ALATT Book Club discussion
Book #1: The Bone Clocks
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Stories #1 and #2 Up to Page 206 (January 15th)
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1. I feel like Holly might be so obnoxious in part because of the voices. The way she remembers her treatment, with her Mom repeating that she's fine, she's not crazy, sets the stage for the fight that starts off the book. Holly's mom seems to be fighting so hard to keep Holly safe, and it's backfiring. I did find Holly annoying, but also resilient. She learned a lot in the 72 or so hours she was away from home, and that's obvious by the time we see her again in the second story. She's world weary, but also seems to be hiding. 2. Gwyn was running away from a terrible situation. It seems like Holly was running back to a horrible situation, one that she blames herself for. I think Gwyn gave Holly a dose of reality, but also some kindness.
3. I don't know if Brubeck knows about the voices, but he knows something more than he's saying. Like the old woman who was more than in the right place at the right time, his appearance seems controlled or influenced by something more than chance. I'm not sure if he's involved with either side of the 'war' or whatever is going on that we're just seeing glimpses of, but I have a feeling he will come to Holly's aid again.
Speaking of characters I found annoying, Hugo Lamb is a world class jerk. His narration felt like he was charming himself, as though he needs to filter his own actions through a charming facade to make it so he can live with himself. Has he ever had any self doubt?
1. I actually don't hate Holly as a character. She's doing what is normal when it comes to building your own life as a teenager--who amongst us didn't emotionally box with our adults from time to time? She feels displaced and deals with it accordingly (and, to be honest, in a way that is expected). As for the "radio people," I don't really get that she was influenced by them. For the most part, it seems as though she's got an amiable relationship with them...a symbiosis kind of deal. She's not profiting or gaining from the situation; if she was, couldn't she have used them to find Jacko?2. Gwyn's situation as a character is the foil to Holly's lack of situation. Gwyn has something to run from. Holly has some teenage angst going on that she is trying to process. Gwyn has the worldly knowledge to suggest to Holly that she might reevaluate things and see that petulant teenage moments might not be so the best time to make life decisions.
3. Brubeck seems to just be looking for a friend, and there may be a basis of attraction there (Come on, dude. Bodies pressed together in an organ chamber? You don't do that with someone you're physically repulsed by). Brubeck is vital to the story, but I felt as though he was just a plot pusher...someone needed to talk about the strawberry field job and someone needed to know where to look when Jacko went missing. How did he know, though, that she'd gone there? Psychic tendencies?
What I find fascinating about this part of the book is that all of the people who Holly has met so far seem to be missing something...looking for something in a way. Even our dear friend Hugo Lamb (who is WAAAAAYYY too Holden Caufield for my tastes) is a lost character. I'm curious to see how this plays out in the rest of the story.
Okay, sorry I'm late. I only just got the book like two days before this first section was supposed to open for discussion. Lol. 1. I think it's possible that the memory of the "radio people" influenced her more than she knew. I'm sure part of it is that all teenagers are brats at times. However, just because she couldn't hear the radio voices anymore doesn't necessarily mean that they weren't there or that they were subtly influencing her. Overall, I think Holly's behavior is pretty normal. I didn't really find her obnoxious - just realistic!
2. Gwyn is basically the prime example for why to run away. She provides sort of an older mentor role for Holly. She can say, "Look. I know. I understand. I've been there." BUT, Gwyn really has a genuinely awful situation going on that totally justifies running away versus Holly's teenage angst. Gwyn also serves, in a way, as a warning. A way for Holly to see what her life would/could be like if she continued to run away.
3. I don't think he knows about them. He just seems like a solid kid who is frequently misunderstood and wants a friend. Holly herself is a bit strange at times. Maybe Brubeck can sense her slightly more hidden strangeness and he relates to that.
Aisha, Brubeck just struck me as the type of teen who perhaps is wise beyond his years and maybe that's why he seems so sure of himself. I didn't consider him mysticism at all. But that's just me. :)
Eileen, it took me several pages into Story #2 to connect Holly with the Holly from Story #1! Lol. I remember I was just reading and suddenly it was like, "WAIT. HOLLY. THAT HOLLY." XD Also, you're right. Hugo is a total tosser.
I thought Holly was a bit reactionary ~ one well deserved slap & she runs for the door ? I loved that her big show of independence was swiftly met with a giant dose of reality. Mr Wonderful ? Oh ~ he's shagging your best friend. BAM ! But like a true heroine ~ she perseveres in her attempt to be an adult & does not return home ~ tail between her legs. I gave her a lot of credit for that. In for a penny, in for a pound.
I have to say, Theresa, that I don't think that I would have been brave enough to run away in the first place - let alone to stay away once my boyfriend turned out to be such a plonker!
