Dickensians! discussion
      David Copperfield - Group Read 1
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    May - June 2020: David Copperfield: chapters 30 - 44
    
  
  
      Bionic Jean wrote: "True Robin, I'll accept the fiction that Oliver is somehow different because of his upper-class genes (sigh!) and takes to gentlemanly ways naturally, but it's a bit of a stretch to think that Oliv..."I totally agree, it's ridiculous, but I guess at that point Dickens thought it was necessary to make him likable. This was an early book by Dickens. Much later, in Bleak House, he has the street sweeper Jo, who is totally neglected and uneducated and acts like it, yet Dickens makes a point of encouraging readers to have sympathy for him.
      Here is one version of the lyrics:Oranges and lemons,
Say the bells of St. Clement's.
You owe me three farthings,
Say the bells of St. Martin's.
When will you pay me?
Say the bells at Old Bailey.
When I grow rich,
Say the bells at Shoreditch.
When will that be?
Say the bells of Stepney.
I do not know,
Says the great bell at Bow.
Here comes a candle to light you to bed,
And here comes a chopper to chop off your head!
Chip chop chip chop the last man is dead
    
      Sara: It does sound like London Bridges!Yes, it is a children’s book. I think it is titled, “Baby’s Opera” but it’s downstairs and I am still wearing an air cast, lol! I collect children’s books as well and as favorite authors.
      Lori wrote: "Debra: Thank you for the poem and the picture!"You are welcome. The picture does look like London Bridges. Although, there was not anything in article about London Bridges.
      I was also impressed by how Peggotty was able to make his way about in search of Emily and find comfort and companionship in spite of not being able to verbally communicate in the foreign countries he travelled.. Word of mouth about his quest traveled before him and he "just missed" catching up with Emily on several occasions.
    
      There was a children's songbook from 1744, 
  
 Tommy Thumb's song book, for all little masters and misses, to be sung to them by their nurses, until they can sing themselves. By Nurse Lovechild. The first Worcester edition. that contained the song that Debra quoted, "Oranges and Bells," as well as one of the many versions of the "London Bridge" song. Link: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Tommy_...
The version I am familiar with:
https://allnurseryrhymes.com/london-b...
One of the rebuildings of London Bridge occurred in 1831 during Dickens's lifetime
. This bridge also underwent renovations until the 1960's when it was decided that the bridge was in need of repair as well as sinking, so it was sold through auction to American, Robert P. McCulloch, for $2,460,000 in 1968.. It was dismantled as the new and present-day London Bridge was being built (completed in 1973). McCulloch ultimately moved the bridge to Lake Havasu City, Arizona as a planned tourist attraction and opened in 1971.
London Bridge in Lake Havasu City, AZ
The 1831 bridge now reconstructed in Arizona would be, I believe, the one that Dickens would have mentioned in his books. Now I can say that I have visited the London Bridge that Dickens referred to in his novels! :-)
      Elizabeth: Thank you for the information on London Bridge and the photos! I had no idea the bridge ended up in Arizona.
    
      Thanks for the information, Elizabeth. Years ago (before google) I heard the London Bridge was in Arizona, but thought it was a tall tale. Then forgot all about it.
    
        
      What fabulous posts! 
Robin yes, I agree: and that's a good comparison. We discussed earlier how Jo was based on a real street sweeper he had helped :)
Oliver Twist is in my opinion a very immature novel. It's a great story, but I'd never recommend it as a first read, or as one of his major novels, as it does have faults. In fact, although technically The Pickwick Papers is now classed as his first novel, because that one is so episodic I think of Oliver Twist as being his first novel, really. Charles Dickens's writing became much more nuanced and skilful.
  
  
  Robin yes, I agree: and that's a good comparison. We discussed earlier how Jo was based on a real street sweeper he had helped :)
Oliver Twist is in my opinion a very immature novel. It's a great story, but I'd never recommend it as a first read, or as one of his major novels, as it does have faults. In fact, although technically The Pickwick Papers is now classed as his first novel, because that one is so episodic I think of Oliver Twist as being his first novel, really. Charles Dickens's writing became much more nuanced and skilful.
        
      Lori - Yes, quite a few of our historical structures have ended op in the States, bought by wealthy Americans, and reconstructed brick by brick.
Elizabeth - I loved your post with the links and info, - and France-Andrée's French version, thank you!
  
  
  Elizabeth - I loved your post with the links and info, - and France-Andrée's French version, thank you!
        
       Sara and Lori - The 2 nursery rhymes are interchangeable for that playground/ party game. I used to have quite a scholarly a book with hundreds of them and their derivations ... I forget the name but it's by Iona Opie and Peter Opie and a similar one by them is The Lore and Language of Schoolchildren; they are experts in that area.
And I do have the The Baby's Opera by Walter Crane :) I'll link to my review, as it has pictures from the book: LINK HERE.
  
  
  And I do have the The Baby's Opera by Walter Crane :) I'll link to my review, as it has pictures from the book: LINK HERE.
        
      Debra - Thank you so much for posting the whole rhyme of "Oranges and lemons". That's the version I know too, though at the age I Iearned it I had never seen the bridges. I only came to do that as an adult. 
And the final line for us, after:
"And here comes a chopper to chop off your head!"
goes "Chop, chop chop, chop, CHOP!"
As the pairs of children walk through the arch made by the arms of two other children, they chant the final line, and the arms come down on the fifth "CHOP!" on the shoulders of the unfortunate pair who have not managed to scramble through, so they are then "out" and the chain is shorter.
  
  
  And the final line for us, after:
"And here comes a chopper to chop off your head!"
goes "Chop, chop chop, chop, CHOP!"
As the pairs of children walk through the arch made by the arms of two other children, they chant the final line, and the arms come down on the fifth "CHOP!" on the shoulders of the unfortunate pair who have not managed to scramble through, so they are then "out" and the chain is shorter.
        
