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The Life of Charles Dickens
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Group Side Read - The Life of Charles Dickens: Volume 1 by John Forster
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John
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Jun 06, 2020 06:47AM
I enjoyed Jane Smiley’s biography of Dickens. What is nice about it is that it is not a retelling of the life as much as it is a study of his books. So she frames the life with the books leading the way. You get a sense of his timeline through the particular novel. And Smiley is a novelist herself, so her analysis of each novel is very enlightening.
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Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited Jun 06, 2020 02:45PM)
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France-Andree - yes, I want to read that one. You were asking whether anyone had read another. Another book I have about Phiz is Phiz! The Book Illustrations Of Hablot Knight Browne by John Buchanan-Brown. It includes selections from all the work of Phiz, not just his illustrations for Charles Dickens, is heavily illustrated and very interesting. I'd hesitate to recommend it though as the presentation is odd. I must review it some time ...
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Chapter VI : I see a little of David Copperfield’s innocence in how Charles Dickens gets entangled with the wrong editors who are making huge profit of Dickens early works... poor guy having to buy back his own work, copyrights might be frustrating now, but they were ridiculous then. I really liked the quoting of the unnamed Mr. who said: “The fact is, Mr. Dickens writes too often and too fast. . . . If he persists much longer in this course, it requires no gift of prophecy to foretell his fate:—he has risen like a rocket, and he will come down like the stick.” How wrong can you get?
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(last edited Jun 09, 2020 02:49PM)
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Petra - following on from the quotation where you were wondering who "Dora Wickfield" was based on (apart from his wife Kate), in our discussion of David Copperfield: I've found it at the close of chapter 3, and yes it definitely refers to Maria Beadnell. The dates fit, as he says he was 44 (he was born in 1812), and the first installment of Little Dorrit (which has "Flora Finching" in) was in December 1855.
I'm really enjoying all the parallels with David Copperfield, and the memories of his schoolfellows and those he worked with. Fancy still having a note from Charles Dickens as a child! I wonder whatever possessed the boy to keep it. I've enjoyed the parts about shorthand too, given our detailed discussion on the David Copperfield thread.
The part about how the reporters had to write in all circumstances, whether it was pelting down with rain, or if they were in a rickety carriage racing through the countryside and trying to get their copy there in time, surprised me. I'd never thought what it must be like, before recording devices and telephones. It was quite exhilarating to read!
I really liked this part:
"Whatever I have tried to do in life, I have tried with all my heart to do well. What I have devoted myself to, I have devoted myself to completely. Never to put one hand to anything on which I could throw my whole self, and never to affect depreciation of my work, whatever it was, I find now to have been my golden rules."
It fits Charles Dickens so well: sadly, he burned himself out :(
I'm just up to chapter 5.
Thanks, Jean! I'm just up to chapter 6 myself.
I'm a little further along in the book (Ch. 9), and I've been noticing that Forster doesn't mention Dickens' wife much. He's a wealth of information about his own friendly relationship with Dickens, the author's books, and business dealings. Maybe he was too close a friend with Dickens to write anything that would cause gossip, or he did not have permission to divulge.
Connie, I was a big surprised earlier (Chapter 4? or maybe 5?) when Dickens got married. His courtship was non-existent in this book and he was suddenly married. I put that down to the author stating that he met Dickens after that time, but still thought it was curious that the meeting and courtship wasn't at least mentioned. Oh well.
Petra wrote: "Connie, I was a big surprised earlier (Chapter 4? or maybe 5?) when Dickens got married. His courtship was non-existent in this book and he was suddenly married. I put that down to the author stat..."
I felt the same way. Maybe it's partly because there are so many parallels to David Copperfield, and we are reading about David's courtship. So I expected at least a little information about Catherine.
I think Forster chose not to mentioned Catherine because of how Dickens treated her, like she was a nonentity and hadn't meant much really. Dickens was a revisionist of his own relationship and to side with a more realistic view was to side against him and I think Forster makes it very clear on which side he landed. I guess for him it was protecting Dickens' image, the less said about that awful subject the better? The majority of what we know now comes from other biographers who are less biased.
France-Andrée wrote: "I think Forster chose not to mentioned Catherine because of how Dickens treated her, like she was a nonentity and hadn't meant much really. Dickens was a revisionist of his own relationship and to ..."Good thoughts! It's interesting how some people omit things when they write about people they knew well, and other people dish up the dirt. It says a lot about how much Forster treasured Dickens as a friend, even though the whole story is not being told.
