Outlander Series discussion
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Just finished Echo in the Bone (spoilers included)
Renee wrote: "Hahaha, it's not my expectations that make me feel this way. I feel betrayed as a reader. Yes, a writer can do what they want. BUT you don't play with your readers. You don't give them half a book...."
felt a little like reader abuse alright! LOL
felt a little like reader abuse alright! LOL
Leslie wrote: "I don't have it in front of me right now but, I believe the grandmother said that he had Ian's spirit and to not tell Sun Elk - not that he was his "spirtual son". When Ian tells Emily that "this ..."I am so glad that someone brought up this point, about Herman and Vermin. I couldn't figure out the relevance of this encounter, unless it is a set up for something in the next book.
Tresa wrote: "does anyone know the significance of the 2 girls that Ian takes to the brothel to become maids?"I am so glad that someone brought up this point, about Herman and Vermin. I couldn't figure out the relevance of this encounter, unless it is a set up for something in the next book.
Frani wrote: "Leslie wrote: "I don't have it in front of me right now but, I believe the grandmother said that he had Ian's spirit and to not tell Sun Elk - not that he was his "spirtual son". When Ian tells Em..."OOPS. I meant this comment for another post. Got it wrong.
All of a sudden Dottie want's to convert to a Quaker?I thought she and John Grey traveled to find Henry and see Wille, all the sudden she has it for Danzell. A lot of loose ends but this struck me, did I miss something about/between Danzell and Dorothea.
Apparently she and Denzel hooked up back in England, while he was studying (or something). This little Outlander universe is ruled by the law of six degrees of seperation, except it's more like two or three degrees of seperation.
Paul wrote: "All of a sudden Dottie want's to convert to a Quaker?I thought she and John Grey traveled to find Henry and see Wille, all the sudden she has it for Danzell. A lot of loose ends but this struck m..."
oh No that was totally cover I'll be it vaguely and in a span of several different chapeters... But in there it says how Lord john was trying to figure out what Dottie and William were up to saying they wanted to marry eachother...they did this because they knew the only way her father would let her possibly go to America was under the pretence of Marring William of whom her father would aprove and as for Denzell Rachel at one point talking about how she felt about Ian inquired as to if he had ever fallen in love with someone he shouldn't have and he told her yes once when he was in England which it turns out was Dottie. And Dottie and William were simply pretending to be in love so that they could get her to America to see Denzell
Finished the book I enjoyed it very much I have a problem with Claire and Lord John it really makes no sense, Claire & Jamie shared this great love/romance/passion, I get why she married LJ, but to have sex with him so soon after she thought Jamie died, I don't get it. If her a yr had went by or maybe even 6 mths but days???? You can tell me she was drunk they were distraught I don't care no excuse for what she done I am sure Jamie will forgive her in the next book, I will pretend in my mind it was a dream LJ had :)...
I was surprised at first when Claire ended up with Lord John. It does make some sense though. Both had such intense feelings for him. By sharing their love with each other it was as if it kindled his existence for both of them. Marrying Lord John was sensible as well. Claire is getting older. Trying to survive in that world was going to be tough. Jaime even wanted her to go back through the stones if he should die. He was afraid of her being killed because of her being the White Witch. I just wish the story would see them grow old, like 90.
That's too old i think. I wouldn't want to see Jaime and Claire loose that vitality you know. Jaime's catlike/warrior ways and Claire's beautuful, ruthless hands no longer able to heal. That would be heartbreaking. Although i'm sure jaime wouldn't mind so long as he has Claire, and Claire has him. But it would be sort of sad to see that part of them dwindle because time takes their gifts away.
Alicia, I am a baby boomer not Medicare yet but I think I am getting better in other ways. I see Claire becoming the true White Witch and Jaime the mentor to young men. Most importantly I don't want them to cease in their existence. Maybe that is why the time travel aspect is so unique. It seems to keep mortals alive so much longer.
I think DG would really prove herself as a writer if she actually kept them alive into old age and kept their relatonship significant. I have to believe it's possible or we'd all be jumping off a bridge at 40!
