Introduction

[Manuel]

Written between 1578 and 1579 in Granada, Spain, after John's escape from prison, the Ascent is illustrated by a diagram of the process outlined in the text of the Soul's progress to the summit of the metaphorical Mount Carmel where God is encountered. The work is divided into three sections and is set out as a commentary on eight poetic stanzas by John on the subject of the Dark Night. John shows how the Soul sets out to leave all worldly ties and appetites behind to achieve "nothing less than transformation in God".

To prepare the questions I have been helped by this web of the order of Discalced Carmelites, the order founded by St. Teresa de Jesus and San Juan de la Cruz: https://ocds.info/Formation%20Study/t...

[Fonch]

I have just bought the book. In few days i Will start to Read It.

[Jt]

I'm picking it up on Monday and looking forward to reading it with our group.

[Fergus, Weaver of Autistic Webs]

So glad that both of you will join in! It’s a daunting book, but it has convinced me of its truth in my own long experience. Its insights have been shared by so many believers!

[Fonch]

I have started to Read today at This moment i am in the foreword or prologue.

[Carina]

I just joined this club. Thanks for the invite. Despite the late start, looking forward to getting started on this book.

[Fonch]

Hello Carina welcome to Catholic Book Club. In my case It was really useful the foreword to understand the Ascent of Mount Carmelo. It was very useful to Read the City of God because i am a disaster in theology.

[Fergus, Weaver of Autistic Webs]

Me too - I join in welcoming our new member! - and my theological know-how is practically nil like yours, Fonch. I was so blinded by St Alphonsus’ endless prose in his book on ethics, I had to abandon it.

[Fonch]

It does not Matter Fergus. I also have given up Interesting books for others.

[Manuel]

I have tried my hand at translating into English the initial poem of the Ascent. I offer it to you for what it's worth:

1. On a dark night,
eagerly, fully in love inflamed,
Oh joy most happy!
I went out without being observed
with my house just forever settled.

2. In darkness and secure,
up the secret scale, in disguise,
Oh joy most happy!
in darkness and in stealth,
with my house just forever settled.

3. In the fortunate night,
in secret, while nobody could see me,
I was looking at nothing,
without light and guidance
but the light that's burning in my heart.

4. This light me was guiding
far truer than the noon sun ever shines,
where I was expected
by I knew well Whom,
somewhere where I seemed to be alone.

5. Oh night that me guided!
Oh night, more lovely than the dawn!
Oh night that got together
Beloved with beloved,
beloved into Beloved forever turned!

6. In my flowery chest,
that just for him He wanted to conserve,
there he fell asleep,
and I him pampered
and the fan of the cedars gave us air.

7. The air in the battlement,
when I his hair happyly scattered,
with his hand serene
he hurt me in my neck
and all my senses happly were suspended.

8. I staid and forgot,
I rested my face on the Beloved,
all stopped and left me,
leaving my care
forever among lilies far forgot'n.

[Fonch]

Very good translation.

[Jill]

my ignorant input: There's no "luck" involved in the life of grace.

[Manuel]

Jill wrote: "my ignorant input: There's no "luck" involved in the life of grace."

Let me explain: the original poem has the two words "dichosa ventura" where "dichosa" means "happy" and "ventura" has two possible meanings: "luck" and "happiness". I chose the first meaning so as to avoid the meaning "happy happiness."

But you are right, there is no "luck" in the life of grace, unless we allow for the expression "how lucky I am, God has noticed me." But I can see this is far-fetched, therefore I'll accept your correction. I have changed those two verses to "Oh joy most happy!"

[Fergus, Weaver of Autistic Webs]

Manuel, your translation is wonderful. It takes me back to 1982, after my Mom died - the simple beauty of St John’s lyrics inspired me as your translation does today! A year later I joined the Church.

[Fonch]

I think that Alfonseca did a hard work. I must confess that i am not an expert indeed i have never got the B2 in English, It is One of the lowest certificates in English, but if Fergus praises the translation This must be right.

[Marcia]

Just read your translation. Night (darkness) is often equated with fear, even terror, but according to St. John, night is a lull in the storm. I was also struck by the words that touch the senses, especially sight and touch. from Marcia (new member.) Please explain how your club works. It appears there is a new book each month and people respond to different aspects of the book? Thanks for your coaching tips. (I'm also new to online book discussions.)

[Mariangel]

Welcome, Marcia. Yes, we start a book each month. The book for August is The Four Loves by C.S. Lewis. Here is a link to the discussion questions for the book. You are welcome to post answers as you read the book.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/group...

On the 15th we will vote for next month's book, so keep an eye for the announcement.

[Marcia]

Thanks, Mariangel. I've read many books by C.S. Lewis but not this one. I just ordered it from Amazon. Best wishes, Marcia (Chicago)