The Ghost Stories of Edith Wharton, by Edith Wharton

[Connie]

MR JONES

I saw some parallels in this story with Kerfol. (view spoiler)[Both have a controlling man who isolates a woman from society, resulting in heartbreaking loneliness. Mr Jones liked dominating women, even from the grave. Lady Jane was strong, and stood up to him. After reading what happened to the housekeeper, I felt fearful for Lady Jane at the end of the story. (hide spoiler)]

I agree with Brian that the setting and atmosphere work well for this type of story.

Cynda, the movie sounds like it would be fun to watch.

[Brian E]

As Connie points out,(view spoiler)[there are a lot of dominating males, be it husband, father or servant - in these stories. Women struggling with these men seems to be a recurring theme. (hide spoiler)]

[Cynda]

Connie, as I remember things, most movies with a household ghost are funny. This movie The Others was made to be spooky. That's what threw off the movie-watching audience. Well done.

[Sara, New School Classics]

I would also say Mr. Jones is the most straightforward ghost tale yet. This one can (view spoiler)[ not only haunt you, but become corporeal enough to strangle you. I'd be moving out. Wharton is so good at setting the stage...creepy old house. (hide spoiler)]

[Sara, New School Classics]

Pomegranate Seed would appear to have a twist on the theme Brian expressed above. It would seem (view spoiler)[that this poor man is caught between a couple of domineering women. Wonder which one he fears most, the living or the dead. (hide spoiler)]

[Terris]

Yes, I liked the "Mr. Jones" story. (view spoiler)[ And I wondered why the servants would be so afraid of him, since we knew he was probably a ghost. Well, I guess we found out when Mrs. Clemm was found dead! A punishment for disobeying Mr. Jones! (hide spoiler)]
And, Yes, Cynda, I noticed the dusty footprints of the ghost! Haha! ;)

[Cynda]

Revisiting "Mr Jones"

It may be that Mr Parks does not realize (view spoiler)[ how much time has passed, that the need for keeping the secret no longer exists. (hide spoiler)]

[Sara, New School Classics]

Yes, I imagine eternity would feel a bit different than our mortal time frame. It would seem that Mr. Jones had a charge to fulfill and never stopped fulfilling it.

[Terris]

Sara wrote: "Yes, I imagine eternity would feel a bit different than our mortal time frame. It would seem that Mr. Jones had a charge to fulfill and never stopped fulfilling it."

Yes, he is a very devoted employee, even if he has to commit murder from beyond the grave to keep his commitment ;)

[Sara, New School Classics]

Perhaps this wasn't his first murder, Terri. We don't know what happened to the poor wife who was confined.

[Terris]

Sara wrote: "Perhaps this wasn't his first murder, Terri. We don't know what happened to the poor wife who was confined."

I'm guessing this was not his first murder.

[Connie]

POMEGRANATE SEED

Elsie, the first wife, seems to be controlling Kenneth. (view spoiler)[ Charlotte is living in a house that was decorated by Elsie and has remained unchanged, a constant reminder of the first wife. Elsie's last letter had the faint words "mine" and "come." When Kenneth does not return home, we wonder if Elsie has drawn him to the underworld, the land of the dead.

The title gives a hint about what happened at the end of the story. In the Persephone myth, Hades abducted Persephone and gave her six pomegranate seeds to eat. She was not allowed to to leave the underworld for part of the year because she had eaten the food of the underworld. (hide spoiler)]

[Cynda]

Based on Connie's just previous comment and the myth, Kenneth may be back home with Charlotte in 6 months, alternating bewteen the wives.

[Sara, New School Classics]

Like Persephone, Kenneth is pulled between the two worlds and the two wives. Perhaps the letters are the seeds. Had he not read them would he have been free of Elsie? They certainly plant in his mind the idea that she was not gone and calling to him.

[Connie]

Cynda wrote: "Based on Connie's just previous comment and the myth, Kenneth may be back home with Charlotte in 6 months, alternating bewteen the wives."

I was wondering about that, Cynda. We have to use our imagination at the end of the story.

[Connie]

Sara wrote: "Like Persephone, Kenneth is pulled between the two worlds and the two wives. Perhaps the letters are the seeds. Had he not read them would he have been free of Elsie? They certainly plant in his mi..."

