Dickensians! discussion
This topic is about
The Life of Charles Dickens
Side Reads
>
Group Side Read - The Life of Charles Dickens: Volume 1 by John Forster
Connie wrote: "I was surprised about all the letters mentioning spitting tobacco, and see why Dickens would find it disgusting. I guess chewing tobacco must have been very popular at that time. (Baseball players ..."I'm sure Major League Baseball made players switch from tobacco to bubble gum, or maybe sunflower seeds (messy!) at least during games.
In the 1830's, Margaret Fuller (an interesting character in her own right) traveled to the "Far West" - Milwaukee!
Robin, Major League Baseball has been trying to rid the ballparks of chewing tobacco during the last ten years. I think the risk of spitting with COVID now will make them ban it in all the ballpark cities.I can see why Dickens was getting upset with people spitting tobacco on the carpets.
Here's a Sports Illustrated article from two years ago:
https://www.si.com/mlb/2018/07/23/sta...
Well, I guess that's enough about Dickens and spitting tobacco!!!
message 154:
by
Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited Jul 18, 2020 09:56AM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Mod
It seems strange to think of him standing by a loch, such as the beautiful Loch Earn, as Charles Dickens seems so caught up in city life. I can only think of a few stories where he doesn't go back to London or another city.
Here's the stunning Loch Earn:
And Loch Awe - I think he went here earlier too:
I wasn't keen on the descriptions of all the worthies, who have now been forgotten - or the politics ditto. I'm sure they were apt studies though!
The second picture could represent what Dickens saw, there’s no modern addition in it.
Mod
(I saw it like this too, when I climbed above Lochearnhead :) But I never thought that I might be standing where Charles Dickens had!)
message 157:
by
Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited Jul 31, 2020 12:14PM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Mod
The worst parts for me were all the Politics, and talk of well-known figures of the day, who are now largely forgotten. And the best were Charles Dickens describing events which we may or may not come across elsewhere. It was a surprise to me just how often these two were in touch - they seem to have written to each other almost on a daily basis, sometimes.
What did get me about the people John Forster talks about is that sometimes he only uses the last name and so I couldn't find them; other times I just think that they were not important enough in the long run to actually be in wikipedia or the likes. I guess he did think everybody would know who he was referencing and didn't think that he would be read long in the future (or he predicted the internet and knew we could look it up someday... probably not).
Mod
I finished this today and was sorrow to have missed the discussion, although I read all the postings as I progressed. I admit to being glad to put it behind me, although I found it interesting and appreciated reading Dickens' letters very much.
message 161:
by
Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited Aug 06, 2020 02:37AM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Mod
I agree with you, probably a volume of his letters would be interesting to read there's so many books on his letters! Maybe The Selected Letters of Charles Dickens by Jenny Hartley or something like that, Jean? But I'm sure your next choice for side read will be very interesting.
message 163:
by
Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited Aug 06, 2020 12:41PM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Mod
At first it wasn't in accessible formats though, and is still pricey on kindle (nearly £10 here!) Plus we need to ring the changes. So not for a couple of years, probably.
I checked for fun and it's 7.77 pounds (have no idea where that symbol is!) at 13.59$ CAD in Kobo (I'm more of a Kobo fan than Kindle, I just subscribed to Kobo Plus this month, it's new but it's like Kindle Unlimited).
Mod
Right, I'll get off my soapbox now.
DO NOT START ME ON THIS. French books are the same price paper or ebooks... like 30$, I am not paying that. It’s one of the big reason why I learned english, the books are half the price of french books.
Mod
BTW, found Jenny Hartley's collection of Dickens letters on archive.org (not under Hartley but under Dickens). However, it appears to be the only copy, and so can only be borrowed for an hour (as opposed to 14 day option which they usually have). This is my next read, but first want to finish with John Forster. I got through Part 2, and will be starting Part 3 soon.
message 170:
by
Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited Aug 14, 2020 12:57PM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Mod
Jean, some books can be borrowed with no time limit (classics usually), and John Forster's book is one of them. The way it's presented on archive.org, there are 3 parts, each about 500 pages. I have yet to see about Dickens' letters yet. Maybe they will have more copies on archive.org by the time I get to it. I will take a little break - as our analysts would say, I am a little "over-indexed" on Dickens, but then plan to come back to his letters.
Mod
This is one of my favorite passages so farIn Genoa, and thereabouts, they train the vines on trellis work, supported on square clumsy pillars, which, in themselves, are anything but picturesque. But, here, they twine them around trees... and the vineyards are full of trees, regularly planted for this purpose, each with its own vine twining and clustering about it. Their leaves are now of the brightest gold and deepest red; and never was anything so enchantingly graceful and full of beauty.
