Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows
discussion
Is there any "good guy" character that you didn't like?
Anthony wrote: "Joaquín wrote: "Snape
PLEASE DONT ATTACK ME. All right, I appreciate what he did for Dumbledore and Hogwarts and alladat, but he really didn't have to be such a d-bag. In book 4, Draco puts an Eng..."
YES YESS SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDSSSSSSSSSSSS
PLEASE DONT ATTACK ME. All right, I appreciate what he did for Dumbledore and Hogwarts and alladat, but he really didn't have to be such a d-bag. In book 4, Draco puts an Eng..."
YES YESS SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDSSSSSSSSSSSS
I wouldn't classify Snape as a "good guy" in the first place. He's a lot more complex than that. That being said, there are people who like antagonists (let's keep a barrier between fiction and reality). I personally have sympathy for those multidimensional characters with conflicted inner pains and reasons for acting as bitterly as they do (e.g. the Phantom from Phantom of the Opera, Darth Vader, Loki from Thor...). Of course, characters like Voldemort would never belong in that category ;pI believe in a lot of cases the movies play a huge role as well in influencing people's perspectives. In HP movies I think Alan Rickman took a more sympathetic approach to Snape, and I can understand him doing that. Let's not forget that it's Alan Rickman. His reputation is probably enough to convey people.
Aurelia wrote: "I wouldn't classify Snape as a "good guy" in the first place. He's a lot more complex than that. That being said, there are people who like antagonists (let's keep a barrier between fiction and rea..."I heartily agree with everything you've said. I also like antagonists and can sympathize with them on a level that some people can't, but I can never give sympathy to the truly black characters such as Voldemort, Sauron, etc.
Yeah, I like Snape as a character a LOT but he is a HORRIBLE human being. He's just despicable. But I think it's cool how he can live and die a horrible person but still do nice things sometimes. He has a backstory. It doesn't try to JUSTIFY what he does, simply explain. And I think that's beautiful. He's messed up and I hate him. But I feel for him and like that Rowling didn't say that despicable and admirable aren't mutually exclusive. (Not that people should be like Snape. But he does nice stuff without instantly turning good).
Nick wrote: "Speaking of good characters we don't like. I didn't like Elinor from Inkheart series. Too annoying"
This is for the Harry Potter series, Nick.
This is for the Harry Potter series, Nick.
Dramapuppy wrote: "Yeah, I like Snape as a character a LOT but he is a HORRIBLE human being. He's just despicable. But I think it's cool how he can live and die a horrible person but still do nice things sometimes. H..."
Yeah, and we all know what he lives to say...
Yeah, and we all know what he lives to say...
so I'm still not sure whether Severus Snape was good or bad but everybody loves him and I hate him. When Lily rejected James he fixed up his act. When Lily rejected Snape he acted like a jerk. And continued to act like a jerk to her son and friends after she died. Another thing, he just stepped over James's body and left Harry in the crib while he craddled Lily's lifeless body. 1. creepy 2. unhelpful And was there any reason to pick on Hermione? Just cause she was smart or what. Or Neville? The poor boy already had enough he didn't need to be picked on by his teacher. A teacher is expected to help his students excel, not put them down. Also, Like you were rejected, get over it. If you had really loved her "always" you would have fixed your attitude, you would have treated her son and his friends the right way, and you would accept the fact that she wasn't attracted to you. Instead he acted like a whiny kid, joined the death eaters and bullied Harry and the rest of them. Harry should have never named his first born after snape. He should have named it after Hagrid or Sirius or Remus, someone who had truly cared for him and was a true hero. Or even George who was a great guy who fought up until his untimely death. C'mon Harry you should have let Ginny pick if you were gonna pick that terrible name.
I think Dobby's death was a death of innocence. He was very uneducated, and very uniformed, much like a child (maybe thats why you all find him annoying) The thing about Dobby is that he wanted to protect Harry, and because he wasn't very smart he thought that hiding his letters and almost getting him killed was protecting him from more serious danger. When he died, it was not of his own doing, but of protecting Harry and putting himself in danger for the sake of others, his death shouldn't of happened because he shouldn't of been in the line of danger but he was. The death of a child like creature.
