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Infinite Jest by D.F. Wallace, Week 14.
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Jan 07, 2015 01:34PM
Still the same year and the same date on our Infinite Jest calender: 14 November Year of the Depend Adult Undergarment, and the many events fill in the limited temporal space of the novel.
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Still working my way through this section. I took a break from IJ during the holidays so I wouldn't get ahead of the group, so I'm just now diving back in. But one question - what's with all of Maranthe's sniffing?? I had noticed that during his interaction with Steeply, and now he actually brings it up as being fake sniffs and that it seems to be a habit. I just find it funny.
Oh, and I just finished the section where Joelle describes meeting the Incandenzas and having Thanksgiving dinner with them. It was interesting how everything seemed pretty normal, especially Avril (almost too normal and "good"?), but that there was something off about the entire family that she couldn't put a finger on (again, especially Avril in this case). It seemed everyone was too eager to show that the family was normal, and everyone was smiling all throughout. Even Avril noticed that after dinner her facial muscles were sore, I assume from all her smiling. I found the fluorescent lighting put an artificial feel on the whole scene, even as the family tried so hard. And then to have Joelle not want to go to sleep for fear of nightmares...
Also, I found it interesting that Joelle really didn't like Hal, that he was a show-off to her.
I just finished that section too. I didn't even notice Marathe's sniffing ... I'll look out for that now!The scene with Joelle cleaning and Marathe downstairs looking for her is creepy in so many ways. The Thanksgiving dinner - yes, she saw things from a very different perspective - Hal, and violent jealousy under Avril's careful welcoming and inclusive manner.
There was a part about the film Medusa and the Odalisque, where performers turn the audience to stone and then the performers are shown with hideously pained faces. Then in the next paragraph, Joelle is described as 'petrifyingly pretty'. Petrifying, of course, literally means turning to stone. Joelle is also a performer, and her last performance, in IJ, kind of turns the audience to stone. So I wondered if she knows that, and how she feels about it, and if that has anything to do with her veil?
Just came to a part with Marathe sniffing. I would have assumed it was part of his posing as an addict, but if he did it with Steeply ... no idea.
Linda wrote: "But one question - what's with all of Maranthe's sniffing?? "I took this to be a side-effect of his pretending to be a drug addict for his interviews at the half-way houses.
I also agree that the scene with Joelle at dinner was off-putting to say the least. It really showed a side of the family we aren't seeing currently, and shows that there is something hidden and strange about the Incandenzas.
Hmm...interesting catch on the Medusa film...there are so many weird and hidden things in Himself's films. I wonder if they are going to end up being significant, or if this is going to be just another weird connection in the book that is never explained or brought up again. I do still think that something happened to Joelle to make her actually deformed. There have been several mentions of this so far, and I do believe that she is. Well, I guess she could also have led people to believe this...which takes me back to your comment...and maybe this does bother her... Wow, now I'm just in a rambling spiral!!
For this section, maybe page 724, but my notes are unclear here, it is mentioned that the AFR have a canadian instructor and student already on the inside, and have encouraged an Enfield employee to also join. Any speculation on who these people might be? I think it'd be super interesting if that student is John Wayne. The professor is probably Poutrincourt (sp?). Who might be the recently converted employee? What about Avril? She is having a weird affair thing with John Wayne and is Canadian. Any thoughts?
I liked the part on page 738 where Orin finds it weird that his brothers aren't taller since his parents are so tall. Is CT tall? Do we know?
I nearly peed myself on page 764 when Mario notices weird prints on the carpet and thinks they might be knuckle prints....HAHAHAHAHA.
So..what is up with Hal's teeth dreams? I have nooo idea!
I really really enjoyed the conversation between Kate and Marathe about the entertainment, and that Kate would chose to watch the entertainment if the option was available to her. My favorite parts of this book are these deep, philosophical conversations about the entertainment, freedom of choice, and the extent to which people's rights and happiness should be regulated by the government. I love having debates like this, so I am really enjoying Wallace's character's takes on these issues.
