Irrealismo Reception - the place for comments and enquiries

[Nathanimal]

Hahah. Considering the theme of this group, that doesn't seem like a random question at all!

[Nathanimal]

Paul has defined irrealism very nicely in other places on this site. Perhaps he will again here or perhaps he'll point us to those other places. I agree with everything he has said.

I would still like to put together my own thoughts on this. Let me mull.

Do you have a working definition of irrealism, Thomas?

[Bill]

Nathanimal wrote: "Any other warrens? What's irreal about warrens?"

Whenever I see "warren" these days, I think about The Warren. That Brian, sigh.

[Bill]

Nathanimal wrote: "I might make a case for the White Rabbit's home in Alice in Wonderland, though, if we wanted to go down that rabbit hole."

Will the whole fluffle fit?

[Nathanimal]

Bill wrote: "Will the whole fluffle fit?"

I sure hope so. Fluffles are fluffiest when crammed all together.

[Nathanimal]

Bill wrote: "Whenever I see "warren" these days, I think about The Warren. That Brian, sigh."

Whoa! How have I completely missed this book? A Brian Evenson Tor book? That sounds pretty amazing.

[Paul]

Thomas wrote: "A random question, but how would you guys define irrealist?"

See message number 12 on the Irrealismo Reception thread, Thomas.

[Paul]

Nathanimal wrote: "Paul wrote: "I don't think Watership Down is a contender for inclusion on The List."

Ha! Probably not. I might make a case for the White Rabbit's home in Alice in Wonderland, though, if we wanted ..."

Ha! Can't disagree with that...

[Blaine]

Klowey wrote: "I am thrilled to have you in the group Blaine!"

I’ve been enjoying the hotel amenities and irrealist fiction lists, so far…thank you, again, for the invite, Klowey!

[Blaine]

Nathanimal wrote: "Blaine, from one rabbit to another hello! There is something irreal about a warren, no?"

Lol...would have to agree there, fellow rabbit! I was trying to think of other tunnel/warren/network examples but "The Garden of Forking Paths" and "The Burrow" were the first two that popped into my head. Will have to ponder that one further!

[Blaine]

Paul wrote: "I don't think Watership Down is a contender for inclusion on The List."

Hah...no worries! I'm sure I can come up with a few less fluffle-centric options. Thanks for the words of welcome!

[Thoma]

Think I might create an irrealist book list for personal reference. What are some essentials I should include?

[Klowey]

Blaine wrote: "Nathanimal wrote: "Blaine, from one rabbit to another hello! There is something irreal about a warren, no?"

Lol...would have to agree there, fellow rabbit! I was trying to think of other tunnel/wa..."

Not familiar with "The Burrow", but "The Garden of Forking Paths" is in the batch, afaik.

[Klowey]

Blaine wrote: ""The Garden of Forking Paths" and "The Burrow" were the first two that popped into my head. "

Are you referring to The Burrow, the unfinished short story by Kafka?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bur...

[Nathanimal]

Thomas wrote: "Think I might create an irrealist book list for personal reference. What are some essentials I should include?"

Kafka - The Trial
Borges - Ficciones
Sebald - (I haven't read much, but there seems to be consensus around Rings of Saturn)
Perec - (I've only read about Perec, but Life A User's Manual is the one everyone talks about. I hope to read it soon.)
Kazuo Ishiguro - The Unconsoled
Italo Calvino - Invisible Cities
Marie N'Diaye - My Heart Hemmed In (I swear this will be canon--it just hasn't been around long enough yet)

And because there are just too many men on this list and it makes me uncomfortable . . .

Magdelena Tulli - Flaw (or In Red)

[Nathanimal]

Klowey wrote: "Are you referring to The Burrow, the unfinished short story by Kafka?

That's it. I didn't know it was unfinished, but a good warren never is.

[Thoma]

I’ve only read his short stories so far, but some of Nabokov’s perhaps could be considered irrealist, such as Pale Fire or Invitation to a Beheading. To be honest I’m the least well read here by a long way.

[Nathanimal]

Thomas wrote: "I’ve only read his short stories so far, but some of Nabokov’s perhaps could be considered irrealist, such as Pale Fire or Invitation to a Beheading. To be honest I’m the least well read here by a ..."