I myself have been cursed in this life not only with dire impatience, but obsessive compulsion when it comes to certain books, detailing the live's of certain characters. I only picked up the series. after constant prodding from fellow 'Outlander' friends, 4 monthes ago. I was blessed with the ability, to finish one, put it down, stand up, stretch my legs, do a jig, whatever... then sit down immediatly to start the next in the series. Echo in the Bone came out, and although I tried desperatly to not fall victim to online spoilers, and willing tales spewed bt people whom allready read it... (yah right... who am I kidding... I wanted to know)...Anyways, after hearing how Echo literally leaves you hanging and stranded, coupled with the knowledge that DG averages a book every 2-3 years, and knowing my faults ( impatience, and obsession), I have decided to put down the series.. absoloutley refusing to read neither ABOSAA, Or Echo... until the next book is due to release... *sigh*.
Shell wrote: "I myself have been cursed in this life not only with dire impatience, but obsessive compulsion when it comes to certain books, detailing the live's of certain characters. I only picked up the serie..."You have will power. I could NEVER do that with Outlander. I am however doing that with my Black dagger Brotherhood series. I have one more to read before Lover Mine comes out and I am waiting until just before to start Lover Avenged. So I understand your thinking but I have no restraint when it comes to Jamie! I am just weak for that man!
Kelly;, Normally I don't either... But I've heard the rumors about the ending of 'Echo', and I am fully awae of my limitations... I just simply can not do that to myself... lol. I've read The Black Dagger Brotherhood too... I enjoyed them, but foubd the constant brand name dropping tedious.
yes, sometimes her writing can read like propaganda. My heart has been broken over Echo. I actually have not read the entire thing I read the beginning and end and really skimmed over the middle. I will probably wait until the next book comes out to give it a full read.
I just finished "Echo" and got a bit hung up on chapter 21 where Roger tells Bree that he found a newspaper clipping about the fire, and the date had changed, which made him question his belief in predestination. What did the date change to? Was this explained when Claire ran into Tom Christie? Or when Jamie said he was going to talk to someone at the Wilmington Gazette? Did I miss something? Is what Roger found a re-print to the one him and Bree found, which caused them to go back in the first place? To be honest, it already took me awhile to figure out the whole issue with the dates...As for the ending, I also found myself wondering how it could end so fast, and not believing that it was over...
If I remember correctly, Tom Christie tells Claire that he was sad having heard that they had died in the fire and there was no report in the papers, so he wrote one. This would have been published way after the event and the first report, which was a few months earlier - and also with invented information!Like everyone else, I found myself frustrated with having so many cliffhangers at the end of the book.
I AM GOING TO READ THE NEXT ONE, DIANA! No need for this contrivance!
Anita wrote: "I just finished "Echo" and got a bit hung up on chapter 21 where Roger tells Bree that he found a newspaper clipping about the fire, and the date had changed, which made him question his belief in ..."The change of date is "explained" on the very last page of ABOSAA.
Just listened to the audio version while driving and came across the part about Claire and Jamie making plans to go back to scotland. They are outside watching over the bodies of Mrs.Bug and Grannie .... Claire is afraid of going to Scotland, even though she knows Jamie wont end up there because Frank put the grave stone there to get her to go back to him but what if by doing that he is bringing to pass some sort of self-fulfilling prophecy? and they do end up there.... Just a thought.
Erin wrote: "Just listened to the audio version while driving and came across the part about Claire and Jamie making plans to go back to scotland. They are outside watching over the bodies of Mrs.Bug and Granni..."I think Jamie and Claire end up in Scotland in the end as well. Jem tells Brianna that Jamie told him he'd like to be buried at Lallybroch...up on the hill because he liked to be up high. The same section of the book also mentions that Mandy wanted to go up there to talk to Jamie.
Lori wrote: "Anita wrote: "I just finished "Echo" and got a bit hung up on chapter 21 where Roger tells Bree that he found a newspaper clipping about the fire, and the date had changed, which made him question ..."I just went back and had another look - the news clipping that Roger and Bree found in DOA was a newspaper clipping from February 1776 that said that the fire took place in January 1776. In ABOSAA we find out that it should have read December 1776, but was the publishing date wrong too? In "Echo" Claire finds out that Tom Christie is the one who placed the notice (page 189), I guess in February 1777? Also in "Echo" Roger went to look for the clipping again, showed Bree (page 225), and they see that the "date changed" - did it change to December 1776 - and if so, who changed it?