Kaycie wrote: "For this section, maybe page 724, but my notes are unclear here, it is mentioned that the AFR have a canadian instructor and student already on the inside, and have encouraged an Enfield employee to also join. Any speculation on who these people might be? I think it'd be super interesting if that student is John Wayne. The professor is probably Poutrincourt (sp?). Who might be the recently converted employee? What about Avril? She is having a weird affair thing with John Wayne and is Canadian. Any thoughts?"I also thought of John Wayne and Thierry Poutrincourt. This might be why JW is having an affair with Avril - to get information, or possibly, if you're right, to turn her over to their side. But I don't think Avril is the new spy, because she surely wouldn't be described as an 'employee'. It could be one of the Ennet House people who work there?* Or that counsellor, what's her name, Dolores something?
Maybe it's one of their spies who is doing all the 'poltergeist' type things like hanging brooms on the wall? (but why ...)
I nearly peed myself on page 764 when Mario notices weird prints on the carpet and thinks they might be knuckle prints....HAHAHAHAHA.
I missed this! Thanks for catching it - went back and read it and it is funny!
I thought it was sweet and sad (and also funny) where Mario sees some of Orin's football gear in Avril's office and he assumes it's just there like a photo to remind Avril of Orin ...
So..what is up with Hal's teeth dreams? I have nooo idea!
Hal's teeth dreams AND Joelle's teeth dreams! Although hers have a more obvious cause.
I also liked the section with Marathe and Kate. I love those sections that are all dialogue, and no commentary at all. You could see Kate getting drunker just through her speech.
I wondered what will be the consequences of that. I assumed this was still the 11th November, and 3 days later, on the 14th, while Joelle is cleaning, Kate still has a bed at Ennet House. Wouldn't she have been thrown out either for coming in drunk or for skipping curfew if she didn't go back? Or if she hadn't come back at all in 3 days, I'd have thought they'd have packed up her things. So that confused me.
Ooh ... just thought ... what is Kate's job? All the Ennet House residents have to have a job. Does she work at ETA and is Marathe about to recruit her as that new spy?
*(edited again to add ... no because in that case they could have asked her if Joelle was at Ennet House without needing Marathe to go there ... same being true for any EH resident being an AFR spy)
On another point, I hated that conversation where Pemulis is working on Hal to stop him coming off drugs completely. I saw an 'evil drug pusher' side of Pemulis in that section.
Kaycie wrote: "For this section, maybe page 724, but my notes are unclear here, it is mentioned that the AFR have a canadian instructor and student already on the inside, and have encouraged an Enfield employee to also join. Any speculation on who these people might be? I think it'd be super interesting if that student is John Wayne. The professor is probably Poutrincourt (sp?). Who might be the recently converted employee? What about Avril? She is having a weird affair thing with John Wayne and is Canadian. Any thoughts?"I'm having a hard time remembering all the instructors, so I had immediately thought of Avril (but she's not Canadian, is she, now I can't remember) or Charles Tavis. But then I thought that couldn't be right since they aren't actually instructors (I guess they could be the "employee"?).
Yeah, John Wayne has a big red flag now, especially with his involvement with Avril - good point Kaycie.
I liked the part on page 738 where Orin finds it weird that his brothers aren't taller since his parents are so tall. Is CT tall? Do we know?
Ha! I was wondering about CT's height myself. I'm not sure if we were told?
I nearly peed myself on page 764 when Mario notices weird prints on the carpet and thinks they might be knuckle prints....HAHAHAHAHA.
!!!!!!! LOL !!!!!! Me too, that was so funny!
OK, still have not finished this section, so those are all my comments for now.
Rosemary wrote: "*(edited again to add ... no because in that case they could have asked her if Joelle was at Ennet House without needing Marathe to go there ... same being true for any EH resident being an AFR spy)"Yes, I agree with this...it probably isn't an Ennet house person. What about Lyle? I think I wrote down somewhere that Himself found Lyle in Canada...maybe Quebec? I'll have to check my notes...he was also close to Himself, though, so might be a good choice for info on the entertainment.
I thought it was sweet and sad (and also funny) where Mario sees some of Orin's football gear in Avril's office and he assumes it's just there like a photo to remind Avril of Orin ...
Agreed...Poor, innocent Mario! :-) Funny, though.
Rosemary wrote: "I wondered what will be the consequences of that. I assumed this was still the 11th November, and 3 days later, on the 14th, while Joelle is cleaning, Kate still has a bed at Ennet House. Wouldn't she have been thrown out either for coming in drunk or for skipping curfew if she didn't go back? Or if she hadn't come back at all in 3 days, I'd have thought they'd have packed up her things. So that confused me."
