Girl, Woman, Other - Chapter 5 & Whole Book

[Marc]

This thread is for discussing the last chapter and the book as a whole.

[Deirdre]

I loved this one. I've gotten used to the idea of a "plotless" novel somewhat begrudgingly as it gained in popularity in literary circles. That or the *very thin* plots used to hold up the neuroses of a generation (a la Sally Rooney, Ottessa Moshegh, or Jenny Offil - all of whom I respect). I've also read a lot of books that, instead of plot-as-scaffolding, use characters' lives as a different way to structure time. "Valentine" by Elizabeth Wetmore does this, so does "Hurricane Season" by Fernanda Melchor (which disturbed me so much I had nightmares!) I think that sometimes this creates too much distance between the reader and the ensemble of characters to have as deep of an emotional impact as the writer might want. However, I think that "Girl, Woman, Other" executes this scaffolding brilliantly so that what is essentially a "plotless" novel feels like it has real momentum.

[Franklinbadger]

It feels very dynamic for a "plotless" novel, doesn't it? I think, for me, it had a lot to do with gradually discovering the connections between the different characters, and the way my perception of certain characters changed when we saw them from another angle. I have to admit that the book tailed off slightly for me towards the end, but only compared to the brilliant middle chapters.

[Nat]

I agree, the way the lives of the characters evolved over time, as well as the different perspectives we saw them from (how they saw themselves at different points in their lives and how the other characters saw them) actually felt like an intricate plot. I thought the last chapters gave a sense of completeness in the way they offered more points of view of the characters and provided a common setting in which we could observe their interactions and compare them.

I loved the last lines of the novel, the way Evaristo described Penelope's complete and sudden transformation of thought and re-evaluation of her ideals upon learning about her identity and meeting her mother was masterful. I thought that the last chapter went further in asserting what I felt were the main themes of the novel: the integral role of black people in British history and society, the multifaceted lives of women of color of a range of ages backgrounds and their varied reactions to living in a society that marginalizes and rejects them in many ways. Overall, I feel that the novel gives a broad picture of what it means to be a black British woman and helps in countering stereotypes, a theme that is especially relevant today.

[Bretnie]

You all describe what I loved about this book in ways I'd been struggling to put into words.

I loved the party at the end that brought all the characters together. I did start to feel ready to be done by the last few stories, but once it was finished, I was sad to leave these women's lives.

[Sue]

I really enjoyed this book. I do think there were stories to be gathered from the interconnections between all the women (and some men) and also the stories across generations of women.

I loved, loved, loved the ending with Penelope and GG/Hattie/Harriet. This was foreshadowed a little bit - you could see the matching puzzle piece gaps in both of their stories. Plus when Morgan has GG do an Ancestry DNA evaluation, you can guess where it's going to end up.

I have to admit by the end I started to get confused about who was who, and what all their connections were.

[Marc]

I finished the book this morning and I had sort of forgotten Penelope's story/background, so I totally did not see the reunion coming. I'm sure this was obvious to most of you. At any rate, not only was it a major surprise to me, but I found myself in tears after finishing the book (I mean, like snot running out my nose tears; not just a single drop rolling down the cheek thing). Apparently, I was quite touched by this denouement. My wife woke up shortly thereafter and thought I was sick since I was using a tissue to blow my nose. I tried to summarize the story to her and started crying again. It was rather comical. (It's not uncommon for me to cry watching movies, but it's pretty rare that I cry reading books.)

Will post more about the book soon, but I quite obviously loved the ending. Like many of you, I found the connections and interwoven themes incredibly well done in this book.

[Bretnie]

Marc wrote: "I finished the book this morning and I had sort of forgotten Penelope's story/background, so I totally did not see the reunion coming. I'm sure this was obvious to most of you. At any rate, not onl..."

Always a sign of a good book when it has that kind of impact!

[Emmeline]

It was a nice ending. I saw it foreshadowed but there were so many threads I wasn't sure who would be given the last word and was glad that reunion was.

Though I thought the two historical characters were the weakest overall in the book.

[Bretnie]

Emily wrote: "It was a nice ending. I saw it foreshadowed but there were so many threads I wasn't sure who would be given the last word and was glad that reunion was.

Though I thought the two historical charact..."

I'm a little embarrassed I don't remember who the historical characters were. Or I didn't realize any of them were based on real people. Emily, can you remind me which were historical?

[Emmeline]

I guess I saw Hattie as a historical character as much of her story took place when she was a teenager in the ... thirties? And wasn't there a chapter about her mother, or am I imagining things? I read it back in March and it´s starting to go a bit fuzzy. I remember thinking at the time that the writing style, the poetry, worked wonderfully for the contemporary characters but that it jarred a bit with me for the historical ones.

[Bretnie]

Emily wrote: "I guess I saw Hattie as a historical character as much of her story took place when she was a teenager in the ... thirties? And wasn't there a chapter about her mother, or am I imagining things? I ..."

Ha, sorry, I was thinking historical in the sense that they existed in real life! Never mind! :)

[Emmeline]

Bretnie wrote: "Emily wrote: "I guess I saw Hattie as a historical character as much of her story took place when she was a teenager in the ... thirties? And wasn't there a chapter about her mother, or am I imagin..."

Oh! Yes, it did look like that, sorry!

[Marc]

How did you all feel about the way Evaristo plays with stereotypes in this book? I think in a lesser writer, it could have gone wrong in many, many ways.

Did you find yourself assuming certain things about characters as they were portrayed or surprised by elements about their personalities?