      Chapter 41:
Dora's aunts write to David, in formal tones to suggest that he comes to visit them in person, accompanied by a friend if he chooses. David decides to ask Traddles. He misses the advice of Miss Mills, who has gone to India with father, to live, because of Mr Mills's work.
The day arrives, and David spends a lot of time considering how to dress, as he wishes to appear both practical and stylish. He is apprehensive as to how the Miss Spenlows will react to Traddles's unruly hair, and as they are walking to Putney, this leads to a conversation about Traddles's prospects of ever marrying his Sophy, who she seems indispensable to her family. All this banter is, as the older David narrating remarks, "serio-comic".
David and Traddles have a drink of ale at an Inn, to give David courage, and at last they arrive at the house. They are admitted by a maid, and go into "a quiet little drawing-room on the ground-floor, commanding a neat garden". Dora is nowhere to be seen, but he does hear a muffled bark from Jip. The two sisters are there, waiting. They were evidently older than Mr Spenlow, with perhaps six or eight years between them. "They were both upright in their carriage, formal, precise, composed, and quiet. The sister who had not my letter, had her arms crossed on her breast, and resting on each other, like an Idol." The younger one seems a little more lively, and both seemed to accept that she would take charge.

Traddles and I in conference with the Misses Spenlow - Phiz
Matters are not helped by them mistaking Traddles for David, but this is soon corrected. The sisters are are called Clarissa and Lavina, and they have decided that Lavinia is better qualified to make decisions of the heart, as for a long time she had, they believed, an admirer (although this Mr Pidger never actually expressed such a feeling, and has now died).
They refer more than once to the fact that they had not been invited to dinner when Dora was born, as the reason for their arrangement not to see Mr Spenlow and his wife and child. There is much discussion in which David and Traddles attempt to make themselves as personable and acquiescent as possible, and Traddles recommends his friend with great enthusiasm. Lavinia, representing both sisters, suggests that it might be a good idea if David makes regular visits to them on Sundays, and twice a week, at times they choose. David is very happy with this arrangement, but the sisters leave him with Traddles to discuss the matter for a quarter of an hour.
After this, David is allowed to go into the room where Dora is waiting, very much frightened as to the events. She is hiding behind the door, and has put Jip in a plate-warmer with his head tied up in a towel, to prevent him barking. Dora says she is frightened of Traddles, and the mention of Aunt Betsey too:
"I know she’s a naughty, mischief-making old thing! Don’t let her come here, Doady!’ which was a corruption of David.
Remonstrance was of no use, then; so I laughed, and admired, and was very much in love and very happy;"
When the sisters come in, it is obvious that they care for Dora very much, and treat her as if she is a doll.
On the walk home, David and Traddles talk of Dora and Sophy, each content to think they have chosen the better sweetheart. David recounts everything that has happened to his Aunt, who is happy because he is happy, although he is aware of her pacing for a long time that night. He also writes to Agnes, who replies by return:
"Her letter was hopeful, earnest, and cheerful. She was always cheerful from that time."
It is such a long walk from Highgate (North London) to Putney (South West London) that David finds the weekday times impossible so they arrange for him to visit both days at the weekend, which he is relieved about. Betsey Trotwood has also visited them, which David is apprehensive about, as they are so different, but all goes well, as:
"she loved me too well not to sacrifice some of her little peculiarities to the general harmony."
Jip is as out of sorts as ever when his aunt is there. David begins to be concerned that everyone indulges Dora, much as she does Jip:
"Dora seemed by one consent to be regarded like a pretty toy or plaything. My aunt ... always called her Little Blossom; and the pleasure of Miss Lavinia’s life was to wait upon her, curl her hair, make ornaments for her, and treat her like a pet child."
He decides that it is up to him to make Dora a little less like a child. The various attempt he has all fail. Either she gets upset, or David doesn't have the heart to pursue teaching her about account books and cookery books:
"And we fell back on the guitar-case, and the flower-painting, and the songs about never leaving off dancing, Ta ra la! and were as happy as the week was long .... sometimes ... wondering to find that I had fallen into the general fault, and treated her like a plaything too—but not often."
  
  
  Dora's aunts write to David, in formal tones to suggest that he comes to visit them in person, accompanied by a friend if he chooses. David decides to ask Traddles. He misses the advice of Miss Mills, who has gone to India with father, to live, because of Mr Mills's work.
The day arrives, and David spends a lot of time considering how to dress, as he wishes to appear both practical and stylish. He is apprehensive as to how the Miss Spenlows will react to Traddles's unruly hair, and as they are walking to Putney, this leads to a conversation about Traddles's prospects of ever marrying his Sophy, who she seems indispensable to her family. All this banter is, as the older David narrating remarks, "serio-comic".
David and Traddles have a drink of ale at an Inn, to give David courage, and at last they arrive at the house. They are admitted by a maid, and go into "a quiet little drawing-room on the ground-floor, commanding a neat garden". Dora is nowhere to be seen, but he does hear a muffled bark from Jip. The two sisters are there, waiting. They were evidently older than Mr Spenlow, with perhaps six or eight years between them. "They were both upright in their carriage, formal, precise, composed, and quiet. The sister who had not my letter, had her arms crossed on her breast, and resting on each other, like an Idol." The younger one seems a little more lively, and both seemed to accept that she would take charge.

