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The Life of Charles Dickens
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Group Side Read - The Life of Charles Dickens: Volume 1 by John Forster
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Cozy_Pug wrote: ".Lol, it seems odd we'd both misremember the same thing :D.."I know. But you gave some evidence that we didn't completely forget everything.
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Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
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I guess a relationship as intense as Charles Dickens and John Forster's would be bound to have some quarrelsome moments - like any close partnership or marriage - but these seem like spats, don't they? It does cast a slightly different character on John Forster's rosy hued tones though.
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Probably why I feel reluctant to read the Forster biography, I’ll be wondering what is being left out or glossed over".
I agree the Victorian Age was an age of hypocrisy, in social terms (although we do have our hypocrisies now too - just different ones!)
Please don't avoid the John Forster biography because you want a "warts and all" experience though - you would be missing out on so much which is unique! It is by far the most comprehensive, and you can fill in the rest from the more recent biographies. After all, Peter Ackroyd's complete one is stellar - a breathtaking achievement - which almost singlehandedly altered the course of biographies. But it includes quite a lot of speculation about the man; it is not wholly objective and impartial, but we still read it avidly.
So having said that, this is the thread to discuss The Life of Charles Dickens : Volume I. For those who have completed it and are moving on, the next part of this biography will be moved into the current reads folder shortly.
I think it is fine to read Forster with the understanding that this is a friend and there will not be full impartiality in his writing. It is worth the reading just for the letters they exchanged, which are unaltered, so reveal a great deal of what is true about about these men.I found the same flaw existed in Elizabeth Gaskell's biography of Charlotte Bronte, but I am still very glad I read it. There is a softer, more intimate side to these people that only a friend could really provide us. Looking forward to Volume II.
Sara wrote: "I think it is fine to read Forster with the understanding that this is a friend and there will not be full impartiality in his writing. It is worth the reading just for the letters they exchanged, ..."
I'm very excited to read the letters - I think Forster's biographies of Dickens are goldmines for that alone!
I'm very excited to read the letters - I think Forster's biographies of Dickens are goldmines for that alone!
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I've finished chapters 1 and 2 of Forster's bio and enjoying so much the connections with David Copperfield. And I am loving seeing where names and personalities of characters came from. The excerpts from the letters Dickens wrote to his friend read as if I'm reading another one of his works. It's neat to see the actual wording in both the letters and DC during the time when he was a child working in the blacking warehouse. I can just imagine little Charles walking into the public house asking "What's your very best the VERY best - ale, a glass?" "Then draw me a glass of that, if you please, with a good head to it." And then the strange look the bartender must have given him!
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Lori wrote: "I've finished chapters 1 and 2 of Forster's bio and enjoying so much the connections with David Copperfield. And I am loving seeing where names and personalities of characters came from.
The exce..."
Isn't that hysterical?! I love that story about a glass of the best ale :D
The exce..."
Isn't that hysterical?! I love that story about a glass of the best ale :D
Reading Dickens' notes to Forster, asking him to come out with him - I love these! You can feel his energy and how vibrant he is. And some of the lines he wrote are stunning, almost poetic - and it's just a note asking a friend to come out with him!
"Is it possible that you can't, oughtn't, shouldn't, mustn't, won't be tempted, this gorgeous day?"
"Come, come, come, and walk in the green lanes. You will work the better for it all the week. Come!"
Who could say no to that?
"Is it possible that you can't, oughtn't, shouldn't, mustn't, won't be tempted, this gorgeous day?"
"Come, come, come, and walk in the green lanes. You will work the better for it all the week. Come!"
Who could say no to that?
Cozy, thanks for sharing. That is beautiful and poetic, as you say. He's having so much fun.... "Let's go for a walk" is too pedestrian for Dickens. :))
Anne (On semi-hiatus) wrote: "Cozy, thanks for sharing. That is beautiful and poetic, as you say. He's having so much fun....
"Let's go for a walk" is too pedestrian for Dickens. :))"
LOL!! True, and also a brilliant pun :D
"Let's go for a walk" is too pedestrian for Dickens. :))"
LOL!! True, and also a brilliant pun :D
lol at this conversation (also liked the pun). I'd walk with anyone who asked me to in such glowing prose.
Sara wrote: "lol at this conversation (also liked the pun). I'd walk with anyone who asked me to in such glowing prose."
