House of Leaves by Mark Z. Danielewski, Buddy Read Thread

[Linda]

Intro - Chapter IV

"The only things of interest I'm finding are that a Google search turned up Dasein as also meaning "presence" or "existence", which to me feels very different from what he's saying. When I read his comments, I'm getting a feeling of emptiness, a lack of presence if anything.

When I was reading this part I happened to be at work on my lunch break and didn't have access to my computer immediately, but I asked my German coworker what "Dasein" meant and he had to really think about it before he answered that there's no really good English equivalent, but that the closest he could describe was "living in the now or the present" (and he tried to describe it more but I just got confused). So maybe Johnny's at a point where he is still physically alive, but not really "here" in this world or time?

Ami - the musical lyrics and also the women/cat similarities are great catches! I am not the person to notice many lyrical references, so I'm glad someone here is.

[Ami]

Paula wrote: "Chapter IV

Chapter IV is where we read about the House starting to reshape itself on the inside, with no change to the facade. There's a new space, resembling a walk-in closet. Then a 1/4" grows t..."

Sarah wrote: "Paula said: "And one step further. Perhaps the House isn't really a house. Perhaps it is really one of those dark beings? Or maybe it is a structure that gives some kind of form to those beings?"

..."

Muss es sein
Okay, I read this translated as "it must be," alluding to fate, Milan Kundera and Nietzsche. We begin first by reading This is not for you followed by the introduction. Then we read Muss es sein before Part I of the the "Navidson Records." This is not for you...It must be...It's Navidson's fate to endure the house...As it is Zampano's to write the book and endure the "The Navidson Record"...As it is Johnny Truant's to rewrite the book ...As it's my fate to continue on this cycle in proceeding to read "House of Leaves," which is not for me...But, it must be...RIght?

"Muss es sein ...Es muss sein" is discussed in great depth in one my favorite books of all time, The Unbearable Lightness of Being, by Milan Kundera. This novel is based on Nietzsche's philosophy of love, fate and eternal recurrence. The universe flows in a circular fashion, ...to think that everything recurs as we once experienced it, and that the recurrence itself recurs 'ad infinitum' (3). Kundera argues And therein lies the whole of man's plight. Human time does not turn in a circle; it runs ahead in a straight line. That is why man cannot be happy: happiness is the longing for repetition

This statement "muss es sein...es muss sein" is taken from a concerto written by Beethoven, a favorite piece of one of the character's in a fated entanglement with her lover. It's honestly a beautiful book...Maybe a buddy read down the road, I think.

This was beautiful to me: Which is how we know they are brothers, because like Tom, Navidson's eyes share the same water It's not that they both have water in their eyes but that they share the same water.

Yes, me too.

And Ami, you probably jumped for joy when he says I know THC doesn't create any lasting physical dependencies. That was hilarious since IJ had so many addicts.

HaHa! Can't get too excited! God forbid, Dr. Drew Pinsky takes a gander at this thread...For his sake and others, I'll give him the less than 10% of smokers "do" become addicted statistic.

Amber says that she had asked Zampano if he had any children. "He said he didn't have any children any more.". What a peculiar statement!
I think it's a reference to all those cats...There's something about those cats. I can't put my finger on it, but there is.

He called it his Precious! Like Golem called the Ring of Power in LoTR. Because of LoTR, I think of a "Precious" as being the focus of an all-consuming obsession.

What a great correlation and so true.

[Ami]

Linda wrote: "Intro - Chapter IV

"The only things of interest I'm finding are that a Google search turned up Dasein as also meaning "presence" or "existence", which to me feels very different from what he's say..."

Interesting how a native speaker is slightly stumped as to how to translate...I'm always interested in what's lost in translation. English is not my mother tongue either, so I understand this all too well-Some words just don't make the cut, they lose their impact. That's why I also think there's that gray area with the statement "Muss es sein," but I could have very well read too much into it.