OO, I forgot about this... I had serious questions with this and this is the first time I am wondering about the timeline. This part is listed under Nov 11th, but it is a separate section (separated by spaces) between the first part that was described as Nov 11th. I also think this HAS to be on Nov 14th after Kate was robbed and Marathe was interviewing for Ennet house (I can't remember now exactly why I thought it had to be then). Does that mean that all this time when I thought that the section header applied to every part in that section it might not have?? Did anyone else think this might be Nov 11th for a reason other than the section header?
Rosemary wrote: "On another point, I hated that conversation where Pemulis is working on Hal to stop him coming off drugs completely. I saw an 'evil drug pusher' side of Pemulis in that section. "
I agree. Pemulis was one of my favorites until this part.
Linda wrote: "so I had immediately thought of Avril (but she's not Canadian, is she, now I can't remember) or Charles Tavis. "
I think both Avril and CT are Canadian. Avril definitely is, and I thought CT was as well.
Linda wrote: "I'm not sure if we were told?"
I couldn't remember any mention of CT's stature...maybe someone else will remember something we missed/forgot, though.
Kaycie wrote: " Does that mean that all this time when I thought that the section header applied to every part in that section it might not have??"This has always been a question for me while reading, I don't know why I haven't asked everyone before. I didn't assume each section after a year heading was in that year, but I wondered and wasn't sure.
I haven't read all of this section yet, so I haven't read to the bottom of Rosemary's comments yet (when I saw stuff I had not come to). But I happened to glance at your comment about the headings.
Kaycie wrote: "I think both Avril and CT are Canadian. Avril definitely is, and I thought CT was as well."Thanks, I should have remembered that detail.
Kaycie wrote: "What about Lyle? I think I wrote down somewhere that Himself found Lyle in Canada...maybe Quebec?"I think Lyle is an excellent suspect. Kind of under the radar since he's basically just sitting in the weight room (or is he in the locker room?). And since his "job" seems to be to help out all the kids with his "therapy sessions", he seems like a good guy. Perhaps he's not....
Linda wrote: "This has always been a question for me while reading, I don't know why I haven't asked everyone before. I didn't assume each section after a year heading was in that year, but I wondered and wasn't sure."Aw crap. Welp, after this section, it makes sense and you are probably right that they aren't connected, but it never occurred to me before that this might be the case...
Linda wrote: "I should have remembered that detail. "
If we remembered every detail of this monster, we'd be computers!
Kaycie wrote: "OO, I forgot about this... I had serious questions with this and this is the first time I am wondering about the timeline. This part is listed under Nov 11th, but it is a separate section (separated by spaces) between the first part that was described as Nov 11th. I also think this HAS to be on Nov 14th after Kate was robbed and Marathe was interviewing for Ennet house (I can't remember now exactly why I thought it had to be then). Does that mean that all this time when I thought that the section header applied to every part in that section it might not have?? Did anyone else think this might be Nov 11th for a reason other than the section header?"Yes, the only reason I thought this was the 11th, was because there wasn't a new date after the last section headed 11th. Wow, yes, if that doesn't apply, all dates are questionable ...!
I see what you mean about this being after Kate was robbed. So that happened on the 14th? I have totally lost track of dates for previous sections. But this also would mean that Marathe doesn't stay at EH...? He leaves and somehow (by chance or what?) meets Kate at a bar ... I guess that will all be revealed!
With only 4 weeks to go, it's getting SO tempting to read ahead. But I won't because it would make it even harder to discuss without messing something up :-)
Kaycie wrote: "Linda wrote: "But one question - what's with all of Maranthe's sniffing?? "I took this to be a side-effect of his pretending to be a drug addict for his interviews at the half-way houses."
Page 90: Marathe sniffed. A large odor of inexpensive and high-alcohol perfume came not from Steeply's person but from his handbag, which failed to complement his shoes.
Page 91: Marathe sniffed hard, as if congested of the nose. 'A puzzling,' he said.
Page 106: Marathe sniffed
Page 108: Marathe’s sniff held disdain.
Page 321: Marathe pretended again to sniff.
Page 422: Marathe again found himself pretending to sniff with the congestion.
