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Week 1 - Chapters 1-7 (2015 discussion)
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Anastasia Kinderman, The Only
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Jan 01, 2015 08:37AM
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I had forgotten how delicious the opening chapters of NA were. Almost every sentence is a morsel of sheer delight. Her situation in life, the character of her father and mother, her own person and disposition, were all equally against her...
Having a clergyman father who didn't neglect her, was respectable, and was well off, and a mother who hadn't died in childbirth but had a comfortable family of ten, is "against her"! Most people would think that would be a favorable family situation, but it isn't what makes a Gothic Heroine, who should be a neglected orphan, destitute, but beautiful beneath her rags and dirty face.
She was fond of boys play, of cricket, wild, clearly a tomboy, again fatal attributes for a Gothic Heroine, who should be a helpless weak female, fainting at every distress.
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Anastasia wrote: "I'm enjoying this first section of Northanger Abbey. I can't help wondering if Catherine is intended to satirize novel heroines of the day."I would say absolutely so.
I have never really appreciated humour in Jane Austen until this novel. Chapter 6 is genuinely laugh out loud funny (which I couldn't do since I was reading it while waiting for our church service to begin last night!)At some stage we should read The Mysteries of Udolpho as a group read since it qualifies. It is often mentioned in Regency romances and makes quite a few appearances in Georgette Heyer's books.
At the end of Chapter 5 she is quite scathing of book critics who disparage novels. I know it was quite a fashion at the time to disregard novels and she must have had quite a few critical reviews in her time. So far I am loving this novel.
I love the beginning too and I do think it kind of sets the tone of the book - a gentle satire of all that is funny or even ridiculous in the 18th century Gothic Romances. Some of it may be still very true and very much applicable for certain books of 21st century!
I love this book. Have read it three times. I agree with Everyman about the beginning. It's hilarious, so well structured and clever.I've read Udolpho, was disappointed though. Austen's stab at critics is very well done. O for more books by the amazing Austen.
Anastasia wrote: "I'm enjoying this first section of Northanger Abbey. I can't help wondering if Catherine is intended to satirize novel heroines of the day."I think that I read somewhere that NA is intended to be a satire of the gothic novel. So if that is true, Catherine may be a satire of a heroine.
Carolien wrote: "At the end of Chapter 5 she is quite scathing of book critics who disparage novels. I know it was quite a fashion at the time to disregard novels and she must have had quite a few critical reviews in her time. So far I am loving this novel. "Also, Carolien, JA also takes to task the disdainful attitude toward novel-reading by characters in the novels themselves as written by the novelists.
It was an excellent defense of novelists and the value of novels.
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Her rant was amazing, I get the feeling it was a bit of a sore subject for JA!
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I think that I read somewhere that N..."
I find that very likely. Catherine is in no way a "heroine" but she seems to expect that she must have adventures, like other heroines.
Lisa wrote: "I love this book. Have read it three times. I agree with Everyman about the beginning. It's hilarious, so well structured and clever."
Lisa, I agree with your comments. I am loving NA!
I had read somewhere that NA was JAs satire of the gothic novel and therefore, I did not expect to like as well as I have her other works. Well, I needn't have worried. So far, this novel has everything that I like and expect to find in JAs novels. Especially her humor.
I figured out how to highlight passages with my kindle app. and I saved some of JAs chuckle-inducing comments:JA’s Characterization:
Mrs. Allen was one of that numerous class of females, whose society can raise no other emotion than surprise at there being any men in the world who could like them well enough to marry them.
--Chapter 2
Mrs Allen and Mrs Thorpe’s friendship:
Mrs. Allen had no similar information go give, no similar triumphs to press on an unwilling and unbelieving ear of her friend, and was forced to sit and appear to listen to all these material effusions, consoling herself, however, with the discovery, which her keen eye soon made, that the lace on Mrs. Thorpe’s pelisse was not half so handsome as that on her own.
JA’s humor:
This brief account of the family is intended to supersede the necessity of a long and munute detail from Mrs. Thorpe herself, of her past adventures and suffereings, which might otherwise be expected to occupy the three or four following chapters; in which the worthlessness of lords and attorneys might be se forth, and conversations, which passed twenty years before be minutely repeated.
--Chapter 4
JA on what good conversation should NOT be:
Mrs. Allen was now quite happy—quite satisfied with Bath. She had found some acquaintance, had been lucky to as to find in them the family of a most worthy old friend; and, as the completion of good fortune, had found these friends by means so expensively dressed as herself.
How glad I am to have met Mrs. Thorpe!... Never satisfied with the day unless she spent the chief of it by the side of Mrs. Thorpe. In what they called conversation, but in which there was scarcely ever any exchange of opinion, and not often any resemblance of subject, for Mrs. Thorpe talked chiefly of her children, and Mrs. Allen of her gowns
---Chapter 5
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Carolien wrote: "At the end of Chapter 5 she is quite scathing of book critics who disparage novels. I know it was quite a fashion at the time to disregard novels and she must have had quite a few critical reviews in her time"Yes, novels were suspect (they were still, in Austen's day, a fairly new and novel experiment in writing, unlike the accepted genres of poetry, sermons, history, essays, and a few other genres.)
