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2020 2Q: The Golden Notebook (Part 3 questions)
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1. One of the book’s main themes is breakthrough versus breakdown. If people are indeed fragmented and compartmentalized, then is a breakdown necessary for a breakthrough? How else might a person integrate various aspects of their lives? Do the adults in your life seem integrated or compartmentalized?I did find the sections in which our main character Anna found herself "breaking down" as rather tedious. I think Lessing captured breaking down well but it nevertheless did not provide me with insight. I think that all people move through times of compartmentalizing and integrating. During this time of Covid-19, many of my friends are shocked to realize the extent that they kept their work life separate from their family life when faced with having to integrate them at least physically in the same space. Also, I can not imagine that everyone needs to totally breakdown in order to pull though to a breakthrough. I can understand how mental chaos could, on occasion, assist the creative process but for Lessing that does not seem to be the case.
2. One of the big debates that endures about this book is whether or not it is a “feminist” novel. Here is a blog detailing the for and against debate on the issue: https://bookriot.com/2018/03/27/golde... what do you think?
Good blog article. I do think that Lessing wrote about women who were exceptional for their time in that they made decisions that did not make them subordinate to men. These same women however, were emotionally dependent on men. Anna and Molly were both able to make a living without a man paying the bills. They were both single Moms and they made decisions about their political and social commitments without being overly influenced by men. Men were always judging them and they were able to keep that at arm's length. I believe that Lessing did not see it as a feminist book, or perhaps simply didn't like that label. However, if you view feminism as a continuously evolving perspective rather than a movement at a specific moment in time, I would say that this book leaned toward feminism.
3. Do you agree with playwright Victoria Brittain’s analysis that The Golden Notebook is as illuminating today as it was when it appeared thirty years ago? Or do you find the novel dated in any way? Do the struggles of Anna, Molly, and Marion seem relevant today? What can women in the 21st Century learn from the three women?
I think the book is still relevant in that the women's struggles around what to believe in and what to act on politically continues to be current. The interaction with men and how the men present themselves seems dated but the women's interactions with each other and their particular struggles, even in regards to how to think about men is not as dated.
4. Did you find the final “golden notebook” to be satisfying? Was Anna able to synthesize the parts of her life in a way that seemed healthy? Was this a “happy ending” and, if not, what does this say about women’s place in society?
Unfortunately for me, by the time I got to the golden notebook I was rather done with Saul Green and with Anna's retelling of the story of her life. The golden notebook did seem more integrated but it wasn't as if I was shocked or moved or found that Anna had "hit the nail on the head". Therefore it did not seem like a "happy ending", but just a step forward. I suppose one could say that it was a step forward in securing women's rightful place in society but to be honest, the golden notebook did not feel like that. The overall book may.
5. Describe Anna’s relationship with Saul Green. Does this relationship contribute to her breakdown or to her breakthrough, or both? How so?
I think that Anna's realization that she could not stay with Saul Green, that it was at its core a very unhealthy relationship, coupled with Janet's coming home for the summer and Anna needing to be "normal" for her, did ultimately lead to Anna's breakthrough. However, could she have had that breakthrough without having to go through that horrible relationship? I should hope that there was a different way to get there.
6. In the 1971 introduction, Lessing argues that no one should read a book at the wrong time and that readers should put down any book they find boring or skip over parts they do not like. How do you feel about this advice? If you followed this advice, would you have finished The Golden Notebook? What did you think of the book? Do you agree with its placement on the list? Why or why not?
In that we had 3 months to finish this book, I did to a certain extent, follow her advice. I put the book down often and did not go back to it in my usual methodical way. It never called to me but I did feel at times like picking it back up and continuing due to her writing. There were times that I was incredibly impressed with that. For example, the scene in which Anna goes to talk to Marion and Tommy about what they are doing to Richard and Molly I found to be brilliant. Anna never comes out and says what she thought she would say, and does not voice any argument about their behavior. However Marion and Tommy's expectation about what Anna is thinking and what she is doing there triggers a odd, one sided dialogue about their own behavior. Anna actually is successful in her objective. I can not imagine how difficult that scene would be to write....
