The History Book Club discussion
This topic is about
Hell and Other Destinations
BOOK OF THE MONTH
>
ARCHIVE - HELL AND OTHER DESTINATIONS: A 21st-Century Memoir by Madeleine K. Albright - DISCUSSION THREAD - (June, July, August) (No Spoilers, please)
Mod
Prague is beautiful and the Old Town part of the city is relatively "preserved" from any war damage. I found it a lovely place and it was very reasonably affordable too.
Mod
Marc,
look at the top of your post - you have a Neil Gaimon citation floater that you should delete.
message 304:
by
Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Sep 13, 2020 08:26PM)
(new)
-
rated it 4 stars
Mod
Week Fourteen: September 7th - September 13th
Chapter 28 - Midnight (page 440)
Chapter 29 - A Warning (page 455)
message 305:
by
Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Sep 06, 2020 02:07PM)
(new)
-
rated it 4 stars
Mod
Discussion Topics and Questions:
1. Albright touches upon the impact of social media and poses some interesting questions which we should discuss. How big has social media become and what do you think is its impact? Positive or Negative?
2. How dangerous has fake news become and how important is it for companies to play both offense and defense in protecting their company’s credibility and honor? How do lies immediately impact a company's bottom line?
3. Should social media platforms be fully free and unregulated online space? Is there a need for more discipline or regulations?
4. What obligations do social media platforms and the companies who run them have to ensure that the content it transmits is not inflammatory, bigoted, or marred by outrageous falsehoods? Should a company that allows such communications to remain on its platform be able to be sued for slander?
5. Who should be the judge of what or who crosses the line? Who or what enforces that judgment? Should these regulations and regulatory bodies be domestic or international or both?
6. How do we prevent personal information from being exploited in ways that violate trust? How do we protect personal information and data?
7. How do we weigh the private desire for confidentiality against the imperative of protecting the public against terrorist conspiracies and other forms of subversion? Interesting topics in view of the upcoming election? Your comments?
More:
"The Unraveling of America: Is This the End of the American Empire?" | Amanpour and Company (Interesting)
Link to video: https://youtu.be/lJJTAz5ux-c
Synopsis: Amid a global pandemic, with a polarized political electorate, and with protesters crowding the streets, one wonders if the American Era might be coming to an end. Wade Davis certainly would argue that it is. In a recent article for "Rolling Stone," he wrote about COVID-19 as a factor in “the unraveling of America." Davis shares his thoughts with Hari Sreenivasan - Originally aired on August 17, 2020.
Note: This was a fascinating interview which explains a lot about the mask naysayers and why the high number of cases are a result of something at the societal level which may not be easily fixed with a vaccine. Is there a vaccine to protect American democracy?
The article: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics...
Sources: The Rolling Stone Magazine, Youtube, PBS, Albright, Madeleine. Hell and Other Destinations (p. 208). Harper. Kindle Edition, Make a Web Site
message 306:
by
Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Sep 06, 2020 02:56PM)
(new)
-
rated it 4 stars
Mod
By line - Alan Taylor for The Atlantic
Yesterday, May 31, (2020) the artist Christo Vladimirov Javacheff, better known as Christo, passed away in his home in New York City at the age of 84.
Christo, along with his late wife and partner, Jeanne-Claude Denat de Guillebon, spent decades planning and building environmental artwork around the world, on massive scales: wrapping the German Reichstag building in fabric, placing thousands of colorful gates on the pathways of New York’s Central Park, surrounding entire islands with floating fabric in Florida, and much more.
Below, images of some of the installations created by Christo and Jeanne-Claude over their lifetimes. And, be sure to also read “Christo Found Beauty in Realizing the Impossible,” by our own Sophie Gilbert.