Mod
Now that we are coming to the end of our second main read of a novel, perhaps we will have a few more joining in our side reads :)
Mod
message 177:
by
Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited May 22, 2021 01:58AM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Mod
Thanks Jean. I couldn’t decide for a long time about which biography shall I start but finally decided on this because the writer was friends with Dickens.
Mod
I'm finishing up Claire Tomalin's bio hopefully today, then I'll begin on JF Vol. 1. Looking forward to the letters. In the two bios I've read thus far, there's only been lines or an extended passage of letters.
Mod
The letters were really interesting. Very Dickens. He has such a way of describing things and putting his thoughts down on paper.
Petra wrote: "The letters were really interesting. Very Dickens. He has such a way of describing things and putting his thoughts down on paper."What stood out for me in the letters Tomalin quoted was how well Dickens was able to express his loving feelings for his friend. I know a lot of other letters were unfortunately destroyed, but I'm left with the impression that Dickens had a very special relationship with Forster which he didn't have with his own wife or kids or even Nelly. For those of you who have read other bios do I have the wrong impression?
message 184:
by
Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited May 23, 2021 01:08PM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Mod
That's quite right Anne, and it comes through particularly in John Forster's huge biography of Charles Dickens. Since he was able to share many of his own personal letters, we read over and over again the times when Charles Dickens said how invaluable their friendship was to him. He would write him a letter even when they were going out horse-riding together later! Or if Charles Dickens was somewhere with his wife, he would write to John Forster instead, saying how much he missed him, and wanted to talk to him. He wrote him from boats, railway carriages, hotels or home - from anywhere!
That's really why John Forster is thought of more as a mentor. Charles Dickens ran everything past him first in terms of his writing, and trusted John Forster implicitly. I believe that is the reason why we don't read of Nelly Ternan in John Forster's biography. He was still looking out for, and protecting his friend.
Jean, that's so interesting that he would write to Forster from so many different places. It sounds like Forster was more of an anchor than I knew. It will be interesting to read Forster vol 1. I have read some of Dickens' letters to Forster in Tomalin's bio, but was probably just a taste.
Mod
I'm glad you're reading his biography, Anne :) I'll move part 2 from the upcoming folder into the current reads folder in a couple of days too.
Bionic Jean wrote: "John Forster must have been such a strong, patient, tolerant person! Charles Dickens even "painted" an unflattering portrait of him in one of his novels! He seemed to..."Which character is John Forster? I wonder why he'd an unflattering portrait of the friend he loved and needed so much. Any thoughts on that?
Mod
He is depicted as an extremely pompous upper middle class man called (view spoiler) in Our Mutual Friend. It does seem a very cruel thing to do.
Bionic Jean wrote: "Anne (On semi-hiatus) wrote: "Which character is John Forster? ..."He is depicted as an extremely pompous upper middle class man called [spoilers removed] in Our Mutual Friend. It do..."
Yes. I wonder what was going on then. What an ironic title. He wasn't a very good mutual friend to Forster with that act of creation.
Mod
Bionic Jean wrote: "Fortunately he's quite a minor character - but it must have been unmistakable. Charles Dickens said that it wasn't a portrait - but that he had just taken some mannerisms from him. ..."I think most people would have been hurt. Perhaps he understood his friend enough to just let that one pass him by. I hope some of Forster's personality comes through in his bio. I could have sworn that I read in the Tomalin bio about a brief period during which Forster and Dickens didn't speak. But if you don't know about that my memory must be wrong.
Mod
Bionic Jean wrote: "I don't know everything Anne! But I do wonder if you're thinking of another friend, eg. Wilkie Collins as they were always having little squabbles. Charles Dickens dis..."I don't think I could have confused Wilkie Collins for anyone else since I'm a huge fan. But who knows? I do recall Dickens' disapproval of WC living with his mistress. Another irony. I'm not sure if WC was still living with his mistress when Dickens was with his mistress and doing everything to hide it including publishing a letter in the newspaper denying a relationship with Ternan which until that time no one knew about. :))
Mod
Bionic Jean wrote: "Yes, so ironic - and a little hypocritical, I think. If you track down who you were thinking of, please do let us know, Anne :)"Yes, hypocritical.
Ok. If anyone else read Tomalin's bio perhaps they call. I listened to it so it would be very difficult to find the place where that is discussed.
Mod
Bionic Jean wrote: "I have it Anne, but don't recall any friction between them. When we eventually read it as a group I'll reread it and write a review :)"Great.