Traddles and I in conference with the Misses Spenlow - Phiz
Matters are not helped by them mistaking Traddles for David, but this is soon corrected. The sisters are are called Clarissa and Lavina, and they have decided that Lavinia is better qualified to make decisions of the heart, as for a long time she had, they believed, an admirer (although this Mr Pidger never actually expressed such a feeling, and has now died).
They refer more than once to the fact that they had not been invited to dinner when Dora was born, as the reason for their arrangement not to see Mr Spenlow and his wife and child. There is much discussion in which David and Traddles attempt to make themselves as personable and acquiescent as possible, and Traddles recommends his friend with great enthusiasm. Lavinia, representing both sisters, suggests that it might be a good idea if David makes regular visits to them on Sundays, and twice a week, at times they choose. David is very happy with this arrangement, but the sisters leave him with Traddles to discuss the matter for a quarter of an hour.
After this, David is allowed to go into the room where Dora is waiting, very much frightened as to the events. She is hiding behind the door, and has put Jip in a plate-warmer with his head tied up in a towel, to prevent him barking. Dora says she is frightened of Traddles, and the mention of Aunt Betsey too:
"I know she’s a naughty, mischief-making old thing! Don’t let her come here, Doady!’ which was a corruption of David.
Remonstrance was of no use, then; so I laughed, and admired, and was very much in love and very happy;"
When the sisters come in, it is obvious that they care for Dora very much, and treat her as if she is a doll.
On the walk home, David and Traddles talk of Dora and Sophy, each content to think they have chosen the better sweetheart. David recounts everything that has happened to his Aunt, who is happy because he is happy, although he is aware of her pacing for a long time that night. He also writes to Agnes, who replies by return:
"Her letter was hopeful, earnest, and cheerful. She was always cheerful from that time."
It is such a long walk from Highgate (North London) to Putney (South West London) that David finds the weekday times impossible so they arrange for him to visit both days at the weekend, which he is relieved about. Betsey Trotwood has also visited them, which David is apprehensive about, as they are so different, but all goes well, as:
"she loved me too well not to sacrifice some of her little peculiarities to the general harmony."
Jip is as out of sorts as ever when his aunt is there. David begins to be concerned that everyone indulges Dora, much as she does Jip:
"Dora seemed by one consent to be regarded like a pretty toy or plaything. My aunt ... always called her Little Blossom; and the pleasure of Miss Lavinia’s life was to wait upon her, curl her hair, make ornaments for her, and treat her like a pet child."
He decides that it is up to him to make Dora a little less like a child. The various attempt he has all fail. Either she gets upset, or David doesn't have the heart to pursue teaching her about account books and cookery books:
"And we fell back on the guitar-case, and the flower-painting, and the songs about never leaving off dancing, Ta ra la! and were as happy as the week was long .... sometimes ... wondering to find that I had fallen into the general fault, and treated her like a plaything too—but not often."
        
      This chapter seems to me to be written to amuse us, and din it into us (if we hadn't already realised) how child-like and incapable Dora is: that she is merely affectionate, and decorative - and that David is besotted with her.
I did worry about poor Jip, so I thought worth looking at a few Victorian plate-warmers. Mostly they seemed to be cupboards with several shelves, or else large silver serving dishes, with deep domed tops on. At any rate, I expect a very small dog would be OK temporarily there ...
"A preparation in chip or tan of the late Mr. Spenlow" intrigued me, so I looked it up.
"Preparation" can be a term used in taxidermy, in which case the skin would have been tanned (preserved). Thus it could mean that they looked as their brother would have, if his body had been stuffed by a taxidermist.
This does seem a little ghoulish though, so perhaps it is simply that they are "dry" and they look rather like Mr Spenlow. "Chip" is straw, and "tan" indicates leather, so their skin is dried up like straw or leather.
  
  
  I did worry about poor Jip, so I thought worth looking at a few Victorian plate-warmers. Mostly they seemed to be cupboards with several shelves, or else large silver serving dishes, with deep domed tops on. At any rate, I expect a very small dog would be OK temporarily there ...
"A preparation in chip or tan of the late Mr. Spenlow" intrigued me, so I looked it up.
"Preparation" can be a term used in taxidermy, in which case the skin would have been tanned (preserved). Thus it could mean that they looked as their brother would have, if his body had been stuffed by a taxidermist.
This does seem a little ghoulish though, so perhaps it is simply that they are "dry" and they look rather like Mr Spenlow. "Chip" is straw, and "tan" indicates leather, so their skin is dried up like straw or leather.
        
      A little more ...
The illustration by Hablot K. Browne ("Phiz") has lots of extra significance. The pictures on the walls are apparently called "The Momentous Question", "The Last Appeal", and "Arcadia", (though I can't make this out) which do seem to be a commentary on David's position with Dora. The titles we can see on the books are "Paradise Regained", "The Loves of Angels" and "Music", and there is a figurine of a girl picking the petals off a flower. It all seems like a pastoral idyll.
The background details and objects seem ironic, and are perhaps designed to reflect the comedic feel of this chapter. Also pictured are a pair of canaries in a cage on the left, and two goldfish in a bowl in the centre. (This a bit hard to make out - sorry I can't find a better reproduction as some of them seem worse and blank out the goldfish altogether!)
These are powerful symbols. The caged birds could represent the immature "love birds," David and Dora, or alternatively the two sisters. Charles Dickens compares the Spenlow sisters to birds: "having a sharp, brisk, sudden manner, and a little short, spruce way of adjusting themselves, like canaries". So it does seem likely that these caged birds, immediately behind Clarissa Spenlow (the elder sister) do represent their self-imposed exile from their brother, living in seclusion in Putney.
This would mean that the pair of goldfish in the bowl between Traddles and Lavinia Spenlow (the younger sister), represent David and Dora. It could be that Phiz is telling us this pair are heading for a trap: they are fulfilling their love in a small, enclosed containers from which there is no escape. Or it could be a comment solely on Dora, who has been raised in an enclosed, insulated environment. Then the implication would be that if she marries David, and discovers the real world outside her protected environment, she will be "like a fish out of water".
There's a lot in this illustration. Since it depicts a typical maiden aunts' parlour of that era, Phiz could easily make use of the furnishings, possessions, paintings, and bric a brac to proved these emblems. They might be a commentary of the text, or a warning of what is to come. But since they were etched at the same time that the installments were first published, we don't need to worry that there are any spoilers here! All Phiz had access to, was this chapter, plus numbers 42 and 43, (which are in the same installment).
  