Me too! If I got a text like that, I'd be halfway out the door before I could send my "yes" reply!
I also get the feeling that with Dickens' vibrant energy and force of personality, it would be hard to say no to him - whether it's an invite to ride, walk, dinner, theatre, traveling. He seems irresistible - not in a romantic way, but in the way of being someone people want to spend time with.
After the last two Dickens' bios I read, I definitely feel myself being swayed by Forster's friendship and affection for Dickens.
Me too! If I got a text like that, I'd be halfway out the door before I could send my "yes" reply!
I also get the feeling that with Dickens' vibrant energy and force of personality, it would be hard to say no to him - whether it's an invite to ride, walk, dinner, theatre, traveling. He seems irresistible - not in a romantic way, but in the way of being someone people want to spend time with.
After the last two Dickens' bios I read, I definitely feel myself being swayed by Forster's friendship and affection for Dickens.
Finished Vol. 1 this evening - loved it! The letters are amazing - those just can't be beat for getting a feel for Dickens the man, Dickens the friend.
I can't wait to start Vol. 2!
I can't wait to start Vol. 2!
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This is partly why it holds its own, even now we have more "complete" bios of Charles Dickens, which show he had feet of clay like anyone else. John Forster's The Life of Charles Dickens : Volume I has a charm and respect all its own, and is unique in all the personal memories and letters he could share.
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Dickens, unlike other famous authors, never left a Body of Work - about his body of work (so to speak), he maintained that literature should always ‘speak for itself’. Even the Prefaces to his novels are relatively sparse, so it’s hard, when looking at Dickens’ works in isolation, to grasp his philosophy on art, literature, politics - life. To get a better understanding of the abstract Dickens, modern scholars have turned to his letters in contrast with his role as Journal Editor and proprietor, essayist and journalist.But in 1872 there was little option for those wanting to learn and understand more about Dickens after his death in 1870, in fact there was just a single option, Forster’s ‘Life’. It was a revelation, the ‘Blacking Factory’, his father’s imprisonment, his relative poverty, sister/mother envy and all that. Then fast-forward about 150yrs (so still early days yet) and it’s evident that Forster’s ‘Life’ is equally significant in what it doesn’t say of Dickens; Ellen Ternan, ill treatment of his wife, his dubious fatherhood as his kids (the boys) got older, and so on. Not only that, but Forster’s hacking and fusion of some letters, his cutting out (literally) the text of Dickens’ letters and pasting them, scrapbook-style, throughout the bio, interpolating his own words, deleting a word here and there, and even destroying parts of letters ie cutting bits out with scissors and discarding the rest are disappointing. And his just about always complying with the demands of Georgina and Mamie, make it little wonder that, by today’s standards, ‘Life’, excellent though much of it is, has nevertheless some serious short-comings
In March 1878 Georgina, Dickens' sister-in-law, announced that she proposed to edit and publish a collection of his letters:
"with the help of [Mamie Dickens]", and that “It will be a sort of supplement to Mr Forster's "Life"—That was exhaustive as a Biography—leaving nothing to be said ever more, in my opinion.” And after that display of staggering arrogance she then contradicts herself in the very next sentence, and says that she believes Forster’s ‘Life’ was ‘universally felt to be incomplete as a Portrait’ as the scheme of the book “prevented his making use of any letters [other than] those that were addressed to himself”
So even the partisan daughter and daughter-in-law in the late 1800s recognised a majour flaw in Forster’s ‘Life’ - even so, the ‘editing’ of the subsequent (and very selective) letters is generous. And after her announcement scores of letters written by Dickens started pouring into Georgina’s mail box, and within the first 2wks she writes to T E Weller saying:
"We are receiving, every day, quantities of letters, and, as yet, it is quite impossible for us to make any plan of what we are to use”, and thanked him for the letter he’d forwarded to her but advised that his letter was , “too entirely personal to be suitable for publication”, though they do both openly admit to having “cut and condensed remorselessly" - So much for their idea of a ‘complete portrait’
Forster was dead by this time, and it seems that Georgina and Mamie returned the favour by not printing the letter containing the slightly malicious ‘Madame Tussaud and Forster next to Chamber of Horrors ’ joke
However, most people in 19c only new Dickens the author, so Forster’s ‘Life’ gave the public access to a more 3 dimensional Dickens, his staggering abundance of energy, his brilliance and charm, his habits and obsessions, his generosity, altruism, and, of course, his genius. And in spite of the inordinate amount of favour Forster shows for Dickens he doesn’t portray him entirely as a saint, and in fact deals with some of Dickens (sometimes self-destructive) contradictions
My own copy of ‘Life’ is the later 2 vol Dent edition, so the print is quite small (I wouldn't recommend investing in small text vols, it makes reading tedious), but it was initially printed in 3vols, not least because of the Lending Libraries preferred the 3 tier (they were hired to subscribers as individual vol). With the advent of social media, text, messaging etc, we’re more attuned to terser writing, but 19c authors tended to adopt a ‘why use 3-4 words when a dozen with do nicely’ ethos: Forster excels on that one, and I admit it's a real effort to tolerate it.