Yes, Kenneth certainly seems to be pulled between the two women. It was very upsetting to him every time Elsie contacted him, and she was on his mind for days every time he received a letter. The letters were preventing him from totally moving on in his life and new marriage.

[Sara, New School Classics]

The Looking Glass

Yet another kind of ghost (view spoiler)[ an invented one. And yet, with the ending, we do actually have the dead sort of speaking from beyond the grave in the last letter. Lot of questions under the surface here. Do the once beautiful have a harder time of old age than those of us who were never beautiful in the first place, or is this just a lonely woman looking back on her life without seeing any real substance there? If she had had the great love, would she feel less that with losing her beauty she loses everything? What are the motivations of Cora, after all she does stand to profit from this scheme even though she insists she is doing it to keep anyone else from "taking" the lady? Is she a reliable narrator? (hide spoiler)]

[Brian E]

#9 POMEGRANATE SEEDS

This is the longest story so far. I like how the stories are organized and I was surprised to find that they are nearly in chronological order, written between 1902 and 1937.
I appreciate the explanation of the mythological story behind the title as it enabled me to better understand the story - or at least interpret it in a different manner than if I was ignorant of the mythology.
(view spoiler)[ some comments
1) the longer story let Wharton try to make a more psychological study. I'd say the story reminded me of Rebecca, but that may be the case with any suspense story with a dead first wife. Charlotte is much more in control than the more naive Rebecca narrator.
2) I too had the impression that Kenneth went off to join his first wife in the afterlife, since he had read the letter/seed. But, unlike under a more strict analogy with the Persephone myth that Sara points out, I don't see him as returning for the half of each year. I mean this isn't Greek mythology with gods, its the real world with human ghosts. Hah! (hide spoiler)]

[Connie]

Brian, I was thinking of Rebecca when I was reading Pomegranate Seed too. In both books, the second wife feels overshadowed by the first wife, they are living in the first wife's house, and their husbands refuse to talk about the first wife. As you said, Charlotte is not as naive as the second wife in Rebecca. Kenneth loves both wives, but only one wife is loved in Rebecca.

Rebecca is one of my five-star books. Maybe that's why Pomegranate Seed is one of my favorites in Wharton's book.

[Sara, New School Classics]

Maybe he just went to reassure her, but those dead wives can be pesky and perhaps she won't allow him to come back. Persephone was granted half a year in Hades and half on earth, but then she had Demeter threatening to stop the bounty of the earth with no growing season if her daughter wasn't returned and Zeus to step in and arbitrate for her.

[Sara, New School Classics]

I can see the parallels in Rebecca, competing with a memory is always more difficult than with a flesh and blood rival.

[Connie]

I wonder how much influence Kenneth's mother would have with the underworld :-)

[Sara, New School Classics]

LOL. Not much. 😥

[Brian E]

#10 THE LOOKING GLASS
Some comments
(view spoiler)[1. This is the most non-ghost story of the bunch. However, it does deal more with peoples belief in the supernatural and ghosts than any other story. The fascination with the occult by many in the early 20th century has been portrayed elsewhere, including by Wharton herself in her earlier 1927 novel Twilight Sleep.
2. Both the occult aspect and Clingsland's quest to retain beauty make this much more of a satirical story than a ghost story, not that Wharton can't do both.
3. Cora's self-defensive and maybe self-deceptive motives make her a fairly unreliable narrator and is another aspect of Wharton's satire.
4. The illustration with Clingsland's two faces, Harry and the Titanic is one of my favorite illustrations, especially the faces.
5. To answer Sara, of course, people whose facial beauty is a most valued asset face (no pun) aging and losing their most valued asset with more trepidation than those who don't. My mom was that way. (hide spoiler)]

[Sara, New School Classics]

Brian's spoiler:

(view spoiler)[1. So right, the least ghostly and yet so true to the obsession that a large part of society showed for the supernatural. I found this quite interesting after reading the short autobiographical note at the end of the book.

2-3. I saw it as satirical as well, particularly as Cora seemed to me to be too self-serving to be relied on to have told us the entire truth. In the end of the story she gets $100 to say masses for the dead boy, but you will note only a portion of that is given to the priest, and she fails to mention what portion.

