Laurie R. King Virtual Book Club discussion
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Flower Net
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Flower Net, by Lisa See - VBC June 2020
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Lenore
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Jun 12, 2020 09:23AM
Dayna, I am so glad you are in this discussion! Another great find!
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Lenore wrote: "Dayna, I am so glad you are in this discussion! Another great find!"I’m glad you found it helpful, Lenore. I was curious myself about the Red Royalty but never made an effort to look past what I had read in Flower Net. I never heard them referred to that way when I was in China. Makes me want to ask my Chinese friends about the topic.
Agatha Christie wrote in her autobiography about her dislike of mysteries having a romantic subplot. Do you agree or disagree with her view? Do you feel the relationship of Liu Hulan and David Stark enhanced or detracted from the story?
I share Agatha Christie's dislike of mysteries having a romantic subplot, but it made the ending happen. I guess I'll have to say it detracted from the story, but enhanced the ending.
I wasn't crazy about the romantic aspects of it. I said earlier that I thought her explanation of who she was in her society and why that explained that she had to leave David without saying good-bye felt a little forced. I think had it been two men as co-workers it could have been an interesting history that explained some of the cultural revolution from a young person's perspective. Instead (for me) it lost any punch and of course the "I loved you and I have never stopped loving you" made it even more syrupy ... because then again they are separated at the end ... but is she pregnant? Which even made me think about reading the second book.
As long as the romance doesn’t drive the plot, I’m okay with it in a mystery. In this case, I don’t think it detracted from the story. There is a cultural aspect to the relationship between Hulan and David that is alluded to but not really explained well. One clue is Hulan repeating to herself the Confucian philosophy that says “when a girl, obey your father; when a wife, obey your husband; when a widow, obey your son.” I think Hulan fully intended to go back to the US but stopped out of obligation to her mother and to obey her father. I’ve read all three books, and things happen outside the narrative that are referred to but not explained. Such is the case regarding the time between Flower Net and book number 2, The Interior, and between book 2 and book 3, Dragon Bones.
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As to their history: it was maybe a little weird that Hulan totally ghosted David when she moved back to Beijing, but it kind of made sense too. He has this naivete about China and the culture and what Hulan was dealing with. He still completely didn't get it even after having been there. He's willfully ignorant to all the ways he may be unwittingly putting her in danger.
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Did anyone else get this feeling?
Erin wrote: "... But I was really thrown when they got together at the hotel in LA the first night they were back. It seemed out of character for Hulan to throw caution to the wind like that after everything she tried to tell David while they were in Beijing...."Actually, I thought that sort of made sense. To her, Beijing and Los Angeles are two different worlds. In LA she is free from the oppressive watchfulness of the totalitarian government, so she reverts to the freer lifestyle she had years before with David in LA.
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I love romance in my mysteries! Or at least some kind of back and forth. IE: The Thin Man, Lord Peter Wimsey and Harriet Vane, Emerson and Peabody, Holmes and Russell.
With that said, I thought this felt forced, but I find that's usually the case when there is prior history between characters that the readers aren't privy too. We barely got to know David and Hulan before David loses focus and starts pining for her.
Sabrina wrote: "...With that said, I thought this felt forced, but I find that's usually the case when there is prior history between characters that the readers aren't privy too. We barely got to know David and Hulan before David loses focus and starts pining for her...."I hadn't really thought about that before. We watched the relationship develop in all of the mysteries you mention (except The Thin Man, but I think that succeeds because the relationship is not a focus of the story, and is not tense, but rather partner-like). Walking into a complicated relationship does sort of make it unreal, or perhaps just distracting.
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Maybe that's the difference, Lenore. Whether it's tense or a partnership. This one kind of shouts, BAGGAGE!
Sabrina wrote: "...This one kind of shouts, BAGGAGE! "Hilariously, spot on!
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Tangent on that: was Nick/Nora relationship in the original book by Hammett? Or was that something that was added in by the screenwriters for the movie? There are a whole series of movies and I only remember one novel.
Sabrina wrote: "Lenore wrote: (except The Thin Man, but I think that succeeds because the relationship is not a focus of the story, and is not tense, but rather partner-like). Walking into a complicated relationsh..."Loved this!!!! Baggage it was - maybe that's what made it so forced for me ...
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The Wiki page has a lot of info on this, Erin. The Nick/Nora relationship was pretty spot on in book from what I remember reading. The quick banter and wit, etc. According to the Wikipage Hammett worked on the screenplays for the Thin Man series, which is why I'd imagine the dialogue was so good!
I think we have agreed (and if we haven't, I'm sure someone will let me know), that once David was assigned to work with the Chinese, the Chinese purposely assigned Hulan because of her prior connection with him. (At least, Zai thinks so.) What, if anything, did whoever assign her hope to gain by this, either personally or for China?
I think Zai was hoping to bring down Hulan’s father, who he knew was involved. Perhaps he was also trying to bring Hulan and David back together again because he knew that was what Hulan needed to be happy and to make up for Hulan’s father luring Hulan back to China for the sake of her mother.
I had another thought. Perhaps Hulan's father manipulated the situation. It's evident that he still harbors enormous anger toward her, from Cultural Revolution days. He's angry that she denounced him, he's angry that she got to go to America for education and a prestigious law firm job, he's angry that upon her return she would not live with him and her mother and care for her mother, and maybe he's even angry that she somehow managed to rise from tea girl to respected detective. Perhaps he was hoping Hulan and David would commit some indiscretion that would justify serious punishment for both of them, enabling his revenge.
As we're getting near the end of the month, I pose the question that has been bugging me from the beginning: If Vice-Minister Liu is profiting from the bear bile trade, does it make any sense that he would permit his daughter to investigate and possibly bring him down? Even if Zai was the person who originally arranged the assignment, Liu had the power to overrule him. Did this seem plausible to you?
I think Liu assumed that his daughter would not be successful.
Antoinette wrote: "I think Liu assumed that his daughter would not be successful."Do you think he was intentionally setting up her (and David) to fail?
As we are approaching the end of the month, I thought I would throw out a last couple of questions:What did you like or dislike about the book that hasn't been discussed already? Were you glad you read this book?
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What did you like or dislike about the book that hasn't been discussed already? Were you glad yo..."
Thanks for leading a great discussion, Lenore!
I have to admit... I got about 40% when my library subscription ran out. It just didn't hold me enough to recheck out. While I did really enjoy the cultural aspect of it, there was nothing urgent about it that made me go... I must finish this.
I may go back and finish it though.
Sabrina wrote: "Thanks for leading a great discussion..."You're welcome!
I just read this book through Overdrive—which makes me even later to this party than the "A Curious Beginning" one, I guess. I liked it okay, but less than some of hers. The graphic descriptions were very graphic, to the point of stomach-churning. And while I enjoy romantic elements in mysteries, I too didn't find this one all that believable—probably because characterization is not really one of the author's strengths. My favorite parts were the cultural contrasts, which at times gave me real insight into modern China.
