Tournament of Books discussion
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2015 Books
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2015 ToB Competition Discussion
Lagullande wrote: "Hi everyone. This is my first year following the TOB. I love lists and I love competition so I was all set to read as many of the books as I could. I've got my hands on a few (All The Light, All th..."This is only my second year following the TOB, but I'd say its shortlist appears to be unusually weak.
Lagullande wrote: "Hi everyone. This is my first year following the TOB. I love lists and I love competition so I was all set to read as many of the books as I could. I've got my hands on a few (All The Light, All th..."There are always a few quirky choices, and this year, Wittgenstein Jr and Adam are on that end of the spectrum. Being exposed to some off-the-wall books that we might not have noticed otherwise is something a lot of us love about the ToB, along with seeing how the judges and commenters respond to the books. Not sure how expensive it is to ship internationally, but would ordering from Powell's or Amazon be a way to get some of the books that aren't in your library? Good luck, and welcome!
Allyson wrote: "I started Brave Man but had to set aside. I just didn't care, even a tad, about the characters. I'll go back to it later. Am currently reading the first in the Ferrante trilogy. I'm about 50% in an..."A Brave Man does pick up a bit more after what I too thought was a slow start. But one problem remained--I still didn't care about what was happening and couldn't ignore the siren call of the other books in my pile. Abandoned it at p. 200. Onwards to A Brief History.
Lagullande wrote: "Hi everyone. This is my first year following the TOB. I love lists and I love competition so I was all set to read as many of the books as I could. I've got my hands on a few (All The Light, All th..."in the intro. to this year's list of books in the tournament, they noted it was a very america-centric list this year. but that seems to be about par each year. a few european authors. maybe a canadian or two. but it (the final 16) seems heavily tilted toward US books/writers. i am sorry you are having trouble accessing a lot of the titles for the 2015 event, lagullande. but it's cool you are interested and reading what you can get your hands on!!
Lagullande wrote: "Hi everyone. This is my first year following the TOB. I love lists and I love competition so I was all set to read as many of the books as I could. I've got my hands on a few (All The Light, All th..."Lagullande, it's usually a mixed (but fun) bag. Some here and elsewhere may not be so keen on certain books this year, but I'll bet there are others who love those exact same books; hopefully this will all be good fodder for discussion come tournament time. (I am kind of lukewarm on this year's slate myself.) Would it be worth shelling money for some of these books? Hard to say. But even if you can't/don't want to read all of them, following the judging and commentary is still entertaining without having read the books in contention. A lot of times, I was convinced to read a book that I didn't even think I wanted to read. I loved the year when a majority of commenters were aghast at the decision to advance Sheila Heti's How Should a Person Be over the much loved Bring Up the Bodies by Hilary Mantel. The vehement reactions against Heti's book got me curious enough to check it out and it became one of my favorite books of that year.
I am still waiting for people who felt strongly positively about Wittgenstein Jr. and Adam to explain their value and their worthiness of a place in the ToB, especially considering many of the other books on the long list....but of course, it's just my opinion. One of the things I remember strongly about last year was being blown away by The People in the Trees but thinking -- oh my god, there's no one I could recommend it to, and it will be trounced in the first round -- and then watching it soar all the way to the semi-finals.
Lagullande,I do think it is an unusually weak shortlist, but I have only read five so far. (plan to read at least twelve) The thing is, the other eleven mostly consist of somewhat off the wall picks. Ordinarily, the Booker-winner makes the field which, I think, typically makes the field stronger. I suppose The Bone Clocks could have taken the Booker spot, but I remember the good old days when two or even three Booker-contenders would make the cut.
Having said all that, and despite having followed the ToB for many years, I don't think I've read all 16 in any given year. Usually, there are at least a couple with zero appeal and, also, one or two that are some combination of too hard or expensive to obtain (book in a box, etc.). As others have said, the Tournament is fun to follow even if you don't read them all. Maybe, in your first year, pick the eight or so that are most enticing, then see what the judges, the color commentators, and the rest of us have to say before picking up, say, Adam
The other thing to note is that, as with the others who've responded to you, you do often find a treasure among the books you read only because they made the ToB. Also, if you do choose to read a book you end up hating, it can be fun to root against a book because it is the antithesis of what you want in literature. See The Help.
Kerry wrote: "Lagullande,... if you do choose to read a book you end up hating, it can be fun to root against a book because it is the antithesis of what you want in literature. See The Help. ..."OMG yes, book hate can be fun indeed!