4. Oooh, I loved that one too. Particularly the contrast between the two faces of Mrs. Clingsland.

5. You would think the beautiful people would be grateful to have once had that kind of experience, but I find they are too often mourning the loss rather than savoring the memory. I was always amazed at people like Audrey Hepburn, who seemed never to take any notice of their astounding good looks and a bit embarrassed that others made much of them. My sister, who was a stunner, seemed to dread old age in a way that I never did. (hide spoiler)]

[Brian E]

#11 ALL SOULS
I'm posting on the last story ahead of time because I may not be able to be on my computer starting tomorrow morning - I will read posts on my phone but may not be posting. As I seem unable to just shut up and listen, here's my two cents:
(view spoiler)[ 1) This is just a so-so story. Yes there is a ghost, but the cousin's analysis of a ghost/witch leading a coven is not that rewarding of a solution to me. Of course there is a history of witchcraft in New England (this is Connecticut and my Boston-based brother maintains Connecticut is not really New England - sorry Connie) but the existence of living folk as witches is not as interesting to me -even with a ghost/witch as leader.
2) However, considering the story in the context of Wharton's life makes it more interesting. It is the last story completed by Wharton, written 6 months before she died in 1937. Critics point that the story shows Wharton's fear of being left alone. Three of her valued servants had died or left in 1933. She dedicated her memoir of that year, A Backward Glance, to "the friends who every year on All Soul's Night come and sit with me by the fire."
3) Based on the dedication, it is interesting that the dead soul visiting in All Souls is coming to take the protagonist's helper/servants away from her when she needs them.
4) I find the story more interesting as a reflection on Wharton's attitudes as a 76 year old facing death and loneliness than as a story itself. (hide spoiler)]

[Sara, New School Classics]

Love your analysis, Brian, and I for one am delighted you did not "shut up and listen". All your thoughts have added a lot of enjoyment to my reading of these stories.

I'm a little surprised to find that Conn. is not a part of New England, lol, but what do I know, I'm a Southern girl.

Very interesting to consider this in the context of when it was written and the influence that this stage in life may have had on the story itself.

(view spoiler)[I thought the witch angle was a little surprising, but that is because I had not expected it in the middle of a ghost story, even though witches might well be expected to have contact with spirits. It also hit me that this woman was a tower of strength in the face of earthly challenges, pulling herself around with that bad leg, but cowed to the point of giving up her home when she believes it is the supernatural she is dealing with.

I gave the story one extra point for the delightful name of our distressed lady. (hide spoiler)]

[Cynda]

"The Looking Glass"

For deeper understanding of "The Looking Glass," I also read a summary of "The Jolly Corner" by Henry James which is sometimes read as a companion piece to "The Looking Glass". (view spoiler)[ By reading both stories, I am reminded that Time marches on for everyone. That for Mrs. Clingsland time is shown through her fading beauty. Lost hopes and dreams disappear with Time. But the heart and imagination live outside of Time and continue to hope and dream even when possiblity fades. (hide spoiler)]

[Sara, New School Classics]

Excellent take away, Cynda. There is certainly that element of lost hopes and dreams and what we do with ourselves when we know our best days are past and the heart and imagination are all that are left to us.

[Cynda]

"All Saints"

(view spoiler)[Good story. Wish Edith Wharton had dated as Madri Gras, Carnival, Halloween. Not All Saints' Day. The story is good. And the servants covered well. (hide spoiler)]

[Terris]

I enjoyed "The Looking Glass" but agree with you all that it was the least ghost-y story of the bunch.
I also concur that the loss of beauty is more difficult for the "beautiful." If that is all that they live on, then when that is gone, they feel like they are gone as well, as seen in Mrs. Clingsland.
At the end I enjoyed thinking that possibly Harry's ghost might have inhabited the "poor young man" and that the letter might really have been from Mrs. Clingsland's young lover. But.... wishful thinking, I guess :)

[Cynda]

I half thought that Terris about last letter

[Connie]

Brian wrote: "#11 ALL SOULS
I'm posting on the last story ahead of time because I may not be able to be on my computer starting tomorrow morning - I will read posts on my phone but may not be posting. As I seem..."

I'm back online after 3+ days of having the power off when the hurricane took down trees and power lines on Tuesday. I had to laugh about Brian's brother saying that Connecticut wasn't really part of New England. He's probably thinking of the western part of the state (where I spent my childhood) where people take the train into jobs in New York City, get NY stations on their TVs and radios, and cheer on the New York Yankees. But the rest of the state feels very much a part of New England, and goes to Boston for the "big city experience."

