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Just finished Echo in the Bone (spoilers included)
message 51:
by
ChristinaRae
(new)
Oct 03, 2009 08:43AM
You know what? We should all re-read it slowly and then come back in a few weeks and see what we think.
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I was working at Walmart, unloading the paperbacks onto the shelves. I unloaded Outlander, what a thick book, I thought, then read the back, and put it aside as it seemed to me that I would enjoy this tome. Started reading it that evening when I got home. I promise, I could not put it down. when I had to go to work the next day, I couldn't wait to get back home and read it. I have always believed in the theory of 'time travel', prophesying; and this book made sense, if you travel to the past, you knew the future, hence you would be a prophet. Anyway, when I got to the end of it, I was saddened. About 2 years later, I thought I would like a hardcover of this book for my library shelf. It was then that I realized, to my udder joy, that there were 2 more books that had been written after Outlander. Of course I had to buy them and read. After, I hoped that there would be more. By this time we are into the 90's. PC's are becoming a household item, the internet via modem is how people are communicating. Found some information that totally surprised me. There is another book. It is going to become a double trilogy. I am totally psyched. (we are in the late 90's by now I think) I get the fourth book and finish it up in days! NOW I know there is another one out there and check at least monthly to find something about it. Found Diana's website. Needless to say, I waited with anticipation for the next 2 books. Now I know Echo will be released in September 09. (I had recently, June, bought the Kindle as a BDay gift to myself) I ordered all 6 books to download on the Kindle and 'traveled' for the next 2 months back. I started at the beginning, and read, and read, and read. Realized some things I had not remembered from the first read so many years ago, and thought this was a good thing since Echo is due in September. I pre-ordered from Amazon, nothing of Kindle book, but wanted the hardcover anywho.I got an email stating that Echo had shipped. ohhhhhh could I wait???? Went to see if Kindle version was available, YES, downloaded and started to read right away.
I was totally into this book. I have to say, I may be one of few that totally loved the book. I loved the back and forth of characters and settings. Claire is a sexual woman at any age, I gathered through all of the books, and she rather enjoyed sex. Now the lovemaking she and Jamie partook in, WOW! REMEMBER, Jamie, while in the cave at Lallybroch, did let (oh damn, forgot her name, she was the widow of the creepy guy who beat his kid and Jenny took him in) make love to him, to help him heal. Now, why can't we see that is what LJ did for himself and for Claire? Helping the healing? I think LJ made love to Claire BECAUSE of the LOVE he knew she and Jamie had together. I THINK it was his way of getting a taste of that kind of love? Remember, He has not had that kind of love since Hector? Claire knew there was a bond between Jamie and LJ, she had contemplated suicide, maybe this was her sexual suicide?
I am fascinated that Buck traveled FORWARD in time! The first of the travelers that made a first trip INTO THE FUTURE. Oh the possibilities!!!
Rob Cameron is linked to Jocasta, somehow! She was a Cameron 3 times remember and had 3 daughters. She never was completely sure if all 3 were dead. Jamie Fraser does have the gift of 'taibhsear' Claire the gift of TT, so mayhaps Rob may be the keeper of the gold? Maybe he traveled forward? Or like Claire and Jamie, One of Jocasta's daughters found a way to get letters to her manytimes relative Rob, to find the gold? Mayhaps because of her hatred toward the third Cameron husband for leaving them for dead? The possibilities are so very endless.
As you can see, I am very much entangled in this story and I recommend to many.
Because LORD JOHM IS GAY! I feel like I'm at a Barry Manilow concert watching these women swoon over him and hold up 'I can't smile without you' signs. Yes, that really happened and my cousin poked my arm and said, "Don't they know he's gay?". Therefore it makes absolutely no sense that LJ would seek physical solace from Claire. Now, Claire seeking physical solace from maybe an old male friend, who was straight, I could maybe understand. She 'was' drunk too. But...like I said they should have just gotten drunker together and shared Jamie memories instead of sex. It wouldn't have made sense for Claire to have sex with another woman in her grief, would it? Well, that's the equivalent for LJ.Sorry, I forgot who said it but yes, it did feel as if DG had lost the 'voices' of Claire and the gang and was still very into Lord John.