Lagullande wrote: "Hi everyone. This is my first year following the TOB. I love lists and I love competition so I was all set to read as many of the books as I could. I've got my hands on a few (All The Light, All th..."Welcome! An important thing to remember is that the ToB is not there to anoint a book, or even a list of books as the best in a given year, it's just an arbitrary choice to limit each year's list to books published in the year before. The ToB exists to make those of us passionate about books even more passionate (if that's possible) for a few months each year. Passionate hate is just as welcome as passionate love or even passionate indifference to a book or many books on the list. Last year I couldn't even finish the goldfinch, but came away considering Long Division to be the best book I read all year, and I book I never would have found were it not for the ToB.
Read as much or as little as you choose before the event itself, sometimes its better just to let the judges be a filter, just as these discussions can be. Just have fun being passionate about what you read in the company of like minded folk.
I think Ohenrypacey is spot on. The TOB is basically an excuse to geek out and talk about books with other book lovers. :-)
Good. Then I'm going to tell everyone how much I hate The Bone Clocks. I am 200 pages from the end and stalled out. I can't seem to get up the impetus to finish, I surely can't abandon it with so little left to go, and I can't pick up anything else. Bleah, David Mitchell.
Ohenrypacey wrote: "Lagullande wrote: "Hi everyone. This is my first year following the TOB. I love lists and I love competition so I was all set to read as many of the books as I could. I've got my hands on a few (Al..."Ohenrypacey is right about everything except The Goldfinch. I think you meant to put The Luminaries, right and it got auto-corrected?
Janet wrote: "Good. Then I'm going to tell everyone how much I hate The Bone Clocks. I am 200 pages from the end and stalled out. I can't seem to get up the impetus to finish, I surely can't a..."You must have hit the "Dungeons & Dragons" part. :D
Janet wrote: "Good. Then I'm going to tell everyone how much I hate The Bone Clocks. I am 200 pages from the end and stalled out. I can't seem to get up the impetus to finish, I surely can't a..."i am at the halfway point with it (at the wedding with ed and holly) and... meh. i find it is just trying to do too many things and it's not well put together for me at this stage. for reasons of full disclosure: i am not a huge fan of mitchell's books. the previous two i've read (Cloud Atlas and The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet) were just fine, but i was not gaga over them the way so many people have been. and, so far, 'bone clocks' seems to be about the same. i do like mitchell - the guy - an awful lot though. i find him really interesting. so i wish i liked his writing more. i do have a small stable of writers who i enjoy as people, but not so much as writers. i'm pretty sure mitchell's officially part of that club for me now.
right from the start of The Bone Clocks, i didn't buy in. i wasn't loving the voice of 15yo holly - finding to too affected. it's also got me mulling over the whole larger idea of manipulation of the reader in fiction, and writers doing more 'look how clever i am'-type writing. someone i know commented that david mitchell gets in his own way.
sorry for the ramble... i will turn back to the book now. :)
TOB is the only time I truly let anyone else tell me what to read. Over the years I've become more finicky about what to read, being sure I know better than anyone what I will like. My commitment to read all the books in this tourney has been a way to stretch out of my comfort zone and trust some other recommendations. Yes, there are some clunkers, although my clunkers may not be shared with others. Last year I really liked The Luminaries, shook my head at Long Division and discovered A Tale for the Time Being all thanks to the tourney. Earlier comments on these boards encouraged me to check out All My Puny Sorrows and Wolf in White Van. Rooting for or against a book to make the shortlist, then root again at judgement time is such fun. Only drawback, my backlog of older novels to read continues to grow as a flit from one new release to the next. Think I will dedicate the first couple months after TOB to older titles (at least until the Summer buzz books are released).
Jennifer, Neil Gaiman falls into that group for me. Love the man, have seen him in person, he's a great speaker but I have never read a book by him that I thought lived up to the hype.
Beth wrote: "TOB is the only time I truly let anyone else tell me what to read. Over the years I've become more finicky about what to read, being sure I know better than anyone what I will like. My commitment..."Well put, Beth. Your experience mirrors mine.
Meanwhile, I'm trying not to fret that the next two Tournament books I want to read are on my iPad and my iPad's in the shop ...
I've now read The Bone Clocks, Station Eleven, A Brave Man, An Untamed State, Silence Once Begun, and All the Birds, Singing. Loved The Bone Clocks. Thought Station Eleven, A Brave Man, and Silence Once Begun were good.
However, I absolutely did not like All the Birds, Singing and An Untamed State.
I am baffled by all the positive reviews (and the high rating) for An Untamed State. I thought the writing was amateurish and unbearable, the characters were flat and shallow, and the book really didn't live up to all it could have been in terms of powerful discussion of race and class issues.