[Nicola]

Introduction to Chapter IV

I'm sorry I haven't posted before now; I've got sooo much other reading and posting I should be doing and I'm on holiday with a lot of other calls on my time. Any spare time I've dedicated to reading rather than writing down my thoughts.

Introduction

So far my favourite bit - it seems a good lead in and it was before the whole 'dark and mysterious' bit started getting a bit repetitive and old for me.

Chapters I to III

These haven't excited me much. So far they seem rather simplistic and heavy handed in their approach to creating 'atmosphere'

Chapter IV

This feels better. I'm liking that we are getting a bit more background and the practical steps taken to measure the house felt realistic to me.

The house so far seems like some sort of conduit to another dimension. The changes in measurements are caused by the fact that it isn't entirely in 'this' world and so measuring is a trifle futile. 'Things' lurk in this other place. Nicely creepy, or it could be, at the moment I'm not very engaged.

[Nicola]

Chapters I - IV

One further comment, not very exciting, is how the various narrators create a sense of distance as well. You have Zampano and Traunt and then another editor and finally you as a reader. It's like an onion with multiple layers or perhaps a game of Chinese Whispers and we all know how garbled things become in Chinese Whispers...

What makes it even more peculiar is that Zampano was blind but was apparently still writing? Or 'scribbling'? Blind people can write but how legible would their work be if someone wasn't re-writing it as they did it?

[Sarah]

Linda, I was flipping through the index after your comment about the strange words. The first one I saw was 'see'. It totally gave me chills.

[Sarah]

What does everyone make of the rhythm of the words? Have you guys seen Michael Clayton? Tom Wilkinson plays a man who is bipolar and has gone off of his meds. He's extremely manic and there are parts where he's reading aloud and there is a similar quality to the way this is written. It's kind of fun being able to place the words into that template.

[Ami]

Sarah wrote: "What does everyone make of the rhythm of the words? Have you guys seen Michael Clayton? Tom Wilkinson plays a man who is bipolar and has gone off of his meds. He's extremely manic and there are ..."

He's definitely experiencing fits of mania, perhaps attributed to the effect of Zampano's book; but I'm thinking there may be something else at play here too. I'll delve further into this on Thursday when we begin with Ch V.

[Nicola]

Sarah wrote: "What does everyone make of the rhythm of the words? Have you guys seen Michael Clayton? Tom Wilkinson plays a man who is bipolar and has gone off of his meds. He's extremely manic and there are ..."

What chapter is this referring to? I think I may be behind in your reading as I've only read the first 4 plus the introduction. Or is this something I've missed?

[Sarah]

I'm just referring to the way it feels and sounds. It reminds me of that. I've also only read the intro and 1-4.

[Linda]

Chapter IV

I started reading Chapter V last night, only to be reminded of something I meant to post. And either I missed it in her post before or Ami added it later to post #49.

Anyway, I meant to point out the spelling "error" of Johnny's changing "morning" to "mourning". Was that a subconscious error on his part? I wasn't sure what to think of this, but wanted to point it out then saw that Ami beat me to it. :)

Ami also wrote:

Truant ... further stating written errors, are often the only markers left by a solitary life: 'to sacrifice them is to lose the angles of personality,' the riddle of the soul. 'In this case a very old soul. A very old riddle'. This passage struck a real chord with me.

I wonder if Johnny's own spelling error is indicative of his now solitary life he may be leading as a consequence of getting involved with the Navidson Record (or some other result of getting involved)?

With regards to FN 45, no I did not flip forward to Chapter 9 to read it. I figured that it was in Chapter 9 for a purpose and I would read it when I got to that chapter (does this sound familiar??!! lol.) Maybe tonight, though, I will go ahead and read the rest of the FN in Chapter 9. :)

So, as I mentioned I started reading chapter 5 last night and like Ami mentioned in another post, this reading IS dense! I only got through 5 pages last night. But I had to grab my copy of Don Quixote to look up a footnote and ended up reading a chapter of that too! (I saw the Dulcinea discussion in the footnotes thread. I happened to have just read DQ last year, so it's nice to be able to pick up on some of the references!)