The other books are so descriptive of Claire's feelings that she shares in the book with us. She may not show them to the world, but we always knew how she felt. And that is very lacking in this book. My God, she has to take off Jamie's finger, and then she believes him lost at sea! But we get...barely a thing of how she's feeling.
I didn't want the desperation, but I didn't want 'flat' either. I wanted to be pulled into their lives, minds and hearts as I have been in all the other books and that did not happen until very late in Echo and it was over too soon with a feeling of incompleteness.
I want Diana to take her good time with this next book and give Claire and Jamie back to us as we know them. And leave Lord John to be given to us in small doses. Because I'm sure, after maybe being very angry Jamie WILL understand the marriage bit.
Now, let's just hope Claire isn't pregnant! ;) Ba dum!
--
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'JOHN'. Pardon my typo.--
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Ah, yes, I was thinking that Rob Cameron might have some ties to the past or time travel. Forgot about the maybe-dead Cameron girls. I didn't view LJ as helping her heal at all. It was his 'cockstand does not discriminate' comment. It seemed to me he was the most willing to use sex [with Claire:] to relieve his grief. I think any person, regardless of sexual orientation, able to take purely physical pleasure out of a sexual experience if they are distraught enough. I don't think Claire will be pregnant; she's in her sixties.
If Claire is pregnant I may have to give up for goodness sake she is 50 something in Echo. Yes Jamie did sleep with Rob McNabb's mother BUT it had been years not just 2 months!
I agree Claire's voice was a bit lost in this book. And DG does favor LJG he has his own series!
I just hope that when Jamie and Claire do come to terms with the whole marriage/sex with LJ it will be a scene that I remember for a long time.
ChristinaRae, LJ said that the next day, when Claire spanked the monkey. I'm quite sure even Claire would not be able to change LJ's preferences grief or no. Especially when they were sober. Just didn't make sense. And what the heck was Claire thinking? I mean, come on.--
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Hahaha, Kelly, just thought I'd throw that out there. I mean, we never thought she be banging LJ either. Did we?--
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Renee wrote: "Hahaha, Kelly, just thought I'd throw that out there. I mean, we never thought she be banging LJ either. Did we?--
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So true.
You know, LJ is probably bisexual! He was married, he did perform the 'duty'. He did mention to Claire something along those lines as he 'confessed' his liking of her body, wanting to view it after. He may prefer men, but he goes both ways. Claire had her reasons, per DG, and we will find them out in the next book. Come on, we all have done something completely out of character once in our lives. (If you haven't, your life isn't over yet) This may be Claire's. Hormones, grief, drink, they all do things to one's head! I was intrigued by the many twists and turns of this book, compared to others. I screamed when Arch was hinting at killing Rollo! I still wonder what is up with our new character, Rob Cameron. Why the interest in the old ruins on the hill? His ex taking the kid and going to France? was it? Maybe she and the child went through the stones, not France? He knows more than the tellin in Echo. AND his last name is Cameron.I want to know more about William B! Why did he travel to the future? Why him and no one else in the tale thus far? I think there is more to this then meets the eye, or my fascination with it may totally have me 'steering' the wrong direction.
I think she has to have her outline drawn to what is going on, and lets face it, MOST of us thought after the 3rd book it was done, then after the 6th, but it continues.
Like I posted before, I think I may be one of the few that actually enjoyed this book more then the others.
Yes, I also wonder about Buck traveling forwards...Maybe it's because his mother came from the future, so if she'd come back to her normal time he would have come with her. I have a feeling people can't just travel into the future at random.
Emily wrote: "Yes, I also wonder about Buck traveling forwards...Maybe it's because his mother came from the future, so if she'd come back to her normal time he would have come with her. I have a feeling people ..."Ohhhhhhh, I like that! Who traveled back then and then came back, with a wee lad? Has to be a Cameron, maybe one of Jocasta's daughters? No, she didn't come from the future, she was born there, maybe the husband and after the daughter died, her husband took Rob back to his own time. hmmmmm, Like Jem and Mandy...... I like the way you are a thinkin Emily.