[Pamela]

Just finished this and really enjoyed it. I think Evaristo created well rounded characters and connected their lives in a convincing way. I did find the ending was foreshadowed in both Penelope's and Hattie's stories so it was expected but it was quite nicely done (a bit too sentimental for my taste, but it didn't spoil my enjoyment of the book).

I liked the smart way Evaristo played with words and the humour. I think there were elements of stereotypes, but these were often flagged up by the characters themselves, so they became part of a character rather than the whole.

[Emmeline]

I think she avoided the problem of stereotypes nicely by making everyone a bit larger than life. Amma and Dominique know exactly the way they strike people, Yazz is sent up along with her friends even as you empathize her. My favourite moment of this is the part where Megan/Morgan admits to herself that even her girlfriend finds her a bit much on Twitter (although otherwise I found Morgan and girlfriend's courtship a bit tiresome).

[PattyMacDotComma]

I absolutely loved this one! First, I have to admit I'm fond of short stories, and if they are inter-connected (like Olive Kitteridge), all the better. In this case, I enjoyed how Evaristo grouped her families and generations, so that we got a sense of the variety of women who came to England as well as those who are there now.

There's quite a difference between some of the generations, and it was fun watching Penelope change from her racist upbringing to joy at finding out she actually belonged to somebody, and she didn't give a hoot what colour that somebody was.

Don't you wish her adoptive parents could have seen that?

I did write a review, if anyone's interested.
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[Bretnie]

I'm loving everyone's thoughts, both here and in the other sections. One of the things that really stood out to me and that has stayed with me since I read it last year, is having a whole book with female stories. That sounds so obvious, but I love what the book aims to do, and I think it does it well.

The book has such a different feel than other novels with a female protagonist or that tackles feminist ideas or female perspective. It's such a wonderful compilation of many wonderful stories about women, all told with different lenses about what makes them who they are.

We all affect each other and life is made up of these interconnected ties and history, but I found it so interesting to deliver that message via primarily women.

[Marc]

In addition to the number of female characters, I think the different feel you mention, Bretnie, is because the writing celebrates these characters. In a recent interview I read with Evaristo, she mentioned something about how if there's a female lead or a black main character, the book is described sometimes as political. But the same doesn't hold true for novels with a white lead or all white characters---it's not even mentioned and no one bats an eye.

I think it's Roland who says something about the kind of critical double standard where any minority writing is expected to speak for the whole minority demographic; whereas mainstream/majority artists just get to make art.

Evaristo seems like quite the activist, but her politics and agenda never seem too overt (the story never suffers, I didn't feel like I was being preached to, etc.). But yet her art really serves an activist role; e.g., introducing readers to trans issues and almost having a kind of meta-activism (where Morgan is talking about adopting this new persona and others like her grandma trying to adjust to new pronouns and such at the same time many readers are doing the very same thing with this character as they read; I'm not necessarily referring to members in this group as most of you seem to read diversely).

I thought the intersectional issues were quite fascinating, as well---mostly, this has been presented to to me in the past in terms of a white/black feminist split or a wealthy/poor feminist division, but Evaristo manages go make these characters both individuals and part of a collective. They have their own issues and prejudices (Carole's near-denial of her blackness; Shirley's shift from ideal educator to jaded I-dream-of-enacting-my-own-school-shooting) and a shared struggle. These are issues anyone who joins a group faces, but it's not a dynamic often handled well, or at all, in many fictional instances.

Now that I'm writing, what it makes me think of is something from Carmen Maria Machado's In the Dream House: A Memoir: She talks about minority groups knowing they've been "accepted" when they're allowed to make mistakes and those mistakes are treated as errors of individuals and not affirmation that a whole subgroup holds trait X, Y, or Z. Evaristo lets her characters be incredibly human---they're not trying to be some sort of perfect feminist or ideal lesbian or career idol. They're multifaceted and those facets not only change over time but change as we see those facets through other characters and the connections.

We haven't really talked too much about the use of humor in this book... Did you all find aspects of it funny? Did you feel humor was employed well (just right, not enough, etc.)?

[PattyMacDotComma]

Marc wrote: "In addition to the number of female characters, I think the different feel you mention, Bretnie, is because the writing celebrates these characters. In a recent interview I read with Evaristo, she ..."

I think the humour helped hold everything together, Marc. Some of the situations were so desperate (Dominique in America, Carole after the rape), that there needed to be something to offset them. In my review, I quoted the passage about two-year-old Yazz being allowed to wear whatever she wanted and marching down the street in her tutu and other bits of a very colourful, mixed ensemble, much to the amusement of her mother and the raised eyebrows of other people.

I like the comment you mentioned about knowing you've been accepted when you're allowed to make a mistake. The same goes for being the only woman in a meeting with men, as many women will confirm.

That's something I particularly appreciated about the book as a whole. There is a lot about these characters that is universal. The parent-child relationships, lovers, friends, co-workers, exes. If everything were true only of women or only of women of colour, this would have had very narrow appeal. As it is, I think any reader could find someone to identify with.

[Marc]

PattyMacDotComma wrote: "There is a lot about these characters that is universal. "
Yes! Evaristo seems to really tap into their humanity and create a wonderful opportunity for all manner of readers to identify in different ways (as you pointed out). I'm glad you enjoyed this one so much and also appreciated the humor.

Hattie's reaction to Morgan's new identity/vocab seemed like the type of stereotypical reaction JK Rowling gets virtually stoned for on Twitter. All that only to point out how very culturally relevant this book seems on many fronts at this point in history.

It is still remarkable to me how "light" and "upbeat" the text reads despite some incredibly dark and depressing experiences.