January Classics Read - The Picture of Dorian Gray

[IShita]

Purvika, (view spoiler)[ Which ones? :P

Thanks anyway :) (hide spoiler)]

[Purvika]

@Ishita (view spoiler)[ about Henry being a .......... ( fill In your preferred choice of word)
(hide spoiler)]

[IShita]

Purvika, (view spoiler)[ LOL, okay! :D (hide spoiler)]

[Anirudh]

@Ishita, Well.. somebody is really mad at Henry :D:D

(view spoiler)[ Yes that is true. He did indeed steal Dorian from Basil and was not apologetic about it. Basil knew it would happen but could not prevent it.

How is the world is calling her a working class girl sexist??!?! O_o One is sexist when one discriminates based on gender.

What I mean is she is a girl who works for a living unlike Dorian and Party. She is aware of the harsh realities of life. She is not an upper class girl who is shielded from all possible ugly sides of life. She has lived a hard life So killing herself over Dorian that too so quickly like that was foolish. She did not even know his name. (hide spoiler)]

[IShita]

(view spoiler)[ No, I meant blaming her for her foolishness, as a girl, to have fallen for Dorian. It was just as much his mistake for letting it happen, as her! I don't see you blamig him for it?
That was put at the wrong place, I realize that. Sorry.

It makes sense when you put it that way but when you straight out blame her for falling for him based on the fact that she was a (working class) girl, is wrong. (hide spoiler)]

[Anirudh]

@Ishita,
(view spoiler)[ I think you misunderstood what I said. Her falling for Dorian, separate point, working class thing separate point. I didn't blame her for falling for him, I said it was foolish of her to kill herself over him. Someone who she barely knew.

Of course I blamed Dorian. For all his foolish acts and then not taking responsibility for them.

Again, what I meant by working class is, she is aware of ordinary life, realities of life unlike Dorian. But she acted as if she was a doomed heroine of one of her plays. Foolishly ending her life over a silly thing like Dorian. (hide spoiler)]

[Purvika]

@ Ishita & Anirudh (view spoiler)[ I too think it was plain stupid on her part. How could she kill herself for someone she knew only from some night. Also, being a working class makes one more strong against such people. But with her, I think the way she idolised Shakespeare's stories and how she had said that she lived them. She thought they were the best example of love. And sadly all female characters in Shakespeare's play either committed suicide or died for some reason or other. I think she never thought beyond Shakespeare. Her poor act also was an example that she wanted to feel the love all these characters felt but from Dorian that was why she could not pretend do to be all those characters again.

As for Dorian, not a single act he did in entire book, that could be counted as right or wise. Whatever he did was for himself. He followed Henry's words because he wanted to test his own limits and beyond. He started loving sybil because he somehow wanted all those Shakespearean love for himself and left her when she showed him otherwise. In my eyes, he was no better than Henry. In fact he was worse. (hide spoiler)]

[Anirudh]

@Purvika, (view spoiler)[ Agreed. She was acting out those plays for too long. Her calling him prince charming itself can be considered as her notion of him. He was not a boy she liked but a hero from the stories. Despite having a mother who went through pretty much the same thing she ignored it all and thought of Dorian as something he clearly was not.

Dorian reminds me of kids who do bad thing then cry that it's not their fault. At least Henry knew and accepted his nature. Dorian didn't show any guilt on many occasions. He completely disregarded the feelings of others and always lived for himself. His jealously towards an unaging portrait itself shows his shallow nature. (hide spoiler)]

[Purvika]

@ Anirudh (view spoiler)[ Very true... It was so frustrating to see him get jealous of his own portrait. He was obsessed over it, in fact he was obsessed with himself. Hated his "put the blame on others" nature. I expected him to do vile things but Killing Basil was a shock. Poor guy, he was the only character who had a right mind. What do you think of the fantasy twist Wilde brought in ?.
You liked it or would it have been better to not make it somewhat fantasy and show that Dorian had truly lost his mind over his own portrait as to believe that the portrait took all of his sins ? (hide spoiler)]

[IShita]

Anirudh (view spoiler)[ oh, okay. Sorry :) (hide spoiler)]

Purvi (view spoiler)[ on the contrary, I think he left her for Henry. We all pretty much know by now how much he was influenced by him and before he came he did actually care for her, if not really love. He left her only to prove Henry that he was strong not foolish to fall for such a thing as love, and to impress Henry by fitting into his picture of Dorian.

Not only Shakespeare heroines but all his lovers kinda met with the same fate. True, she never thought beyond him. Maybe that's why she thought it'd eternalize her love if she died for it. For her notion was that every great love story ended in a tragedy.