The artist Christo Vladimirov Javacheff, better known as Christo, poses for a photograph as he unveils his artwork, "The Mastaba" on Serpentine lake in Hyde Park in London on June 18, 2018. Christo's first UK outdoor work is a 20-meter-high installation made from over 7,000 colored, horizontally stacked barrels on a floating platform. - Niklas Halle'N / AFP / Getty
Artist Christo Javacheff's six-ton $700,000 curtain billows across Rifle Gap in Colorado in 1972. State officials gave permission for it to hang for one month, but canyon winds tore it to shreds within 24 hours - Bruce McAllister / EPA / National Archives
An environmental work of art titled "Surrounded Islands," by Christo, is in the process of being installed in Miami, Florida, in May of 1983 - Kathy Willens / AP
Christo works at his “Surrounded Islands” in Miami in 1983 - Kathy Willens / AP
Sources: The Atlantic Monthly, Reuters, AP, National Archives, Getty
message 307:
by
Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Sep 06, 2020 02:51PM)
(new)
-
rated it 4 stars
Mod
An aerial view of one of the "Surrounded Islands" in May of 1983 - Kathy Willens / AP
The Pont-Neuf, oldest bridge in Paris, is illuminated by street lights in 1985 after being wrapped in 40,000 square meters of shiny nylon cloth by the artist Christo. The bridge remained open to vehicle and pedestrian traffic for the two weeks it was wrapped in September and early October - Herve Merliac / AP
Local public school children make their way down a footpath through rice fields and blue umbrellas in Sato River Valley, north of Tokyo, on October 9, 1991. After a one-day delay due to heavy rain, hundreds of workers opened 1,340 umbrellas, a work titled "The Umbrellas," spread throughout this farming valley -Mitsuhiko Sato / AP
Artists Christo, left, and Jeanne-Claude, right, pose in front of an image of "The Umbrellas" as they visit their exhibition "Swiss Projects 1968-1998" at the Center PasquArt in Biel, Switzerland, on August 27, 2004 - Keystone, Monika Flueckiger / Monika Flueckiger / Associated Press / AP
Sources: The Atlantic, AP
message 308:
by
Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Sep 06, 2020 02:51PM)
(new)
-
rated it 4 stars
Mod
An aerial view shows Christo's "Wrapped Reichstag", covered with silver polypropylene fabric, on June 24, 1995. -Lutz Schmidt / Reuters
Workers on Christo's team wrap the German Reichstag behind the Quadriga statue on top of the Brandenburg Gate. - Fabrizio Bensch / Reuters
Thousands of visitors view the wrapped German Reichstag on June 25, 1995 - Reinhard Krause / Reuters
Sources: The Atlantic, Reuters
message 309:
by
Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Sep 06, 2020 02:52PM)
(new)
-
rated it 4 stars
Mod
The wrapped German Reichstag is reflected in the river Spree on June 28, 1995. - Reinhard Krause / Reuters
Visitors walk among wrapped trees in Riehen, Switzerland, on December 13, 1998, admiring for the last time the work of environmentalist artists Christo and Jean Claude. The artists decided to start to unwrap the "Wrapped Trees" a month earlier than expected. -Winfried Rothermel / AP
An assistant puts final touches on one of 163 trees wrapped in the park of the museum of the Beyeler Foundation in Riehen near Basel, on November 18, 1998. - Reuters
Sources: The Atlantic, Reuters, AP
message 310:
by
Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Sep 06, 2020 03:03PM)
(new)
-
rated it 4 stars
Mod
Christo's exhibition "The Wall," inside the Oberhausen gasometer is well-attended on October 22, 1999, three days before the gates closed. The 26-meter-high wall made of 13,000 colorfully painted oil barrels saw more than 350,000 visitors - Roland Weihrauch / AP
"The Gates" art installation, created by Christo and Jeanne-Claude, lines a snow-covered bridge in New York's Central Park, on February 21, 2005. "The Gates" featured 7,500 frames with their hanging orange-tinted fabric, creating what the artists billed as "a visual golden river" along 23 miles of footpaths in the park -
Mary Altaffer / AP
More:
Remainder of article and photos:
Link: https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/202...
A wonderful tribute:
Christo Found Beauty in Realizing the Impossible - The conceptual artist, who died yesterday at 84, made constructing quixotic, monumental projects his life’s work - SOPHIE GILBERT - JUNE 1, 2020
Link to article: https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/a...
Christo by Wolfgang Volz
More:
Christo Vladimirov Javacheff - 1935–2020 Tribute
Link to Video:https://youtu.be/ZsyItiL2Hpo
Sources: The Atlantic, AP
message 311:
by
Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Sep 07, 2020 04:46PM)
(new)
-
rated it 4 stars
Mod
Richard Allen - Wikipedia
Chapter Twenty-Two
Inferno
"SHORTLY AFTER I turned fifty, I became a talking head. The television show, Great Decisions, was on PBS and adhered to a format well known to any high school debater: one issue, a moderator, and commentators from opposing sides.
For the Republicans, former Reagan National Security Advisor Richard Allen; for the Democrats, me. Each week, between 1989 and 1991, the two of us matched sound bites on a broad sweep of foreign policy issues.
Source: Albright, Madeleine. Hell and Other Destinations (p. 211). Harper. Kindle Edition.
More:
Madeleine Albright: "A History of Diplomacy" (well done and humorous - let me know what you think)
The Gerald R Ford Presidential Library and Museum present Dr. Madeleine Albright on her history of diplomacy and her collection of world famous pins.
Link to video on youtube: https://youtu.be/x-4xVwBU4EY
PARTNERS FOR A NEW BEGINNING
Apr. 27, 2010: Secretary Clinton announces the Partners for a New Beginning with Former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, Walter Isaacson and Barclay Resler, at the Department of State.
Link to Video: https://statedept.brightcovegallery.c...
Discussion Topics and Questions:
1. How did Albright describe handling issues when either party was in office? Do you think she handled herself in the best possible way? Why or why not? What do you admire most about Albright's style of diplomacy?
2. It seems like a century ago when President Obama was in office even though he was our last President before the current occupant. Did you also have a difficult time remembering all that he faced when he came into office including a severe economic crisis, two wars, violent extremism, rising nuclear threats, a potential flu pandemic, global warming, and that scourge unique to the twenty-first century: Barbary pirates with cell phones? How do you think that President Obama would have handled the current Covid 19 situation? Do you think that it would have been any better or about the same?