  
  The illustration by Hablot K. Browne ("Phiz") has lots of extra significance. The pictures on the walls are apparently called "The Momentous Question", "The Last Appeal", and "Arcadia", (though I can't make this out) which do seem to be a commentary on David's position with Dora. The titles we can see on the books are "Paradise Regained", "The Loves of Angels" and "Music", and there is a figurine of a girl picking the petals off a flower. It all seems like a pastoral idyll.
The background details and objects seem ironic, and are perhaps designed to reflect the comedic feel of this chapter. Also pictured are a pair of canaries in a cage on the left, and two goldfish in a bowl in the centre. (This a bit hard to make out - sorry I can't find a better reproduction as some of them seem worse and blank out the goldfish altogether!)
These are powerful symbols. The caged birds could represent the immature "love birds," David and Dora, or alternatively the two sisters. Charles Dickens compares the Spenlow sisters to birds: "having a sharp, brisk, sudden manner, and a little short, spruce way of adjusting themselves, like canaries". So it does seem likely that these caged birds, immediately behind Clarissa Spenlow (the elder sister) do represent their self-imposed exile from their brother, living in seclusion in Putney.
This would mean that the pair of goldfish in the bowl between Traddles and Lavinia Spenlow (the younger sister), represent David and Dora. It could be that Phiz is telling us this pair are heading for a trap: they are fulfilling their love in a small, enclosed containers from which there is no escape. Or it could be a comment solely on Dora, who has been raised in an enclosed, insulated environment. Then the implication would be that if she marries David, and discovers the real world outside her protected environment, she will be "like a fish out of water".
There's a lot in this illustration. Since it depicts a typical maiden aunts' parlour of that era, Phiz could easily make use of the furnishings, possessions, paintings, and bric a brac to proved these emblems. They might be a commentary of the text, or a warning of what is to come. But since they were etched at the same time that the installments were first published, we don't need to worry that there are any spoilers here! All Phiz had access to, was this chapter, plus numbers 42 and 43, (which are in the same installment).
      Debra, I agree with you. I was uncomfortable reading about the way Dora was treated, almost like a toy doll. She has been sheltered and pampered to the point that she will be incapable of functioning as an adult.David is so smitten but even he realizes that Dora will be incapable of looking after a household, let alone going to buy meat from a butcher for their meals.
      The illustration is fascinating, Jean. I found a good copy and enlarged it and had a close up look at all the small items that signify so much. One of the pictures on the wall has the gentleman turned away, crying. That seems appropriate to me, since this is doomed to be an unsatisfactory relationship for David--no matter how it goes. I do wish he could see how completely vapid Dora is. She has no interests, no intelligence, and no apparent concern for anyone except herself. She is very like a doll, which might be lovely to play with, but isn't going to be much help if you need a partner.
The aunts were a perfect bit of humor. I love that the one bows to the other in matters of romance because the latter had a misalliance at some stage.
        
      Dora is completely pampered, isn't she? I know she's not very bright, but you'd have thought the finishing school would at least have taught her dignity, and not to pout and cry at the least little thing. She actually seems far more a product of over-protective parents.
Sara - Can you make out what is behind, or perhaps immediately above, the goldfish bowl? It puzzles me.
  
  
  Sara - Can you make out what is behind, or perhaps immediately above, the goldfish bowl? It puzzles me.
      I hope the immaturity of his infatuation with this child (mentally, I think she must be about six years old) will soon become apparent to David. He's getting wake-up call after wake-up call, but at the moment, he's ignoring them. Hopefully, the amount of evidence that she is not fit to be the wife of a poor man (or really, anyone!) will soon become too obvious to deny. Poor David is so blind! Being around Agnes brings him feelings of rest and refreshment in his very soul, while interactions with Dora are only anxiety-producing, as he tries to force her to fit into the mold he needs her to fill. I wonder which girl would be better for him? ;)When Martha showed up at the door, I wondered if it was possible that Emily and Steerforth had already parted ways. I thought she might have gone to Martha for help, too ashamed to go home, even knowing that she would be welcomed. I supposed that couldn't be the case since Peggotty got a letter with a foreign postmark, but that was my first thought!
I guess any lingering doubts we had about Uriah's villainy have been laid firmly to rest. He is a loathsome creature! I agree with the other posters expressing revulsion. The debates on the way that humans can be put under the same pressures and have so many different and wildly varying reactions are fascinating. Uriah, despite his upbringing, still made choices, and those choices were to the detriment of others. Like many criminals (and I know he's not a criminal, really), he doesn't concern himself with how his actions affect his victims. Uriah's reaction to Mr. Wickfield's meltdown over Agnes reminds me of so many stories and movies I've seen where the antagonist has been mercilessly tormenting the victim. When the victim is able to turn the tables on the antagonist, he is completely outraged. "How dare you attack me!" seems to be his response, seemingly blind to what he has himself been doing all this time. While I agree that Uriah's physical appearance and his snakelike writhing would obviously be impediments to his social climb, that doesn't excuse his cold-blooded (ha! snake pun) consumption of the Wickfields in furtherance of his ambition.
      Bionic Jean wrote: "Dora says she is frightened of Traddles, and the mention of Aunt Betsey too:"I know she’s a naughty, mischief-making old thing! Don’t let her come here, Doady!’"
Dora is more stupid than ever, in this chapter. She’s even afraid of Traddles and aunt Betsey. I didn’t remember she was so afraid of people during her birthday pic-nic in the country. Now I can understand that she is afraid of aunt Betsey: undoubtedly Miss Murdstone, who didn’t have a good experience with Mrs Trotwood, must have not spoken in flattering terms of her with Dora. But Traddles… What if David brought Uriah Heep, then! The poor girl would suffer from a heart attack. Anyway, undoubtedly, Dora’s stupidity elicits some reactions from David which are really funny.
Notwithstanding all her childish behaviour, though, she says one clever thing when David tells her that he wished she could get people to behave towards her differently, because she was not a child:
[Dora] began to sob, saying if I didn’t like her, why had I ever wanted so much to be engaged to her? And why didn’t I go away, now, if I couldn’t bear her?
Answer: because David is thinking with the wrong organ?
      Elizabeth A.G. wrote: "The 1831 bridge now reconstructed in Arizona would be, I believe, the one that Dickens would have mentioned in his books. Now I can say that I have visited the London Bridge that Dickens referred to in his novels! :-)"This is Amazing. Thank you Elizabeth
      I dislike Dora. I also feel sorry for her. Being afraid of Aunt Betsey & Traddles because she doesn't think they will like her! That's insecurity at it's highest. The girl thinks so poorly of herself. I suppose that gives a tiny smidgeon of hope that she'll mature one day. But she's seems such a hopeless case; it doesn't seem possible that she may mature at all.
My main thoughts about her, though, are dislike. I would like to see David wake up and walk out the door.
      About the sale of London Bridge: Somewhere in the past, I remember reading that the Purchasers were disappointed when the bridge arrived. They thought they were purchasing the Tower Bridge, mistakenly thinking that it was named London Bridge.
I don't know if this is true; I just remember reading it.
      Bionic Jean wrote: "Sara - Can you make out what is behind, or perhaps immediately above, the goldfish bowl? It puzzles me."Here's a link to the largest image I could find of that illustration: https://c8.alamy.com/comp/BTM6KF/davi...
I think it's just the top of a vase of flowers. I love the faces of each of the characters in this illustration - so expressive!
      Petra wrote: "About the sale of London Bridge: Somewhere in the past, I remember reading that the Purchasers were disappointed when the bridge arrived. They thought they were purchasing the Tower Bridge, mistak..."
According to this article, that was just a rumor, though an understandable one! https://web.archive.org/web/201201160...
      Tadiana ✩Night Owl☽ wrote: "Here's a link to the largest image I could find of that illustration."Thank you Tadiana. After reading Jean’s post, I tried to watch the image more carefully. Now I can see the irony. It’s lovely.
      Tadiana ✩Night Owl☽ wrote: "According to this article, that was just a rumor, though an understandable one! ..."Thanks for the clarification, Tadiana. I can see this story as a rumour.
      I love Phiz's illustration. It's just how I pictured the scene with the aunts with their straight backs, Traddles with his hair sticking up, and David looking anxious. Thanks for telling us more about the paintings, fishbowl, and birdcage, Jean.What a contrast between Traddles' Sophy who is so competent that her family doesn't know how they can live without her, and Dora! I hope that David can eventually afford to have a servant in their house because Dora likes to be treated like a child, and can't cope with any responsibility or adversity.
      Bionic Jean wrote: "Dora is completely pampered, isn't she? I know she's not very bright, but you'd have thought the finishing school would at least have taught her dignity, and not to pout and cry at the least little..."It is a vase with a narrow neck, with a flower in it.
        