[Linda]

Ami wrote: ""Muss es sein ...Es muss sein" is discussed in great depth in one my favorite books of all time, The Unbearable Lightness of Being, by Milan Kundera. .. The universe flows in a circular fashion, ...to think that everything recurs as we once experienced it, and that the recurrence itself recurs 'ad infinitum' (3). Kundera argues And therein lies the whole of man's plight. Human time does not turn in a circle; it runs ahead in a straight line. That is why man cannot be happy: happiness is the longing for repetition "

Thanks for summarizing this, Ami. I did see this book referenced when I Googled this phrase, but it's been ~20 years since I read it so I remember nothing. I would be up for a reread of it someday.

[Linda]

Sarah wrote: "Linda, I was flipping through the index after your comment about the strange words. The first one I saw was 'see'. It totally gave me chills."

I was flipping through the index last night and you know what gave me chills? Seeing the word "Other", but more so because it is capitalized, like it is a proper noun, a being of some sort. It reminded me of the movie "The Others".

[Ami]

Linda wrote: "Chapter IV

I started reading Chapter V last night, only to be reminded of something I meant to post. And either I missed it in her post before or Ami added it later to post #49.

Anyway, I meant ..."

Chapter IV...
With regards to FN 45, no I did not flip forward to Chapter 9 to read it. I figured that it was in Chapter 9 for a purpose and I would read it when I got to that chapter (does this sound familiar??!! lol.) Maybe tonight, though, I will go ahead and read the rest of the FN in Chapter 9. :)

I "knew" it, Linda!!! Agh!!! While I was reading these chapters (IV, V & VII) and their FNs, I had you in mind, thinking whether or not, you would be reading them as they are brought to our attention, or waiting until they come up organically?

Just an FYI, and I wasn't going to say anything because I wanted to see how everybody approached their reading, but Chapter 5 is not a mere 30 pages...Try 90, due to the 60 pages of the Appendix you end up reading, if you choose to do so? And Chapter 7 includes Chapter 13!!! I think in the case for this "House of Leaves," there's a deeper meaning as to why the FNs are asked to be read in the fashion they are denoted, Linda- It's a real tailspinning process, which I've found to be exhilarating in spite of the dense material.

I'm going to wait and post for V later, if you're going to be reading FN 123* because I would really like to discuss it with you and not ruin the flow of our discussion.


I wonder if Johnny's own spelling error is indicative of his now solitary life he may be leading as a consequence of getting involved with the Navidson Record (or some other result of getting involved)?

What a great point, Linda. As of IV, I would completely agree with you, but since you've read the beginning of V, there's something to be said about two people telling the same story and how the conveyed messages can be different due to the nuances of each writer brings to light.

*Edit 2.12
I meant FN 45, which leads you through a slew of other FN's. You'll catch a glimpse of 123 while reading, it's not included via FN 45...That's all.

[Linda]

Ami wrote: "I'm going to wait and post for V later, if you're going to read FN 123 in CH 9 because I really want to discuss it and not mess up the order of the thread. "

OK, I will definitely read it tonight then. And thanks for the heads up regarding the length of the reading. I will also alter my reading habits for this book and read ahead in the pages if we are referred to them. Just for you, Ami. :)

[Sarah]

I'm with you Linda. I have an extreme dislike of footnotes but now I have to read them.

[Ami]

Linda wrote: "Ami wrote: "I'm going to wait and post for V later, if you're going to read FN 123 in CH 9 because I really want to discuss it and not mess up the order of the thread. "

OK, I will definitely read..."