Page 429, 430: Marathe sniffed so deeply that it became a sigh.
Marathe sniffed again and said:
Page 528, 530: Marathe sniffed.
Marathe realized about himself that some of his pretended sniffing was for the purpose of alerting Steeply to the breaking of the silence.
Page 748: He was being driven distracted also by this habit to pretend to sniff. The false sniffs came from nowhere.
Anyway, I don't know why I picked up on his sniffing early on but I found it funny. And then laughed when finally he was "being driven distracted by this habit", so I was wondering what might have caused this habit. It seems not to be related to acting as a druggie, though.
Linda wrote: "Anyway, I don't know why I picked up on his sniffing early on but I found it funny. And then laughed when finally he was "being driven distracted by this habit", so I was wondering what might have caused this habit. It seems not to be related to acting as a druggie, though. "Oh thats so funny! I never noticed any of this until he was at Ennet house, so I just associated it with that! Great catch, though I have no idea what he'd be doing it for.
LOL! you are the sniffing police, Linda! :-)
Rosemary wrote: "LOL! you are the sniffing police, Linda! :-)"Well, you know, I do what I can to contribute to the group. :)
Kaycie wrote: "For this section, maybe page 724, but my notes are unclear here, it is mentioned that the AFR have a canadian instructor and student already on the inside, and have encouraged an Enfield employee to also join. Any speculation on who these people might be? I think it'd be super interesting if that student is John Wayne."I finished reading this week's section last night, including footnote 304 which I had not previously read when it was referred to by footnote 45. Anyway, in FN304, it talks about how it is not only prohibited, but impossible, to not actually jump across the track. And only one time has this actually happened - by a boy named Bernard Wayne - so now to do the unthinkable is called "Faire un Bernard Wayne", which brings up a feeling of disgust.
Anyway, I don't really know how John Wayne may be connected to this story (I'm assuming he may be a brother or other relation to this Bernard?), but I wonder if the speculation of him being recruited has anything to do with this? Maybe he can do some infiltrating and thus some important job for the AFR, thereby cleansing this Bernard's memory by having done something the AFR really needed? Just a thought.
This is just an excerpt that I loved. Kate is talking to Marathe about his history of falling in love with his wife. I can just see her at the edge of her seat talking all excitedly waiting for when Marathe knew it was true love."And but your passionate love for each other dried up her cerebro-spinal drool and ended the seizures and there were certain hats she looked so good in it just about drove you mad with love? Is that it?"
"Garcon!"
"Is the madly-in-love part coming up?"
Ah...dried up spinal drool in the sentence as being driven madly in love. Now THAT is writing!! And then poor Kate is so disappointed. I love how she just turns on him in an instant.
"This is love? It's like you were chained to her. It's like if you tried to get on with your own life the pain of the clinical depression came back."
This part actually had me thinking of AA as a comparison. That Marathe's wife is his AA. He didn't want to be with her, but he couldn't leave otherwise he would have no other choices (as he states himself). I actually underlined a bunch of lines in this section seeing Marathe's decision to marry his wife as a similar situation to an addict choosing to go to AA.
Linda wrote: "I finished reading this week's section last night, including footnote 304 which I had not previously read when it was referred to by footnote 45. Anyway, in FN304, it talks about how it is not only prohibited, but impossible, to not actually jump across the track. And only one time has this actually happened - by a boy named Bernard Wayne - so now to do the unthinkable is called "Faire un Bernard Wayne", which brings up a feeling of disgust.Aha! So that's probably why footnote 304 is where it is. I admit I didn't read it again *blushes*.
There must be some connection between Bernard and John Wayne. I'm sure it's no coincidence.
This part actually had me thinking of AA as a comparison. That Marathe's wife is his AA. He didn't want to be with her, but he couldn't leave otherwise he would have no other choices (as he states himself). I actually underlined a bunch of lines in this section seeing Marathe's decision to marry his wife as a similar situation to an addict choosing to go to AA.
This is interesting! I've been reading a bit about DFW and AA this week, and it sounds like he did see it something like this. He seemed to have a lot of intellectual issues with it (like Geoffrey Day) but there was no other choice. I found a link to a testimonial for the real-life Ennet House that was possibly or probably written by him. Here, and I'll put it in the links section too:
http://www.granadahouse.org/people/le...