I'll be interested to see what the judges think!
Now to read on...
Currently reading annihilation after having finished all the birds singing, and I'm (pleasantly) linking the moaning thing in the reeds from annihilation to the beast from all the birds :)
I loved Annihilation for so many reasons. I was glad to see it on the short list and I hope it goes forward a long way in the contest. It's always hard for something so different to be compared with more standard (and rational) novels and to prevail.I bought All the Birds Singing because of TOB but I intensely disliked it. I'm tired of stories that rely on violence toward women for their narrative drive. I hope that isn't too much of a spoiler--it felt to me like the violence toward the main character began on the first page and kept going, in either backflash, or threat of future violence, or as actual event in the present.
Poingu wrote: "I loved Annihilation for so many reasons. I was glad to see it on the short list and I hope it goes forward a long way in the contest. It's always hard for something so different to be compared wit..."Poingu - Have you read any other Vandermeer and how do they compare to Annihilation?
Oh wow, since Rosie and I have opposite tastes, I'm thinking I should pick up All the Birds, Singing
C wrote: "Poingu - Have you read any other Vandermeer and how do they compare to Annihilation?" C, I love books that aren't like anything I've read before. All three Southern Reach books fit that description for me, and so far they are the only VanderMeer books I've read. In them he takes the idea of "unreliable narrator" to its logical extreme, where everything you read is unreliable. He's also attempting to write a story about a place/event where human senses are useless for trying to understand that place/event. I think he succeeds in that goal, in particular with "Annihilation," but I'm curious about how the TOB judges will be able to evaluate Annihilation's merits vs. a more straightforward novel. Some readers will prefer a more solid sense of what the heck is going on.
Poingu, I'm thinking you're going to hate An Untamed State. But we'll see.Whereas although I can't say I LIKE it, and I would have trouble recommend it to anyone, I can't imagine any of the other books beating An Untamed State. I'm 100 pp. from the end and nothing I've read so far or that I've heard about the others I have yet to read indicates that any of them can stand up to it. Rosie, unlike you, I think the writing is phenomenal and it's incredibly gripping -- and almost impossible to read at the same time. Essentially, you can't stop reading it and you desperately don't want to. Isn't that what books are supposed to do, grip you beyond yourself?
Haha, Janet, I like it! Book recs based on what other people didn't like. You should pick it up. Ellen, I agree with you absolutely that a book should do all those things you said. For me, though, An Untamed State didn't cut it. I felt like I could have put it down at any time and not cared about picking it up again. Maybe I should have done that!
I am glad I read it though, if only because I feel like it is an important subject matter and also because it will help me to develop my own writing style.
I am currently reading (slogging through) A Brief History of Seven Killings. It is killing me a little. It's the kind of book I can understand why it's critically acclaimed, and yet, at the same time, I find it unenjoyable to read. It reminds me of my experience reading The Orphan Master's Son. I will be disappointed if it wins ToB.I am also listening to All the Birds, Singing on audio. It made me anxious at first but it is growing on me. The language is striking, and I'm intrigued by how the narrative is unfolding.
Ellen wrote: "Poingu, I'm thinking you're going to hate An Untamed State. But we'll see."Ok! I'll try it next and let you know!
Poingu wrote: "Ellen wrote: "Poingu, I'm thinking you're going to hate An Untamed State. But we'll see."Ok! I'll try it next and let you know!"
Oops, you're right, Ellen, I opened the preview and I'm not going to get off the first page of this one. Onward.
Dept. of Speculation is 5.59 on Kindle and Brave Man Seven Storeys Tall is still 1.99. Those Who Leave and Those Who Stay and the second book in the series are 7.99, and the first book of the series, My Brilliant Friend, is 2.99.
What I love about the TOB is how it highlights how subjective tastes in books really are. When you give a limited list of books to a rabid group of book lovers, everyone comes up with a different opinion of what they love and hate.Then it's taken to a whole new level when a single judge must use his or her subjective taste to pick one of a pair, justify that choice and listen to the rabid defense or criticism of their decision. Their choices will be just as subjective as ours is now. Even with the full sixteen, there is not anything close to a consensus within this group. (Although WJ seems to be coming close) To me that is the message of the TOB: Everyone's tastes are different!
Yes, I like how it makes what drives our reading more visible --and how that is different. We come to books with different motivations, prejudices, desires. Books can do different things for different readers. And so my favourite judgments are the ones that make that visible. Every year, I find the ToB helps me think about my own reading practices -- and what I try to get out of books.
