Girl, Woman, Other - Chapters 3 and 4

[Marc]

We'll use this thread to discuss chapters 3 and 4.

[Sue]

I'm partway into chapter 4.

I loved Shirley/Winsome/Penelope in chapter 3. Especially how their views of each other and relationships with each other changed so much over time. I loved the Shirley and Penelope ended up as friends.

I have to admit I can't relate very well to Megan/Morgan. Every time I see "they" or "their" I find myself wondering who else besides Morgan is included there? I realize these pronouns are emerging, but very confusing.

I'm hoping that Morgan grows on me as I finish chapter 4.

My book is due back at the library tomorrow, so I'll definitely finish soon. It's an e-book, so it returns itself when it's ready - nice when I'm finished already, less nice when I'm racing to finish!

[Bretnie]

Sue wrote: "I'm partway into chapter 4.

I loved Shirley/Winsome/Penelope in chapter 3. Especially how their views of each other and relationships with each other changed so much over time. I loved the Shirley..."

Sue, is yours the kind you can turn the wifi off? If it's not the fire version, you can turn the wifi off and keep the book til you're done. :)

[Bretnie]

One thing that emerged for me as we got farther through the book - the history of racism in the U.K. and how pervasive is still is. I was a little embarrassed that I was so naive in its history. I always thought the U.S. cornered the market.

[Sue]

I lived in the UK for about 3 years in the 90's and was a little shocked at some of the very casual racism, and some not so casual.

And not just for people of color. I encountered some ugly comments about Italians, Irish and other's not considered quite up to snuff. I mentioned once that my grandmother was Irish. Total silence - you could have heard a pin drop. Then after a moment one person said "You're American so it's OK" and there was a collective exhale from the group. But those same people were careful to not speak poorly (or at all) about the Irish in my presence from that point on-ward.

I'm not claiming I was a victim of discrimination (the complete opposite as an American actually), but I was shocked at the openness of some of the comments made about "others".

[Jan]

That is truly sad, Sue. I do hope that's changed since you were there.

[Emmeline]

I've also found the UK very racist. I think the thing surprising to me, as a Canadian, was the openness of the racism. I'm not naive and I know these attitudes are everywhere but it was surprising to have a taxi driver complaining about this and that ethnic group before I'd even made it from the airport to the city centre.

Fun fact: In a migration class in my master's, they taught us that the least integrated immigrant community in London is actually the Japanese.

[Marc]

You get an odd but telling perspective on this from watching sports in other countries. Opposing fans will hurl bananas on to the field at black players, chant racist taunts, etc. Seems worse in Italy and Spain, but also happens in England (see The damning list of racist incidents which marred football in 2019).

I don't have my copy of the book at hand right this moment, but there is a job interview scene for a department store sales job (despite the "caring" nuns having groomed the character for work as a maid) where the man doing the interview flat out says he can't hire her because the customers will not like the sight of a black employee on the sales floor. Seemed fairly indicative of the overt racism Emily and Sue mentioned.

[Pamela]

I enjoyed Chapter 3 - was so pleased to see Shirley's perspective after the way Carole and LaTisha spoke about her. Didn't like Winsome much, a brave portrayal of female sexuality but a bit disturbing too.

Love Chapter 4 - nice to see the narrative moving outside of London to experiences in other parts of the UK, and back into the past too.

[Sue]

Bretnie wrote: "Sue, is yours the kind you can turn the wifi off? If it's not the fire version, you can turn the wifi off and keep the book til you're done. :)"

Hi Bretnie - I just now saw your comment from earlier. I don't know if my kindle wifi can be turned off or not. I'll definitely look into that for future reference! Thanks!