So. I had this thought the other day. Fergus' mother was (allegedly) a Beauchamp. We keep getting hints of Claire wondering if the stranger (percy) is her distant relative because he is using his wifes name (claire doesnt know this). What if FERGUS is Claire's relative????!!! At first I was thinking maybe Fergus and Marsali were grands of Claire's....but they couldn't since it isn't his last name.
Anyway...it was intriguing to me and keeps me from being upset about the lack of content in the book.
BTW, Renee, you said it perfectly about Claire...maybe she does have trouble expressing but we are in her head! Its first person people! If she is feeling, we should know it!
Renee wrote: "ChristinaRae, LJ said that the next day, when Claire spanked the monkey. I'm quite sure even Claire would not be able to change LJ's preferences grief or no. Especially when they were sober. Just d..."I don't think she changed his preferences, really; I think he was willing to use her as a sexual partner and companion in grief and overlook the fact that she wasn't his preference (sexually; she may have been his preference as mourning buddy). We've all heard of or known people who sleep with someone they aren't really excited about just to get some, right?
Renee - didn't mean that I am the only one "with a life" at all! Just sorry that I, like I'm sure everyone is on here, am so busy that I have to just find little moments here and there to read. But, really, that drags it out longer, and I know what a let-down it will be when I'm finished. For instance, yesterday I got called to work at 11:00. When I got there the girl told me I prob could have waited till 12:30 or so, and she hoped I had brought a book or something! I was so upset! I kept thinking how I could be spending my morning catching up on Jamie and Claire! Cjhays
Kelly wrote: "If Claire is pregnant I may have to give up for goodness sake she is 50 something in Echo. she is actually 62 at the end of Echo (although I have a hard time thinking of her that old.....so she better not be pregnant!)
she 1st came through the stones in 1743 at the age of 27
it is now 1778
Ok, just finished this today....I was disappointed from page 1....at first I thought it was me...maybe I wasn't paying enough attention to follow the story, but I have never had that problem with her series before. Like most of you, I have read and re-read these books SO MANY times! Also, I am generally irked when authors have to go back and explain/remind readers about something from a previous book, but I just could not remember the circumstances surrounding most of the characters she was talking about...I was completely lost in chapter one....Way too much time spent on William- not an interesting character IMHO; likewise LJG and all the "intrigue" with Percy ...it just seemed to eat up space. And how believable is it that Fergus is the legitimate son of a wealthy French family? DUMB! The battle scenes were boring.....just all around ho-hum....It felt to me like she threw a bunch of random threads in and jumbled them about.....For instance, Jamie sees Brianna and William meet in Chapter 1, for god's sake, but later in the book it states that Jamie hasn't seen William since he was 12......Hello? SHE NEEDS A NEW EDITOR...So sad to say this series has really declined. Outlander is my fav book of all time and am sad that the characters have devolved in this manner.
**Also mad about Claire/LJG....totally didn't need to happen**
Ah, you're right. He did see William after that!I'm inclined to agree that whoever is reading over Diana's manuscripts is slipping. And the whole Lord John and Bree having a talk before he lent her a boat thing was totally left out. When Claire said 'you know what we are', I was thinking, 'Americans?'. I would like to have had that conversation in this book if we're going to flashback.
I love this series and I have the utmost respect for Diana's great creativity and writing style, but I'm very disappointed in Echo.
Maybe she needs an addicted Outlander reader/readers to scour the manuscript before publishing? I mean, if we don't get it there's something wrong.
CJ-You've got quite a slog ahead of you, so don't be panicked. I highly recommend the book after about 555 pages. I don't know whether it should have been shorter or longer. More time for all those wonderful emotions of Claire and Jamie and Ian etc, etc.
ChristinaRae-I just can't wrap my mind around a devoutly gay man wanting sex with a woman no matter what the circumstances. I don't think LJ is bi. He says he doesn't sleep with women if he can help it. If he were bi he'd be checking women out as well occasionally. No, I'm sorry. It just didn't fit either character.