Chapter 6:I loved this quote:
"....the incomparable ease of its (Pickwick Papers) many varieties of enjoyment, fascinated everybody. Judges on the bench and boys in the street, gravity and folly, the young and the old, those who were entering life and those who were quitting it, alike all found it to be irresistible."
What a rush Dickens must have been feeling, knowing that everyone he passed in the streets & countryside around him was enjoying his first novel to this extent.
Also this:
"Sam Weller and Mr. Pickwick are the Sancho and the Quixote of Londoners, and as little likely to pass away as th old city itself."
To go down in immortality for the joy that one brings to each new generation; and all spurred on by an imagination. How wonderful to have this sort of talent.
Dickens was probably too close to his work to see that it would delight readers for generations. I'm sure he would be happy about that.
Chapter 6:The death of Mary Hogarth was a source of deep grief for Dickens.
"His wife's next younger sister, Mary, who lived with them, and by sweetness of nature even more than by graces of person had made herself the ideal of his life, died with a terrible suddenness that for the time completely bore him down. His grief and suffering were intense, and affected him, as will be seen, through many after-years. The publication of Pickwick was interrupted for two months, the effort of writing it not being possible to him."
Mary Hogarth was the inspiration for many of Dickens' characters such as Rose Maylie in Oliver Twist, Little Nell in The Old Curiosity Shop, Kate Nickleby in Nicholas Nickleby, and Agnes Wickfield in David Copperfield, and others.
Connie, I was sad to be reminded about Mary and her death. It's been years since I read another Dickens biography and her importance had slipped my mind. This chapter brought that back. Poor Charles and Catherine.
Chapter 9 :How bizarre that someone when Nicholas Nickleby was a third written would put it on the stage, invent an ending, but even weirder that the author would go to see the show! Did it influence him at all? It is implied it didn’t, but I still wonder a little maybe it changed the future in some way.
It made me a little sad for Forster how he grieves for all his friends that were there for the (wrap?) party at the end of NN and are not alive when he was writing those line. We see glimpses of John Forster through his friendship with Dickens, but that was the most personal he’s gotten concerning his own life.
I also like the illustration by Charles Henry Jeens of the portrait by Daniel Maclise that accompanies this chapter.
France-Andrée wrote: "Chapter 9 :How bizarre that someone when Nicholas Nickleby was a third written would put it on the stage, invent an ending, but even weirder that the author would go to see the show! Did it influ..."
It blew my mind when I read it! We're so used to people getting sued for copyright infringement in our modern world. Evidently the copyright laws were very weak in Victorian times.
I haven't read Nicholas Nickleby, but it would be fun to compare Dickens' ending with the ending used in the theater.
Chapter 7:(this fits into France-Andree's comments about the NN play)
The copyright laws and agreements at this time are confusing to me. This is the second biography of Dickens that I'm reading and it confused me the first time, too.
I'm not asking for an explanation; just commenting. I'm sure an explanation would take volumes to explain. LOL.
It seems that Dickens was paid a set amount for each installment of his books, and by this process lost the copyright for his works. If I've got it right, his contract (after the first one for Pickwick) stated that he gets full copyright back after 5 years of completion of the work.
It seems to me that the magazine and/or publisher of the later full book would make the lion's share of any profit to be made on a book of the time. No one could possibly know that Dickens' books would still be selling almost 200 years after publication. The thought must have been that after 5 years in print, the profits have been skimmed off and the author can have his copyright back.
Anyway, Dickens' issues and troubles with the ownership of his own work is still confusiong to me, even with this read. But, that's okay....it is the way it was. LOL
Also, I like that Dickens was superstitious about where he started his novels and that (so far) that superstition has proven correct. .
Petra: I read recently a biography of Dickens’ daughter Kate and the copyrights at that time did not extend more than 20 years after the death of an author so everybody thought the Dickens were getting rich because 20 years after Charles death he was still very popular, but they were making nothing out of it.Here in Canada now, an author’s copyright extend 100 years after his or her death so family can actually protect the work of their relative... it’s not only about money, but how the work is presented, the plays that are written from it, the movies. I studied library science and we had hours on the subject... can get quite boring!
Interesting. So, the family lost the profits of his works 20 years after his death? That's sad. He spent so much energy and burned himself out producing these wonderful stories and his family didn't get a lot of monetary benefit from it. I hope they all did well. I was referring more to the copyrights and payments made to Dickens himself at the time of writing and for about 5 years after completion of each work. It seemed, if I got it right, that the profits were made by the magazine/publisher, not Dickens himself.
Kind of weird, considering how much money his works made, right from the moment of publishing.
Thanks for the information about the copyrights.
