The Memory Police

[Trisha]

This thread is to discuss The Memory Police by Yōko Ogawa.

Pages: 274 pages

Length: 1 Month (August)

Participants: Trisha, Sinisa, oshizu, SarahKat.

Everyone reads at their own pace during a Buddy Read. Because participants can be at different parts of the book at different times, it is extremely important to mark spoilers so that the book is not ruined for someone who is not as far along as others!!!

Mark spoilers by placing {spoiler} before the text and {/spoiler} after the text but use the < and > instead of the { and }.


Happy Buddy Reading!

[oshizu]

I'm super excited about reading this book with you folks!

[Trisha]

Me too! :D

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

Me also!

[Sinisa]

Same here, having high hopes also. I have read and loved The Housekeeper and the Professor and L'anulare. Both books were so different in plot and this fit the pattern, looks nothing like ether one of them. Cant wait to see what will Yōko Ogawa do in my favorite genre.

[oshizu]

So...when do ya'll plan to start Memory Police?
I'm flexible and can start this book whenever the majority does.

[Sinisa]

I plan to start this weekend

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

I actually just picked it up from the library. I'll probably start it tonight if the kids leave me alone for a minute.

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

I just finished chapter 11. I keep having wonderings about the author's choices, not in a bad way. (view spoiler)[For instance, I wonder how much the disappearances will actually be part of the story. From the synopsis it sounds like a lot of this is about "R" being hidden away in our MC's house. I wonder why the author chose this particular dystopia as the backdrop. I am hoping it plays a bigger part as I love the magical realism element.

Also, so far the only named character was Inui, the professor who gave our MC's some of her mother's sculpted tapirs before disappearing. Why? It intrigues me. Also I love tapirs. I hope those don't disappear. (hide spoiler)]

[oshizu]

I'm a 1/2 book away from starting Memory Police. :D
Possibly tomorrow evening.

[Trisha]

I’m starting tomorrow morning, trying hard to finish my long pending GOT#2 tonight.

[oshizu]

I'm about to start reading Chapter 20 (Kindle sez I'm at 69%).

A general comment
*Names: Not using names is nothing new in Japanese literature. The Tale of Genji, completed around 1010 CE, runs over 1,000 pages and refers to its huge cast of characters only nicknames drawn from their actions within a three-generation storyline.

Something that annoys me
(view spoiler)[*The story seems to be set on a (imaginary) island in Japan.
The protagonist composes her novels by writing on paper filled with squares, which I assume refers to Japanese manuscript paper:
"I enjoy writing slowly, filling each square on the paper, one character at a time." (page 15)

Here's a sample image: https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gen...

It is useful for submitting text as one fills each square with a character, numeral, or punctuation per square, making it easy for a teacher, writer, or editor to gauge the length of a document.

Also, later in the text, the Japanese word for music box comes up (orugoru).
But then, why is the typist in the protagonist's novel using a non-Japanese typewriter?
Um, I guess that is the science fiction part, but the discrepancy annoys me, lol. (hide spoiler)]

I recently gave Ogawa's The Housekeeper and the Professor a 5-star rating. I'm not half as enthralled by Memory Police so far. We shall see.

On a side note, I absolutely loved Yoko Tawada's Memoirs of a Polar Bear (which I buddy-read with SarahKat last year), but didn't enjoy her The Emissary nearly as much.
Science fiction is one of my fave genres (two of my 2020 favorites so far are A Memory Called Empire and Revenant Gun), but The Emissary and The Memory Police will definitely NOT be 2020 favorites.

Still, I hope The Memory Police gets better for me. It is a highly imaginative story but ho-hum....

[Sinisa]

I'm about to start reading Chapter 19 and have same impressions like oshizu. It is an OK dystopian novel i just had much higher expectations.

(view spoiler)[ It reminds me a lot of Fahrenheit 451 but instead of books we have memory. I am missing the plot set up, some sort of prelude.
This is like we start from the middle, we have an island and all world built in first few pages and read towards solution. (hide spoiler)]

I also gave The Housekeeper and the Professor 5 stars but didn't expect this to be like that sweet and wonderful story. Was more hopping to other Ogawas stories (The Diving Pool: Three Novellas or L'anulare) where we start a novel normally and then we get hit with a tiny bit of strange and that strange builds up like a snowball as you read. This is unfortunately different from those

[oshizu]

I'm done. I'll put my remarks under spoilers to avoid influencing the reading experiences of SarahKat and Trisha.
(btw, Sinisa, do you know how to use spoiler tags?)