I think Wilde bought in that twist because it was one of the easiest ways to convey what he actually wanted to- desires and greed leads one towards the doom of self. (hide spoiler)]

[Anirudh]

@Purvika, (view spoiler)[ It is not clear why the portrait changes. Probably because he sold his soul to get that bargain. Again not clear how. But it did not change the story much. Even if he had imagined the whole thing his behaviour would not have changed. I think this was more fitting as he chose his looks over his own soul. Show what kind of person he is. (hide spoiler)]

@Ishita, :)

[Ahtims]

(view spoiler)[
the change of portrait didn't make much sense to me. I would consider it to be Dorian's mind which is making us readers feel so, though I think Basil also felt that the portrait was evil, at one time (hide spoiler)]

[Anirudh]

Well it was definitely real because (view spoiler)[ He didn't age at all. But when he destroyed it he became an old man
(hide spoiler)]

I must say this Dorian Gray is nothing like the one from a league of extraordinary gentlemen :-\

[IShita]

(view spoiler)[ I think it was more like a case of "be careful what you wish for". I vaguely remember someone mentioning in the beginning if the portrait could age instead of him; and as it happened it also paid for all his sins and misgivings. I think it wasn't in Dorian's mind because later when he finally revealed the portrait to Basil even he saw evil in it and could not believe it was the same panting he had painted. Also, he never aged. Everyone in the community kept speculating about his secret. Dorian told him all about it. That was the reason he killed him- because he now knew his secret! I think Wilde chose this method because it was very reflective, not only for Dorian (who could see the picture that he treasured so much, turn into something so hideous that he had to move it away) but also for the readers who could ascertain evil that was Dorian. Besides, it's not uncommon for writers or screenplay writers to build a story around the topic of 'wishful thinking'. (hide spoiler)]

[Anirudh]

@Ishita, True, the painting did indeed took his age and sins.

We've had more discussion that I expected we would :-) I guess we can call the classic thread a successful start :-)

[Ahtims]

Next one?

[Purvika]

@Anirudh, Smitha & Ishita

(view spoiler)[
Though it was a good turn of event, picture taking all his sins and aging, and didn't took the limelight off the plot. I still feel that if it would have shown as just Dorian's imagination as he was so obsessed with his beauty. Then it would have suited the theme more. As in the end he would died because of his obsession and not because of knifing the painting (hide spoiler)]

[Purvika]

Anirudh wrote: "@Ishita, True, the painting did indeed took his age and sins.

We've had more discussion that I expected we would :-) I guess we can call the classic thread a successful start :-)"

Yeah...you see there are more classical readers than you would have expected lol.. :P

[Purvika]

PSmith wrote: "Next one?"

Will there be voting again.. :P

this time I will stick to count :P

[Anirudh]

@Purvika, Perhaps he hated what he had become in the end and by his nature blamed the painting this time :D

Yes. I am surprised :)

[Steven]

Anirudh wrote: "After reading this book how many of you plan to read more books by Wilde?"

I certainly want to. This was the most-enjoyable-and-most-horrible classic book I've read to date, but the horribleness seemed like an intentional art form to me. Are Wilde's other works at all similar?


I just finished the book, (view spoiler)[and one thing that resonated with me was the theme and imagery of flowers and fire throughout the book.

The flower, once wilted, doesn't come back -- much like Sybil, who seemed exactly like a flower to me (and, seemingly, to Dorian as well) in her beauty and the way others admired her. Dorian wore flowers on his clothes and surrounded himself with flowers at his home, just as he surrounded himself with people throughout his life, and both wilted around him. The flowers ultimately wilt on their own (as Sybil's suicide was at her own hand) yet behind that wilting was the hand that plucked them and cut them.

What gets burnt with flame cannot be restored or undone -- much like Basil's bag, and arguably Basil himself. At the end, when Dorian was considering his picture after committing what he considered a good deed (by not ruining some girl's life), and was disappointed that the picture was not restored somewhat, his thoughts turned to Basil, and to confession. No amount of confession would have undone Basil's murder, however -- and I think no amount of atonement would have restored Basil's painting fully while Dorian lived. Flames in lamps and candles followed Dorian throughout the book, as did actions which he could not undo or ever fully atone for, I think.

That's something I took away from the book, and intensely enjoyed about it, at least. :-) (hide spoiler)]

[Anirudh]

@Steven, I am not sure in what way you found it horrible but I've read another short story by him and it was pretty good :)

(view spoiler)[Didn't really give much thought to the flower thing but I suppose you're right. There is no going back on the things Dorian did, the painting only recorded his sins not his good deeds. So probably would never turn back to its original form. (hide spoiler)]

[IShita]

Steven wrote: "Anirudh wrote: "After reading this book how many of you plan to read more books by Wilde?"

I certainly want to. This was the most-enjoyable-and-most-horrible classic book I've read to date, but th..."