Linda wrote: "Kaycie wrote: "For this section, maybe page 724, but my notes are unclear here, it is mentioned that the AFR have a canadian instructor and student already on the inside, and have encouraged an Enf..."Ha! I was wondering about CT's height myself. I'm not sure if we were told?
We are actually, I remember a blurb about how short he was in the section of the book where Hal and Pemulis are in the HM's office after the Eschaton debacle.
I found the fluorescent lighting put an artificial feel on the whole scene, even as the family tried so hard. And then to have Joelle not want to go to sleep for fear of nightmares...
When I think of Avril, I picture Martha Stewert...Kill you with warm kindness seamlessly integrated with cold, hair raising mannerisms.
This has always been a question for me while reading, I don't know why I haven't asked everyone before. I didn't assume each section after a year heading was in that year, but I wondered and wasn't sure.
I assumed that the episodes which didn't have a direct point of reference to the chronology of events took place during the Subsidized Time listed in the beginning of the section; but this didn't work out well for me. One example of this is when the Antitois Brothers are massacred...This occurs in a section where we begin by reading about, yet another interaction between Marathe and Steeply taking place in Tucson, AZ. The Antitois Massacre and the discussion on the cliff wouldn't have taken place simultaneously, for obvious reasons. It's all random, I think.
This part actually had me thinking of AA as a comparison. That Marathe's wife is his AA. He didn't want to be with her, but he couldn't leave otherwise he would have no other choices (as he states himself).
Brilliant, Linda. I didn't even think about it in terms of Gertraud (I think this is her name) being Marathe's solace. I was dying when he described the scene at their wedding...Oh my word! LoL!
Ami wrote: "When I think of Avril, I picture Martha Stewert...Kill you with warm kindness seamlessly integrated with cold hair raising mannerisms."Perfect!
I remember you mentioning in another thread (can't remember which week) about Avril's switch from using a green pen to a blue. What are your thoughts on why this would be? I don't remember the pen and switch in colors. Is she getting sucked into Himself's depression by being married to him, and so now the use of blue ink? I wonder what Avril was like before meeting James? We never get any flashbacks to her.
Ami wrote: " One example of this is when the Antitois Brothers are massacred...This occurs in a section where we begin by reading about, yet another interaction between Marathe and Steeply taking place in Tucson, AZ. The Antitois Massacre and the discussion on the cliff wouldn't have taken place simultaneously, for obvious reasons. It's all random, I think."Thanks for that example, Ami!
I think there is another example that occurs later than this week's reading that has to do with two points of view from different people and the weather outside.
Linda wrote: "Kaycie wrote: "For this section, maybe page 724, but my notes are unclear here, it is mentioned that the AFR have a canadian instructor and student already on the inside, and have encouraged an Enf..."FN 304
Good, you finally read it! Now does the possible connection to Avril from W6, or W7, make sense? John Wayne is said to be from an asbestos mining town, his father a senior asbestos minor. Wayne was said to be a loner on campus, all business, other than hanging out with Canadian expatriate ETA students and his patriotism to either country was questionable according to Schact (262-63). At this point, I think Wayne is the student "on the inside with an ETA employee."I thought a possible tie between the two of them because of Avril's anti ONAN affiliation with M. Duplessis and Luria P___ (30) and being from nearby areas in Quebec.
Ami wrote: "Good, you finally read it! Now does the possible connection to Avril from W6, or W7, make sense?"Yep, it does! Thanks Ami!
Linda wrote: "Ami wrote: "When I think of Avril, I picture Martha Stewert...Kill you with warm kindness seamlessly integrated with cold hair raising mannerisms."Perfect!
I remember you mentioning in another t..."
Yes, it was a footnote...I think 260-262? I thought it was representative of a once growing and budding life as it pertains to her idea of growth. Doesn't green signify life, vitality and renewal to you...Well, if she changed over to blue and taking into account what's happened in her life, I would think blue would signify the opposite of the green. I understand how many feel blue signifies hope and faith, but I think between the two it's more about having faith and belief. I still feel the color blue is representative of the overwhelming sense of despair found readily in the book. The idea of hope is prevalent but not as visible to me as having faith in something.