Didn’t Wilkie Collins maintain two households, a family in each?It seems to me they weren’t just protecting Dickens, the man, Forster and his family were all protecting the whole public image that Dickens had created for himself and his work. Definitely hypocritical but very Victorian!
Probably why I feel reluctant to read the Forster biography, I’ll be wondering what is being left out or glossed over.
Anne (On semi-hiatus) wrote: "Bionic Jean wrote: "Yes, so ironic - and a little hypocritical, I think. If you track down who you were thinking of, please do let us know, Anne :)"
Yes, hypocritical.
Ok. If anyone else read To..."
I also feel like there was a distinct time when Dickens and Forster weren't speaking. But scanning through Tomalin, all I could find was -
Chapter 6 - "Over their subsequent lifelong friendship Dickens sometimes mocked Forster and quarrelled furiously with him,"
Chapter 15 - "They had their fallings out. Macready reports a quarrel in the autumn of 1847, and there were to be more, for Dickens could tease and impose on Forster, Forster could disapprove of Dickens’s behaviour, and their political views diverged somewhat, but their friendship and trust in one other always restored itself."
Chapter 18 - "His friendship with Forster was also going through a cooler patch. Dickens sometimes allowed himself the licence to be brutally frank, as when, after hearing Forster give a lecture of two and a half hours on the seventeenth-century statesman Strafford, he sent him a critical letter, telling him he had talked down to his audience, ‘like a schoolmaster teaching very young children, which I think a London audience would undoubtedly be resentful of’; and that, like most biographers, he was too ready to invest his subject with all the virtues. He advised him to cut half an hour out of the lecture. Apart from that, he said, it was excellent. Forster was wounded; Dickens apologized and was forgiven."
If I come across it or happen to remember it, I'll post. I keep thinking they stopped speaking for a while when Dickens started spending more time with Collins, traveling with him - but that may be a faulty memory lol
Yes, hypocritical.
Ok. If anyone else read To..."
I also feel like there was a distinct time when Dickens and Forster weren't speaking. But scanning through Tomalin, all I could find was -
Chapter 6 - "Over their subsequent lifelong friendship Dickens sometimes mocked Forster and quarrelled furiously with him,"
Chapter 15 - "They had their fallings out. Macready reports a quarrel in the autumn of 1847, and there were to be more, for Dickens could tease and impose on Forster, Forster could disapprove of Dickens’s behaviour, and their political views diverged somewhat, but their friendship and trust in one other always restored itself."
Chapter 18 - "His friendship with Forster was also going through a cooler patch. Dickens sometimes allowed himself the licence to be brutally frank, as when, after hearing Forster give a lecture of two and a half hours on the seventeenth-century statesman Strafford, he sent him a critical letter, telling him he had talked down to his audience, ‘like a schoolmaster teaching very young children, which I think a London audience would undoubtedly be resentful of’; and that, like most biographers, he was too ready to invest his subject with all the virtues. He advised him to cut half an hour out of the lecture. Apart from that, he said, it was excellent. Forster was wounded; Dickens apologized and was forgiven."
If I come across it or happen to remember it, I'll post. I keep thinking they stopped speaking for a while when Dickens started spending more time with Collins, traveling with him - but that may be a faulty memory lol
Cozy_Pug wrote: "Anne (On semi-hiatus) wrote: "Bionic Jean wrote: "Yes, so ironic - and a little hypocritical, I think. If you track down who you were thinking of, please do let us know, Anne :)"Thank you for supplying some examples, Cozy. I'm glad you also have the same faulty memory that Dickens and Forster weren't speaking. :))
Dickensians!
Books mentioned in this topic
The Old Curiosity Shop (other topics)Barnaby Rudge (other topics)
The Life of Charles Dickens, Vol. 1 (other topics)
Nicholas Nickelby (other topics)
American Notes for General Circulation (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
John Forster (other topics)John Forster (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
John Forster (other topics)
More...
I did enjoy the parts about Glencoe though, as I have been there on a beautifully sunny day. It is supposed to have an oppressive atmosphere, and I thought it was magnificent, with huge looming mountains, but couldn't understand why my parents thought it so gloomy and full of foreboding. I think they visited on the sort of day Dickens did. It must have been terrifying! He and Catherine could so easily have lost their lives.
To add a bit of history - Glencoe was the scene of one of the most infamous massacres in Scottish history. On a cold February day in 1692, the Clan MacDonald of Glencoe were slaughtered while they slept, by Captain Robert Campbell and his men.