Heh, Poingu. I feel I know you like a sibling already!Hey, I can't even summon hate for Wittgenstein Jr. Who can feel hate for such a towering (albeit slim) tower of mediocrity? I'm just mystified by its inclusion when so many other books -- like, for example, Colorless Tsukuru ..., which I'm in the middle of listening to -- were not? Who is this Lars Iyer and what hold does he have over our beloved ToB committee?
Meanwhile, my next book is A Brief History of Seven Killings, which I'm kind of dreading; it's the only long book I have left to read, I'm totally uninterested in the subject matter, and I opened it up to see that it uses the dreaded dash-before-dialogue convention rather than quotation marks, which I loathe, even when Roddy Doyle uses it. I'm delaying the inevitable with a palate-cleanser of Julie Schumacher's Dear Committee Members, which I'm enjoying but would agree that despite its charm, it wouldn't really have worked well in the context of the ToB (I would say the same about Wittgenstein Jr, of course, minus the charm, but that boat's already sailed).
Barbara wrote: "What I love about the TOB is how it highlights how subjective tastes in books really are. When you give a limited list of books to a rabid group of book lovers, everyone comes up with a different o..."Another thing to love about TOB is that the "judges" are completely up front about their biases and quirks, always. When they write about why they chose Book A over Book B, they are always full of caveats. They let their subjectivity shine out proudly. By doing that they help me enjoy my own biases, and to get over the angst I feel for hating books that everyone else seems to think is Great New Literature (cough) (goldfinch)
Ellen wrote: "Heh, Poingu. I feel I know you like a sibling already!Hey, I can't even summon hate for Wittgenstein Jr. Who can feel hate for such a towering (albeit slim) tower of mediocrity? I'm just mysti..."
The next book on my list, Ellen.
Barbara wrote: "What I love about the TOB is how it highlights how subjective tastes in books really are. ..."Yes! Some of us even found room in our hearts for Wittgenstein Jr. :-)
Thanks, everyone, for your comments and suggestions for how this UK TOB Newbie can enjoy the experience too. I am really impressed by how respectful the group is of differences of opinion, despite the strength of your feelings. (If only politicians were so mature.) And I'm now really looking forward to reading the post-judgement discussions!More of the books on the list seem to be becoming available in paperback here, so I will do my best to catch up.
And especial thanks to the kind person who offered to lend me their e-reader copies. Super generosity towards someone you don't know at all.
i posted this in 'the rooster' group, but i will share it here too,okay, so i am ⅓ way through the third book, Those Who Leave and Those Who Stay, and i read books 1 & 2 last week (My Brilliant Friend & The Story of a New Name).
fwiw, here's my take:
i think book 3 is best served if the previous 2 books have already been read. book 3 starts out, as do the previous 2, with a character list. in book 3 though, a bit of background information is given with the major characters with what's gone on in their stories to this point. it is only the briefest of skims, so many, many things are missed. but it's something, i guess, to at least include that. (someone in the other group had complained they couldn't keep people straight. i had no trouble keeping the characters and families straight. it reminded me a bit like the big russian novels and their giant cast of characters. ferrante's is not quite so extensive.) so because there's this briefest of overviews at the beginning of the book, that may be why some feel it could work as a stand-alone piece. personally, i don't think it does.
book 1 i rated 4-stars (my only quibble here was a curiosity about the style of the prose. i felt it a bit awkward at times and wondered if there was something with the translation that made it this way, but determined it was likely more about the dialect which is mentioned a lot in the books.) book 2 i rated 5-stars. my concerns about the style of language were gone with this book. it was a much smoother/tighter style. so far, book 3 is holding up the momentum and style of book 2.
i am finding this series fascinating. on its surface, it's a fairly simple idea, written in a plain manner. but ferrante has a keen eye, and so many issues are touched on and handled wonderfully.
so... i hope the judges who have been assigned Those Who Leave and Those Who Stay have time to read the trilogy. i have found them very quick reading, and books i don't want to put down. i am still totally wondering if, by going with this 3rd book, the ToB has put it at a disadvantage right out of the gates?
well, there's my long ramble. sorry! and sorry, too, for the '1, 2, 3' use... i haven't had my tea yet and i'm feeling lazy-ish. :)
Jennifer wrote: "i posted this in 'the rooster' group, but i will share it here too,okay, so i am ⅓ way through the third book, Those Who Leave and Those Who Stay, and i read books 1 & 2 last week..."