--
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Very good points Tresa...I could have wrote your post as well as my own. Those are things I thought, too. Through the first of the book I kept thinking I wasn't paying enough attention or that she was going to reveal something during the book to clue me in on LJG affairs (concerning Percy) but no such luck and that is when I concluded that she was crossing a storyline over from the other series.Funny how you can continue to be devoted to an author/book/series even when you are supremely disappointed in them, as I am with this one. I will follow to the bitter end, if it turns out to be so....I hope fan opinions weigh heavily while she writes the 8th.
I subscribe to her blog "Voyage of the Artemis" and she posted the other day that the book was debuting as #2 on the NYT list. And that of course the series isn't over and that she won't have a single minute to work on the next book before November when her book tour winds down...and then that she has to work on The Outlandish Companion II and Jamie's parents backstory for a few novellas that she is writing.
I say FORGET all of that and write the story until it is correct!
Tresa wrote: "Ok, just finished this today....I was disappointed from page 1....at first I thought it was me...maybe I wasn't paying enough attention to follow the story, but I have never had that problem with h..."Maybe he meant he hadn't "seen" William as in talked to him. When William was with his sister Jamie was only watching they never interact.
I think the point is that I never had to ask "maybe she meant" or "could it be" questions about the other books. I never questioned anything from the first 6. The closest I ever came was simply feeling like Claire and co. couldn't catch a break from the abductions/battling enemies. But it always made sense. I never questioned the need or whether it "could" happen. This is the first time the book made me raise my eyebrows and say "whhhaaa???"
I was frusterated by the LJ stuff, I feel a little like I've been tricked into reading that series now to figure out what's going on, BUT if it means more awesome books from the Outlander world, than I'll be grateful. I never read them before because the political stuff bores me a little, but I'm trying one of them now.The bottom line for me is I loved being back in that world, so I loved the book. And even though I was left gasping at the end and couldn't believe that was it, I was delighted because that means the series isn't over.
I agree with the person who said we should read it again slowly and then decide how we feel. I personally rushed through those last pages. They might make more sense when I read them at a normal rate.
Emily wrote: "Yes, I also wonder about Buck traveling forwards...Maybe it's because his mother came from the future, so if she'd come back to her normal time he would have come with her. I have a feeling people ..."Buck is William Buckleigh MacKenzie.....he is the product of Gellis Duncan and Dougal MacKenzie's affair.
Gellis never came back to her normal time....she died in that cave in the islands...when Claire hit her with an axe.
Claire,Roger,Bree,Jem and Mandy have all traveled to the future...but all purposefully
But, I don't want to read the Lord John books. I really don't. He's amusing in small bits, but...I'm just not that intrigued by him.And I don't really have to go back and read Echo. I know what I think from the first read. I don't want to labor through Lord John again. I'll reread bits, if it's the subject of a question or discussion. But, see...I could never say that about the previous books. I'd reread them at the drop of a hat. They're delicious.
I think it's just that Diana gave us six amazing books and this one just did not come up to those. For me, anyway. I WAS hoping.
Of course I'm still a fan and will eagerly, eagerly anticipate the next book. And I'll buy it. God willing. I guess I can give Diana a pass on one bitty stinkeroo for all the great stories she's given us. And for giving us Jamie. AND young Ian. And so many great characters to love.
--
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Emily wrote: "Yes, I also wonder about Buck traveling forwards...Maybe it's because his mother came from the future, so if she'd come back to her normal time he would have come with her. I have a feeling people ..."Sure they can....it's fiction!
Well, I was at Diana's blog and basically said the same things I've said here. I would not say them here and not say them to Diana. That would be two-faced and I'm pretty straightforward. So is she. :) Anywho here's her blog response to me."Dear Renee--
The fact that the book may not be EXACTLY what you think you wanted does not mean I rushed it. I assure you, it was crafted with extreme care, to do exactly what it does.