      I do wonder how a Victorian audience responded to Dora. Perhaps she fulfilled their sentimental ideal of a helpless heroine Even the silent movie film stars later seemed to conform to that. Thank goodness Charles Dickens gives us lots of strong women to counteract her.
Thanks Tadiana, I did see that one, and can replace it with that one if it's better. Another which was clearer of the fish lost the detail of the etchings ... Is it flowers? Or another figurine? (Cupid standing on one leg?) As another female in this book might say, "I really want to know" ;)
Cindy - I like your ideas :) Connie and Milena's too. And the demeanour of all of them is just perfect in this illustration :)
Petra - I have a feeling that started as a rather unkind xenophobic joke put about in England, which took hold as a rumour! Because it sounds a little familiar to me too ... and we do think Tower Bridge is much more attractive, and more of an international landmark. Thanks for the link Tadiana.
I would be perfectly happy if Dora never appeared in the novel again. What a shame it was Miss Julia Mills who was whisked off to India, and not Dora! Did anyone else find that "convenient"? Perhaps she was not popular with Charles Dickens's original readers, and so he had to get rid of her.
But I wondered if she had a secret passion for David herself. What a perfect ruse then, to seem to be their closest confidante, until David came to his senses and his eyes were opened to her beauty, earnestness, loyalty and passion ... (sorry, I'm starting to write my own novel here!)
  
  
  Thanks Tadiana, I did see that one, and can replace it with that one if it's better. Another which was clearer of the fish lost the detail of the etchings ... Is it flowers? Or another figurine? (Cupid standing on one leg?) As another female in this book might say, "I really want to know" ;)
Cindy - I like your ideas :) Connie and Milena's too. And the demeanour of all of them is just perfect in this illustration :)
Petra - I have a feeling that started as a rather unkind xenophobic joke put about in England, which took hold as a rumour! Because it sounds a little familiar to me too ... and we do think Tower Bridge is much more attractive, and more of an international landmark. Thanks for the link Tadiana.
I would be perfectly happy if Dora never appeared in the novel again. What a shame it was Miss Julia Mills who was whisked off to India, and not Dora! Did anyone else find that "convenient"? Perhaps she was not popular with Charles Dickens's original readers, and so he had to get rid of her.
But I wondered if she had a secret passion for David herself. What a perfect ruse then, to seem to be their closest confidante, until David came to his senses and his eyes were opened to her beauty, earnestness, loyalty and passion ... (sorry, I'm starting to write my own novel here!)
      The image I found will let you blow up sections. That detail is definitely a flower in a vase. Whenever Dora starts up I think of Dudley Do Right's Nell.
    
        
      Sara wrote: "The image I found will let you blow up sections. That detail is definitely a flower in a vase. "
Thanks Sara. I just had one of those strange feelings - how amazed Charles Dickens would be that we can read his works via a machine, and that someone in America can not only talk to, but help someone in England to see the details of an illustration by his friend!
  
  
  Thanks Sara. I just had one of those strange feelings - how amazed Charles Dickens would be that we can read his works via a machine, and that someone in America can not only talk to, but help someone in England to see the details of an illustration by his friend!
      Things like that dawn on me now and then, Jean. My grandfather lived to be 100 years old and saw the world go from horse and buggies to a man on the moon--but what on earth would he make of the internet and you and I talking over an ocean instantaneously?
    
      Milena wrote: "Answer: because David is thinking with the wrong organ? ..."LOL, Milena! Can you imagine their wedding night? I wonder how long it would take her childish appeal to wear thin as David has to cope with a bride who pouts and weeps, hiding behind the door and probably screaming every time he touches her? It would probably stop being so attractive at that point!
      Thank you, Elizabeth, for the London Bridge story and all the others for the specifications. I read a book a long time ago where the protagonist bought a castle in Scotland and had it relocated in America (with a very confused ghost in tow) and I had thought that was pretty outrageous, but I realize now it was probably inspired by reality!I found a great page with all the Phiz illustrations for David Copperfield, but I don't recommend it for a first time user because they are all next to each other and that gives MAJOR SPOILERS, but here it is : https://www.charlesdickenspage.com/il..., I thought the current picture once clicked on was very easy to decipher and it's a vase of flower, I concur (lol). Thank you, Jean, for lovely analysis of the picture, very informative, I'm not very good at interpretation like that.
Now, the chapter. It is very hard to see Dora as her first time reader when you are not so a lot of my thinking about her is tainted by what is coming. It is too bad that she went from a father who pampered her to aunts that cater to her every whim... probably wouldn't have gotten a chance to change anyway, but it really doesn't help that her aunts encourage her not to be a little more mature. David tries his best, but he quickly decides not to fight it.
I feel that the only reason Traddles got to be engaged to Sophy is that her family believes it will never happen. They can manipulate both Traddles and Sophy the way they want... I wonder it they wont ask Sophy to stay on after her marriage (if it does happen) and invite Traddles to join her there? I have forgotten where this couple is going and that is where I speculate instead of what I do remember, it what makes a reread fun, all the details that are not in the memory.
        