Oh sure. I would consider Invitation to a Beheading very irreal.

It's a very Kafka story, but Nabokov insists he'd never read Kafka before he wrote it, citing Gogol as his influence. Likely story.

Dostoevsky's The Double is great, too, and a similar vibe.

[Nathanimal]

Thomas wrote: "To be honest I’m the least well read here by a long way."

But, if that's true, think of all the awesome books you have yet to discover?

[Thoma]

Haha you’re very right. I’d say I’ve found the fiction that most interest me at this point, many of which could be considered irrealist. It’s just knowing which ones to go for and the fear I won’t be able to read as many as I wish

[Ed]

I'm not really sure what "Irreal fiction" means. But if you like Borges, Kafka, and Calvino, the list in my review of this book might interest you:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[Klowey]

Nathanimal wrote: "Klowey wrote: "Are you referring to The Burrow, the unfinished short story by Kafka?

That's it. I didn't know it was unfinished, but a good warren never is."

I didn't know Kafka finished books. :-)

[Klowey]

Nathanimal wrote: "Thomas wrote: "I’ve only read his short stories so far, but some of Nabokov’s perhaps could be considered irrealist, such as Pale Fire or Invitation to a Beheading. To be honest I’m the least well ..."

Pale Fire is on my to-read list.

Has anyone read "Dead Souls" by Dostoevsky and liked it?

[Klowey]

Nathanimal wrote: "Thomas wrote: "Think I might create an irrealist book list for personal reference. What are some essentials I should include?"

Kafka - The Trial
Borges - Ficciones
Sebald - (I haven't read much, b..."

I would love to have a "canon". Maybe Paul could review suggestions and put one together, since it's "his" group, so to speak. This is an enjoyable conversation thread.

[Nathanimal]

Klowey wrote: "I didn't know Kafka finished books. :-)"

Ha! That's so frustratingly true.

[Paul]

Nathanimal wrote: "Thomas wrote: "Think I might create an irrealist book list for personal reference. What are some essentials I should include?"

Kafka - The Trial
Borges - Ficciones
Sebald - (I haven't read much, b..."

If you look back through the threads, Thomas, you'll see that people have mentioned plenty of writers and works.

[Paul]

Ed wrote: "I'm not really sure what "Irreal fiction" means. But if you like Borges, Kafka, and Calvino, the list in my review of this book might interest you:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show..."

Trawl through our threads, Ed, and you'll have a better idea.

[Paul]

Nathanimal wrote: "I would love to have a "canon". Maybe Paul could review suggestions and put one together, since it's "his" group, so to speak. This is an enjoyable conversation thread."

Nice idea, Nath. Let's do that!

[Thoma]

What are you guys reading currently? Unless the local book club I occasionally participate in pick something that interests me, I’m thinking of Coin Locker Babies by Ryu Murakami (not in any way related to Haruki). By the sound of the plot synopsis it sounds pretty irrealist

[Klowey]

I was inspired by a seminar taught at UC Berkeley a few years ago. I wasn't able to take the class so I'm reading the books on my own.

It was called "From Solitary Strolls to Silly Walks: Walking and Modernity in France and Elsewhere"

Reading list included:
Robert Walser – The Walk
Jean-Jacques Rousseau – Reveries of a Solitary Walker
Andre Breton – Nadja
Georges Perec – An Attempt at Exhausting a Place in Paris
Raymond Queneau – Odile

to which I added:
Louis Aragon - Paris Peasant
Italo Calvino - Invisible Cities
W.G. Sebald - Rings of Saturn
W.G. Sebald - A Place in the Country (in which he mentions Rousseau and Walser as influences)

I'm just starting the list and am currently reading Walser's "The Walk and Selected Stories." I've read "Nadja" and "Paris Peasant" but am looking forward to a reread.

[Thoma]

That’s a great list. I haven’t read Nadja, like I haven’t read most books to be honest, but it looks really interesting, kinda similar to Sebald’s style with the frequent use of pictures and stimulating digressions. Heard Breton became quite strongly disliked by others in the surrealist and French literary circles, and writers such as Perec and Bataille (I think) added their names to some kind of possession to get him to go away haha

[Klowey]

You are correct about Breton. I studied Surrealism in grad school and he managed to alienate quite a few Surrealists.