I don't blame you or anyone else for wanting something I've done before--most writers _do_ do the same thing over and over again--but I've _never_ done the same thing from one book to another. I don't really want to do something I've already done. The result of this normally _is_ that when a new book comes out, there's an outcry from a small percentage of readers, who are Seriously Bent that I didn't do X. Well...you know....sorry, but the books of the series are each unique in tone, style, theme, and approach.
If you don't happen to like Lord John, I suppose you could skip those sections containing him--but he _is_ a Rather Important part of Jamie and Claire's lives, as well as of the plot--as much as Young Ian, William, or Roger and Brianna are.
As for what Claire and Jamie are thinking, their thoughts are on every page where they are--and so are the answers to the questions you've asked. (You might perhaps read it again?)
October 4, 2009 2:04 AM"
Hahaha, I think I've just been called 'seriously bent'. Heeheeheehee. Touche' Diana! Or maybe that was 'get bent'? :)
Well, what do you guys think of what Diana has to say? Is this just a case of her doing the book differently? I didn't think so. She's done other narrators before. I quite enjoyed those books.
Anyway, really cool that she told me off. Well, in her own way. I respect that. I like her pluck. On the other hand, I'm pretty plucky myself. >:O
--
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Oh dear. It seems to me that she didn't quite take in your meaning? Having not read your blog comment its hard to tell. With the exception of the LJ encounter I only wished we had more detail from Claire's grief...surely she isn't saying there wasn't any? Because in the book it seems to me that it went this way: death announcement (no reaction that we are told of), marriage proposal/wedding, suicidal thoughts, grief sex, resurection, big sigh of relief, end of book! I was looking for a couple of chapters in there of Claire's thought processes.Lastly, my only other "major" problem is the dedication to a storyline that we couldn't understand based on the previous books in THIS series. As fans we have waited 4 years for this book and I honestly think it a bit unfeeling to thrust that on us without even a hint that we maybe should read LJ's series or we'd be lost. I might still feel that it was not a good thing to do, but I would have appreciated the heads up. After all, I'm not contesting LJ's presence in the book, just the content of his motives that left me lost.
But yeah, cool that she answered you, and I am mildly reassured that she thinks she knows what she's doing! Lol!
Yes, I should have posted my post. So, here it is."Renee said...
Diana, as someone who has read through the Outlander series at least 10 times and has bought the books for friend and relatives because I loved them so, I beg you to take your time in writing the next book in the series!
Please give us more tim with Jamie and Claire and Ian and Rachel and less time with Lord John.
Put me back into Claire and Jamie's mind and heart. Do not feel rushed.
I have to admit to you that I was a bit disappointed with Echo.
Take your time and give us the Jamie and Claire that we love. I want to know their hearts and minds. I just plain want more Jamie and Claire and MUCH less Lord John.
They seem almost strangers to me in Echo, and I wish for the next book to correct that. I miss knowing what their thoughts are and what's in their hearts.
In the meantime, I'll start reading the series again and wait for your next installment.
Oh, and please tell me WHY Ian loves Rachel. And WHY Claire wanted to have sex with a gay man. And WHY LJ wanted her. But tell me in the book. Thank you, Diana.
October 4, 2009 12:56 AM"
Okay, so that was it. Was I brutal or something? Didn't mean to be.
--
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No not brutal but you were first with criticism. As the messenger, you were proverbially shot, lol!So I went to her blog and found your comment and hers plus the p.s. With the direct link to the ongoing conversation at her writers and readers site. Great stuff over there and lots of familiar names commenting (people she thanked in her acknowledements). I guess I am going to have to sign up over there so I can comment directly for the next few years. That is where she posts her excerpts. I've read them there before, back when this books loose title was "The Sons Of Liberty" which she obv changed or postponed, but I've never gotten in on the discussion. Might be fun to do it this time around!
Haha, great way to put it. But, it's not a mortal wound.I'm signed up over there, but cannot post. I don't know if it's by browser or what, but I can't post. My friend had to sign me up.
But I can post here. And really, if I have to ask then doesn't that mean something's wrong? Should I have to go to a forum for clarification?