3. Why did PNB fail? What else could have been done to make it succeed?
Sources: Albright, Madeleine. Hell and Other Destinations (p. 212). Harper. Kindle Edition, US State Department, Gerald Ford Presidential Library on Youtube
message 312:
by
Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Sep 07, 2020 08:40PM)
(new)
-
rated it 4 stars
Mod
Paul-Henri Spaak With JFK
Belgian politician Paul-Henri Spaak (1899 - 1972, right) receives the Medal of Freedom from US President John F. Kennedy at the White House, Washington, DC, upon his retirement as Secretary-General of NATO, 21st February 1961. (Photo by Keystone/Hulton Archive/Getty Images)
Chapter Twenty-Three
R-E-S-P-E-C-T
IN 1963, BY executive order, John F. Kennedy established the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the nation’s highest civilian award. The criteria are imprecise.
To qualify, one must make “an especially meritorious contribution” to whatever purpose the president sees fit to recognize. Kennedy’s choices favored the arts and included singer Marian Anderson, author Thornton Wilder, cellist Pablo Casals, and painter Andrew Wyeth.
Tragically, before the awards ceremony could be held, Kennedy was assassinated. His successor, Lyndon Johnson, presided in his stead, distributing medals and adding posthumous honors to JFK and Pope John XXIII.
Source: Albright, Madeleine. Hell and Other Destinations (p. 222). Harper. Kindle Edition.
More:
President Obama Honors the Presidential Medal of Freedom Recipients
President Obama awards the 2011 Medals of Freedom, the highest civilian honor the United States can bestow. May 29, 2012.
Link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCAwR...
Discussion Topics and Questions:
1. What are your thoughts about the Presidential Medal of Freedom and its recipients - past and present? How tragic that President Kennedy never got to award his recipients. What are your thoughts on the memories of President Kennedy and his family? All of Kennedy's brothers and sisters are now gone; and only his daughter and her children are direct descendants of his immediate family. Of course, there are other nephews and nieces that are still alive. What are your thoughts on the contributions of John F. Kennedy as a President?
2. President Obama selected an eclectic group of recipients - why is Madeleine Albright an excellent choice for the medal?
Sources: Albright, Madeleine. Hell and Other Destinations (p. 222). Harper. Kindle Edition, Getty Images, Youtube
message 313:
by
Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Sep 08, 2020 09:14PM)
(new)
-
rated it 4 stars
Mod
The Czech Legion - MATTHEW HORSKY, WIKIMEDIA COMMONS // CC BY-SA 4.0
Chapter Twenty-Four
“You Are Just Like Your Grandmother”
THROUGHOUT OBAMA’S FIRST term, as I constantly switched hats, I also thought about moving ahead with another book. Since leaving government, I had produced Madam Secretary, The Mighty and the Almighty, Memo to the President Elect, and Read My Pins. Why stop?
There was one project I had long contemplated. Toward the end of the First World War, a legion of Czechoslovak soldiers found themselves stranded in Russia amid the Bolshevik Revolution. Unable to exit the country through an embattled Europe, the band was forced to fight its way to the Pacific along five thousand miles of the Trans-Siberian Railway.
My father had wanted to write of the odyssey and was doing research when, in 1977, he became ill and died. The soldiers’ tale was a daring one, full of diplomatic double-dealing, hairbreadth escapes, engineering miracles, and the ransoming of boxcars filled with Romanov gold.
My father recorded his notes on Dictaphone tapes that were stored in my garage. I was tempted to have a go at finishing what he had started, then reconsidered. As stirring as the saga of the legion was, the plot was light on roles for women, and my own connection to it was thin.
The more I went through the papers in my garage, the more I was pulled in by another drama, closer to home.
More:
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/5...
Discussion Topics and Questions:
1. Why do you think that Madeleine Albright wrote Prague Winter? How did you feel about Albright's revelations - why do parents and grandparents lie about their backgrounds? Why do family keep secrets? Can you imagine how Albright felt when she made discoveries about her past that she never knew about? Especially the loss of two dozen relatives?
2. How did Albright's father feel about his past? How did both Albright's father and mother shield their children from the truth and the past? Why?
3. I was especially moved by the story of Růžena Spieglová. How many of you felt similarly? I was especially moved by this quote: "When I was young and indulging my love for swimming in cold water, my mother used to exclaim, “You are just like your grandmother.” This was all I knew of Růžena. What were your thoughts when Albright learned more?
4. How do children leave their parents behind? Does anyone else understand how distraught her father and mother must have been and the burden they carried. How do you suppose Albright's maternal grandmother's letter came to be in the old box?
5. Was the brief start of the novel by Albright's father possibly autobiographical?
"Then, when searching through a box of my father’s papers in pursuit of material for Prague Winter, I came across some pages he had typed up years before; it was the draft of a short novel about a young Czechoslovak diplomat who returns home after the war.
Eagerly, the man anticipates a reunion with his mother, only to be overwhelmed by grief when he finds that she and every relative to whom he had once been close had been taken away; they were no more.
He doesn’t ask why, nor does he speculate. He knows why. In despair, he returns to his hotel and collapses, sobbing, on the bed. Later, he makes his way to the countryside, to the house in which he had lived as a boy. He knocks on the door.