Hayley wrote: "so I'm still not sure whether Severus Snape was good or bad but everybody loves him and I hate him. When Lily rejected James he fixed up his act. When Lily rejected Snape he acted like a jerk. And ..."Well, I don't really recall Lily rejecting James in the book and James "fixing up his act," but then again I have not read it in a while. Snape merely blurted out "mudblood" out of humiliation and extreme embarrassment and he tried to apologize afterward, but Lily did not want to have it (which is understandable, given Snape's dangerous obsession with the dark arts at the time).
The stepping over James' body bit and cradling Lily's body is merely in the movie, NOT in the book (he also didn't step on James exactly, he just eyed him cautiously but his preoccupation was Lily). I understand why you would assume he ignored Harry completely, but the movie only showed like 3 seconds of the scene (I would agree that he would have ignored Harry though, partly because he was not supposed to be there in the first place. And anyway, can you imagine Snape handling a baby? It's not in his nature).
By the time Lily died and Voldemort was temporarily destroyed, I think Snape no longer held allegiance with the Death Eaters. He didn't want to be a part of them anymore, but he was quite physically bound to them, especially when the Dark Lord came back. That's why he led a double life.
And again, Snape had a troubled past. He never really received any kind of love, except for a short period of friendship from Lily. He was bullied throughout his time at school. He was a part of Slytherin house and his friends were sadistic and set on becoming Death Eaters. He would of course have been a very psychologically disturbed guy and he would not have known much about compassion or moral ideals. He was filled with spite because that's what his whole life was full of.
I don't like Harry. Is is very attention seeking and arrogant i reckon
Ron was a little bit of a jerk in 4-7.
Hayley wrote: "Or even George who was a great guy who fought up until his untimely death."Fred. ;)
Joaquín wrote: "Ron was a little bit of a jerk in 4-7."Yeah but i didnt hate him because you could see where he was coming from. he was constantly in someone's shadow and it sure didnt help that his BFF was harry potter
****Kelly***** wrote: "Joaquín wrote: "Ron was a little bit of a jerk in 4-7."
Yeah but i didnt hate him because you could see where he was coming from. he was constantly in someone's shadow and it sure didnt help that ..."
He didn't have to be such a jerk though, Harry was a great friend and he'd understand.
Yeah but i didnt hate him because you could see where he was coming from. he was constantly in someone's shadow and it sure didnt help that ..."
He didn't have to be such a jerk though, Harry was a great friend and he'd understand.
Joaquín wrote: "****Kelly***** wrote: "Joaquín wrote: "Ron was a little bit of a jerk in 4-7."Yeah but i didnt hate him because you could see where he was coming from. he was constantly in someone's shadow and i..."
Yeah. I can definitely see Ron's justifications, but I hate him.
It really irks me when people are constantly @#!*% about Harry naming his son after Snape. You aren't J.K. Rowling and you aren't Harry. Rowling decided Harry was grateful to Snape and showed that Harry was good enough not to hold a grudge. Get over yourselves.
Hannah wrote: "It really irks me when people are constantly @#!*% about Harry naming his son after Snape. You aren't J.K. Rowling and you aren't Harry. Rowling decided Harry was grateful to Snape and showed tha..."It irks me that he(harry)/she(Rowling) named Harry's kids after people.
I just imagine Harry going like this:
"I cant think of a good orignal name so lets name our kids after dead people! well, lets see, we'll name our first after my dad and my god father. that was easy."
Fast forward about 2 years
"hmmmmm............ how about Albus. i like that name because i liked its pervious owner......... *going through a mental list of people who died* ............... how about Severous? i know it sounds evil and its a horrible name for a kid and Snape was abusive to me as well as everyone, but he was good in the end wasn't he?"
Fast forward a year
"Yay! a girl! we will name you after my mum! Now we need a middle name for you........... how do we know who is dead and female?? this is hard....... give me a minute....... Hedwig? No............ i give up lets name her after Luna because..........ummmm.... i got it! we went out to a party together and painted me and the rest of her friends on the ceiling."