Still trying to catch up on my posting so I can put some more work into reading. I'm getting really behind with my other reads but Infinite Jest is so absorbing. And besides I'm still trying to catch up guys up, although I don't think I'll make it!
So this kicks off with Joelle also having a bit of a teeth obsession and Fortier 'being able' to return to the shop. Where has he been? Just out investigating or something else? Marathe has been sent to infiltrate the house to locate her so for now I hope she stays out of site cleaning. The fate of the engineer is so cold bloodedly horrific I almost have no words. These guys are seriously sick and I don't want them to get hold of a character I care about. Really, I don't want them to get hold of anyone but unfortunately I think Kates now gone - it looks like she has convinced the quadruple? agent to go back to his original responsibilities and in doing so she might have signed her own death warrant as a test subject.The Thanksgiving dinner that Joelle remembered was rather creepy. Yes, I know I like that word. In some books it just fits. I was rather startled that she considered Hal a showoff and I wonder if that was Orin's influence (like the way he would describe Mario as a total retard) or if Hal has very drastically changed in personality. Then again I suppose Hal does have his dictionary habit and as Orin constantly gets words wrong I can see how she might think this being very pro-Orin.
There is the information that Orin is the only tall child of the three which could be a little unusual with such large parents. Of course the parternity of Mario has already been called into question so I guess it's not much of a stretch to think about Hal too. Thinking back to Hamlet that would mean Orin is the only child (as Hamlet was).
Joelle also seems well aware of Orins fixation with his Mom and how she may have been some sort of stand in for her.
There's more information about how self obssessed Orin is (as if we needed any more proof) with his agonizing over his fathers reaction to his change of career.
As an aside, I tense up everytime cartridges are mentioned. I'm sure this is deliberate, DFW is taunting up with the knowledge that somewhere there is this unlabled bomb and the only way to find out it to watch it...
As always I enjoyed the conversation between Hal and Mario and there is some indication that the physical issues Mario has has also bled over somewhat into his mental processes. As well as not talking until he was 6. There was a lot being unsaid here but it really reinforced that Hal is nobodys fool and that he loves his brother more than anyone else.
But I have no idea what he is telling him to do.
Kaycie wrote: For this section, maybe page 724, but my notes are unclear here, it is mentioned that the AFR have a canadian instructor and student already on the inside, and have encouraged an Enfield employee to also join. Any speculation on who these people might be? I think it'd be super interesting if that student is John Wayne. The professor is probably Poutrincourt (sp?). Who might be the recently converted employee? What about Avril? She is having a weird affair thing with John Wayne and is Canadian. Any thoughts?"Definitely John I should think, I knew there was a reason for him being portrayed the way he was!
For the others, yes I'd bank some money on Putrincourt especially with the way she approached Steeply. For the employee there was that woman who Hal sure scuttling away from deLints office. I'll go and re-read that part.
I don't think it's Avril, if anything being in an affair with John Wayne would indicate it being his job to extract information out of her.
Kaycie wrote: I liked the part on page 738 where Orin finds it weird that his brothers aren't taller since his parents are so tall. Is CT tall? Do we know?
I nearly peed myself on page 764 when Mario notices weird prints on the carpet and thinks they might be knuckle prints....HAHAHAHAHA.
So..what is up with Hal's teeth dreams? I have nooo idea!"
CT is not tall, that has been specifically stated.
And regarding the teeth, Ami mentioned it being a sign of lack of control I think.
Rosemary wrote: On another point, I hated that conversation where Pemulis is working on Hal to stop him coming off drugs completely. I saw an 'evil drug pusher' side of Pemulis in that section. "
Mike Pemulis has a dark side to him that I've seen for a while now. It was mentioned previously in the book that he was a good friend but not someone you wanted to get on the wrong side of. He is a bit of a piece of work I reckon.
Kaycie wrote:Yes, I agree with this...it probably isn't an Ennet house person. What about Lyle? I think I wrote down somewhere that Himself found Lyle in Canada...maybe Quebec? I'll have to check my notes...he was also close to Himself, though, so might be a good choice for info on the entertainment.."I couldn't remember anything about where Lyle was from. He's sort snuck into my radar without me noticing overly.
Linda wrote: "Kaycie wrote: "Linda wrote: "But one question - what's with all of Maranthe's sniffing?? "I took this to be a side-effect of his pretending to be a drug addict for his interviews at the half-way ..."
