mine mostly consist of what chores I may or may not have accomplished, what old movie I may have watched, what wildlife I may have seen while walking the dog.... pretty mundane stuff.I have my great-grandfather's diary from the early 1900s. He was a farmer, and his entries were weather reports, so I guess it could be worse. Though he did veer off topic once, and mentioned the Titanic sinking. As I recall it was all of two sentences, that the ship went down, and something derogatory about Ismay, the White Star Line bigwig who saved himself. aside from that, pretty dull reading.
Ulysse wrote: "And then there are the characters, those impossible puppets that only Dickens could pull off. Impossible in real life, but so alive in the world of his books. Just the names by themselves -- Betsey Trotwood, Dr. Chillip, Mr. Murdstone, Mrs. Gummidge, Peggotty --such wonderful names! paint pictures in the reader's mind. ..."I love these, too.
Peter wrote: "In this chapter we learn that David’s mother was an orphan, and that Betsey Trotwood was once unhappily married and is now separated from her husband. David is without a father. Peggotty does not have a husband. David Copperfield and his mother live in a home named Rookery after empty old rooks’ nests that no longer contain birds. Abandoned nests of birds and orphaned, or unattached people or abandoned people. This first chapter presents us with those who lack an intact family unit. This is a common trope in Dickens. Something tells me this novel may focus on how people find their homes."Yes! Or their families.
Kim wrote: "Then there is this, whether true or not I don't know:The gift that led Dickens to give up his treasured copy of David Copperfield:
The superstitious nature of Britain's greatest writer has come ..."
Kim, I love this. Very glad that Dickens was superstitious. After reading his books, I'd be disappointed if not.
Isaac wrote: "Does anyone else struggle with David’s mother, Clara? Each time I read these first chapters I am reminded how much I dislike her."Joining the chorus of "yes, me too" on this.
One thing I find very interesting about these first three chapters is how Clara and Pegotty are set up for comparison, with them even having the same first name (since that's why Pegotty goes by her last). Clara doesn't seem to have much going for her apart from her looks--whatever you think of Miss Trotwood, it looks like she was dead on the nose right about Clara being little more than a doll, all appearance and no brains or character--and I thought it was interesting that Davy finds Pegotty just as beautiful as his mother. It's like he has to be taught to value his mother's kind of looks more.
Then again, Davy also finds the two women equal in other qualities too; if anything he accepts his mother's judgment and sides with her over Pegotty when they argue. I want to say this is a bigger mistake than thinking Pegotty is beautiful, but maybe it's not. Maybe the point is that the only thing that matters about them is they both love him.
Though that's not right either. If his mother had the brains and Pegotty the beauty, it begins to look like things would have turned out better for David.
I'm not really sure where Dickens is going with this, but it made me think.
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Wow, what an interesting thought! Where would we be now if his mother was the one with the brains. Any brains at all. I'm going to have to think about this for awhile.
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They must be very long too."
Guilty as charged! I also destroyed some of the earlier ones because the ego writing them appeared unbearably romantic and sentimental to me. I have still got the grumpy ones, though.
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I used to want to journal, but never really was good at it. I started to journal regularly again last year though, and I already filled a couple of not..."
Jantine,
As I have a certain reputation of grumpiness to uphold, you may not be too surprised to hear that I do not really approve of David but find him rather annoying at times. I will talk about this in more detail later because as a boy, he does not strike me as particularly annoying whereas he does as a young man. Nevertheless, I don't put it past him to have invented the story of being beaten up by Mr. Murdstone, since I don't consider David a liar. When we are going to read Bleak House, a similar question as to the reliability of the narrator will arise again - in that book, there is Esther Summerson, a first-person-narrator, who presents herself as very modest but takes great pains to list up all the praise she gets from everyone around her. This, to me, seems like what a very crafty, dishonest person would do. Luckily, David is not like that :-)
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I knew it! I knew there had to be someone you could be grumpy about eventually. We're supposed to love David, so of course you don't. Poor, poor David. :-)
I totally see why already though. There's something in the way he treats people ...
And I always read Esther Summerson as very insecure, and by that very focused on what others think of her, but you're right. She does have an annoying habit of having others sing her praises in what she writes down.
And I always read Esther Summerson as very insecure, and by that very focused on what others think of her, but you're right. She does have an annoying habit of having others sing her praises in what she writes down.
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I seem to have that inclination never to do what I am supposed to do - just for the sake of being a nuisance ;-)
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And I always read Esther Summerson as very insecure, and by that very focused on what others think of her, but yo..."
Finally, someone who understands me on these two! I was thinking that maybe it is a thing with first-person narrators that you feel slightly distrustful of their viewpoint or motives, but then I remembered Jane Eyre - like Peter - and how I admired her for her calm dignity. She was certainly a heroine I routed for.
Yes, I routed for Jane too!
With David, it already is showing a bit though, in the earlier chapters. He can be quite condescending, and has an ability to throw people under the bus to have something to tell his peers that I didn't like.
With David, it already is showing a bit though, in the earlier chapters. He can be quite condescending, and has an ability to throw people under the bus to have something to tell his peers that I didn't like.
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With David, it already is showing a bit though, in the earlier chapters. He can be quite condescending, and has an ability to throw people under the bus to have somethi..."
Interesting you should say that, Jantine. Can you give an example of his tendency to throw people under the bus? It becomes a bit more obvious to me in the later chapters - in the first three or four, I did not notice.
I just realised it was in a later chapter, not in these ones yet. I was particularly thinking of the whole debacle with Mr. Mell, which is an installment later.
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I seem to have that inclination never to do what I am supposed to do - just for the sake of being a nuisance ;-)"
Well you're doing a wonderful job.
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I thought of the same thing.
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I seem to have that inclination never to do what I am supposed to do - just for the sake of being a nuisance ;-)..."
It just comes naturally, so it's a gift.
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I wholeheartedly agree with you!