‘Life’ is absolutely worth reading, there’s gold nuggets and gems in it right throughout. Many people who’ve read ‘Life’ say that they were most fascinated by the letters between Dickens and Forster, and that’s what I like the most too. But I would now add the caveat of reading ‘Life’ in conjunction with something like Jenny Hartley’s Selected Letters or David Paroissien’s Dickens Selected Letters (I haven’t read this latter, but it’s on my ‘to read’ list).
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Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
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I assume that you think there is no unifying thread in Charles Dickens's oeuvre, although the obvious meaning of an author's "body of work" is just their total output. Also if I consider whether there is a consistency in his thoughts and attitudes and and unifying themes, I would have to say yes there is, again! So I'm sorry to pick holes in your very first sentence but Charles Dickens did leave a "body of work" in both these senses.
Your comments about the literary climate at the time, and the sanitised version of John Forster's thoughts are good. We discussed how a friend would be inclined to write kindly, just as Mrs. Elizabeth Gaskell did for her friend Charlotte Brontë - especially when there were other family members (in her case Charlotte's father, the parson Brontë) breathing down their neck. You have amplified this nicely for us. And yes, most of us considered that the letters are by far the most interesting parts. Selections of his letter are all very well, and Jenny Hartley makes a good selection; nevertheless it is interesting to have them put in some sort of context. We have been surprised just how many letters there were to John Forster alone; sometimes more than one a day!
As I said elsewhere, we are reading this in 3 parts, so it was interesting to hear your comment on this. I assume since your substantial comment here covers the entire work and also the circumstances, you will now move straight to part 3 (although you are welcome to comment on part 2!) We will read part 3 some time in 2022, and I hope you will reread this section of The Life of Charles Dickens along with us and comment as we go.
Thanks Jean, I’m just checking over the threads in these side reads to work out where I should be putting my comments, I’m also guarding against ‘spoilers’. I’m off the weekend so I’m looking forward to dabbling a bit more on the forum …“I assume that you think there is no unifying thread in Charles Dickens's oeuvre”
I’m not sure I agree there’s any single source of Dickens’ that would qualify as an explanation of his works, I’m not even sure that I’d agree that Dickens was anything like consistent throughout his works (including his essays/journalism) - take just the one example of Capital Punishment where he went from an (excellent) anti-capital punishment advocate to the diametrically opposite pro-string-em-up campaign, even suggesting that he’d carry out such retribution himself. His views on Semitism changed as well as his views on different social classes, especially his somewhat erratic stance on the middle-classes (comparing his earlier works with his later stuff).
Reading some of his journal articles it would seem that he, at times, felt constrained by the prudish Victorian attitudes, although you’d never guess such a thing from reading his novels, if anything, Dickens often sounded prudish himself in his prefaces - Oliver Twist and causing ‘young people to blush’ and all that. None of this can be entirely grasped from his works because much of his journalism v novels is contradictory, or at least not consistent. His struggle can only be put in some context when taken in conjunction with his letters.
“We have been surprised just how many letters there were to John Forster alone”
I know it seems that the volume of letters to Forster is overwhelming, but it’s no accident that Dickens wrote to him almost daily. When Dickens dropped the idea of writing his own bio (though there is the fragment) it was agreed that Forster would do it, and therefore Dickens’ letters to him are actually his (Dickens’) bio. When he wrote to Forster it was a given, unless expressly stated, that his letters were his story for Forster to interpret
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Thank you! That is very important to many here.
"I’m not sure I agree there’s any single source of Dickens’ that would qualify as an explanation of his works"
This puzzles me almost as much as you saying he doesn't have a "body of work", as I explained. A "source of Dickens"? No - sorry we are going to have to leave this, as it's not to do with the thread, and I can't get a handle on what you mean.