I'm a strong believer in the writer's responsibility to make something clear to the reader. I fancy that I have enough intelligence to read a book and know when something is 'not' being conveyed to me sufficiently. For six books I've had that understanding of what was happening and how the characters felt. But this book failed at that for me.
And it is a disappointment after the wait. I suppose I'll go back and start on Outlander again since I have to have my Jamie and Claire fix.
--
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Renee wrote: "Haha, great way to put it. But, it's not a mortal wound.I'm signed up over there, but cannot post. I don't know if it's by browser or what, but I can't post. My friend had to sign me up.
But I..."
I agree with you. I am forever pushing Outlander and the series on all my friends. I always say the first 3 books are the Sublime. If you are an Outlander crazy fanatic read 4,5,and 6. I will have reservations about recommending Echo.
I was very disappointed in the book, and pretty much for the same reasons everyone else has said. The book is badly in need of editing, IMHO much of the first 2/3 could be lost and the storyline wouldn't suffer and then there would have been time to continue the story where she left us hanging. As for Lord John, I didn't appreciate so much of him and his "people" and I'm a bit miffed that she presumed to dump them on us without warning. If they were meant to be part of the J&C story they should have been included and/or the LJ books written as part of the series. Perhaps an effort to sell more of the LJ books?
As for LJ and Claire having sex? Ewwwwwwww. I don't buy it, she didn't seem to grieve at all and then that?
I definitely had trouble with the loose ends. It was almost as if the book abruptly ended in the middle of the story. Plus their were so many story lines going on that were not developed enough. Almost too many story lines for one book. Claire was acting as a spy? She mentioned considering it but we never found out she was passing information until she was in danger of being arrested for it. It was alomost as though DG threw in the spying to have a reason for Claire to marry LJ. I still don't get how Dottie and Dr. Hunter met and the whole story line about her contriving to get to America in order to marry him. How would she know where to find him when she got to America? Did she know that William knew the hunters and how did she know that? How could DG leave Jem in the tunnel and Roger on his way to the past? What does Percival Wainwright Beauchamp have to do with any of the rest of the story?
I also agree that we didn't see enough of Claire's emotions and turmoil over Jamie's death. Yes she is a strong person and doesn't always show her emotions but, she is the first person narrator of these parts of the book.
I still really enjoyed the book. I liked the Lord John books and even enjoyed that storyline as well. I just wish some parts were either more developed or left out. I also wish we had fewer cliffhangers at the end. Even still I can't wait for the next one!
I have been reading Diana's responses at the other site and I am convinced that she _did_do it all on purpose this way- whether or not I think she should have- its better to know it was intentional. She also said she left big cliffhangers because after ABOSAA so many readers complained that it was so tidily wrapped up they were afraid it was the end. She was "danged if anyone would worry about there being more story" after reading this one.Another thing she said was that we would learn more about the dead french girl in the graphic novel...sigh...
If she intended to make Jamie and Claire, the two main characters, seem like strangers then she succeeded. Although that makes no sense. And bore me with Lord John, then she succeeded. Although THAT makes no sense. But I think making your readers disappointed in a book is not a good strategy. The cliffhangers? Gimme one and I'll know there's a next book.Oh, and I'm not getting that dang graphic novel in order to find out about this girl. Tell me in these books or leave it out!
It's like those DVD's they sell of the some movie you've seen and loved, but they tack on really great extras so that you have to buy the DVD because you want to see the extras. I've always resented that.
Besides, I'm not really fond of the graphic novel.
Geez, should books be this complicated? Graphic novels and other spin-offs, characters from the spin-offs being brought into the series. Just tell me the darn story. That's why I buy a book.
I'm sorry ladies, but this is nonsense.
--
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Is Swiftest of Lizards Ian's biological son? That's what it seemed to me based on the scene, but I didn't remember that Emily could have been pregnant when he left, timeline-wise. What did you guys think?
Crystalmk wrote: "I have been reading Diana's responses at the other site and I am convinced that she _did_do it all on purpose this way- whether or not I think she should have- its better to know it was intentional..."She's probably feeling damned if you do and damned if you don't right about now.