Though Austen delightfully balances this out in Chapter 7 with
" "Udolpho! Oh, Lord! Not I; I never read novels; I have something else to do."
Catherine, humbled and ashamed, was going to apologize for her question, but he prevented her by saying, "Novels are all so full of nonsense and stuff; there has not been a tolerably decent one come out since Tom Jones, except The Monk; I read that t'other day; but as for all the others, they are the stupidest things in creation." "
Andrea (Catsos Person) wrote: "I figured out how to highlight passages with my kindle app. and I saved some of JAs chuckle-inducing comments:"Almost the whole book is a constant chuckle.
on the difficulty of rossing Cheap Street: "it is indeed a street of so impertinent a nature, so unfortunately connected with the great London and Oxford roads, and the principal inn of the city, that a day never passes in which parties of ladies, however important their business, whether in quest of pastry, millinery, or even (as in the present case) of young men,..."
I love the idea of an impertinent street, and what ladies consider important business.
I forgot to ask everyone when I posted earlier:Is anyone at this point feeling mistrust of Miss Thorpe?
Its always nice to make enthusiastic new friends, but Miss Thorpe too OTT and too effusive. She sends off alarm bells for me.
Andrea (Catsos Person) wrote: "I forgot to ask everyone when I posted earlier:Is anyone at this point feeling mistrust of Miss Thorpe?"
Not really alarm bells. I think she's insincere and won't be a good friend, but alarm bells suggest danger, and I don't see that, at least yet.
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And then it turns out he mistook Udulpho for another book!
When I say alarm bells, I don't think that Catherine is in physical danger from Miss Thorpe. However, disappointment that a friend is not what one thinks when one is as young as Catherine can be painful. So I guess this is the "danger" that I am in fear of for Catherine.
I think Miss Thorpe is using Catherine to impress Catherine's brother. It won't harm her prospects with him if she is good friends with her sister. So I suspect ulterior motives, but fairly harmless.
Carolien wrote: "I think Miss Thorpe is using Catherine to impress Catherine's brother. It won't harm her prospects with him if she is good friends with her sister. So I suspect ulterior motives, but fairly harmless."That is my take on things too. Catherine seems so young and naïve and Mrs Allen, who should be advising her, too obsessed with her gowns to be of use!
Helen_in_the_uk wrote: "C...Mrs Allen, who should be advising her, too obsessed with her gowns to be of use! "Mrs. Allen is delightfully drawn, but you're right, Catherine's parents were irresponsible to let her go off with only Mrs. Allen to look after her.
Everyman wrote: "Helen_in_the_uk wrote: "C...Mrs Allen, who should be advising her, too obsessed with her gowns to be of use! "Mrs. Allen is delightfully drawn, but you're right, Catherine's parents were irrespon..."
I think her parents were relying on her upbringing and the good sense that they had tried to instill in her. And, perhaps, too, they were so un-wordly themselves that they didn't see any dangers?
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Charlene wrote: "I think the one who would be able to guide Catherine is Mr. Allen. But he brought Catherine to Bath with them so he didn't have to put up with Mrs. Allen."He does seem to be much more grounded than his wife, doesn't he?
My comment disappeared! I was simply liking it to a tennis tournament: Udolpho vs dress materials. Both appear to be equally important. Perhaps they are ...
Hilary wrote: "My comment disappeared! I was simply liking it to a tennis tournament: Udolpho vs dress materials. Both appear to be equally important. Perhaps they are ..."Did your comment disappear instantly? Mine have a couple of times,too. Weird.
Looks left: Udolpho. Looks right: dress materials. A tennis match indeed!
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Yes Karlyne that's exactly what happened , but you summarised perfectly! :-)
Hilary wrote: "Yes Karlyne that's exactly what happened , but you summarised perfectly! :-)"But it was your great idea!
:-). :-) :-). Thanks!
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I just finished Chapter 7, and I'm enjoying the book very much. Jane Austen can be quite funny, and I'm really loving some of her sly little jabs and digs. I agree with previous comments that Mrs Allen falls quite short as a chaperone. Somebody needs to keep an eye on those Thorpes-- that brother is very cringe-worthy! I'm also liking all the mentions of Udolpho-- I love Ann Radcliffe's books.
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Just so you don't miss the new discussions, here is the link: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Charlene wrote: "Suki wrote: "I just finished Chapter 7, and I'm enjoying the book very much. Jane Austen can be quite funny, and I'm really loving some of her sly little jabs and digs. I agree with previous commen..."Thanks, Charlene. I wasn't sure where I should be commenting. :-)
message 40:
by
Anastasia Kinderman, The Only
(last edited Oct 15, 2019 05:00PM)
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rated it 5 stars
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I found it interesting to come back and reread this discussion now that we are rereading the book!
I'm also following these older discussions as I read through the book.
