June Book Discussion

[Prince William Public Libraries]

New York 1907. Gifted physician Genevieve Summerford must help Eliza Miner clear her name as the murderer of another doctor. The case proves to be much more complicated than Genevieve thought and soon finds herself looking just as guilty.

[Angela]

Hello everyone! I am here.

[Angela]

Just a reminder--in case the notifications are slow it might be better to update your web page once in a while to make sure you get the most recent comments.

[Gwyn]

Gwyn here....really enjoyed this book, though I often wished there had been a more skillful editor at work on it. With every new piece of information discovered, Genevieve reviewed everything that had happened, sometimes from times before the novel began. Thatr got tedious, but I learned to ignore it.

[Angela]

Hi Gwyn. Yes I agree. And for some reason I really couldn't get into it for the first 200 pages or so, until Genevieve went to the ball. Then things started rolling.

[Angela]

I like the historical tidbits dropped in here and there--Hoffman's Drops, which were apparently very popular and contained ether, the note about Johns Hopkins not letting women into the medical school until a $500,000 donation from was made by some female physicians.

[Tim]

I enjoyed it too. I found it a bit different than a lot of these amateur detective novels, in that Genna (gonna use that, since I can't spell her full name, haha) was much more a stand-in for the reader, since she didn't figure ANYTHING out! Okay, I guess she figured out who Joy was, but as for solving the mysteries, she was pretty much off the mark the whole time.

About the only part that didn't work for me was the multiple personalities stuff. Seemed too much out of nowhere, but besides that, I liked the rest.

[Gwyn]

Agreed, Angela. Most of the ruminating was the first part of the book, the action in the second. I was interested in the protrayals of the early psychiatrists and their first steps on identifying Multiple personalities and the effects of childhood abuse.

[Angela]

I have never read a mystery that had so many convincing suspects--- first Eliza, then perhaps the couple who had adopted a baby and was now going bankrupt), then Charles, then Lucille, then Lucille's servant, then one of the alternate personalities, and then Eliza's mother. Quite a lot! Hi Tim!

[Mary]

Sorry I'm late. I enjoyed the book as well, and like the historical and medical information.

I was a little confused about Huntington's chorea. Did Eliza have it or not? They seemed to reach the conclusion that she did not, yet her father and daughter did?

[Gwyn]

The miltiple personalities did seem like a curve bal, but consider the times -- it would have been the last thing that most psychiatrists would have considered. So , not so out there, really

[Angela]

There was that one scene in the book where she jumps out of the carriage to save the boys from the policeman, and also the very beginning of the book where she is looking at the young beggars--I assume this is all reaction to her guilt over her brother's death.

[Angela]

Do you think Mrs. Braun was sane? Did you find her actions understandable?

[Angela]

Hi Mary. I think maybe the father had it but they though he was a drunk. Maybe he was both.

[Angela]

And the daughter, but not Eliza.

[Mary]

I don't know exactly what word is best for Mrs. Braun's actions. I guess I have some understanding without, of course, condoning them. But looking at things in those times, it was devastating for a woman to be left on her own with a child and no husband or means of support.

[Tim]

Mary wrote: "I was a little confused about Huntington's chorea. Did Eliza have it or not?"

It seemed to be left open, she didn't show any signs of it, but her daughter did, so it could have been a combination in the family of two rarer circumstances - ended with Eliza, and early onset with Olivia.

[Mary]

Angela wrote: "And the daughter, but not Eliza."

Yes, but the Doctor said it never skipped a generation. So I guess in this case it did, but he did say that maybe she would have a late onset.

[Angela]

Thing's I found unbelieveable: lying to the detective in the beginning, breaking into the doctor's office, and not being suspicious of the note signed by Elizabeth. That was from Mrs. Braun wasn't it?

[Mary]

One thing I have to mention about Genna's actions. I couldn't believe that she would go out unaccompanied at midnight, supposedly to meet Eliza. She also didn't take notice that the message was from "Elizabeth", which is a name that I don't think Genna ever use for her.

[Gwyn]

Huntington"s chorea is passed mainly through males, so the father could have passed it to his child(grandchild Olivia) but not necessarily to his daughter. It is known to skip a generation. At some point, Dr. Huntington says this.

[Angela]

Who pushed Genna into the freezer? Was is Mrs. Braun or Elizabeth...I can't remember....

[Mary]

... the note signed by Elizabeth. That was from Mrs. Braun wasn't it?"

I thought it was from Elizabeth (the "old one")

[Tim]

Angela wrote: "Do you think Mrs. Braun was sane? Did you find her actions understandable?"

Her motivations seemed a bit weak, or very confused to me. I get that she thought "Who would shop here if they knew what happened with Eliza and her father?" But did she think people would shop at a place where the daughter had killed two people in a horribly violent way? Perhaps she didn't think Eliza would get blamed when she killed the doctor, but she seemed so set against anything Genna did to help out like getting a lawyer, it seemed likely that Eliza would get blamed for both murders.

[Tim]

Angela wrote: "Thing's I found unbelieveable: lying to the detective in the beginning, breaking into the doctor's office, and not being suspicious of the note signed by Elizabeth. That was from Mrs. Braun wasn't it?"

Yeah, that seemed dumb right from the start. Should have gotten Simon to go with her at least. And it was from Mrs Braun.

[Tim]

Angela wrote: "Who pushed Genna into the freezer? Was is Mrs. Braun or Elizabeth...I can't remember...."