Mel-From the description of the French skier in the mint green jacket, then the bartender, and even the first few interactions between Holly and Hugo, I wasn't really sure it was the same person. I think the changes she must have gone through in those 10 years would have been so much more interesting than the whole Hugo nonsense. Ugh, I hope he changes a huge amount before we see him again too, but something tells me all of his annoying habits will be helpful to this new secret society he's being pulled into.
I was surprised that Hugo didn't stay with Holly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there some mention of when "you and the boy" get to a location? I figured it would be Brubeck, but then it wasn't....then I thought Hugo...but then it wasn't.
I picked up on that too, Jen! I'm not sure what that was about. >_<
Eileen, you're totally right. I want to fill in the gaps of Holly's story more!
I know I'm posting here super duper late, but it took a while for me to get a copy from my library. I'm reading as quickly as possible so I can catch up with the group!Q1. What is your take on Holly? Is she really this bratty teenager or did the ghosts in her head influence her more than she knew?
A1. Poor Holly. She has a lot of things going against her: she's not a scholar, she's not obviously talented in anything, she doesn't seem to have hobbies, she has few friends, she's a middle child, and she's in a low social class since she's the daughter of a pub landlord *and* the daughter of an Irish woman. She doesn't stand out in any way, and any avenues she has to stand out or establish freedom are taken from her by others.
The radio people are taken away from her - symbolically by her mother's denial and physically by the doctor. Her boyfriend is taken away from her by her best friend (so she loses her friend also). Her most interesting situations and interactions with people are erased from her memory. Even her most independent experience of running away and its impact on her family and schoolmates are taken away by Jocko's disappearance.
I feel like Holly shut down and gave up because she was tired of trying when everything kept being taken from her. Even when she finally is out on her own, she is still stuck in poor circumstances working at a job she doesn't like, serving people whom she disdains, and living in someone else's place with their leftover things.
My biggest disappointment with Holly is that she never went to the library or a museum to try to figure out the meaning of the necklace Jocko gave her. Where did a young kid get such a necklace, anyways? Granted, this is in character because she isn't inclined to scholarship and her parents aren't the types to take her to the library on a regular basis. But still... Guuuuuurl, you have a giant clue handed to you by a very obviously archetypal "magical child" and you can't be bovvered to follow up on it?!
Q2. The Welsh girl in the farm shows someone who like Holly is running from something. How does she compare to the end of Holly's story?
A2. Gwyn's story shows Holly that while Holly's own life isn't "good," it also isn't completely "bad." I agree with the others here who feel that Gwyn serves as a warning to Holly about the realistic life of a runaway teen. Gwyn also, along with Ed, provides Holly with some compassion and advocacy, and that helps to smooth Holly's ruffled feathers.
Q3. The boy Holly meets with who is trying to get her home? Does he know about the voices in her head?
A3. I think Ed Brubeck intuits that there is something odd beneath the surface, but he doesn't want to push Holly about it because he senses she's in irrational flight mode. He just appears, helps guide Holly, and then goes back to Hermitsville.
Also... Oh no, Hugo.
This dude is the worst. So far there's been a lot of theft going on. Holly has so much stolen from her, there's stealing at the church, a body is stolen by another being, Jocko might have stolen a magic necklace, someone might have stolen Jocko, and possibly sanity and/or souls are being stolen by supernatural beings. Now here's Hugo, a master thief and impostor who has become very outwardly successful by being an awful person. Eileen, I agree that his narration has a charming facade over it because he's part of his own audience. I do think he has nothing but self-doubt at the core because if he had once in his life felt like he was enough just as he is, then he wouldn't have invested so much time building a false self. Here's what I wonder about Hugo: If he had taken all of his talents and intelligence and used them in a positive way by expending just as much effort as he had on using them negatively, would he have been as outwardly successful?
Mel wrote: "Eileen, it took me several pages into Story #2 to connect Holly with the Holly from Story #1! Lol. I remember I was just reading and suddenly it was like, "WAIT. HOLLY. THAT HOLLY." XDI'm *so* glad I wasn't the only one who didn't pick up on the girl being a grown-up Holly. I didn't expect Holly to wear anything as brightly colored as a mint green jacket. It was only when Holly was described in the bar as being dour and dark that I connected the dots.
I'm very far behind in my reading too, but I have just entered a part of the book that so far has me saying "WHAT???" Hope I can catch on...and catch up :)
As I have not read up to this point yet I have no discussion questions yet. Neither do I expect any of you to have gotten to this point in 24 hours. I'm only setting this up so we have something.
Questions for Story One.
1. What is your take on Holly? Is she really this bratty teenager or did the ghosts in her head influence her more than she knew?
2. The Welsh girl in the farm shows someone who like Holly is running from something. How does she compare to the end of Holly's story?
3. The boy Holly meets with who is trying to get her home? Does he know about the voices in her head?
The Discussion is now....Open for story one and two.