A stranger answers. The young supplicant tries to explain himself, but after several awkward attempts to communicate, realizes that the man standing before him cannot hear him nor can he formulate words of his own.
The narrator finally gives up and takes his leave. As he exits, he thinks to himself that the encounter must have been a sign: “The past was to be deaf and dumb,” wrote my father. “It was to be neither heard, nor spoken.”
by
Madeleine K. AlbrightSources: Albright, Madeleine. Hell and Other Destinations (p. 230). Harper. Kindle Edition, Wikimedia
message 314:
by
Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Sep 06, 2020 07:09PM)
(new)
-
rated it 4 stars
Mod
Prague's Metropolitan Cathedral of Saint Vitus, Wenceslas and Adalbert
Chapter Twenty-Five
Leaving
“MR. PRESIDENT, MR. Prime Minister, distinguished guests from around the world, family and friends of Václav Havel, I am honored to participate with you in this celebration of an incomparable man.”
I have delivered eulogies before, but not with a heavier heart or in a three-hundred-foot-high tower, Gothic arches, and vaulted tombs, embodies the paradoxical blend of humility and grand design that characterized medieval worship.
Within its walls are the Czech crown jewels and the remains of Holy Roman emperors and Bohemian kings. The cathedral is where the history of the Czech people is witnessed and recorded. Yet, on the afternoon of December 23, 2011, Václav Havel would surely have preferred to be someplace else.
Discussion Topics and Questions:
Sources: Albright, Madeleine. Hell and Other Destinations (p. 242). Harper. Kindle Edition, Deposit Photos
message 315:
by
Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Sep 06, 2020 07:25PM)
(new)
-
rated it 4 stars
Mod
Laurel and Hardy move a piano across a rope bridge in Swiss Miss
Link to video: https://youtu.be/5ngOd-maxN4
Another movie in which Stan and Ollie move a piano but this time Stan is drunk and there is a giant gorilla in the way
Chapter Twenty-Six
Cradle of Civilization
IN ONE OF their many films, Laurel and Hardy find themselves tasked with moving a piano.
The sole path open to them is a decrepit wooden bridge strung across a ravine between a pair of mountain peaks. The bridge is narrow, barely the width of the piano turned sideways. Obviously, teamwork is essential.
With determined faces and sweaty brows, Laurel drags the piano from in front while his friend shoves from behind. They are inching their way forward when Hardy’s foot suddenly breaks through a slat.
The thickset man topples and falls until, caught by an ankle, he is left dangling headfirst over the abyss. Disaster looms. Though initially bewildered, Laurel maneuvers delicately on tiptoes around to the other side of the piano and gives his partner a lifesaving hand up.
Exhaling with relief, the duo return to their project with renewed vigor and begin at last to make headway. Then, within sight of their destination, they are confronted, between the piano and the far side of the bridge, by a gorilla. Welcome to diplomacy in the Middle East.
Discussion Topics and Questions:
Source: Albright, Madeleine. Hell and Other Destinations (p. 255). Harper. Kindle Edition, Amazon, Youtube
message 316:
by
Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Sep 06, 2020 08:07PM)
(new)
-
rated it 4 stars
Mod
Chapter Twenty-Seven
Breathless
Gallbladder disease: Mayo Clinic Radio
Link to Video:https://youtu.be/PKJBFHFxuKg
Synopsis: Dr. Bret Petersen, a gastroenterologist at Mayo Clinic, explains gallbladder disease.
THE FIRST WEEK of May 2015, I was on the way to a company retreat when my stomach dispatched an urgent 911 message to my brain.
Arrowheads seemed to be assaulting my rib cage and nausea my whole body. What was going on? To the hospital I went, scared but less panicky than I might have been. My heart seemed unaffected, and I knew that as long as I was in agony, I was still in the land of the living.
After being installed in a room, I was scrutinized by a doctor who poked me in an unhurried manner, a positive sign. Eventually, he laid down his instruments, stepped back, and said, “I think it’s your gall bladder.”
Discussion Topics and Questions:
Source: Albright, Madeleine. Hell and Other Destinations (p. 266). Harper. Kindle Edition.
message 317:
by
Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Sep 06, 2020 08:00PM)
(new)
-
rated it 4 stars
Mod
Albright campaigns for Clinton in NH
Link to Video: https://www.msnbc.com/hardball/watch/...
From left: Hillary Clinton, former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, and US Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey participated in a get-out-the-vote organizing event Saturday in Concord, N.H.JUSTIN SULLIVAN/GETTY IMAGES
Twenty-Eight
Midnight
SATURDAY NIGHT IN Concord, New Hampshire, three days before the Granite State’s 2016 Democratic presidential primary. Outside, the weather is frightful; inside the auditorium, parkas are draped across chairs, mittens dangle from sleeves, and sweaters smell pungently of melted snow. Ruddy-cheeked rallygoers stomp their heavy boots and clap. I look out upon a sea of faces and whisper a prayer of thanks.