Wow yeah. There are a lot of sniffing references.
Linda wrote: This part actually had me thinking of AA as a comparison. That Marathe's wife is his AA. He didn't want to be with her, but he couldn't leave otherwise he would have no other choices (as he states himself). I actually underlined a bunch of lines in this section seeing Marathe's decision to marry his wife as a similar situation to an addict choosing to go to AA. .."Good linkage. I can see the comparison as well now that you've pointed it out.
Rosemary wrote: "There must be some connection between Bernard and John Wayne. I'm sure it's no coincidence."For sure!
Ami wrote: When I think of Avril, I picture Martha Stewert...Kill you with warm kindness seamlessly integrated with cold hair raising mannerisms. "I think Stepford Wives/Fatal Attraction -)
Nicola wrote: "There was a lot being unsaid here but it really reinforced that Hal is nobodys fool and that he loves his brother more than anyone else.But I have no idea what he is telling him to do."
I also didn't understand what Mario told Hal to do and was hoping someone would have figured it out.
I'm only 10 pages into this section now, so I am avoiding looking at the above discussion, but I just had to pop in to say... JOHN WAYNE??? I never would have guessed he was in on it! Mind blown.OK I'll come back when I finish the section :)
John wrote: "but I just had to pop in to say... JOHN WAYNE???":)
It's always the quiet ones John... ;-)I thought he was a bit off from the word go tbh. I wasn't that surprised.
OK, I think I just finished this section (page ~785 is the end, correct?)I got really excited when Marathe was infiltrating Ennett House. It felt like something huge was about to happen, but I guess he just left Ennett house and went to the Jazz club to call Steeply? Which led, of course, to Kate's current precarious position.
However, what about the cartridges at Ennett house? Pat told Johnette to preview them -- why did Marathe not pick up on that? If Johnette plays the Entertainment in Ennett House's living room, things are going to get a lot more complicated.
Following that train of thought, I can't help but wonder -- if Joelle viewed the entertainment, how would she be affected? If at all?
I was really intrigued that the F.L.Q. claims to have information on an antidote to the Entertainment.
Rosemary wrote: "There must be some connection between Bernard and John Wayne. I'm sure it's no coincidence."
I got the impression that Bernard was John's father? When Struck was plagiarizing the article (an article written by none other than Geoffery Day!!) the narrator took care to mention that Struck utterly failed to notice the connection.
Rosemary wrote: On another point, I hated that conversation where Pemulis is working on Hal to stop him coming off drugs completely. I saw an 'evil drug pusher' side of Pemulis in that section. "
I agree that Pemulis was being a bit of a jerk, but I didn't see it as "evil" -- it seemed like pretty typical teenage guy behavior. Peemster and Hal are closer to each other than to Axford, and Pemulis saw that not having Hal along would make the DMZ less fun. As far as his view that addiction can only be traded for another addiction -- yeah it's a pretty cynical idea, but not surprising with Pemulis' background.
BTW, I'm sure I'm not the only one who noticed that Hal's dream of screaming for help and having it come out as Ethel Merman songs was very similar to what occurred in the opening scene -- but maybe in reverse. I.E., in the year of Glad he was speaking on the inside but screaming on the outside.
"But one question - what's with all of Maranthe's sniffing?? "
I noticed the pretend sniffing early on as well, and I think that once it was described as something that is common among native French speakers? I could be misremembering that. Although -- this is very interesting -- I just discovered that Kate Gompert does it as well, on page 76!
Linda wrote: "I also didn't understand what Mario told Hal to do and was hoping someone would have figured it out."
I got the impression that it simply that he was talking about it. "The first step to solving your problem is admitting you have a problem", and all that. I could be wrong though.
I love Hal's discussions with Mario. Hal so easily bares his soul in these scenes. It's interesting and sweet how he relies on Mario in such a typical little-brother way, despite Mario's disabilities. It was also interesting that they discussed Orin for the first time in this scene.
Man, Avril is just completely inscrutable to me. She does not seem evil, but at the same time she is obviously very cold and calculating. I cannot fathom what's going on with her.
I liked that Hal came off as a know-it-all child at dinner...That seems fitting to me. Orin bores me to death in this section, to be quite honest. So self-absorbed.