His views may have changed a little throughout his life, just as everyone's do, but Charles Dickens's core concerns (conditions of the poor, unfair practices, pernicious elements of the law etc.) remained strong and passionate. He was no more inconsistent than the rest of us, so of course we can look back and assess his views and feelings about life.
Yes, Charles Dickens said he wanted John Forster to write his biography - and nobody else - but only after David Copperfield was published. (We talk a lot about the fragments of his autobiography included almost word for word there in the original group discussion threads.) And that was in 1849, as you know. They were friends for far longer than that, so I don't really think the early letters to John Forster can have been with an eye to posterity and publication!
It's well documented that Charles Dickens looked up to John Forster and viewed him as his mentor. Some of the letters were asking advice, and some were simple friendship. All of the letters in this volume were much earlier ... from memory I think it goes up to about 1841, as the second volume begins around the time of American Notes For General Circulation (1842).
So only the later ones in other volumes could conceivably have been intended for the purpose you said - but it's still a bit of a stretch! Surely Charles Dickens was just writing to his friend as he always had done.
Otherwise, you make some nice points :)
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If not, do have a look 😊. His best friend John Forster was the only person Charles Dickens trusted to write his biography! I'm sure we'd love to know what you think of it.
I have all three volumes, Jean, but haven’t been able to start them. They remain a future project and part of my plans.
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I’m hoping for later this year. My reading has been off a bit lately, slower than normal, but hopefully will approach normal before long.
I’m jumping in to Vol 1 The Life of Charles Dickens! We are about to begin Oliver Twist, but since I have read that novel multiple times, this Forster biography will make a good side read for me.
Lee, I'm looking forward to your comments and revisiting the book with you.
Hello, everyone! I cannot express the extent of my delight with The Life of Charles Dickens, Vol. 1! I began reading slowly, as I did not want to read spoilers for the novels I have not yet read (Nicholas Nickelby, Barnaby Rudge, and The Old Curiosity Shop, so I have been skipping chapters.However, Forester does a marvelous job of relating stories about Charles Dickensand sharing with us many of the letters which Dickens addressed to him alone. What a giant spirit of generosity we find in John Forster that he was so willing to share with us everything he knew about Dickens!
I love the insight into the early days of Charles Dickens, and particularly I have enjoyed Chapter XIX "First Impressions of America, 1842". Being an American whose ancestors settled in Boston in the early 17th century, and has family now living in Boston, AND having visited it myself summer of '22, it was exciting to read his reactions upon Arrival at Boston and the reception he received from Bostonians--General Characteristics!
He wrote to Forester after his steamship arrived in the harbor, "And what do you think of their tearing violently up to me and beginning to shake hands like madmen?" This made me laugh, as I can imagine today how we Americans barely repress our enthusiasms over a famous and welcome guest. But the Bostonians went far and above a friendly greeting. "How can I give you the faintest notion of my reception here, of the crowds that pour in and out the whole day; of the people that line the streets when I go out; of the cheering when I went to the theatre; ....welcomes of all kinds, balls, dinners, assemblies without end?"
And indeed I hope one of my ancestors was there in the crowd in 1842 to greet him!
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I too think there are some treasures of writing in John Forster's biography. Often the personally directed letters by Dickens do seem to capture the moment better than his essays, and we have such a strong sense of immediacy, whether excitement, humour, expectation or even anger; it is irresistible!
For those who have not read this, do give it a try when you can!
I definitely plan to, Jean. The books are waiting on my kindle. Now I need that quiet time I keep promising myself with little or no scheduled reading.
Lee, I enjoy Forster's telling of his friendship with Dickens. He manages to convey tiny details that we wouldn't otherwise be privy to. Little things that only friends would know and that would never find their way into a biography (other than one written by a friend, such as this one). The letters are marvelous. They really show Dickens' personality and quirks.
Lee and Sue, I'm glad you revived this thread.
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Books mentioned in this topic
The Old Curiosity Shop (other topics)Barnaby Rudge (other topics)
The Life of Charles Dickens, Vol. 1 (other topics)
Nicholas Nickelby (other topics)
American Notes for General Circulation (other topics)
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John Forster (other topics)John Forster (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
John Forster (other topics)
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Lol, it seems odd we'd both misremember the same thing :D