****Kelly***** wrote: "Hannah wrote: "It really irks me when people are constantly @#!*% about Harry naming his son after Snape. You aren't J.K. Rowling and you aren't Harry. Rowling decided Harry was grateful to Snape..."This is hilarious!
PLEASE DON'T ATTACK ME. But I love Snape. I am a Snape-sympathizer so don't hate me. ;)Oh, how I love being in the minority... it just makes me feel special and unique; so haters keep hating.
SIRIUS!!He and his whole wretched thing with Harry, going on and on about "But your Father would have done this..". Dude, can you grow up and move on?? STOP PUTTING UNNECESSARY PRESSURE ON THIS POOR CHILD. HE HAS ENOUGH ON HIS PLATE ALREADY.
One more thing about the naming? what irks me is not even Harry naming his children after dead people. But how come Ginny doesn't get to name her children after people she lost in the battle? But i have to admit this is not really important haha. Just something that annoyed me about the ending that was otherwise perfect for me.
krystal wrote: "Hannah wrote: "PLEASE DON'T ATTACK ME. But I love Snape. I am a Snape-sympathizer so don't hate me. ;)Oh, how I love being in the minority... it just makes me feel special and unique; so haters ..."
You know I wasn't necessarily reacting to you. I was just stating it to whomever I wanted to. I don't hate on people who don't like him... I just want to speak my mind. I do happen to like the fact that less people like Snape than hate him because I've always liked being more unique than everyone else. Got a problem with that?
Well, I don't dislike him, but I don't like Ron a ton. He just seems kind of average and like he's not that individual. I dunno. But I don't dislike him.
well Harry Potter himself for starters, he's a nosy brat with anger management issues, and whatever anyone says i blame him for Sirius' death. I used to hate Ron too though somehow i got used to him but Ginevra, well she was annoying from start to finish.
krystal wrote: "Hannah wrote: "krystal wrote: "Hannah wrote: "PLEASE DON'T ATTACK ME. But I love Snape. I am a Snape-sympathizer so don't hate me. ;)Oh, how I love being in the minority... it just makes me feel..."
Well, you know what? Hating him just irks me, okay? It gets on my nerves.
I know you're offended by my strong opinions and values... but that's just the way I see things; it somehow makes it evident to me how deeply compassionate I am to love a character who everyone else resents so much.
Okay, maybe I'm pissing you off by this speech... but I've been different my entire life. How can I but be a bit arrogant about it; I prefer it over being insecure about it.
AgCl wrote: "well Harry Potter himself for starters, he's a nosy brat with anger management issues, and whatever anyone says i blame him for Sirius' death. I used to hate Ron too though somehow i got used to hi..."I do agree that Harry is really obnoxious in some of the books (cough cough, Order of the Phoenix, cough cough), but I don't dislike him other than that. And with Sirius, I just try not to assign blame for those things. It just seems unnecessary and it doesn't help anyone.
CabinSixGryffindorEOW wrote: "AgCl wrote: "well Harry Potter himself for starters, he's a nosy brat with anger management issues, and whatever anyone says i blame him for Sirius' death. I used to hate Ron too though somehow i g..."*shrug* its just my opinion on a fictional story not reality. i don't see why it--positive or otherwise--would be anything helpful or harmful.
AgCl wrote: "CabinSixGryffindorEOW wrote: "AgCl wrote: "well Harry Potter himself for starters, he's a nosy brat with anger management issues, and whatever anyone says i blame him for Sirius' death. I used to h..."I just mean that thinking about it too much can make the reader dislike characters because of assigning the blame, something I think J.K. Rowling was trying to avoid because of the way she spread around the blame. And I guess it also doesn't help the characters, because when they blame each other then it turns into a mess.
Hagrid is sometimes a frustrating character. He puts the kids in danger (Blast-Ended Skrewts, Grawp, etc.).
Joaquín wrote: "Hagrid is sometimes a frustrating character. He puts the kids in danger (Blast-Ended Skrewts, Grawp, etc.)."Yeah, but he didn't really know what he was doing. I think he's just kind of cute and lovable and the kids put up with it because he's so sensitive and if they spoke up, it would hurt their feelings.
Dramapuppy wrote: "Joaquín wrote: "Hagrid is sometimes a frustrating character. He puts the kids in danger (Blast-Ended Skrewts, Grawp, etc.)."