Crystalmk wrote: "Renee wrote: "The point is that LJ is a gay man. He's gay. It doesn't make sense for him to be getting drunk and bonking Claire. They couldn't just sit around talking about Jamie and drinking? If h..."Finally FINISHED-- so I can read all the older posts. I'm o.k. with the sleeping part, but I thought the whole "Jamie is dead thing" was kind of flat, since we, of course, know that he is NOT dead. This could have been the tearjerker of all tearjerkers, I got slightly choked up at Claire's vision of him swimming alone in the ocean, trying not to give up, but how can you work up a good set of tears when we know it's simply a case of misunderstanding.
Anita wrote: "Lori wrote: "Anita wrote: "I just finished "Echo" and got a bit hung up on chapter 21 where Roger tells Bree that he found a newspaper clipping about the fire, and the date had changed, which made ..."I'm not sure what date it showed when Roger found the clipping.
Maybe the printer just got lucky and found the slug for December?
trish wrote: "Kelly wrote: "If Claire is pregnant I may have to give up for goodness sake she is 50 something in Echo. she is actually 62 at the end of Echo (although I have a hard time thinking of her that..."
I've been pondering Claire's age myself-- but for a different reason. Since I am a bit older than many of people here (I think) AND I started reading the series at the beginning, when Outlander was first published, Claire and I were roughly the same age. She was 27 and I was 29. Then DIA came out and suddenly she was almost 50 and I was 32ish. (50, I must confess seemed VERY old to me.) Then the rest of the books have inched along every 3-4 years and Claire and I have both gotten older-- although the gap is narrowing, she is still older than me by 12 years. I don't know why that has always bothered me, since we learned about the missing 20 years in flashbacks, but it does... it should bother Claire as well, aging 20 years between books. LOL
Just finished An Echo in the Bone today! I loved it. I purchased the book as soon as it came out but wouldn't read until the winter break started. I loved how the previous characters were reintroduced and how they are all involved with each other. I can't wait for the next book. I am ready to go to Scotland on the next plane!!!Who do you think Rachel will be with?
Linda wrote: "trish wrote: "Kelly wrote: "If Claire is pregnant I may have to give up for goodness sake she is 50 something in Echo. she is actually 62 at the end of Echo (although I have a hard time thi..."
I figured this to be correct but then again, I am not sure if we can use Roger's and Bree's time frame in Echo as a basis. It would seem logical but she is too energetic for 62, she has much more enegry than I do and I am 54! I would also refer to Willie's age and if so she would be more around 55 or 56. Time travel is hard to measure!
Claire is definitely in her 60's.She meets Jamie in 1743 at the age of 27(or so) and Echo ends in 1778, so 27+35=62.
Lori wrote: "Claire is definitely in her 60's.She meets Jamie in 1743 at the age of 27(or so) and Echo ends in 1778, so 27+35=62. "
Yes, but when I read the sex scenes, I picture a couple of 30 years olds. Just have to. Especially the post-baby-delivery barn scene.
Heather wrote: "Lori wrote: "Claire is definitely in her 60's.She meets Jamie in 1743 at the age of 27(or so) and Echo ends in 1778, so 27+35=62. "
Yes, but when I read the sex scenes, I picture a couple of 3..."
Same here. I read Claire and Jamie and think mid to late 30's maybe early 40's but not in the mid 60's. It's hard to imagine them that old and living the life that they do with such life and vibrance.
Anita wrote: "Lori wrote: "Anita wrote: "I just finished "Echo" and got a bit hung up on chapter 21 where Roger tells Bree that he found a newspaper clipping about the fire, and the date had changed, which made ..."Elisha here. Usually i don't comment; I just read the discussions every night after work, but I have been wondering about this myself. I think that it doesn't tell us what the date changed to in Echo because maybe that is how Jamie and Claire will end up dying in the end. They would be together like the couple in the cave in DIA. Maybe. I can't wait to find out.