I also liked that Saul's opening line is the opening line of the book.
Also, speaking of breakdowns, my very old book totally fell apart while reading it. I finally had to gaffer tape it together. That does not happen with my e-books...
1. I would hate to think that everyone had to have a breakdown to achieve self-actualisation! Most people manage to integrate the various compartments of their lives without a meltdown. Most people in my life are retired, so their integrations are complete.2. The article is interesting. If your definition of feminism is an awareness that gender roles are constricting and unnecessary, then this is a feminist novel, despite what its author might say!
3. The Golden Notebook did not appear 30 years ago! It was published in 1962 - nearly 60 years ago!
My new laptop does strange things and I lose my thread. I do not find the book dated because I lived through the debates about Communism, gender role definition, female orgasm and all the rest!4. I found the Golden Notebook to be deeply dissatisfying. Anna has a breakdown, Saul is a schizophrenic and it fizzles out into all three women taking compromising solutions to their dilemmas. I think women's roles in society are different now although #MeToo has shown that women are still victimised.
6. I don't think I would have pushed through and finished this book this month without the incentive of this discussion at the end. Lessing didn't belong to this bookgroup!
1. One of the book’s main themes is breakthrough versus breakdown. If people are indeed fragmented and compartmentalized, then is a breakdown necessary for a breakthrough? How else might a person integrate various aspects of their lives? Do the adults in your life seem integrated or compartmentalized?I should hope that breakdown isn't necessary in order to achieve breakthrough! Integration is a process that some are better at than others. I know people who are definitely integrated and others who are more compartmentalized.
2. One of the big debates that endures about this book is whether or not it is a “feminist” novel. Here is a blog detailing the for and against debate on the issue: https://bookriot.com/2018/03/27/golde... what do you think?
Good article. Perhaps it isn't truly feminist by standard definitions, but it was definitely prescient for it's time. Anna's lifestyle was not typical of the gender roles of the time period and would have been considered scandalous by most of society. I consider this a feminist book in that respect.
3. Do you agree with playwright Victoria Brittain’s analysis that The Golden Notebook is as illuminating today as it was when it appeared thirty years ago? Or do you find the novel dated in any way? Do the struggles of Anna, Molly, and Marion seem relevant today? What can women in the 21st Century learn from the three women?
I think aspects of the book are dated, but I think most of it is still relevant today.
4. Did you find the final “golden notebook” to be satisfying? Was Anna able to synthesize the parts of her life in a way that seemed healthy? Was this a “happy ending” and, if not, what does this say about women’s place in society?
I did not find the "golden" notebook particulary satisfying and I didn't see this as a happy ending. Women's place in society has improved since the book was written, but we still have a long way to go.
5. Describe Anna’s relationship with Saul Green. Does this relationship contribute to her breakdown or to her breakthrough, or both? How so?
I did not like Saul Green, but then again, I didn't care for any of the men in her life. It would be scary to be in a relationship with someone like him. I think she was attracted to him because he notices things about her that others don't. His keen observation may have helped her become more in tune with herself. I think this relationship contributed to both her breakdown and breakthrough, although ultimately more of the latter.
6. In the 1971 introduction, Lessing argues that no one should read a book at the wrong time and that readers should put down any book they find boring or skip over parts they do not like. How do you feel about this advice? If you followed this advice, would you have finished The Golden Notebook? What did you think of the book? Do you agree with its placement on the list? Why or why not?
If that was the case, I wouldn't finish many books. I see books as a commitment and power through even if I don't like them. Sometimes I am pleasantly surprised further on in the book. There are few books I have totally abandoned midway. I did enjoy this book and would have finished it regardless. I think it deserves it's place on the list.