I also forgot to mention "Rings of Saturn" and "Invisible Cities" that are on the list, so I'll edit it now.

[Ed]

Klowey wrote: "... 'Walking and Modernity in France and Elsewhere'..."

Interesting idea. This book immediately sprang to my mind: The Flaneur: A Stroll through the Paradoxes of Paris by Edmund White. Irrealist or not, it fits that theme.

[Paul]

I'm reading Nadja at the moment, Klowey (very slowly though as I'm reading loads of academic stuff too).

[Thoma]

I might join you guys with reading Nadja then

[Nathanimal]

Thomas wrote: "What are you guys reading currently? Unless the local book club I occasionally participate in pick something that interests me, I’m thinking of Coin Locker Babies by Ryu Murakami (not in any way re..."

Way too much at the same time, none of it explicitly irreal. I am enjoying a recent issue from the Ottawa surrealist group.

Recently over in the Literary Horror group we read Rabbit Island, which I think would be of interest to irrealistas everywhere.

[Nathanimal]

Klowey wrote: "I was inspired by a seminar taught at UC Berkeley a few years ago. I wasn't able to take the class so I'm reading the books on my own.

It was called "From Solitary Strolls to Silly Walks: Walking ..."

Love Walser! Love walking!

Additions to that list might include Thomas Bernhard (demonic walker and talker) and maybe Sergio Chejfec's My Two Worlds.

Unrelated to irrealism, but walking seems a large part of Emily Bronte's mystique. I imagine she had the kind of character that could find fulfillment in walking a moor the way others do in buying a house or teaching children.

Breton was a jerk. But think of everything that came from him! Not only surrealism, but all the fantastic reactions of those alienated surrealists, like Pataphysics and the OULIPO.

I'm down for a buddy read of Paris Peasant soon, if anyone is thinking of reading or re-reading it.

[Jimmy]

Klowey wrote: "I was inspired by a seminar taught at UC Berkeley a few years ago. I wasn't able to take the class so I'm reading the books on my own.

It was called "From Solitary Strolls to Silly Walks: Walking ..."

Oooh sounds like a cool class... I'm also really interested in books about walking or have walking as a central theme. I created a GR bookshelf of walking books a while ago, if you're interested it's here: https://www.goodreads.com/review/list...

[Nathanimal]

Awesome list, Jimmy!

[Klowey]

Nathanimal wrote: "I'm down for a buddy read of Paris Peasant soon, if anyone is thinking of reading or re-reading it."

I can move Paris Peasant up on my list for a reread. Thinking maybe finish Walser this month, and then do Nadja and Paris Peasant for July.

So, two questions. First, would love some more comment on what you like about Walser. I thought this link that was in the class summary was very informative:
http://therumpus.net/2012/07/the-walk...

Second, I have both translations of Paris Peasant. I absolutely loved the 1970 translation by Frederick Brown (pink cover).
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...

I have the Simon Watson Taylor translation also but never finished it because I so preferred the Brown translation. However, I want to read the Taylor now that I have more time. The Brown translation is out of print. Will you be reading the Taylor translation?

[Klowey]

Jimmy wrote: "Oooh sounds like a cool class... I'm also really interested in books about walking or have walking as a central theme. I created a GR bookshelf of walking books a while ago, if you're interested it's here: https://www.goodreads.com/review/list...
"

Great list. By the way, Odile was also on the class list, so let me edit my original post to add it.

[Klowey]

Thomas wrote: "I might join you guys with reading Nadja then"

Can join in for Nadja, starting to reread July 1.

[Paul]

Nathanimal wrote: "Awesome list, Jimmy!"

Sentiment echoed.

Perec's 'A Man Asleep' springs to mind, and anything Modiano.

[Thoma]

I haven’t read “A Man Asleep” yet, but I’ve heard Perec adapted it into a film and it’s meant to be good, as would be expected from him, so I’ll definitely be checking that out

[Nathanimal]

Klowey wrote: First, would love some more comment on what you like about Walser.