Elisha wrote: "Anita wrote: "Lori wrote: "Anita wrote: "I just finished "Echo" and got a bit hung up on chapter 21 where Roger tells Bree that he found a newspaper clipping about the fire, and the date had change..."The date didn't change that drastically, I don't believe, so I don't think it gives us any clues as to when Jamie and Claire will eventually die.
According to Diana, we have another 20 years or so before that happens.
Erin wrote: "Heather wrote: "Lori wrote: "Claire is definitely in her 60's.She meets Jamie in 1743 at the age of 27(or so) and Echo ends in 1778, so 27+35=62. "
Yes, but when I read the sex scenes, I picture ..."
I think all of the sex keeps them young. ;)
Elisha wrote: "Anita wrote: "Lori wrote: "Anita wrote: "I just finished "Echo" and got a bit hung up on chapter 21 where Roger tells Bree that he found a newspaper clipping about the fire, and the date had change..."Well Mandy is 3/4 in Echo and she was almost a year in the last so I'm thinking only 3/4 years have past maybe.... I thought it said in the beginning that it was 1979/80
Heather wrote: "Lori wrote: "Claire is definitely in her 60's.She meets Jamie in 1743 at the age of 27(or so) and Echo ends in 1778, so 27+35=62. "
Yes, but when I read the sex scenes, I picture a couple of 3..."
I don't know about you guys, but I just can't imagine them older. They'll always be young in my mind!
Well, Claire may be in her 60's, but that doesn't mean she can't still be gorgeous. Look at Lauren Hutton and Catherine Deneuve!As for Jamie, I can handle picturing him as a 55 year old...then again, that could be because I dig older guys.
The hubby is turning 55 this year. ;)
Alex wrote: "Heather wrote: "Lori wrote: "Claire is definitely in her 60's.She meets Jamie in 1743 at the age of 27(or so) and Echo ends in 1778, so 27+35=62. "
Yes, but when I read the sex scenes, I pictu..."
Oh me too. There's no way I can picture them being so passionate and the same age as my parents... eewwwww. I'm 36, and I imagine them being older than me, but never past 45. It's just me. When I read the books again in 20 years, I am sure I will picture them at their proper age, and have no issues with it!
Eva wrote: "Alex wrote: "Heather wrote: "Lori wrote: "Claire is definitely in her 60's.She meets Jamie in 1743 at the age of 27(or so) and Echo ends in 1778, so 27+35=62. "
Yes, but when I read the sex sc..."
I agree. I think I picture them at the age I'm most comfortable with. When I re-read them in 20 years, I'll be right on target!
I've only just finished Echo, and I have to say I'm disappointed and feel ripped off. This book should have been titled "An Echo in the Bone...a Lord John and William Ransome book". After getting my copy of Echo on release day in September, I thought I'd be happily reading non stop, but that was not the case. I struggled to even get into this book. The more I read, the more it felt like a chore. I even put it aside to read other books...which I never do.
I went back to it reluctantly, and now that I actually finished I'm ssoooooo disappointed. Where were Jamie and Claire....they were hardly there at all. I don't care much for LJG and William Ransome, and their characters completely took over. The book also felt choppy, with so many incomplete thoughts and stories I would find myself flipping back pages to see if I'd missed something or missed a page completely. DG seemed to skim through areas that deserved more. Jamie is dead and Claire seemed to hardly notice, except for pretending to think about suicide? Marrying LJG I could understand, but not consumating the marriage. Claire's devotion to Jamie would not have let her do that, so soon, with LJG of all people.
Was there no editor on this book? It could have been hacked to bits and we readers would not have missed much.
Awe Chris, I totally feel for you...that was exactly my reaction..I ranted and raved and cried and felt totally disillustioned for three months. It does get better after a while though..the shock eases off after sometime. I have been re-reading/listening on audio the series again and that is helping to deal with the disappointment. I am looking forward to book eight as there are great story lines to be followed up on...I'm just sorry that Echo ended leaving a 'bad taste in my mouth'.