(view spoiler)[I've been hesitant to rate the book as two people whose reading tastes I respect a lot gave it 5 stars.
But, after all, my ratings only reflect my subjective reading experience and I never want them to be seen as my attempt at any absolute evaluation of any books I read.

Subjectively, I didn't enjoy The Memory Police. Perhaps I'm just less enthused by despair-filled, anxiety-inducing dystopian narratives these days
Surely, I missed the deeper meanings of this book, but I'm unwilling to keep pondering it. I'm ready to move on.
3.5 stars rounded down. (hide spoiler)]

[Sinisa]

oshizu wrote: "I'm done. I'll put my remarks under spoilers to avoid influencing the reading experiences of SarahKat and Trisha.
(btw, Sinisa, do you know how to use spoiler tags?)

I've been hesitant to rate the..."

Yes i do but...
(view spoiler)[ I wrote that before chapter 19, was more of a general impression for me at that time. Half way trough Ch 19 things changed.

I have finished and my impressions are the same as before, nothing happend to change it. It is an OK novel , well written and it was an easy read but for some reason this has not pulled me in like her other works. I just find my self not caring for plot or characters. I have read everything I found available from Ogawa and will keep my eyes for next one but if i have to rank her works this is bottom place
(hide spoiler)]

[Trisha]

Just finished chapter 11. The premise of the book is very interesting, although with a feeling of eeriness. (view spoiler)[ The idea of getting your memories wiped out is frightening. I am wondering how powerful the people behind this wipeout (is it the Memory Police or there is a higher body of authority over the Memory Police) are and to what limit could they go. Can they make the idea of a whole gender vanish? Say the people living on the imaginary island wake up on a morning and know nothing of women. Will they discard all their women? Leave them to perish. Or worse, kill them. And with women, the idea of reproduction also gets forgotten. There won’t be any more births, no new generations and the whole island will become a memory that could be wiped out too. Phew! I know I’ve deviated off the main story, but this plot can be written off in so many different ways - each more intense than the other. Love how imaginative it is!

Coming back to the original story, I wonder how long can the protagonist keep R safe from the Memory Police. And how long can R behave normally in a crazy situation like his? The protagonist’s writings seem to be very much part of the main plot; is she going to write off what’s happening in her surroundings - literally or metaphorically. I’m guessing her mother’s last sculptures could also bear some meaning. (hide spoiler)]

I like how the book is part fantasy, part science fiction. Although both these elements are secondary and dystopia takes the main frame.

[Trisha]

Now that I’m a little over 50% in, the plot seems to have become stationary. (view spoiler)[ Although dystopian, it lacks the Orwellian charm it boasted of in its blurb. The Memory Police does remind me of the Thought Police (as intended I guess), but they are not as intense and brutal as the TP in the Orwellian classic. It was next to impossible for anyone to rebel or even think of starting a rebellion in 1984 owing to the extensive network of informants employed by the Brotherhood, and not to forget the nasty telescreens and microphones that they used for mass surveillance. (hide spoiler)]

@oshizu - Thanks for putting down that information on the Japanese manuscript paper.

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

Lack of names: Why is that? I read a couple of Korean books a few years ago and if I remember correctly, the characters went unnamed in those as well. Why is this so common of an occurrence in Japanese/Oriental literature? I want there to be a meaning behind this choice!

Yes oshizu thank you for sharing the Japanese manuscript paper. Regarding your annoyance: (view spoiler)[Perhaps the book she's writing is set in an Anglo country? I keep thinking of Big Ben as the clock tower she's in but of course there are other clock towers... (hide spoiler)]

I just finished chapter 19. (view spoiler)[Very predictable that books would be something to disappear. I have it on my mind, like Trisha, that some demographic of people will disappear next. Possibly the "old" and then the old man will be in danger. Not sure.

The story is very meandering though. I feel like not much has or is happening and the writing itself is good, but not good enough to carry the entire book with lack of plot. Too much is going unexplained and there's not really an end-goal in sight. I like magical realism books but this isn't making the most out of its genre. (hide spoiler)]

Question about the mechanism of the disappearances: (view spoiler)[So... how? I mean... obviously these things stay in people's memory long enough for them to gather anything pertaining to it and destroy it. It loses its meaning and they get rid of it all. Then what? Does it take a certain amount of time to completely forget the thing ever existed? I mean, with the music box the main character and old man had no clue what it even was. But they are still talking about the disappearance of other recent things like calendars and roses. Are some people more susceptible to remember things for longer? Like how our MC recalled "bird" in chapter 19? I don't like completely unexplained things! (hide spoiler)]

[oshizu]