Elizabeth/Eliza didn't do anything bad, as far as I can tell. It was Mrs. Braun who locked her in the freezer.

[Tim]

Gwyn wrote: "Huntington"s chorea is passed mainly through males, so the father could have passed it to his child(grandchild Olivia) but not necessarily to his daughter. It is known to skip a generation. At some point, Dr. Huntington says this"

Did you mean to say it DOESN'T skip a generation? That was my takeaway, if Olivia had it and the baby's father didn't, that meant Eliza had to have it. But Dr Huntington said that sometimes, it just stops (the children don't get it), and never comes back to the family.

[Gwyn]

Maybe my misreading.

[Angela]

Yes, but I think the father had it. He was always falling down the stairs, stumbling, etc. Then it skipped Eliza and went to Olivia. Speaking of which do you thing it was right for Genna to tell Oliva?

[Gwyn]

Yes to telling Olivia. The earl or count oe whatever, obviously would have not been a supportive husband and father. A thorny spot for a doctor, but, yes.

[Tim]

Had to tell Olivia, yes.

[Tim]

Found it an interesting twist that Charles didn't know his daughter was adopted. Strange times, huh?

[Mary]

Angela wrote: "Yes, but I think the father had it. He was always falling down the stairs, stumbling, etc. Then it skipped Eliza and went to Olivia. Speaking of which do you thing it was right for Genna to tell Ol..."

Yes. In fact I was surprised when she was thinking about NOT telling her.

[Mary]

I was surprised that Lucille's husband didn't know that Olivia was adopted.

[Angela]

Yes,not knowing about the adoption was a doozy! Very good twist.

[Angela]

I thought the whole interaction with Simon was completely predictable, it was so obvious what her father had done, but I guess as a character he served a useful purpose as far as making things easier for Genna. I did enjoy the view of the wheeling and dealing in politics.

[Angela]

My new words: sop, swivet, pettifogger. I've seen a couple of these but hopefully now I'll remember what they mean.

My favorite quote, when Genna is thinking about her father:
"Maybe anger could be the expression of a crippled kind of love. But that didn't make it any less painful".

Any favorite quotes?

[Gwyn]

We haven't really talked about Simon and the Tammany Hall machine. Our current view is that it was corrupt and awful, but as protrayed here, the machine was the one thing that got things done.. On the other hand, Simon was almost too good , sympathetic and kind to be true. Good for the story, maybe not for accuracy.

[Angela]

Just a note---posting does not refresh your screen! I found this out the hard way!

[Angela]

Yes, Gwyn, that's how I feel. Simon just came in too handy.

[Tim]

Gwyn wrote: "We haven't really talked about Simon and the Tammany Hall machine. Our current view is that it was corrupt and awful, but as protrayed here, the machine was the one thing that got things done.. "

I haven't studied it and only a surface impression, which matches what you said, but my guess is that it was like most things of that sort - it started out being a good thing, but evolved over time to that corrupt and awful thing. But still able to do some good.

[Tim]

Quotes:

"since footmen were paid by the inch and the Fiskes could afford the best, all very, very tall."

"Not all American heiresses who’d married impoverished aristocrats over the last two decades had ended up as badly as Ella Haggin, whose yachtsman husband was rumored to have marooned her on a cannibal island."

"I wasn’t sure which had been more nerve-racking: having him to lunch and watching Father choke with the effort at being civil, or working at the Tammany winter fireworks festival a few days later, where I’d volunteered to serve cider and fried donuts—and where the way he’d kept looking at me from his perch on the fire truck had made me spill more cider than I served."

[Mary]

There's usually a romance in mysteries like this, and it frequently starts with an antagonistic relationship between the two characters. I think that's why it was hard to see Simon as a suspect, or working against Genna.

I also realized as I was reading this that I had read it before, so some things might have come back to me subconsciously.

[Mary]

Angela wrote: "Just a note---posting does not refresh your screen! I found this out the hard way!"

Nope. But your own post pops up immediately. That's probably why it looks like it is refreshed.

[Tim]

Mary wrote: "I also realized as I was reading this that I had read it before, so some things might have come back to me subconsciously"

I hate it when that happens with a mystery - and sometimes I figure something out and I can't decide whether I figured it out the first time, too.

The worst is when I DON'T figure it out, in exactly the same way I'm sure I must have not figured it out before.

[Gwyn]

Gotta go, folks. Good to have some book chat. Everyone be safe. Looking forward to seeing your living selves again. What's the July book?

[Mary]

Tim wrote: "Quotes:

"since footmen were paid by the inch and the Fiskes could afford the best, all very, very tall."

I forgot this. Is this true?

[Angela]

Next month's book: Blackout by Marc Elsberg.

For August: "The Kind Worth Killing" by Peter Swanson.

I am thinking of "The Last Policeman" by Ben H. Winters for September but we have mostly hard copies. Are people ok with hard copies? Also I've heard that this group might have already read it.

Any suggestions for books? I can't promise anything, depends on copy availability, etc.

[Tim]

Mary wrote: "Tim wrote: "Quotes:

"since footmen were paid by the inch and the Fiskes could afford the best, all very, very tall."

I forgot this. Is this true?"

No idea, but it was a really good line.

[Gwyn]

This was a running joke on Downton Abbey(remember the very tall footman?) I didn't get it until my English friend pointed it out and explained it to me.