Cliffhangers aside, I still have problems with the constant switching POV's and disjointed writing. It just didn't flow and it just wasn't as much fun - although I did love J&C's return to Lallybroch.
I can see for marketing reasons why you would want to tie in the LJ books to urge people to buy those. I can also see how artistically interesting it is to have this giant story involving all of these people whose lives cross in and out. However one cliffhanger is enough to get me hooked on the next book. I have been hooked after each book! I don't like having supposed old information like the french girl suddenly introduced in book 7 and feeling very confused about why certain events were occurring. I have enjoyed all of DG books including the LJ books but, I really am not into graphic novels and don't want to get one just to find out about a seemingly out of place event that occurred in Echo.
Emily, there's a thread about Ian and son in the spoilers section under 'So...'.--
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trish wrote: "Kelly wrote: "If Claire is pregnant I may have to give up for goodness sake she is 50 something in Echo. she is actually 62 at the end of Echo (although I have a hard time thinking of her that..."
Jaime saw Brianna and William from the window.
Renee wrote: "If she intended to make Jamie and Claire, the two main characters, seem like strangers then she succeeded. Although that makes no sense. And bore me with Lord John, then she succeeded. Although THA..."He's Ian's "spirtual" son.
I didn't mention Ian in that quoted post.And what the heck is a 'spiritual' son anyway?
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no....'I' think he is actually Ian's son. The Indian lady told the boy that because that is how they think babies are made. A man's spirit overcomes the woman's. She is telling "Lizards" that he is the son of Ian's spirit...meaning made BY Ian.If you go back and read, the timeline is fine for this to have happened. She was sleeping with Ian after their daughter dies, had more miscarriages, kept trying, and all the while becoming distant and removing herself slowly from him, until the Mothers told Ian to go. He did...but obviously he left a little something behind that took. Emily immediately moved on with whats-his-face.
Renee wrote: "I didn't mention Ian in that quoted post.And what the heck is a 'spiritual' son anyway?
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Emily said that she was told that her son was Ian's spiritual son by her grandmother (?) and not to say anything to current husband. Emily couldn't stay pregnant by Ian because his seed didn't overpower her or something or other and then Claire said it was the blood RH.
I loved the book, although I felt it ended too quickly. Sure, some more insights into Claire’s despair would have made the sex scenes with LJG more believable. LJG does admit to being bi-sexual and Claire has always been a very sexual woman, therefore the understandable consolation to their shared grief would be to consummate their marriage of convenience in drunken despair. Remember they apologized to each other the next morning for not behaving “Gentlemanly” or “Ladylike”. Maybe LJG liked it enough to come back for more a few days later and Claire was willing to ablidge – not cheating, just coping. LJG has been a close friend of the family for years, so what the heck?!The Jenny/Claire disassociation does seem plausible. Jenny has never truly forgiven Claire for taking Jaime away. She doesn’t completely believe Claire’s time-travel story and is quick to hold a grudge. It will be interesting to see how DG molds that relationship in the next book.
I don't have it in front of me right now but, I believe the grandmother said that he had Ian's spirit and to not tell Sun Elk - not that he was his "spirtual son". When Ian tells Emily that "this one is mine to name", her face goes white and she looks from Ian to the boy and then Ian knew. He knew that he was his biological son and so did the grandmother.
does anyone know the significance of the 2 girls that Ian takes to the brothel to become maids?
No. I wondered about them. There must be some reason they were there. I just thought it odd that Jamie and Claire would approve of where Ian placed them. IF he told them. I don't recall whether he did or not.No doubt they'll be back to bite him in the arse. He accrues enemies like Jamie.
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Lady- Lord John never says he's bi-sexual and I don't believe that he is. He 'can' have sex with women, he's got the equipment. But he's never wanted to. Sounded like he went to a hooker before his first marriage, cause he said he 'tried it out in London', when he told Jamie he was going to get married and Jamie questioned him about his being able to be a husband.Naw, he's gay.
I'm hoping this book was some sort of dream sequence and Claire or someone wakes up and realizes it in the next book. Yah, that's what I'm going to tell myself for 'x' years until the next one.
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