Well I think I get it. It is sort of like the Hyde and Jekyll horror where the realization of what a human being is capable of, is scary. That was one thing I enjoyed about the book too :)

[~~Poulomi Sylphrena Tonk$~~]

Has everyone finished it? :|
I'm so late in this.

[Zaara]

~~Poulomi Nymphadora Tonk$~~ wrote: "Has everyone finished it? :|
I'm so late in this."

No Polo...I'm still reading...

[Purvika]

And polo I am still reading as welll.


This thread I mean not gray :P

[Anirudh]

I think one or two are still reading.

[Anirudh]

You people should continue the discussions once you finish :)

[Purvika]

What "you" people... You have read it too.. Say "we" people :P

[Anirudh]

Purvika wrote: "What "you" people... You have read it too.. Say "we" people :P"

We've already discussed at length :) Now it is their turn :)

[Purvika]

Oh I thought you were referring to us who finished excluding you...

*blaming on my fussy brain *

[Anirudh]

Purvika wrote: "Oh I thought you were referring to us who finished excluding you...

*blaming on my fussy brain *"

You can join them once again if you wish :)

[Purvika]

Will lurk though. Would like to see what are their views and thoughts. And if needed then I can post here and there as well.

On a different note ..I had hard time giving it 4 stars. So settled with 3. What made you and others give it four stars. Well apart from the writing style of course. I was very curious to see most detested still gave high rating ?!!

Shiny, you too share why you gave it 5 stars ? Without spoilers of course...we still have people reading here :D

[Purvika]

Oh and @ Ishita I was lurking in your Gray section (not brain but book :p) and found you had liked Harry when you read it...so what changed now.. Did you read it again to form second opinion ?!!

[Ahtims]

I gave 4 stars for the quotes. And for the way the characters were portrayed. Plus it made me think and discuss. Usually I don't discuss the characters much, preferring to go by the author's version of them.

[Purvika]

PSmith wrote: "I gave 4 stars for the quotes. And for the way the characters were portrayed. Plus it made me think and discuss. Usually I don't discuss the characters much, preferring to go by the author's versio..."

Yeah I agree it was one thought provoking story...I recently came across another one..which reminded me of Gray.....

I can't recollect the book but it was based on The myth of Narcissus

do you think one is inspired by other.. ?

[Ahtims]

Gray has a narcissistic element to him. Do let us know if you remember the title. :)

[Purvika]

Oh now I realized...I was one day being my usual self, was googling myths and mythologies and came across this website.... After reading it I was wondering maybe the pictures of Dorian Gray wasn't as original idea.

http://www.greekmyths-greekmythology....

[Anirudh]

Purvika wrote: "Will lurk though. Would like to see what are their views and thoughts. And if needed then I can post here and there as well.

On a different note ..I had hard time giving it 4 stars. So settled wi..."

Who? Me?

[IShita]

@purvika- well, I never said I still don't like him! I mentioned it there as well- I like him as a character but I was still appalled by his sexism! What I liked about him was how dark and twisted and manipulating he is. I wouldn't wish a friend like him on anyone but it'd be super interesting to have an acquaintance like him, for sure! And I specially loved his wit and smart-ass monosyllabic replies. Man is he a skeptic!

[Purvika]

Anirudh wrote: "Purvika wrote: "Will lurk though. Would like to see what are their views and thoughts. And if needed then I can post here and there as well.

On a different note ..I had hard time giving it 4 star..."

All who gave 4-5 stars :)

[Anirudh]

@Purvika, I liked it. The characters and the writing. So gave 4 stars. :)

[Purvika]

Ishita wrote: "@purvika- well, I never said I still don't like him! I mentioned it there as well- I like him as a character but I was still appalled by his sexism! What I liked about him was how dark and twisted ..."

Hahhaa...how hard it is to like someone yet hate him :P

[IShita]

Purvi- on the contrary, I think I like him coz I hated him so. Though I still don't approve of his sexism. That still outrages me :P

[Anirudh]

Ishita wrote: "Purvi- on the contrary, I think I like him coz I hated him so. Though I still don't approve of his sexism. That still outrages me :P"

We're clear on the fact that I was not sexist right? ;):P

[Anirudh]

All this rage talk is making me nervous :D

[IShita]

You did a pretty good job in clearing that out ;)

[Ahtims]

Anirudh wrote: "All this rage talk is making me nervous :D"

you ought to be .
Modern woman power 8)

[Purvika]

Hahahahaaa...this conversation is getting interesting ;)

[~~Poulomi Sylphrena Tonk$~~]

Zaara wrote: "~~Poulomi Nymphadora Tonk$~~ wrote: "Has everyone finished it? :|
I'm so late in this."

No Polo...I'm still reading..."

Hey Zaara! Where are you in the story?
I've been dreadfully slow. Hopefully will resume my pace soon. :)