1. If people are indeed fragmented and compartmentalized, then is a breakdown necessary for a breakthrough? How else might a person integrate various aspects of their lives? I am not sure I entirely agree that compartmentalization is something unhealthy and to be avoided, unless, of course, it is taken to the extreme of dissociative identity disorder. Perhaps my reading was too fragmented (read a section in a week or two, put it down for several weeks...), but I actually didn't understand why/how Anna was falling apart -- why having different aspects of herself more prevalent in different circumstance was a problem. 2. One of the big debates that endures about this book is whether or not it is a “feminist” novel. Feminism: the advocacy of women's rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes. I thought one of the main points of the book is that women should be able to choose to live the life, any life, that they want without social condemnation. I believe that is advocating for women to be considered equal to men and therefore feminist.
3. Do you agree with playwright Victoria Brittain’s analysis that The Golden Notebook is as illuminating today as it was when it appeared
4. Was this a “happy ending” and, if not, what does this say about women’s place in society?
Happy endings are for fairy tales and romance stories. This was a realistic ending - I believe Anna was in a better place than the beginning of the novel.
6. In the 1971 introduction, Lessing argues that no one should read a book at the wrong time and that readers should put down any book they find boring or skip over parts they do not like. How do you feel about this advice? If you followed this advice, would you have finished The Golden Notebook?
I believe that when you read a book at the right time of life, it can be magical. There are wrong times for a book, but also books for which there seems to be no "right" time. If I am reading a book at a wrong time and put it down leaving a feeling of distaste for the work, I am unlikely to ever pick it up again. If I am reading a book that makes me uncomfortable, that is pushing boundaries it may feel as if it is a wrong-time book (I dislike the book), but there might never be a time when reading it is "comfortable". I don't always have the patience to determine which is the reason I dislike a book, so I generally continue reading it. Apparently I had started reading TGN before -- many underlines and marginalia -- and put it down, never to pick it back up. Which is too bad, because my past self was much more in tune with the novel and it was probably closer to the right time for it.
6. What did you think of the book? Do you agree with its placement on the list? Why or why not?
I definitely read this at the wrong time. I can see how unique of a work it is and admire the structure, but I didn't connect to it at all. I think it does deserve a place on the list, but what I really want to see is a 75th anniversary edition that is published with the "stage directions" realized. In other words with the appearance of articles pasted onto the paper, the thick underlines visually represented, the edges of the paper for a notebook passage colored blue/black/red/yellow to match the notebook represented. Maybe going so far as to use different "handwriting fonts" for the different notebooks.
Liz, love your idea of the recreation of the notebooks. That is a wonderful idea with all the underlined sections and all the blacking out and maybe even coffee stains
Now that you’ve (presumably) finished the book, I’ll leave you with a couple of finishing off questions:
1. One of the book’s main themes is breakthrough versus breakdown. If people are indeed fragmented and compartmentalized, then is a breakdown necessary for a breakthrough? How else might a person integrate various aspects of their lives? Do the adults in your life seem integrated or compartmentalized?
2. One of the big debates that endures about this book is whether or not it is a “feminist” novel. Here is a blog detailing the for and against debate on the issue: https://bookriot.com/2018/03/27/golde... what do you think?
3. Do you agree with playwright Victoria Brittain’s analysis that The Golden Notebook is as illuminating today as it was when it appeared thirty years ago? Or do you find the novel dated in any way? Do the struggles of Anna, Molly, and Marion seem relevant today? What can women in the 21st Century learn from the three women?
4. Did you find the final “golden notebook” to be satisfying? Was Anna able to synthesize the parts of her life in a way that seemed healthy? Was this a “happy ending” and, if not, what does this say about women’s place in society?
5. Describe Anna’s relationship with Saul Green. Does this relationship contribute to her breakdown or to her breakthrough, or both? How so?
6. In the 1971 introduction, Lessing argues that no one should read a book at the wrong time and that readers should put down any book they find boring or skip over parts they do not like. How do you feel about this advice? If you followed this advice, would you have finished The Golden Notebook? What did you think of the book? Do you agree with its placement on the list? Why or why not?
Discuss!