Walser has this tiny one-page story—if you can call it a story—called ‘Little Ramble’ where he just walks around for a bit, noticing things. Walser sometimes reminds me of a happy dog, the kind who’s thrilled simply to be outside. “The road snuggled up splendidly to the mountainsides,” he recounts. He talks briefly to another hiker, see two others but doesn’t talk to them. Those are the main events of the story.

Walser has made his home where the one meaning of “ramble” (a walk) and the other meaning of “ramble” (a digression) touch. It’s a very small place that doesn’t seek to be important. In fact his chatty narrators, who are really just him, often have an hilariously insolent relationship to power, taking a perverse enjoyment from those who would dominate them or slap them around a little. When he met Lenin in Zurich the question he famously put to him was: “So you, too, like fruitcake?”

I love snuggly tone of his irony and the turns and constantly shifting grades of his sentences—I remember his translator Bernofsky saying something like “they’re each their own weather system.” I love how okay he is with being small, which brings him constant surprise and delight. ‘Little Ramble,’ after making so much of so little, ends with the memorable line (and, for me, words to live by): “We don’t need to see anything out of the ordinary. We already see so much.”

Klowey wrote: I have both translations of Paris Peasant. . . . Will you be reading the Taylor translation?

It turns out I have the Taylor translation, too. I wasn’t careful about this selection. It’s a used book I picked up on the cheap that’s been sitting on my shelf forever.

The previous owner of the book underlined a single line which isn’t even in the book but in the introduction:

“. . . this sense of the marvelous suffusing everyday existence?”

And then they dog-eared the first page, which I assume means they stopped there. I vow that my Paris ramble will make it past the front door!

July would be perfect for me, actually. That way I can swim out from the pile of books I’m drowning in.

[Thoma]

I think I heard about Walser through The Brothers Quay; two American twin brothers who are stop-motion animators who are best known for their adaptation of Schulz’s Street of Crocodiles, though the film has little relation to the plot details of the original and is more just inspired by it. They’re also influenced by numerous other European writers artists, filmmakers. Haha sorry this isn’t a film discussion group

[Nathanimal]

Thomas wrote: "I think I heard about Walser through The Brothers Quay . . ."

I love The Brothers Quay. They're not a book, but they seem irrealist to me. They seem very influenced by Jan Švankmajer, from Prague, whose film Alice has all the dingy, urban, wandering, and dream-like qualities we've been discussing on here.

Also, on the topic of Prague. The folks who started the Café Irreal were expats in Prague. Kafka was from Prague. (The Czech writer, Michal Ajvaz, also typifies the genre, I think, though there's something about his writing that I don't connect with.) Prague gets my vote for the capital of irrealism.

It's also famous for its strange puppetry tradition, which, I'm just now thinking, factors often into irrealism. I'm thinking Schulz' tailor's dummies. Kleist's marionettes (maybe as a precursor). Puppets, dummies, and manikins are regularly cited as examples of the uncanny. (I kinda hope Bill chimes in here, this is his warren.) We haven't really talked about the uncanny as a part of irrealism, have we? It seems like an important element.

Thomas, I haven't heard of this connection between the Brothers Quay and Walser. Is there something I should watch immediately?

[Nathanimal]

How did you enjoy The Walk, Klowey?

[Klowey]

July 1st it is then for Paris Peasant. I'm looking forward to reading the Taylor translation.

Looks like we have several takers on Nadja as well.

Love your comments on Walser. I agree but I am so new to him that it's nice to have other input. I have read "A Litttle Ramble" as it's in the book of his short stories I'm reading. Really loving it.

[Klowey]

Thomas wrote: "I think I heard about Walser through The Brothers Quay; two American twin brothers who are stop-motion animators who are best known for their adaptation of Schulz’s Street of Crocodiles, though the..."

I like the Brothers Quay. I first heard of them when I was working at Pixar. Lots of unique, eccentric, creative people there, the kind who would like the Brothers Quay. ;-)

I haven't seen their adaptation of Street of Crocodiles, but now I'll have to!

I like when Irrealist books overlap with film.