LoL. Try it for Chapters 4 & 5 and see what you think...:P If not, spoiler tags are always there for us to use! No worries. :)

[Ami]

I will be providing a new thread for Chapters V-VIII

We're already at 60+ responses discussing the Intro-IV, and I have a feeling we'll have plenty more to add after the FN in Chapter 9 is read.

We've all done so well working within the constraints of one thread so far...Thanks!

The new thread will help better maintain the organization of our discussions, I think...



See you there soon! :)

[Sarah]

You guys feel free to break out your voodoo dolls, but I'm not going to continue with this book. I hate it. I decided a couple of days ago and I've had two completely lovely stress-free days of reading since. I just didn't have the guts to get on here and tell you guys.

Voodoo dolls it is...

[Linda]

Sarah wrote: "You guys feel free to break out your voodoo dolls, but I'm not going to continue with this book. I hate it. I decided a couple of days ago and I've had two completely lovely stress-free days of r..."

No worries at all, Sarah! I can see how this book is not for everyone. Frankly, there are parts of this book that I absolutely do not like at all and I feel like I'm slogging through, and then there are parts where I really get sucked into the story. I'm going to have a terrible time trying to rate this one. I hope I have a clearer overall impression of the book once I'm finished.

[Ami]

Oh damn shame, Sorensen.. I will miss your input, most definitely. I won't give you grief over quitting ;P, I too second yours and Linda's sentiments 100%. It's going to be a hard to rate.

Linda Dearest, I'm going to see it through to the end... Despite my own qualms, I'd like to finish it. So, how about we do two sections* again for another 3 week increment beginning next week and we post whenever we get a chance within that time-it's more visceral reading?

* I think this will enable us to wrap it up, actually.

[Linda]

I will also be finishing it. I very rarely not finish a book, even if I don't enjoy it, I just try to read it a bit quicker in that case.

Two sections starting next week sounds good. So that would be another 8 chapters? I'm all for wrapping up this book soon.

[Sarah]

I don't think anyone has ever called me Sorensen before...

[Ami]

Sarah wrote: "I don't think anyone has ever called me Sorensen before..."

A teammate is down for the count...I couldn't help it. LoL!

[Sarah]

Lol!

[Linda]

Now that's pretty funny. :)

[Alana]

Sarah wrote: "A strange one - In Doctor Who the color blue is very significant because it's the color of the TARDIS, and the TARDIS is... bigger on the inside. That's how it's always described. I'll be curious t..."

Good observation, I hadn't thought about that! I was wondering about the color choice as well.

Every single time the word "house" is listed, it's ALWAYS in blue, right down to the copyright pages, Random "House," etc. Interesting choice.

In another group one of our readers is reading via e-reader and it doesn't show all of the color changes, etc. I imagine the book doesn't have the same effect that way.

[Alana]

I didn't realize you all had done this as a Buddy Read earlier this year... I love the comments and so many of them mirror thoughts I've been having while reading this! This is such a strange book and really needs dissected (although it does plenty of its own dissection, for sure!) with other people.

[Linda]

Alana wrote: "I love the comments and so many of them mirror thoughts I've been having while reading this!"

I'm happy the comments are helping another reader through this! This book definitely needs to be dissected.

[Ami]

Alana wrote: "I didn't realize you all had done this as a Buddy Read earlier this year... I love the comments and so many of them mirror thoughts I've been having while reading this! This is such a strange book ..."

I second Linda's commentary. Are you still reading along? I would love to read more of your thoughts as you continue to progress, I wouldn't let me/us having finished the book deter you from still participating...I'll keep an eye out for your posts. Enjoy!

[Alana]

I'm still working through it, although I'm reading it straight through and not jumping into all of the Apendices in the back (the other group I'm reading in kept those for last, and it's confusing going back and forth) so I'm probably not getting the full value out of all of your commentary, but I am finding it very helpful! It's a very deep (no pun intended) novel and I feel like it's one I'd have to read again in a few years to really get the most out of it.