I read book 3 as a stand alone and I think that's what the judge(s) should do as it is offered up that way. Although I agree completely that it would be better with the other two books having been read. I felt I was missing huge chunks of back story but allowed myself to just roar right on past them. I wasn't expecting to but found myself quite liking Ferrante's style.
I too wonder how both this and Annihilation will hold up as stand alones. I have not read it yet but suspect Annihilation is more complete and acceptable as a solo book.
I haven't read Annihilation yet but would think it would enjoy an advantage of being first in a series. I agree that the nomination of a third book in a series encourages the judges to read only that book which for the reasons Jennifer cites could be problematic.
right, i do understand reading Those Who Leave and Those Who Stay by itself, since that's how it was nominated. but, man, that's missing so much and such a bummer for me to think about. heh. :)(question: i don't recall the ferrante books (1 and 2) being on the radar in previous tournaments. does anyone have a better memory than me, and who can speak to this?)
i agree that Annihilation, being the first in the series, may fare much better as a stand-alone.
(another question: in the ToB longlist, was it not the entire southern reach trilogy that was under consideration? seems to me that was the case and people were worried about the volume of reading involved with that - in time for the tournament, i mean.)
Jennifer wrote: "(another question: in the ToB longlist, was it not the entire southern reach trilogy that was under consideration? seems to me that was the case and people were worried about the volume of reading involved with that - in time for the tournament, i mean.) "I still have the long list right beside my computer and yes, it was Area X, the entire trilogy, that was listed at that time.
ah, thanks, anne!! i get so happy when my memory actually works! haha!! so... i wonder what happened to take that consideration from the entire trilogy down to just 'annihilation'? and i wonder if they will pair ferrante with vandermeer, simply because of the trilogy connection? hmmm.....what the longest book that's ever been in contention? The Luminaries? maybe they just decided the entire southern reach was just too much reading for the judges it would be assigned to?
The two longest books that I immediately recalled were Luminaries (~850 pages) and 1Q84 (~925 pages)... but then I remembered Bolano's 2666 (way back in 2009) that clocked in at over 1k. So the full Area X trilogy -- showing just over 600 pages total here on Goodreads -- doesn't seem like it would have been too much to handle/stretch. Also in this trilogy talk, 1Q84 I think was published as a trilogy in Japan, but only the full volume here.
Agree Jennifer wouldn't be surprised at all if it's an Annihilation v. Ferrante first round... always love the little games the ToB powers-that-be play.
OH!!! 2666!!! man, i love, love, love that book. i still have not read 1Q84. (and i had forgotten about the trilogy to single book in NA.)ed - if they do do that, ferrante v. vandermeer, wow. that's some pretty different literature right there. (haven't read 'annihilation' yet but it's coming up.)
eidted to add:
so Area X: The Southern Reach Trilogy, at 608 pages, isn't really that bad. i hadn't looked closely at the page count and it's way lower than i thought.
Jennifer wrote: "i posted this in 'the rooster' group, but i will share it here too,okay, so i am ⅓ way through the third book, Those Who Leave and Those Who Stay, and i read books 1 & 2 last week..."
I finished books 1 & 2 last week and am starting book 3 today. I agree that if you have the time you should read the first two books just to be able to understand the depth of reason behind some of the events that occur. With that being said, if you can only read book 3, then do it. Ferrante is a gifted writer and you will not be disappointed.
jayme, i find they are reading really quickly! and i am so keen to keep finding out what's going to happen next. also trying to imagine how this will all wrap up in the next couple of hundred pages i have left.
Dept. of Speculation snuck in next for me. I'm so depressed that this novel is on the TOB short list. It felt shallow to me, however nicely worded. I'll look forward to having one of the judges explain why this is one of the best of 2014 because just now I don't see it.
Poingu wrote: "Dept. of Speculation snuck in next for me. I'm so depressed that this novel is on the TOB short list. It felt shallow to me, however nicely worded. I'll look forward to having one o..."TOTALLY agree. It felt like a collection of thoughts that weren't properly sewn together with any depth. Maybe that was her intention, but I didn't like it at all. It annoys me when books feel like they've been written so that every sentence could be posted as a quote on Tumblr.
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Tournament of Books
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Half Blood Blues (other topics)
The Accidental (other topics)
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Thomas King (other topics)Elena Ferrante (other topics)
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I would have been prepared to shell out hard money for my own copies where necessary but the overwhelming vibe I'm getting from the comments here is that most are hard to get into and, even then, may not be worth the effort (yes, Wittgenstein, I am looking at you). Is that typical with the TOB, or is this an unusual year?