[Connie]

Thank you, Sara, for suggesting this book for a buddy read. Everyone's interesting comments led to a wonderful discussion.

[Sara, New School Classics]

Connie--so sorry you had so much trouble from the storm. I've been there and it is NOT fun.

I have thoroughly enjoyed reading with you all. Made the stories much more fun and I always appreciate the way others make me think of things in a direction I would miss when reading alone. Thanks to everyone for joining in!

[Cynda]

Connie, glad you are safe.

Enjoyed it Sara.

[Annette]

I couldn't keep up with everyone because I have so many things I am reading simultaneously but I have really appreciated the comments.

One thing that I noticed in The Lady Maid's Bell was that (view spoiler)[the aunt, Mrs. Railton, who got the position for Hartley as the lady's maid was not mentioned in conjunction with the funeral. I am sure travel was difficult but I found that to be a missing detail. (hide spoiler)]

I likely will have more oddities later :)

[Sara, New School Classics]

Good catch, Annette.

[Terris]

Sara wrote: "Connie--so sorry you had so much trouble from the storm. I've been there and it is NOT fun.

I have thoroughly enjoyed reading with you all. Made the stories much more fun and I always appreciate ..."

Yes, Sara, thanks for introducing these stories to us! It really was fun hearing everyone's thoughts. I got a lot more out of each story than I would have otherwise :)

[Brian E]

Connie wrote: " I had to laugh about Brian's brother saying that Connecticut wasn't really part of New England. He's probably thinking of the western part of the state (where I spent my childhood) where people take the train into jobs in New York City, get NY stations on their TVs and radios, and cheer on the New York Yankees. But the rest of the state feels very much a part of New England, and goes to Boston for the "big city experience."

My brother teaches art at Salem State but spent so many years in advertising art that he tends to identify people by certain 'labels' - for ease of selling products to them.
I had asked him the day before I posted about what differentiated people from different New England states. When he said that about Connecticut people I had to laugh -while he claims his off-hand comments about people are wittingly insightful I tell him that he's often just biased and snide. I do think he meant that Conn people are thought to be, like you said, more ritzy suburban New Yorkers than New Englanders. To a midwesterner like me, its definitely New England.

I'm back online occasionally now, and want to join in the general appreciation for the great discussion here. which, as everyone says, added to our individual enjoyment, My only regret is not rating the stories individually as I actually read them - I'm forgetting what I thought already.

[Annette]

So... I've now finished The Ghost Stories of Edith Wharton which is the kindle edition. My favorite was The Fullness of Life . It's more of an afterlife story than a ghost story. I found a copy of this particular story online here . I personally did not enjoy reading the ones I was missing online so I've ordered a copy the Scribner edition to finish up the rest of the Buddy Read list.

[Sara, New School Classics]

Since The Fullness of Life wasn't part of the book I owned, I have not read that one, Annette. I will definitely pop over and read it when I have some down time. Can never miss with a Wharton!

[Terris]

Today I saw this article online about Edith Wharton's summer home in the Berkshires. And it has so many beautiful pictures of the grounds and also inside the home!! Some of it reminded me of the descriptions she puts into her stories. I think this place may have been her inspiration!
I thought you all would like to see this, since we have been through quite a bit with Edith recently ;)

https://habituallychic.luxury/2020/08...

[Sara, New School Classics]

Wow, what a beautiful place. I could die for that library! I reminds me of Hillwood, the home of Marjorie Merriweather Post. It amazes me to think these were not even their "main" homes, these were their country houses. I am blown away by the gardens.

[Cynda]

Wow. Big as a 19th century resort hotel, even bigger.

[Brian E]

Cynda wrote: "Wow.."

I agree. Just wow.
I knew Wharton was rich but when I consider that this is only the "summer home"...
Thanks for the view, Terris. As you say, we have all spent a lot of time with Edith recently. So she should invite us over. There's room for all of us.

[Terris]

I know! I thought it was unbelievable!! I'd love to visit!

[Terris]

Brian wrote: "Cynda wrote: "Wow.."

I agree. Just wow.
I knew Wharton was rich but when I consider that this is only the "summer home"...
Thanks for the view, Terris. As you say, we have all spent a lot of time..."

Haha! Absolutely! ;)