About "lack of names":
Especially in pre-modern Japanese literature (say, pre 1800s or so), even subject nouns were rarely used beause the Japanese language at the time indicated (through suffixes to verbs, adjectives, noun choice) the relative social status, gender, and relationship.
For example, even today, depending on the relationship between you and me (you are, for example, my boss at work), I would use a different word to refer to your mother, my mother, and the mother of a coworker who is of lower rank in the corporate ladder).
I've read somewhere that Murakami Haruki uses more subject nouns than usual to simplify the translation process.
There's also a long-standing custom of referring to people by their social titles/ranks (Mr. President, Mme. Chairman, Dept Head, Section Manager, teacher, etc.) You would only use given names with close friends. There are folks in Japan who I've known for decades who I've never called by their first name.

In modern novels, I wonder if the absence of names or use of initials is more of a narrative device. No names allows the read to slip more easily between the pages of a book? In Memory Police, referring to the editor as R implies secrecy. Maybe the author simply decided that the characters' names don't matter.

Haha, that was a long-winded explanation about names and I probably didn't even answer your question.

The term "Oriental" isn't used anymore. You mean "Asian." :D

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

oshizu wrote: "About "lack of names":
Especially in pre-modern Japanese literature (say, pre 1800s or so), even subject nouns were rarely used beause the Japanese language at the time indicated (through suffixes ..."

That's so interesting thank you oshizu! I wondered about the narrative device. Like, if you're reading a book and a character named "Jason" pops up and you think, oh I dated a Jason and he was a complete jerk, maybe you have sort of preconceived notion of that character. Without naming anyone they really are completely a blank slate. "What's in a name..."

I had no idea oriental wasn't a thing anymore. For some reason I thought the "orient" was more... Korea/China/Japan area while "Asian" encompassed the entire continent. This is what happens when you live in one of the most landlocked states in the USA and can't afford to travel. Thank you for correcting me.

I need to read more Asian lit. The Quarter 3 Women of the World challenge has me realizing I have a lot of Western women on my TBR but few in Asia and hardly anything in Africa. (If you are ever bored oshizu I wouldn't say no to a lovely list of your favorite books by Asian authors appearing in my inbox)

[oshizu]

SarahKat wrote: "(If you are ever bored oshizu I wouldn't say no to a lovely list of your favorite books by Asian authors appearing in my inbox)"

Will do.
For Wildlife Refuge, though, I bet you'll love The Travelling Cat Chronicles.

I would never have know you haven't read much Asian lit. Your comments during our Memoirs of a Polar Bear bdddy read were so thoughtful and insightful.

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

oshizu wrote: "SarahKat wrote: "(If you are ever bored oshizu I wouldn't say no to a lovely list of your favorite books by Asian authors appearing in my inbox)"

Will do.
For Wildlife Refuge, though, I bet you'll..."

I read that earlier this year and you are right; I loved it!

[Trisha]

Just finished! My mind is flooding with so many unanswered questions that I just cannot think straight. (view spoiler)[ The disappearance of body parts was predictable, but what I can’t understand is the actuality of the whole situation. For all the previous disappearances, I assumed that the things remained as is, but the memory of those things or the significance of it was wiped out from the minds of the people. As a result, they were unable to feel any attachment towards the vanished things and also forgot the usage of those. Basically, the disappearances were merely psychological in nature, not physical. If that’s the case, when the entire body vanished, how did the protagonist reached the hidden room without lifting the trap door? Where did her body go? I know that I shouldn’t be looking at these disappearances from a scientific perspective, but my logic fails me completely here. Was my initial assumption wrong - were the objects literally disappearing every time. But no, that can’t be - people were burning those. So what happened to the bodies once they were made to disappear completely? Shouldn’t the bodies have just decayed where they were rested? There is no denying that the overall story is about the loss of one’s own existence, more like hollowing out of one’s soul due to gradual degradation of memories and consciousness in a totalitarian world.

Anyway, ignoring the above stated black-hole of a question that’s troubling me, I do like the ending. It ties up with the novel our protagonist was writing - sort of! Although the protagonist of the novel loses her voice and eventually gets absorbed in her surroundings, our true protagonist loses the physical form first and starts to degrade with only her voice remaining until the end. The concept of embedded narrative is both fascinating and haunting - haunting because reading the climax of the novel (written by the protagonist) before the actual ending of the main story hinted at a sad finale.

We never get to know who was behind the disappearances; the MP just seemed to be reinforcing the vanishing. Also, there isn’t much plot involving them and I somehow don’t see the justification of the title of the book. Something related to the fading of memories, or self would have made more sense.