France-Andrée wrote: "Chapter 9 :How bizarre that someone when Nicholas Nickleby was a third written would put it on the stage, invent an ending, but even weirder that the author would go to see the show! Did it influ..."
France, Andree, I agree with you completely on this chapter.
It's very bizarre that someone would take the unfinished Nicholas Nickleby to the stage and write an ending for it....and that Dickens would go see the show with some enjoyment.
The remembrance of the people at the end was poignant and touching.
I have never read Barnaby Rudge. Yet it's history is already intriguing. It's been popping up in a number of chapters already and has yet to be truly started. I'm curious, now, as to why this novel gave Dickens such a hard time.
Copyright was a big issue for Dickens. Originally it was limited to the country of publication, so American presses could immediately print up his works without paying him or use his characters in plays. I think that was one reason for his first trip to the US, to try to change that.
I find it kind of interesting to hear that Dickens preferred to work in the morning hours only. While he did work at other times to meet deadlines, this seems to have been his preference, with riding & walking in the afternoon, and socializing & family in the evening. That makes the volume of works we have by him even more astounding than it is. I think it's sweet that he takes out a cottage for his parents when they (again) find themselves in financial troubles. Add that cost with that of his growing family and his issues with proper payment, he must have been feeling the stress of "having" to be productive at all times with his writings.
Robin, yes, copyrights and proper payment do seem to have plagued him throughout his career. It's sad. This worry had to have added to his worries and stress.
Dickens always spent a great deal of time walking. Sometimes authors use that type of time to mull over plot ideas in their minds so that they can use their writing time later productively.
I'm sure that's what he did. His mind seems to have been going at all times.
Dearest Jean,I am kind of late to the game here (just started to read John Forster's book), but am enjoying it so much. It is written in the spirit of true admiration and friendship - and lucky is the one who could inspire such beautiful, unreserved feelings! The language, the intonations of JF - it's all so poetic, so.... so good!
In Ch.1, John Forster refers several times to Dickens' fragile health as a child, and mentions some spontaneous spasms in his side. Can anyone venture a guess what it could be? Has this condition alleviated on its own later on? Could his fragile health as a child - I am only conjecturing here - lead to his father not willing to subject young Charles to rough school environment?
Helen: It was probably epilepsy and it is thought he had it all his life, a lot a his characters have seizures. It is also thought he had OCD. Here where I found the info https://hekint.org/2017/03/04/the-med....
Chapter XA lot of the summer games that they played on the lawn, we also played when I was a kid. It’s crazy that our world is so different and yet we still have the same games in common.
I think I found the visit to the prison a little disturbing, remind me how you could go see the mentally ill as a show too, Thomas Griffiths Wainewright was a murderer (and artist) and they had direct contact with him!
I think my favorite passages are when we have extracts of Charles Dickens. I don’t want to be hard on John Forster but he can be dry and Dickens makes things come alive.
Chapters XI-XIIWe see Dickens planning a literary series, "Master Humphrey's Clock" which was published in 1840-41. But people were more interested in buying the material if there was a continuous tale involved, as well as short stories or essays. The two novels presented in weekly serial form in "Master Humphrey's Clock" were The Old Curiosity Shop, and then his first historical novel, Barnaby Rudge.
The Old Curiosity Shop was very popular, and Dickens enjoyed writing it. After he completed the book, he wrote to John Forster, "After you left last night, I took my desk upstairs, and, writing until four o'clock this morning, finished the old story. It makes me very melancholy to think that all these people are lost to me forever, and I feel as if I never could become attached to any new set of characters."
Forster ends Chapter XII with a poem by the American writer, Bret Harte, called "Dickens in Camp." It's a posthumous tribute to Dickens where a man is reading The Old Curiosity Shop around a campfire to the other men, probably during the California gold rush:
"And then, while round them shadows gathered faster,
And as the fire-light fell,
He read aloud the book wherein the Master
Had writ of "Little Nell."
Chapter XI -XIII think Connie makes a very good summing up.
What I find fascinating is how an audience could influence a novel writer from week to week, a little like social media now. The readers wanted a continuous story so the author delivered. I also think Dickens got himself interested in a story he wanted to tell more than all he had planned.
The Old Curiosity Shop made me cry, I had no idea of the ending, that’s how Dickens completely takes us in even today like those man around the camp fire, rough and tough and still tender, I liked the poem too (just Bret Hart is the name of a famous wrestler and I had to laugh at that... totally of topic, but funny).