Discussion Topics and Questions:
Sources: Albright, Madeleine. Hell and Other Destinations (p. 278). Harper. Kindle Edition, Getty Images
message 318:
by
Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Sep 07, 2020 08:25AM)
(new)
-
rated it 4 stars
Mod
Chapter Twenty-Nine
A Warning
WHEN DEFENDING THE bundle of compromises agreed to at the 1787 Constitutional Convention, Alexander Hamilton called attention to the link between the survival of freedom and a system of government based on checks and balances.
Neither can endure without the other, he writes, and both depend on the willingness of citizens to give their primary allegiance not to any party or faction but to “the evidence of truth.”
The fact that the good and the wise can be found on opposite sides of many issues, he suggests, should “furnish a lesson of moderation to those who are ever so thoroughly persuaded of their being in the right in any controversy.”
He goes on to caution that excesses of political zeal can let loose “a torrent of angry and malignant passions.” “Of those men who have overturned the liberties of republics,” he advises, “the greatest number have begun their career by paying an obsequious court to the people, commencing demagogues and ending tyrants.”
Discussion Topics and Questions:
1. What are our readers thinking when they read this paragraph?:
He goes on to caution that excesses of political zeal can let loose “a torrent of angry and malignant passions.” “Of those men who have overturned the liberties of republics,” he advises, “the greatest number have begun their career by paying an obsequious court to the people, commencing demagogues and ending tyrants.”
Sources: Albright, Madeleine. Hell and Other Destinations (p. 288). Harper. Kindle Edition, Medium
Mod
Chapter 28 - Midnight
In this chapter, Ms. Albright discusses the 2016 presidential campaign and the ultimate clash between the Clinton and the Sanders campaign, as well as the Republican contenders. An ardent supporter of Hilary Clinton, Madeleine Albright hosted many dinners where key supporters discussed the global and regional issues that they thought voters would care about. The chapter ends with her discussion of election night.
Chapter 29 - A Warning
The chapter opens with Albright reminding us of the words of Alexander Hamilton in calling our attention to the link between the survival of freedom and a system of government based on checks and balances. Albright then goes on to discuss fascism and the book she published in 2018, Fascism: A Warning exploring the origins of fascism.
by
Madeleine K. Albright
Mod
Mod
The man who hailed from a Nile Delta village and led Egypt for 30 years was eventually felled by the uprisings that swept the region in 2011
Hosni Mubarak, the former Egyptian president who was swept out of office by the Arab uprisings nine years ago after almost 30 years in power, died on February 25, 2020. He was 91 years old.
One of his two sons, businessman Alaa, tweeted earlier this week that his father had been admitted to intensive care. He asked supporters to pray for his father but did not say what was ailing the former air force commander and war hero. Security officials said he was being treated at a Nile-side military hospital in the Maadi suburb of Cairo, the Egyptian capital.
Mubarak, who hailed from a village in the Nile Delta, unexpectedly assumed the presidency of the most populous Arab nation when President Anwar Sadat was gunned down by Islamic militants during a 1981 military parade.
Then a diligent vice president, Mubarak was seated next to Sadat when the latter was gunned down. He escaped with a superficial hand wound. After such a close brush with death, Mr Mubarak cancelled the annual pomp-filled military parade marking the 1973 war with Israel.
Still, Mubarak was the target of at least six assassination attempts during his decades in power, including one in Addis Ababa in 1995 and another in the Egyptian coastal city of Port Said.
Mubarak’s knack for surviving assassination attempts was matched by his ability to hold on to power, building up a reputation as a reliable western ally, while ensuring the loyalty of the powerful military.
That worked well for Mubarak, but his grip began to loosen in the last decade of his rule. His other son, Gamal, rapidly climbed the ladder of the ruling National Democratic Party and positioned himself as his father’s heir apparent. That succession scheme did not sit well with a powerful military accustomed to presidents emerging from its own ranks.
The final straw did not come from the military but from a nascent opposition movement led and fuelled by youths outraged by the beating death of a young man by the police in the coastal city of Alexandria. An 18-day popular uprising began on January 25, 2011.
Faced with continued protests, a breakdown in law and order and a series of crippling strikes, Mubarak halted his attempts to stay in power through making political concessions and delegated his newly appointed vice president, intelligence chief Omar Suliman, to announce that he was stepping down and handing the reins of power to the military.
It was not long afterwards that Mubarak was charged alongside his security chief and several top policemen with the shooting deaths of some 800 protesters during the 2011 uprising. That case, from which he was later acquitted, brought Mubarak to the public eye for the first time since he stepped down. He sat in the defendants’ cage in an upright stretcher and wearing sunglasses, an image that he maintained during a series of court appearances for several years after his removal from power.
In 2014, Mubarak and his two sons were convicted of embezzlement, sentenced to three years in prison and fined millions of pounds. All three were eventually released for time already served.
All told, Mubarak faced six years of legal proceedings since his detention in April 2011. For the entirety of this period, he was in either a prison hospital or prestigious military medical facilities where he was treated with the respect and dignity befitting a former president.
Mubarak has continued to have the support and adulation of a significant segment of society after he left office, with many crediting him with the high GDP growth of his years, record number of foreign tourists and a foreign policy that won Egypt reliable friends in the West.