      France-Andrée - The page of Phiz's illustrations you linked to is what I used last time I read this novel! But yes they are spoilerish, so please don't look at the linked page unless you know this story! The titles really will catch your eye straightaway.
I had saved those all individually on my computer, but this time I'm replacing them, and using mostly the Victorian Web, because I was finding some areas in the others blacked out, so you can't see the details. But then the Victorian Web reproductions are lighter in tone, which means that some details are missed because they have been "overexposed" or bleached out. You can't win!
For some reason, Fred Barnard's aren't so variable.
  
  
  I had saved those all individually on my computer, but this time I'm replacing them, and using mostly the Victorian Web, because I was finding some areas in the others blacked out, so you can't see the details. But then the Victorian Web reproductions are lighter in tone, which means that some details are missed because they have been "overexposed" or bleached out. You can't win!
For some reason, Fred Barnard's aren't so variable.
      Well, I appreciate the illustrations enormously and also your commentary on them, Jean. I will not click the link, because I am experiencing this as though I had never read it. There is absolutely no detail of the plot that I remember, and some of the characters are even surprising for me. JOY!I am laughing thinking of the wedding night as envisioned by Cindy. I'm doubting the "experienced" aunt can give poor Dora any idea of what is coming.
      Jean: Thank you so much for the link to Baby’s Opera!!Great observations and comments, everyone! I especially love the illustration and its interpretation.
Sara: Absolutely love your Nell pic! For my visual of Dora’s aunts I borrowed from The Walton’s and imagined the Baldwin sisters. Minus the moonshine, of course. Lol!
      Dora would be fine if she married a rich man with a house full of servants who only wanted someone pretty as an adornment, someone who didn't want his wife to have a mind of her own. In A Doll's House, Ibsen's heroine resents that life but Dora is happy to be treated like a doll. Unfortunately, even if he would be satisfied with her limited abilities, David isn't a rich man and won't be for a long time.
    
        
      I do recommend David Perdue's page to any Charles Dickens enthusiast. It was originally written, I believe, as a homage to his wife, and has developed over the years. It is set out like a magazine with subjects down the left hand side, including a page for each novel, and all the Phiz illustrations for some (but not all) of them. The page of illustrations for this novel is what France-Andrée linked to. There are Dickens-related adverts to keep it going, and these are quite fun :)
I was going to link to the home page, but I find that even there there are spoilers! So unless you have a basic idea of the plot of most of his novels, such as who Nancy is, or what happens to Little Nell, I wouldn't advise going on there except to look at a specific theme, or novel - and even then only when you have finished it, to get a bit of background.
These are just my thoughts, as I really hate spoilers! But "take it under advisement" as they say, and google to find it if you wish.
  
  
  I was going to link to the home page, but I find that even there there are spoilers! So unless you have a basic idea of the plot of most of his novels, such as who Nancy is, or what happens to Little Nell, I wouldn't advise going on there except to look at a specific theme, or novel - and even then only when you have finished it, to get a bit of background.
These are just my thoughts, as I really hate spoilers! But "take it under advisement" as they say, and google to find it if you wish.
        
      Chapter 42:
The narrator David stresses, that although he is writing a journal for his eyes only, he wants to record how hard he worked at this time. He tried his best at everything he attempted, and this was largely due to Agnes's influence.
Agnes comes to visit, as Dr Strong wishes to talk with her father, Mr. Wickfield, who is his old friend. Mrs Heep had wanted to come along, for a "change of air" and Uriah is to see her settled in her lodgings. Uriah tells David that he wants to keep an eye on "the beloved one". David knows that he means Agnes, from what Uriah says about no longer being jealous of her because of David, although neither of them mentions her name.
Uriah "gave me a sidelong glance out of his sinister red eyes, and laughed ... His eyes looked green now, as they watched mine with a rascally cunning."
Uriah takes a long time to get to his point, all the time hinting before actually saying:
"I mean Mr. Maldon!"
And David's "heart quite died within me". Never having admitted to himself that anything was amiss between Annie Strong, preferring to push doubts away for "the Doctor’s happiness and peace" he can now see that Uriah will never be satisfied with "all the mingled possibilities of innocence and compromise", and whatever the truth of the matter, he will twist it to his own advantage.
"We umble ones have got eyes, mostly speaking—and we look out of ‘em."
David tries to look unconcerned, but to no avail, and the last he sees of Uriah, laughing soundlessly to himself, makes him feel "repelled by his odious behaviour".
He gives his mind to worrying about whether Agnes and Dora will like each other. Two days later, he is to accompany Agnes in a visit to see Dora at Putney:

David and Dora - Fred Barnard
Dora is apprehensive about meeting such a "clever" friend of David's, that she hides behind the door again for several minutes. But as soon as she sees Agnes:
"looking at once so cheerful and so earnest, and so thoughtful, and so good, she gave a faint little cry of pleased surprise, and just put her affectionate arms round Agnes’s neck, and laid her innocent cheek against her face."
The visit proceeds as well as David could have hoped, with everyone making much of Dora, who is merry and happy. As David says goodbye to her she seems unusually thoughtful, wondering "why you ever fell in love with me". But the moment passes with lighthearted remarks. Their friendship is so mutual, that Dora is to write to Agnes, and Agnes is to write to Dora.
The stage-coach for Agnes and David is to break its journey to Highgate, at Covent Garden, when they will have a bit of a walk to the next point of departure, and David is keen to know Agnes's opinions and thoughts of Dora. She is full of praise, and although she never says so, David understands that Agnes is urging him that he will need to take special care of this "pretty ... orphan child".
Inwardly, David is still worried about the possibility of Agnes marrying Uriah Heep, and asks if there is any change at home. She reassures him by saying "the step you dread my taking, I shall never take."
After they have parted, on his way back to the Inn where he is to sleep, David notices a light in Doctor Strong’s study. As he enters, a shocking tableau meets his eyes. By lamplight he can see Uriah "with one of his skeleton hands over his mouth, and the other resting on the Doctor’s table". Doctor Strong is sitting with his face in his hands, and Mr. Wickfield, "sorely troubled and distressed" is leaning over him with concern.
David's immediate fear that Dr Strong is ill, vanishes when Uriah boldly says, with a writhe of his ungainly person:
"At any rate ... we may keep the door shut. We needn’t make it known to ALL the town."
Uriah makes the most of his position, to say the suspicions others have about "the goings-on of Mrs. Strong" and Jack Malden, calling on both Mr Wickfield and David to bear him out. He completely ignores that fact that all David and Mr Wickfield are concerned about is the distress Dr Strong is clearly feeling.
"I wonder now, when I recall his leer, that I did not collar him, and try to shake the breath out of his body."
But when faced with a direct question, Mr Wickfield has to express his honest concerns; that he had used to try to keep Agnes apart from Annie, and even:
"I thought, at one time ... that you wished to send Maldon abroad to effect a desirable separation."
David despises Uriah's "fawning and offensive pity". When Uriah asks him to confirm his suspicions too, David remains silent but his facial expression reveals all.
Although Dr Strong is so very shocked, he eventually says:
"I have been much to blame. I believe I have been very much to blame." By marrying Annie, with such a difference of age, he believes that he is responsible for the aspersions that have been cast upon her. He now feels that he may have asked her to make the decision before she was mature enough to make it, and is sorry for it:
"To save her from ... cruel misconstruction ... becomes my duty. The more retired we live, the better I shall discharge it."
and says it will not be long before his death will free her from constraint.
Mr Wickfield helps him upstairs, and David is so enraged by Uriah that he slaps him on the face as hard as he can. Uriah is astonished and says that David has been against him from the start:
"And yet I always liked you, Copperfield! ... there can’t be a quarrel without two parties, and I won’t be one. I will be a friend to you, in spite of you. So now you know what you’ve got to expect."
David suspects that his lacking hesitation in making his outburst is because he no longer fears for Agnes:
"I rather think that neither the blow, nor the allusion, would have escaped me, but for the assurance I had had from Agnes that night."
but his feelings of outrage persist, and prevent him sleeping well. The rest of the week passes. The only person David confides in is his Aunt. As the weeks pass, Annie increasingly behaves as if something is wrong, but she seems confused, as if she does not know what it could be. Mrs Markleham is often there, but oblivious. Dr Strong is as considerate as ever, but does not seem to very close to Annie, and always arranging some new amusements for her, away from home, with her mother.
"Annie, in a spiritless unhappy way, only went whither she was led, and seemed to have no care for anything."
The only thing that seems to make a difference is when Mr Dick resumes his walks up and down the garden with Dr Strong, and also spending time with Annie in her garden work. In this way, and loving them both, he made a link between them. David admires him greatly for being able to do this, with his simple ways.
David is aware that Uriah receives business letters from Mr Micawber every day, but is surprised one day to receive a letter to himself, from Mrs Micawber.
In it she confides that Mr Micawber is very unlike himself. He has become very secretive, reserved, morose and severe. Also, Mrs Micawber is finding it difficult to get any money from him to pay the bills. She asks David's advice, and he responds by advising her to remain patient and kind, but the letter makes him start thinking about Mr Micawber.
  
  
  The narrator David stresses, that although he is writing a journal for his eyes only, he wants to record how hard he worked at this time. He tried his best at everything he attempted, and this was largely due to Agnes's influence.
Agnes comes to visit, as Dr Strong wishes to talk with her father, Mr. Wickfield, who is his old friend. Mrs Heep had wanted to come along, for a "change of air" and Uriah is to see her settled in her lodgings. Uriah tells David that he wants to keep an eye on "the beloved one". David knows that he means Agnes, from what Uriah says about no longer being jealous of her because of David, although neither of them mentions her name.
Uriah "gave me a sidelong glance out of his sinister red eyes, and laughed ... His eyes looked green now, as they watched mine with a rascally cunning."
Uriah takes a long time to get to his point, all the time hinting before actually saying:
"I mean Mr. Maldon!"
And David's "heart quite died within me". Never having admitted to himself that anything was amiss between Annie Strong, preferring to push doubts away for "the Doctor’s happiness and peace" he can now see that Uriah will never be satisfied with "all the mingled possibilities of innocence and compromise", and whatever the truth of the matter, he will twist it to his own advantage.
"We umble ones have got eyes, mostly speaking—and we look out of ‘em."
David tries to look unconcerned, but to no avail, and the last he sees of Uriah, laughing soundlessly to himself, makes him feel "repelled by his odious behaviour".
He gives his mind to worrying about whether Agnes and Dora will like each other. Two days later, he is to accompany Agnes in a visit to see Dora at Putney:

David and Dora - Fred Barnard
Dora is apprehensive about meeting such a "clever" friend of David's, that she hides behind the door again for several minutes. But as soon as she sees Agnes:
"looking at once so cheerful and so earnest, and so thoughtful, and so good, she gave a faint little cry of pleased surprise, and just put her affectionate arms round Agnes’s neck, and laid her innocent cheek against her face."
The visit proceeds as well as David could have hoped, with everyone making much of Dora, who is merry and happy. As David says goodbye to her she seems unusually thoughtful, wondering "why you ever fell in love with me". But the moment passes with lighthearted remarks. Their friendship is so mutual, that Dora is to write to Agnes, and Agnes is to write to Dora.
The stage-coach for Agnes and David is to break its journey to Highgate, at Covent Garden, when they will have a bit of a walk to the next point of departure, and David is keen to know Agnes's opinions and thoughts of Dora. She is full of praise, and although she never says so, David understands that Agnes is urging him that he will need to take special care of this "pretty ... orphan child".
Inwardly, David is still worried about the possibility of Agnes marrying Uriah Heep, and asks if there is any change at home. She reassures him by saying "the step you dread my taking, I shall never take."
After they have parted, on his way back to the Inn where he is to sleep, David notices a light in Doctor Strong’s study. As he enters, a shocking tableau meets his eyes. By lamplight he can see Uriah "with one of his skeleton hands over his mouth, and the other resting on the Doctor’s table". Doctor Strong is sitting with his face in his hands, and Mr. Wickfield, "sorely troubled and distressed" is leaning over him with concern.
David's immediate fear that Dr Strong is ill, vanishes when Uriah boldly says, with a writhe of his ungainly person:
"At any rate ... we may keep the door shut. We needn’t make it known to ALL the town."
Uriah makes the most of his position, to say the suspicions others have about "the goings-on of Mrs. Strong" and Jack Malden, calling on both Mr Wickfield and David to bear him out. He completely ignores that fact that all David and Mr Wickfield are concerned about is the distress Dr Strong is clearly feeling.
"I wonder now, when I recall his leer, that I did not collar him, and try to shake the breath out of his body."
But when faced with a direct question, Mr Wickfield has to express his honest concerns; that he had used to try to keep Agnes apart from Annie, and even:
"I thought, at one time ... that you wished to send Maldon abroad to effect a desirable separation."
David despises Uriah's "fawning and offensive pity". When Uriah asks him to confirm his suspicions too, David remains silent but his facial expression reveals all.
Although Dr Strong is so very shocked, he eventually says:
"I have been much to blame. I believe I have been very much to blame." By marrying Annie, with such a difference of age, he believes that he is responsible for the aspersions that have been cast upon her. He now feels that he may have asked her to make the decision before she was mature enough to make it, and is sorry for it:
"To save her from ... cruel misconstruction ... becomes my duty. The more retired we live, the better I shall discharge it."
and says it will not be long before his death will free her from constraint.
Mr Wickfield helps him upstairs, and David is so enraged by Uriah that he slaps him on the face as hard as he can. Uriah is astonished and says that David has been against him from the start:
"And yet I always liked you, Copperfield! ... there can’t be a quarrel without two parties, and I won’t be one. I will be a friend to you, in spite of you. So now you know what you’ve got to expect."
David suspects that his lacking hesitation in making his outburst is because he no longer fears for Agnes:
"I rather think that neither the blow, nor the allusion, would have escaped me, but for the assurance I had had from Agnes that night."
but his feelings of outrage persist, and prevent him sleeping well. The rest of the week passes. The only person David confides in is his Aunt. As the weeks pass, Annie increasingly behaves as if something is wrong, but she seems confused, as if she does not know what it could be. Mrs Markleham is often there, but oblivious. Dr Strong is as considerate as ever, but does not seem to very close to Annie, and always arranging some new amusements for her, away from home, with her mother.
"Annie, in a spiritless unhappy way, only went whither she was led, and seemed to have no care for anything."
The only thing that seems to make a difference is when Mr Dick resumes his walks up and down the garden with Dr Strong, and also spending time with Annie in her garden work. In this way, and loving them both, he made a link between them. David admires him greatly for being able to do this, with his simple ways.
David is aware that Uriah receives business letters from Mr Micawber every day, but is surprised one day to receive a letter to himself, from Mrs Micawber.
In it she confides that Mr Micawber is very unlike himself. He has become very secretive, reserved, morose and severe. Also, Mrs Micawber is finding it difficult to get any money from him to pay the bills. She asks David's advice, and he responds by advising her to remain patient and kind, but the letter makes him start thinking about Mr Micawber.
        
      This is a long chapter, in which a lot happens. The voice of the older David is more pronounced here, and events are coloured so much by the younger David's reactions and opinions, that an objective synopsis is difficult. By now we are very much of David's view. We are sorry that he is so smitten with a child-like young woman, when we can see another who would be a far better choice. However we trust his instincts as to the others around him, especially Uriah Heep, and so we sympathise and concur with his views of the events, especially now that he has stressed that it is his own private account, and how hard he is working.
 
Titled "Mischief" we see the effects of mischief in more than one area.
We are left wondering what is in store for Dr and Annie Strong, who are both now broken-hearted. Also, why is Mr Micawber so changed? Is it some machination of Uriah Heep's? There are deliberate plot hints, teasing our imaginations, inviting us to follow them, such as the unequal relationship between David and Dora.
But there's another puzzle, which may or may not be deliberate:
Why does Uriah Heep insist that he will still be David's friend? It's a useful plot device (by Charles Dickens) for us to be privy to all Uriah's intentions through his talks with David, but how does his frankness (or as much as he is capable of it!) with David benefit Uriah himself? Is it realistic?
Was anyone else surprised that David would slap someone in the face? It seems rather more like the reaction a woman would have!
And what about Dora? Why is is everyone smitten with this simple child-adult, who needs such constant care and attention? Her simple mind is a little like that of Mr Dick, but Mr Dickens has an innate natural wisdom, whereas Dora causes difficulties, her only asset appearing to be decorative. Is her universal appeal believable, I wonder?
  
  
  Titled "Mischief" we see the effects of mischief in more than one area.
We are left wondering what is in store for Dr and Annie Strong, who are both now broken-hearted. Also, why is Mr Micawber so changed? Is it some machination of Uriah Heep's? There are deliberate plot hints, teasing our imaginations, inviting us to follow them, such as the unequal relationship between David and Dora.
But there's another puzzle, which may or may not be deliberate:
Why does Uriah Heep insist that he will still be David's friend? It's a useful plot device (by Charles Dickens) for us to be privy to all Uriah's intentions through his talks with David, but how does his frankness (or as much as he is capable of it!) with David benefit Uriah himself? Is it realistic?
Was anyone else surprised that David would slap someone in the face? It seems rather more like the reaction a woman would have!
And what about Dora? Why is is everyone smitten with this simple child-adult, who needs such constant care and attention? Her simple mind is a little like that of Mr Dick, but Mr Dickens has an innate natural wisdom, whereas Dora causes difficulties, her only asset appearing to be decorative. Is her universal appeal believable, I wonder?
      I didn't think Uriah Heep could sink any lower, but he did.Why does he care that Annie is too friendly with her cousin? It appears that he takes pleasure in making other people miserable.
He has even begun to poison Mr. Micawber's nature.
Is Micawber in debt to Uriah? That might explain his behaviour. Or does he have a darker secret?
Books mentioned in this topic
Sense and Sensibility - Jane Austen: Annotated (other topics)Middlemarch (other topics)
The Vampyre (other topics)
David Copperfield (other topics)
Oliver Twist (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
John Mullen (other topics)Catherine Thomson Dickens (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
John William Polidori (other topics)
Jane Austen (other topics)
More...




Trois fois passera, passera la dernière, la dernière
Trois fois passera, la dernière y restera
(Three times will go through, will go through the last one, the last one
Three times will go through, the last will stay)