I always feel guilty reading a book quickly even if it’s because I can’t put it down, you think of all the research and work invested in the pages you are reading and all the time it took to write. It’s interesting to see how Dickens has difficulty letting go of his characters too, but he could do his mourning pretty much at the same time as his readers because of the immediacy of the publication.
FYI: John Forster tells us the ending to the novel, The Old Curiosity Shop, in the middle of Chapter XII. Anyone who has not read the book might want to avoid reading that section.
France-Andree, that's an interesting point about how the audience influenced Dickens. It reminds me of how writers of soap operas might decide to kill off a character, or take a story line in a different direction today.
That’s a perfect analogy, Connie, I hadn’t thought about it.I did mention in another thread about this book and spoilers. JF has given endings or major plot points on all the books he has talked about. It does put in context Dickens thoughts at the time though, it’s why I waited a long time before reading a biography on this author.
I'm planning on finishing this volume, and thought the beginning of it fit in well with our reading of David Copperfield. But I would like to read a few more of his novels before I read anything else biographical so I won't have the endings spoiled.
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Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited Jun 15, 2020 05:41AM)
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Thank you very much Connie - I'm not up to that bit yet, or I would have said.
I deliberately chose volume 1, ie., just a third of the work, hoping that there would not be spoilers about later novels. Every single biography I have ever read on Charles Dickens includes plot spoilers :(
By the time I get around to reading the novels, I'll probably have forgotten most of the spoilers ;-)
Thanks, Connie. Now that I know the spoiler is there, I'll try to avoid it. I'm coming up to Chapter 12 quickly. With Classics, I'm not as concerned about spoilers as with more modern books since I've usually heard at least a little about plotlines through other means already and that can include spoilers at times. However, if I can avoid a big spoiler, I try to.On the whole, so far, I am finding this an interesting read but find JF's writing to be a bit dry and many worded. At this point of time, I'm glad we've only committed to Vol. 1, although stopping in the middle of a life may seem like an abrupt end. It'll be interesting to see how he ends this volume.
Petra, if you want to avoid the spoiler, do not read the chapter headings either, it’s in there.
Without giving away the ending, it is known that people came to the docks in America to ask the arriving English ships about what happened in the story of The Old Curiosity Shop (since it was already published in England.) It was just like the excitement over the last Harry Potter book or a Star Wars sequel. Dickens is unusual in being both a critical and a popular success during his lifetime.
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Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited Jun 15, 2020 02:29PM)
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The chapter headings in this book remind me of some of Charles Dickens's later novels, in that they serve as a résumé of the major points in the chapter which follows. I don't really care for this style, as it is too telling, but I think it was popular with the 18th century novelists Charles Dickens so loved.
I don’t read chapter headings of 19th Century books in general maybe just the first or second chapter to see if they will be spoilerish or not, but a long one like John Forster is more a preview than a title.
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Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited Jun 16, 2020 07:12AM)
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John Forster is writing strictly chronologically however, so if you have read just one or two of Charles Dickens's novels, you will know where the chapters are to avoid. (Just look at the date of publication). You won't miss any "exciting action"!
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It puts Charles Dickens's later obsession with copyright and royalty issues into context. It wasn't just that he had to be careful with his money when older (with so many drains on his financial resources) but the memory of this silly mistake, and how many years it plagued him.
Barnaby Rudge is one of his least successful novels, and perhaps this bad start had an influence. It has wonderful passages - and in a way is his most horrific - but there are a couple of historical inaccuracies (which again he paid for later). It's interesting to learn what paltry terms he had to write it on. It must have affected his motivation, when he had so much else going on.
Jean, you mentioned Forster giving advice to Dickens. Forster gave him legal advice, and also seemed to be a "first reader" of his publications. Did Dickens have anyone else to act as an editor for him?
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Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited Jun 16, 2020 08:10AM)
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Charles Dickens himself acted as editor for many new writers, through his own newspapers. He liked to hold the reins, and our reading of his early experience here give us an insight into why that might be! He edited works by Elizabeth Gaskell, Wilkie Collins and Anthony Trollope among others, although many went their own way later, not wanting to be part of his uncredited "staff of writers". I guess when you own the newspaper, you own the blue pencil too!
I find all the background information on Barnaby Rudge really interesting, but when I read a book my rating goes with how much I enjoyed it and, ummm, Barnaby Rudge is not my least favorite (I think that's Hard Times) by it's not far off.
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Books mentioned in this topic
The Old Curiosity Shop (other topics)Barnaby Rudge (other topics)
The Life of Charles Dickens, Vol. 1 (other topics)
Nicholas Nickelby (other topics)
American Notes for General Circulation (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
John Forster (other topics)John Forster (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
John Forster (other topics)
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