By stepping down, however, Mubarak is given credit for sparing Egypt what could have been a bloody struggle similar to that in Libya, where a 2011 uprising against Muammar Qaddafi turned into a years-long conflict.
Mubarak also refused to flee the country, selecting to stay put and face what comes his way, a stand that won him accolades as a patriot and a loyal soldier.
"This dear nation... is where I lived, I fought for it and defended its soil, sovereignty and interests. On its soil I will die. History will judge me like it did others," he told the nation in a televised address during the uprising.
Discussion Topics and Questions:
1. What were your thoughts regarding the late Mubarak? Versus the current regime in Egypt? Were you surprised by Albright's account of how the US was handling the crisis of a long time friend? Was this handled properly by President Obama? What other options did he have? Do you think that Mubarak's stepping down was in the best interests of Egypt or the United States? How did the Muslim Brotherhood get into power?
2. Was this another example of Middle Eastern debacles where what they think are two steps forward result in three steps backward? In actuality, after Mubarak was forced out even by his friend - what resulted was not a step forward for democracy. What are your thoughts? Do you think that Albright was correct about her old antagonist - Fayza Abul Naga? If so, since she is an advisor to the current president and is hostile to the United States, what does that imply about President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi?
"During the Presidential election process, under the autocratic Mubarak, NDI and groups with a similar mission were at least allowed to operate. In the new and supposedly more democratic era, they were not."
More:
https://www.americanprogress.org/issu...
Sources: N World, Albright, Madeleine. Hell and Other Destinations (p. 217). Harper. Kindle Edition.
message 322:
by
Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Sep 07, 2020 10:18PM)
(new)
-
rated it 4 stars
Mod
Marian Anderson
Marian Anderson & the Music of the Civil Rights Movement
Link to audio: https://youtu.be/YFsAiGgVNeA
President Johnson Awards Presidential of Freedom Medals
Link to video: https://youtu.be/YLIjy5QQOoY
Thornton Wilder
Thornton Wilder, novelist (left), is congratulated by President Lyndon Johnson after receiving the Presidential Medal of Freedom at the White House Dec. 6, 1963. Wilder’s home is one of the treasures of Hamden, Conn. (AP Photo/Harry Burroughs)
Lilli Palmer interviews Thornton Wilder in 1952
This is episode number 17 of Lilli Palmer's NBC daytime program. Her guest on this filmed program is Thornton Wilder who, rather than discussing his own works, discusses the Spanish playwright Lope de Vega. Interviews of Wilder are rare and it is wonderful to experience his enthusiasm for Vega.
Link to video: https://youtu.be/DEvaExHezsQ
Pablo Casals
Interview by Duffy
Link to article: https://www.duffyarchive.com/magazine...
Cellist Pablo Casals interview + performance (1955)
Link to video:https://youtu.be/fGjwWgKkVZc
Pablo Casals with President John F. Kennedy, November 13, 1961 (Photograph: Cecil Stoughton / John F. Kennedy Presidential Library and Museum, Boston)
On the death of Kennedy:
In Joys and Sorrows (public library) — his magnificent autobiography, which also gave us Casals on creative vitality and how working with love can prolong life — the beloved cellist writes of this “monstrous madness”:
I have seen much of suffering and death in my lifetime, but I have never lived through a more terrible moment. For hours I could not speak. It was as if a beautiful and irreplaceable part of the world had suddenly been torn away.
Article: https://www.brainpickings.org/2016/03...
by
Pablo CasalsAndrew Wyeth
Andrew Wyeth - CBS Interview
Charles Osgood travels to Benner Island, off the coast of Maine, for an Emmy Award-winning interview with painter Andrew Wyeth on his 80th birthday. Originally broadcast July 13, 1997.
Link to video: https://youtu.be/D0vz7Qb_UDI
Sources: YouTube, Kennedy Center Educational Digital Learning, Philadelphia Music Alliance, AP/Harry Burroughs, NBC, Duffy Archive, CBS
message 323:
by
Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Sep 08, 2020 09:25PM)
(new)
-
rated it 4 stars
Mod
In catching up with all of the reading I have been especially moved by Albright's accounts of her family and the letter she found when she was 74 years old - one that she never knew existed. Almost it would appear like a voice from the past talking with her and letting her know that she once was alive and was a vital link for Madeleine Albright to her past and to a part of herself. It was a very moving account - one where I think she understood her father more and everything that he must have endured emotionally as well as her mother. Both must have looked forward only to the future because the past had been "erased".
How very sad.
I was surprised to find that Rick Steves did a video on fascism in Europe! you can see it at https://www.ricksteves.com/watch-read...
Mod
Bentley wrote: "Hosni MubarakThe man who hailed from a Nile Delta village and led Egypt for 30 years was eventually felled by the uprisings that swept the region in 2011
Hosni Mubarak, the former Egyptian pre..."
Lawrence Wright
The questions you ask in this post are almost impossible to answer and so I've given them some thought. The bottom line is any answer would be a guess and would require a lifetime of study of Egyptian politics and even then it would still be a guess, albeit more educated than mine.