As for the Editors...Diana, like Claire, has a mind of her own..and it is afterall her story. :-)
As for the Editors...Diana, like Claire, has a mind of her own..and it is afterall her story. :-)
Just finished Echo and i have to say i loved it. Like most i wish i could run to the store and buy the next book but i cannot. I loved Young Ian's Character for a while but this book made him a close 3rd to J & C. I feel he is due a great love that will love him for himself and truely understand him. So love Rachel too!! I don't have anything bad to say about Echo. I guess it did feel rushed at the end but a world where J & C are apart would be that. So i guess i'm off to find something to read... wish me luck :)
Leea,thank you for... loving this book. It's refreshing (after reading a few posts saying otherwise) to see I'm not the only one that loves Ian and Rachel. I reluctantly agree that the end felt rushed, but there has to be a reason, right? Like, I don't know, a chapter on the next book, will be about Lord John et Jamie's conversation about John knowing Claire intimately, etc. ; another about William's ranting ; another about Ian and Rachel (of course) ; another about Bree and family, etc. There's so much possibilities. Maybe after "all" the pages Diana wrote, she had to stop somewhere, had to make a division between books, had to come to a conclusion...
And good luck finding something else to read. ;) I always had a tough time to find a book that would interest me after The Outlander & co. A book that would make me travel as much... mmmmm... depends. Other books that make our minds travel in other countries, scenery, years, etc. are hard to come across of...
Good day to you... A
Just one quick spoiler request pls.... when do Roger & Bree go back to the 'present' time? Is it in Echo, or at the end of ABOSAA? I'm not sure what happens with Jemmy but I'll wait to find out! I'm just wondering which book the parting is in.
Eva wrote: "Just one quick spoiler request pls.... when do Roger & Bree go back to the 'present' time? Is it in Echo, or at the end of ABOSAA? I'm not sure what happens with Jemmy but I'll wait to find out! I'..."Towards the end of ABOSAA.
Lori wrote: "Eva wrote: "Just one quick spoiler request pls.... when do Roger & Bree go back to the 'present' time? Is it in Echo, or at the end of ABOSAA? I'm not sure what happens with Jemmy but I'll wait to ..."Thanks Lori!
Hey Alex, So glad you liked Echo as much as i did :) I agree with you about the different chapters that would be great!! I thought i would feel like something is missing at night without them to read about but at the end of Echo i know that it will all be okay... jamie's alive and Jem is too!! I do wonder what happened to Roger and Buck. I do hope that Bree, Jem and Amanda go back to find Roger because i love it with them all at the ridge. My bookclub is reading The Help by Katheryn Stockett and i have to say it's good!! No time travel but i have to admit Outlander was the first Romance book i've ever read. Well take care.
I read the entire series in just under 4 weeks (I didn't get much sleep!) and was so excited when I started this book... and what a disappointment it turned out to be! I was NOT happy with all of the changing point of views. I think the occasional change is very good and informative but the bottom line is that I am reading these books for Jamie and Claire. Even spending so much time "with" Roger/Bree/Ian gets a little old for me when they are taking time away from Jamie and Claire. I ended up skimming a lot of William and Lord John's sections as well. William so does not do his biological father justice- I am highly unimpressed with him. I read one of the Lord John series and thought it was awful. I loved Lord John in the Outlander series until AEITB and now he is annoying me. I could not believe when him and Claire had sex and while I have confidence that DG will resolve that it was extremely frustrating!
Anyways- bottom line is that I just did not like this book. However, that has not stopped me from reading the first 3 four times each and the others twice ;) There is just nothing like Outlander (the first book). I am totally ruined for all other series, now!
i loved it although it is frustrating to have to wait to find out what's happening. All I hope is that we dont get a repeat of the estrangement between Jamie and Clair as in Dragnfly. I've never been able to reread that one - too fraught. I dont think it will happen that way though. Jamie and Claire have such an understanding between them by now I'm sure they'll solve any issues over the LJG sleepover.
I love the thees and thous, it gives Rachel a unique and very individualistic character, is very much her own person and strong...I am really going to like her as a partner for Ian and I really hope DG does not drop her way of speaking it is a part of who she is....as much as Claire's cursing is at times.