Lastly, I really liked the writing. It was weightless yet vivid, especially towards the end. Had the plot been remarkable, I would have enjoyed this book a lot more. Almost 50% of the book (starting from 40% to 90%) was quite stagnant with nothing happening and at places, the vividness was hurtful. I didn’t see any significance of the dog’s infection, or the woman vendor’s call for help, or the haircut R gets, and so many other things. It just left me wanting for some action. But then, most other places, the vividness is enthralling - the description of the disappearance of the left leg made me twitch my leg, for a moment I felt the lifelessness of my body parts and the beauty of her writing! (hide spoiler)]

I can’t decide the rating yet, will probably wait until evening to let this grow on me a little more before I decide to rate it.

[Trisha]

SarahKat wrote: "Lack of names: Why is that? I read a couple of Korean books a few years ago and if I remember correctly, the characters went unnamed in those as well. Why is this so common of an occurrence in Japa..."

I wish I could answer your question but the mechanics are left unexplained. (view spoiler)[The old man and the protagonist easily forget about the photographs and feel awkward when R talks of those, but they remember the ferry until the end. Maybe talking of it regularly or seeing it everyday prevented its complete erasure. The objects that could be easily disposed of will be the ones to be forgotten the earliest. And hence, the time taken to forget will vary from person to person. Perhaps the people who lived inland and didn’t get to see the ferry, would’ve forgotten about the ferry completely. (hide spoiler)]

Also, read this spoiler only once you’ve finished the book:(view spoiler)[ Since the protagonist is finally able to complete her novel, we can only conclude that the memories can be reinstated. (hide spoiler)]

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

I just finished! (thoughts in spoiler, even though I'm the last to finish)... (view spoiler)[I have never read Yoko Ogawa before, but it's good to know this is one of her least enjoyable books according to Sinisa and oshizu. I would likely read her again. I liked the atmosphere of this book and the idea of the disappearances of memory. Ogawa is also a beautiful writer. Trisha described it well "weightless yet vivid."

Like oshizu, I don't have the energy to ponder upon the deeper meaning of this book and a vast majority of it just felt pointless. SO many unanswered questions. Like, why aren't the Memory Police having issues with disappearing limbs? Would that then mean that they actually are still out and about tracking down anyone who has managed to stay hidden with memories for this long like R? Why are things disappearing in the first place?

I guess R and the protagonist's relationship is interesting; him having all of his memories and her slowly becoming less human. Because memories make you who you are? I don't know. I will perhaps think on this more and try to have deeper thoughts haha (hide spoiler)]

Trisha, in response to your Message 24 comments, (view spoiler)[The mechanism seems really random. Especially after I read the next few chapters after my original comment. It seemed the protagonist almost immediately forgot about her novel and didn't even know she could type like the very next day? I mean, I assume if she was a novelist she would type out her books right?

I disagree that the memories can be reinstated. I believe her finishing the novel was an endeavor to reach her subconscious ability to write so she could leave R with her finished manuscript. She seems to have no feelings towards her writing and has no idea if this is what R wants. Like she just finally tapped into a part of herself to write some words, but still didn't actually remember how to do it. (hide spoiler)]

And your message 23 comments: (view spoiler)[I assumed she entered the hidden room when she felt the next disappearance coming on so she could be in there with R when it happened. She mentioned she could feel her skin hardening beforehand. Her body was still in the hidden room when R left, so yeah I guess they just stay where they are until they decay. I'm wondering how quickly the rest of the body disappeared? Did she go weeks without food or drink? Did the need for sustenance disappear? (hide spoiler)]

[oshizu]

There was mention about the book title The Memory Police.
That is the creation of the translator, Stephen Snyder.
The original (Japanese) title is Hisoyaka na kesshō (密やかな結晶), which would be literally translated as "The Secret Crystallization." Hisoyaka can also be translated as quiet, surreptitious.
Definitely not as catchy an English title as The Memory Police...

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

oshizu wrote: "There was mention about the book title The Memory Police.
That is the creation of the translator, Stephen Snyder.
The original (Japanese) title is Hisoyaka na kesshō (密やかな結晶), which would be litera..."

Sounds like he was trying really hard to make this sound like 1984 with the Though Police and thought maybe that would appeal to a Western audience? But I agree that the Memory Police had very little to do with the actual story. R's place in the story wasn't very prominent either really. (view spoiler)[He was hiding because of some research he had done I think... and he obviously still had memories. But he didn't continue with his research and a ton of other people were living out in the world just pretending their memories were gone so I'm not sure why he absolutely had to hide at that point. (hide spoiler)]

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

Here's my "full" review https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...