Mubarak was awful and his regime was brutal. He was a long time friend of the US out of convenience not because he was anything close to what we could consider an acceptable despot. I don't know if you ever read:
by
Lawrence WrightBut I will relate a story from this book and being 9/11 it seems appropriate, although I read this book a long time ago but this story has stuck with me due to its awfulness.
Mubarak's security forces were trying to track Ayman Al-Zahiwahri (current leader of Al-Qaeda) and his group Egyptian Islamic Jihad. So they kidnapped a 12 year old son of one of the members and raped him. Then they told him that he needed to recruit another boy, otherwise they would tell his father that he had sex with a man so his father would disown him (and maybe whip him to death). The boy did it and the second boy was also raped (again with the same story). Between the 2 boys, the security forces were able to trace the group. Al-Zahiwahri found out that the security forces found them because the 2 boys had betrayed their location. Al-Zahiwahri put the 2 boys on trial and had them tortured and put to death because they were "traitors." It is unclear how Al-Zahiwahri became so brutal but some of the people who knew him (family and neighbors) believed it was because of his absolutely horrendous treatment by Mubarak's forces. So Mubarak wasn't as much a "friend" (at least the American public would want to claim) as a convenience. So evaluating Obama's betrayal of a friend is not an easy task and I don't know what the right answer is to that one.
In terms of the Muslim Brotherhood, supposedly, they had forsworn all violence and for the year Morsi was in office nothing indicated that they were going to dismantle the democratic process (at least from news reports I read at the time). According to information also from that time, they handily won the election because Mubarak had so thoroughly repressed opposition for the 20+ years he was in power and the elections were held so quickly, no one could organize for the elections outside the Brotherhood. And since El-Sisi came to power the Brotherhood has been largely dismantled.
El-Sisi seems like he is cut out of the same cloth as Mubarak. So I assume he is at least as awful, if not worse. When it was happening, I could not understand how the people who fought to get democracy could call on him to rescue them from Morsi as prime minister. And why it was not possible to wait to the next election to see if Morsi would leave of his own accord.
But maybe like the article you copied in suggests, the Egyptian military planned it all along. Wanting to remove Mubarak and install another leader since Mubarak was trying to set up his son to inherit the presidency, rather than allowing another general from the Egyptian military to take over when he retired or died. Bottom line for me is Obama and the US was between a rock and hard place in determining what the right course of action was in this time frame. And I'm not knowledgeable enough to second guess it. And I'm just glad I wasn't the one who had to make any decisions.
message 327:
by
Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Sep 11, 2020 12:53PM)
(new)
-
rated it 4 stars
Mod
That story is brutal - one cannot comment on something so awful. Those poor boys.
I agree about the successor to Mubarak and I am not sure why they could not have waited for Morsi to leave of his own accord. But El-Sisi is also surrounded by folks who Albright has already pointed out seem out for revenge.
The article you are referring to was his obituary in N World - always check the sources posted. Unlike other groups we always post sources for text and images as well as photographs. This obituary had a great deal of information to discuss in reference to Albright's rendition in her book.
Mubarak such as he was - was better for democracy and Egypt than El Sisi is but the tactics you described though true are abhorrent and absolutely disgusting. I think Obama could have done more in this situation and did not but I am not sitting behind closed doors making those kinds of decisions. But your post was interesting and thank you for your take on the situation and taking a stab at some of the questions which should have been asked at the time.
Bentley wrote: "We have Egyptian members and I always hope they might respond too. No I did not read that particular book but it is certainly poignant today.That story is brutal - one cannot comment on something..."
It would be difficult and potentially dangerous for someone in Egypt to respond to your questions. Having made the mistake asking someone from Guatemala in the early 1980s what he thought of the situation in his country (when the right wing death squads held full reign), I learned that lesson when I was young. I had taken a course in my undergraduate program on the situation in Central America, we were in graduate school and I was very interested in what someone from the country had to say given they would know far better than me from just taking a class. He looked at me in horror and needless to say the guy never spoke to me again.
Kathy wrote: "Bentley wrote: "We have Egyptian members and I always hope they might respond too. No I did not read that particular book but it is certainly poignant today.That story is brutal - one cannot comm..."
We don't know how lucky we are not to have to worry about it. That's why I can't believe people today are taking assaults against our institutions so lightly. They think they can't fall. Well, they can and they will if we don't protect them.
chapter 28 was hard to read for me, so many disappointing memories of which we are still suffering... i can only imagine how difficult it was for Madeleine to write it...
message 331:
by
Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Sep 11, 2020 04:17PM)
(new)
-
rated it 4 stars
Mod
That story is brutal - one cannot comm..."
I disagree Kathy. There are many Egyptians who are not living in Egypt any longer without fear of reprisals because family members are with them in other locations. And during the Arab Spring we had many Egyptians who did post about what was going in. We are a large global community and we welcome everyone's input. It is probably best not to prod them for personal details however.