Yeah, but he didn't really know what he was doing. I think he's just ki..."
EXACTLY! Hagrid is too mushy for his own good.
Yeah, but he didn't really know what he was doing. I think he's just ki..."
EXACTLY! Hagrid is too mushy for his own good.
Joaquín wrote: "Dramapuppy wrote: "Joaquín wrote: "Hagrid is sometimes a frustrating character. He puts the kids in danger (Blast-Ended Skrewts, Grawp, etc.)."Yeah, but he didn't really know what he was doing. I..."
Yeah. I find it endearing, though, not frustrating.
Dramapuppy wrote: "Joaquín wrote: "Dramapuppy wrote: "Joaquín wrote: "Hagrid is sometimes a frustrating character. He puts the kids in danger (Blast-Ended Skrewts, Grawp, etc.)."
Yeah, but he didn't really know what..."
Meh. I guess we can have our own opinions.
Yeah, but he didn't really know what..."
Meh. I guess we can have our own opinions.
I just feel like Hagrid doesn't understand what most people think about his creatures. he just tries to make lessons interesting for everyone, and this sometimes frustrates me, but only because I love Hagrid and I hate when the students don't like his lessons. And he has done some good lessons-niflers and unicorns to name a couple.
Dumbledore was a dick to Ariana.
Joaquín wrote: "Dumbledore was a dick to Ariana."Yes. He was a dick to pretty much everyone. Yet people think he's awesome...
Why, SuperWoman#2?
Yeah?! Why don't you like Neville?
I'm sorry but I kinda hate Ginny Weasley. I cannot get into her character and I don't ship her with Harry.
Shawna wrote: "I'm sorry but I kinda hate Ginny Weasley. I cannot get into her character and I don't ship her with Harry."Nothing to be sorry about, she's the biggest disaster in the whole series.
I don't mind Ginny but I feel like if Rowling had just left her alone and not paired her off with Harry, I would've liked her a whole lot more.I hate Dumbledore, though.
I agree completely, Hayley.
@alexander - your points about the world wars are fascinating; I just have one thing to question. The parallel that you drew between the minority races that were persecuted in the wars and the house elves does not match up so well. What makes more sense to me is to draw the parallel between the minority races such as Jews, blacks, etc and muggles.
Cho Chang
B wrote: "@alexander - your points about the world wars are fascinating; I just have one thing to question. The parallel that you drew between the minority races that were persecuted in the wars and the hous..."Hi B. I agree with your reading of WW2 racial and religious minorities being represented, to some degree, by muggles. My argument regarding House Elves, however, exists in a context broader than the War, i.e. I argue that they are reminiscent of cultural silencing that occurred in the centuries leading up to the 20th Century, and its first few decades - a social context that reaches far beyond the specific temporality of WW2.
The core of my argument is that one could read the representation of House Elves as reminiscent of cultural silencing that occurred in the West. I have several posts explaining this cultural phenomenon and the literary devices Rowling employs to (potentially) enforce our subjugation of House Elves. I'm not sure if you have read those follow-ups, but I'll be happy to answer any further questions you have if those explanations do not suffice.
SuperWoman#3( stars are seen in 22 million ways like music ) wrote: "nevile!"
WHY DON'T YOU LIKE NEVILLE
WHY DON'T YOU LIKE NEVILLE
Ginny and Cho Chang, both just boring characters. Also James Potter, who I thought was a jerk and bully, especially to poor Snape. :P
Misstigerjojo wrote: "Ginny and Cho Chang, both just boring characters. Also James Potter, who I thought was a jerk and bully, especially to poor Snape. :P"
Yeah, I never liked James, even if he was just being a "stupid kid".
Yeah, I never liked James, even if he was just being a "stupid kid".
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PLEASE DONT ATTACK ME. All right, I appreciate what he did for Dumbledore and Hogwarts and alladat, but he really didn't have to be such a d-bag. In book 4, Draco puts an Engorgement Charm o..."
You're right, Snape is an ass. I never understood why one single chapter of "goodness" makes up for 6-and-a-half books of being a vicious bastard.