I think your situation would probably make anyone apprehensive but when folks are not put on the spot and offer information on their own - that usually dictates a better result - because they want to discuss it and open up and they are aware of their surroundings.
message 332:
by
Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Sep 11, 2020 04:18PM)
(new)
-
rated it 4 stars
Mod
That story is brutal - o..."
The Pope warned America and Americans about individualism and he is right (JMHO)
Ok if they are Egyptians that meet all those requirements where there is no fear.
The guy I was talking to was here on a student visa and his family was still in Guatemala.
I have certainly spoken to people whose family was out and they were willing to talk and give you their perspective.
message 336:
by
Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Sep 11, 2020 04:28PM)
(new)
-
rated it 4 stars
Mod
Marc - those disappointing memories that I pointed out about her family and her grandmother's letter to her mother as well as her father's draft of a novel were heart breaking. All of those wonderful lives just "erased". How can humanity be so cruel.
That is why some of the language, tone and the lack of being on the look out for your community are so very disheartening now in America. The attitude you hear is that it is all about their personal liberties and what they want to do!!! How about pitching in for the common good so that everyone is safe. We are all in the same boat and need each other.
I’ve spoken to many Iranians, Vietnamese, etc who have had no problem giving me their opinions on things. All of them they have no family left in country who were at risk. I’ve had others that I was friendly with that said I’ve got family there and then I stop asking.
Mod
Mod
There are many who left and are elsewhere.
Mod
That would be hard.
Mod
Yes and some give it anyway. I think the burden is too hard for some folks to bear.
Mod
Marc, I agree. That night I was a poll watcher and we still had people as far as we could see at 7 p.m. and all were given cards to ensure that they would be able to vote; by 9 p.m. we had them all inside the polling place and by 11:30 p.m. the last vote was cast. It was on the way home that I heard the dire results. You are so right that this must have been a very difficult chapter for Albright as they were close friends, colleagues, and alumnae of Wellesley.
message 343:
by
Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Sep 14, 2020 07:15AM)
(new)
-
rated it 4 stars
Mod
Week Fifteen: September 14th - September 20th (pages 296 - 314
Chapter 30 - Unhinged (page 296)
Chapter 31 - Renewal (page 306)
Note: The pagination above is the Kindle pagination. If you have a hardcopy or paperback version - pagination may vary.
Mod
Chapter 30 - Unhinged
This chapter opens when Secretary Albright is in Versailles for a meeting of the Aspen Ministers Forum in June 2018. They all shared the conviction designed by our forefathers was a strong one and based on transatlantic partnerships, democratic values, open economies, arms control and human rights. They also discussed the importance of a sustainable immigration policy for both the United States and Europe. Albright also covers when she went to Central Europe to observe the twentieth anniversary of NATO enlargement and then on to give a speech in Warsaw, Poland followed by a visit to Prague. There is a good discussion of the pressing issues of the economy and trade as well as national security concerns.
Chapter 31 - Renewal
In this chapter Madeleine Albright begins with her attendance in historic Williamsburg after the 2018 election to meet with the incoming class of the U.S. House of Representatives. She was encouraged by the positive communication among the parties. However, she goes on to note that that was not the norm once they returned to Washington D.C. Albright then explores the possible causes for this as well as possible solutions.
I just finished Chapter 31. I sincerely hope we take the off ramps she suggests to save our democracy. I'm not overly hopeful these days but there is always a possibility that there are enough people in the country who feel the same way she does. I wholeheartedly agree with her analysis and her thoughts.
Mod
Mod
Week Sixteen: September 21st - September 27th (pages 314 - 333)
Chapter 32 - Shadows and Light (page 314)
Journal of Ruzena Speiglova - (page 324)
Note: The pagination above is the Kindle pagination.
Mod
Chapter 32 - Shadows and Light
This chapter opens with Secretary Albright reflecting on aging and how she has approached her life since leaving the State Department. In talking about her varied activities she stresses that the through line connecting all of her interests is the involvement of using her voice to advocate for causes in which she believes. In talking to a class of eleven-year olds, Ms. Albright reflects on her belief that much of that young girl still remains in her.
Journal of Ruzena Spiglova
In this chapter we read the journal of Ruzena Spieglova beginning in January 1942 relating the events happening to their family since the departure of Andulko. She relates that they are waiting to be moved to a camp. The journal relates her life and the circumstances through April 22, 1942.
Mod
Lorna, I agree but it was very sad to read knowing what the outcome was. Given all the sad news, I think my next book has to be a little less emotionally charged. I thought the book was great and I really enjoyed reading it. I’m glad she is such an optimist. It gives me some hope. Kathy
The History Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
The Looming Tower: Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11 (other topics)Prague Winter: A Personal Story of Remembrance and War, 1937-1948 (other topics)
Joys and Sorrows: Reflections by Pablo Casals (other topics)
Fascism: A Warning (other topics)
The Last Palace: Europe's Turbulent Century in Five Lives and One Legendary House (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Lawrence Wright (other topics)Madeleine K. Albright (other topics)
Pau Casals (other topics)
Madeleine K. Albright (other topics)
Neil Gaiman (other topics)
More...
Good for you Marc. There are a lot of sidebar conversations and interesting events and people to also discuss. Albright has a conversational style.